Confused

loobe1066

I understand CICO and have always believed that to be the basis for any diet whether it be weight watchers, slimming world, atkins or whatever other one people choose.
Recently there as been a lot in the papers about how low fat is now bad for you as it generally means high carb. Now the recommendation is high fat and low carbs. This to me does make some sense.
What I find confusing is if research is now saying high fat lower carbs is better as it reduces risk of diabetes, why is the NHS prescribing Orlistat and encouraging low fat diet. Or can you do low fat and low carb?
I find all the advice confusing and contradictory

yarwell

The current advice is still low fat and hasn't changed. If and when the NHS and others abandon the war on fat you may see some shift but don't hold your breath.

LC LF would be high protein which isn't really anyone's advice. 35% cals from protein is widely seen as an upper limit.

VintageFeline

Orlistat and low fat has been recommended because the wisdom was fat makes you fat and fat is calorie dense therefore cutting it way down makes cutting calories easier.

However, fat is satieting, does not make you fat and is essential to many bodily functions. It is now being recognised that low fat can actually have long term damage.

So just eat a wide and varied diet, if reducing carbs makes compliance easier and keeps you fuller then that's fine. A lot of people on a reduced calorie intake forgo some starchy carbs so they get more satisfaction from their food (I'm on of them) but reintroduce them they have more calories to play with making them easier to fit.

ogtmama

You're going to get as many answers here as there are people, I'm afraid it probably won't do too much to clear it up.

Personally I'd go for a well balanced diet, following the default macros on your account for now until you get to know your body better.

Remember carbs don't have to be sugar, white bread and white potatoes...you should try to get the bulk of your carbs from fruit, veg and whole grains.

Good luck!

JeromeBarry1

Just don't trust the government. You'll be fine.

Whitezombiegirl

Its because obesity in general is a massive health risk, more so than diabetes.

FionaPlum

If you check out Michael Mosley books or interviews the Dr who does the Horizon programs on health, he was complaining about the same thing, that the NHS is still advising diabetics and the overweight to follow low calorie, low fat diets, but there may be changes coming because the next time it's to be revised is 2017. Maybe the NHS will change it's tune shortly.

lorrpb

How about a nutritional appropriate balance of carbs, fat, & protein?! 50c. 20f. 30p

CattOfTheGarage

loobe1066 wrote: »

Recently there as been a lot in the papers..

There's your problem. Stop believing what you read in the papers.

I'm 100% serious. Newspapers are consistently terrible at reporting results of scientific studies. They exaggerate, oversimplify and sometimes just change the meaning of the results to suit the headline they want to print. If you want to know more about this, Google "Bad Science" and read a bit of Ben Goldacre's blog. He's a journalist and a medical doctor, and has a lot to say about routine butchering of scientific information by newspapers, including the one he writes for (the Guardian). If you want to know what a study says, you need to read it, not a newspaper article about it.

So I would be hesitant before concluding the NHS is totally wrong purely on the basis of something you read in a newspaper about new scientific research. Of course the NHS and NICE get things wrong, but they are far more competent at understanding the real implications of the science than a journalist is. They are also at times cautious and slow moving. That can be frustrating, but has advantages too - if you keep changing your advice with every new study, people become uneasy and confused and lose trust.

If they are indeed wrong on this, the evidence will gradually build and the advice will ultimately change. But I'm just not going to buy the line being fed to us by the newspapers, which is that fat is the cure to everything and carbs are now the "bad guy". It sounds like total garbage to me, I'm sorry. My own belief is that the human body can adapt to most diets, that eating too much is a problem REGARDLESS of what you are eating, and that eating your fruit and veg is the one bit of diet advice that never goes out of fashion.

When I saw an NHS dietitian I was not advised to go low fat, just to eat less, and the methods I was given to do this were sound, useful and down to earth. It's not just the reporting of the research that's suspect here, it's also the narrative that the NHS is wedded to low fat and pushes it on everyone. As Ben Goldacre would say, "I think you'll find its a bit more complicated than that".

suzyjane1972

Don't tell me ......you read the fail (daily mail)give it a few days and it'll print some different bollocks

frando

Medical opinion changes frequently, and more often than not takes a while to 'trickle down' to your GP.

CattOfTheGarage

suzyjane1972 wrote: »

Don't tell me ......you read the fail (daily mail)give it a few days and it'll print some different bollocks

Pretty much what I was saying, but you put it more elegantly.

Bob314159

Cause the "experts" change their minds too often to keep track. I now eat high salt, high fat, low carb, lots of whole eggs and I have almost perfect blood levels, am the lowest weight and the fittest in many many years.

Also - there is a mistake in thinking one diet is right for every person. Each if us has to be our own expert doctor.

CICO as presented in these forums as absolute truth is wrong - its only a vague guideline.

Exercise is very important for fitness, but for weight loss for most people - it's not a solution.

frando

Personally I think the big issue is that some diets, ie what people eat rather then a fad five day stupidity in magazines and papers, don't necessarily work for everyone. I eat low carb, and have done since before this became the latest trend, because I'm at a high risk of diabetes and was advised to by my doctor and a nutritionist- I also find that it's easy to do and cheap.

How ever other people have better luck on the more typical higher carb and lower fact variations.

So what I'm trying to say is, do what works for you but getting medical advice is always good

BiggDaddy58

I was pre-diabetic back in January. My Dr told me to lose weight..He didn't say low fat or low carb..he said..reduce your intake and you'll naturally lower your fat and carbs. He also said get active. Do something.

My A1C was 7.4 and I started my own diet and exercise program on March 1st. I went and saw him in April (28th) and my A1C was 5.4

I think (JUST my opinion) Low carb and higher fat and / or Keto to many, has become the new fad diet. By fad, I don't mean it doesn't work for them..just the new IN thing.

I would say, do your own research, learn about your body, consult your Dr. and do whatever works for you.

vingogly

My general practitioner was a low fat guy who worked with a lot of cardio patients like me. It absolutely wasn't working for his patients. He started doing research, and decided to see how his patients did on low carb. He found their cholesterol, blood pressure, lipids all improved so now he recommends lowering carb for weight loss. I have MFP set for 50% carbs, 20% protein, 30% fat and the fats I choose are mostly good fats: nuts, avocados, etc. Having enough fat in my diet, eating complex rather than simple carbs most of the time, minimizing red meat in my diet, and seriously reducing sugar intake seems to be a formula that works for me. But it's all about balance and moderation.

I've never had a problem with cholesterol, even at my heaviest. This suggests to me there's a big genetic component to it. What I've found over the years is that my blood pressure tracks my weight, but seems to be relatively insensitive to sodium intake. Again, I suspect there are people who are more genetically predisposed to react in a bad way to sodium (not that I go overboard with it -- my average Na intake is about 2100mg/day).

Fact is, things constantly change because new research results come out all the time (see Cattofthegarage's last comment), and the media does a horrible job of reporting the latest single study as though it were the final word. One example is egg yolks and shrimp/crab; at one point they were viewed as pure evil. New research suggests dietary cholesterol isn't all that bad. Coffee and tea have gone through similar cycles of approval/disapproval. What's pretty clear is, there are no foods that are pure evil and few of them that are pure good. That's where moderation comes in.

My cardiologist has modified his approach to managing my atrial fibrillation over the years; I appreciate that those giving me care are constantly learning and modify their approach to their patients based on the current medical consensus. That is after all the best one can hope for. My urologist is taking a wait and see approach to my prostate cancer; he commented that he thinks it's best to hold off as long as I can on treatment because I may never need it, and new things and tech were coming out every year. Bear in mind -- if you think your GP is lazy and doesn't keep up to date, there's no reason not to "fire" him/her and find someone who has more enthusiasm for keeping up with the research.

suzyjane1972

It's not as simple as to fire your gp here in the uk.....you're lucky if you can get into a practice and even when you have its practice in many to have to queue to see a gp. If you want food help you need to see if you qualify to be refered for a visit to a dietician.

Lounmoun

loobe1066 wrote: »

I understand CICO and have always believed that to be the basis for any diet whether it be weight watchers, slimming world, atkins or whatever other one people choose.
Recently there as been a lot in the papers about how low fat is now bad for you as it generally means high carb. Now the recommendation is high fat and low carbs. This to me does make some sense.
What I find confusing is if research is now saying high fat lower carbs is better as it reduces risk of diabetes, why is the NHS prescribing Orlistat and encouraging low fat diet. Or can you do low fat and low carb?
I find all the advice confusing and contradictory

I've decided not to worry about what research, governement groups or newspapers say this year or next year. I don't think there is a one size fits all healthy diet but generally getting protein, some fats and eating fruits and vegetables seems pretty basic to well rounded diet.
I'm losing weight by watching my calorie intake. Next I look at protein and try to get enough. I aim to eat several servings of fruits and vegetables. I do not avoid breads or grains. I find that when I hit my calorie goal and protein goal I am naturally a bit below the carb. I tend to eat a bit more fat but I wouldn't call it high fat.
I'd say a moderate carb, moderate fat diet is fine for most people. If you have a specific medical problem you should talk to your own doctor and a registered dietician to find out what might be best with your condition.

loobe1066

Thanks for the replies. Yes I confess I did read the article in the "Daily Mail" but I don't believe all that I read in a paper. My GP is very supportive. The GPs at my practice are supportive they referred me to e excise on prescription last year and this yr they sent me to a weight loss thing run by the local council. Have a one to one weigh in each month. Not too sure how helpful it will be. It is here they are trying to encourage me to take Orlistat so far I have resisted as I feel carbs are my downfall. When I watch them I can lose weight and since I have been logging here I have lost weight.
I do read around the web and understand not all websites can be relied upon to give unbiased advice. Sometimes I think I read too much then think we'll which one is right.
Think I will stick with a varied diet, not too many carbs and see what happens x

CattOfTheGarage

loobe1066 wrote: »

Think I will stick with a varied diet, not too many carbs and see what happens x

Seems like an excellent strategy.

ETA the anti-testimonials I've read on here about Orlistat/Alli would make me run a mile before taking it, personally. I am a firm believer that the best way to lose weight is the slow road, that's the only way you get the knowledge you need to maintain. So many on here who have lost truly inspiring amounts just by tracking food and exercise, with no risk of orange diarrhoea...