Low carb high fat, low fat high carb- what about high fat high carb?

viren19890

Lol,

Just wondering anyone ever try this out? Let's say a person is in deficit but most calories come from carbs or fats.

What is the possible outcome of this?

Also does MFP deduct fiber from Carbs and then display daily carb intake at the bottom or not? For example- My daily carb intake for today is being shown at 63g carbs and fiber is shown at 24g. Now to get actual carbs I'm eating Carbs - Fiber = Net carbs I'm eating? or does the number 63g already represents that?

amusedmonkey

You can't do high fat high carb unless you are going low protein which is not generally recommended. You can however go moderate carb moderate fat and for the same number of calories without factoring personal preferences it would be the same as any other macro distribution if we assume an adequate intake of protein in all cases. In fact I'm doing moderate carb moderate fat moderate protein and doing just fine.

As for your second question, if you are using US entries then the carbs you are seeing are not net carbs. If you are using europe entries then they likely are.

CattOfTheGarage

That's what got me into this mess!

Combining carbs and fat and not much else makes for food which is extremely palatable and not filling at all, which in most people leads to overeating.

Think of all the foods that get blamed for obesity - cake, biscuits/cookies, chips/fries, pizza, anything fried in batter, chocolate, ice cream, pancakes with butter, hash browns, fried bread, loaded mash...

All those wonderful inventions have one thing in common: carbs+fat+very little else. Your proposed macro balance is basically the Western diet at its worst! As well as predisposing you to overeat, it is lacking nutritionally - even if you add fruit and veg, protein is important.

This is one reason I get annoyed when people demonise one particular food group or macro, saying it "causes weight gain". Weight gain is caused by eating too much, and that is not caused by any one food - but it can be made more likely if your diet is unbalanced, with too much of tasty carbs+fat combos and not enough of everything else.

viren19890

CattOfTheGarage wrote: »

That's what got me into this mess!

Combining carbs and fat and not much else makes for food which is extremely palatable and not filling at all, which in most people leads to overeating.

Think of all the foods that get blamed for obesity - cake, biscuits/cookies, chips/fries, pizza, anything fried in batter, chocolate, ice cream, pancakes with butter, hash browns, fried bread, loaded mash...

All those wonderful inventions have one thing in common: carbs+fat+very little else. Your proposed macro balance is basically the Western diet at its worst! As well as predisposing you to overeat, it is lacking nutritionally - even if you add fruit and veg, protein is important.

This is one reason I get annoyed when people demonise one particular food group or macro, saying it "causes weight gain". Weight gain is caused by eating too much, and that is not caused by any one food - but it can be made more likely if your diet is unbalanced, with too much of tasty carbs+fat combos and not enough of everything else.

Don't some people on here talk about how carbs keep them full for longer and then some say about fats and then protein?

If one is in a deficit- one simply cannot or rather shouldn't be able to gain weight because if they do -then it nulls the CICO.

I don't eat like that I was just contemplating a theory lol

viren19890

amusedmonkey wrote: »

You can't do high fat high carb unless you are going low protein which is not generally recommended. You can however go moderate carb moderate fat and for the same number of calories without factoring personal preferences it would be the same as any other macro distribution if we assume an adequate intake of protein in all cases. In fact I'm doing moderate carb moderate fat moderate protein and doing just fine.

As for your second question, if you are using US entries then the carbs you are seeing are not net carbs. If you are using europe entries then they likely are.

Oh thanks. That's good to know -it just came to my mind and wanted to confirm. Based on that I'm still lower than 50g carbs a day.

jgnatca

I treat protein as a minimum. You need that for muscle building and repair. If you decide to fill in the rest with fat and carbs, the body is fine with that.

CattOfTheGarage

viren19890 wrote: »

Don't some people on here talk about how carbs keep them full for longer and then some say about fats and then protein?

If one is in a deficit- one simply cannot or rather shouldn't be able to gain weight because if they do -then it nulls the CICO

I've heard people say various things but never heard anyone say carbs+fat keeps them full without protein being involved. If there is such a person then God speed to them, but I wouldn't recommend the idea to anyone else any more than I would recommend a unicorn as a good transport option.

Of course CICO still applies, but carb/fat combos are so tempting that it makes the CI pretty difficult to control. Of course, not all carbs are equal, and wholemeal bread and butter is much more filling than a slice of cake. But I don't think it's a good foundation for your diet when you're trying to reduce calories.

CorneliusPhoton

Not all carbs are created equal. You could eat a piece of cake and get nailed with 500 calories in one shot. Or, you can eat a large volume of low calorie carbs like spinach to get a fuller feeling. You also get more fiber which takes longer to digest.

stevencloser

CorneliusPhoton wrote: »

Not all carbs are created equal. You could eat a piece of cake and get nailed with 500 calories in one shot. Or, you can eat a large volume of low calorie carbs like spinach to get a fuller feeling. You also get more fiber which takes longer to digest.

Because when I want dessert, I eat pounds of spinach.
Or alternatively eat a piece of cake as lunch.

BinaryFu

viren19890 wrote: »

Don't some people on here talk about how carbs keep them full for longer and then some say about fats and then protein?

If one is in a deficit- one simply cannot or rather shouldn't be able to gain weight because if they do -then it nulls the CICO.

I don't eat like that I was just contemplating a theory lol

Each person falls into a category of sorts.

Moderate everything.
High Fat, low carb, moderate (or minimal for their requirements) protein
High carb, low fat, moderate protein
High protein, low carb, low fat.
On RARE occasions (with a doctor prescribing it, generally) High fat, low protein, low-moderate carbs

For a healthy, albeit overweight person, protein is critical. It helps promote muscle growth and maintenance.

With that being said, yes CICO works perfectly well. If you are in deficit, you can eat 100% fat and lose weight, 100% carbs and lose weight or 100% protein and lose weight. A deficit is a deficit.

However, if you're not getting the required protein (the amount your body needs to sustain its muscle) your body will find a viable source of protein, namely your muscles - and eat them.

This is why unless ordered by a doctor for medical reasons, protein is #1 on the importance scale.

Everything else is personal taste, physical and psychological needs of the individual, etc.

For most people I've met, two things fill them up and satisfy them (when they actually try it) and that's protein and fiber.

Hope this helps clear things up for you.

CorneliusPhoton

stevencloser wrote: »

CorneliusPhoton wrote: »

Not all carbs are created equal. You could eat a piece of cake and get nailed with 500 calories in one shot. Or, you can eat a large volume of low calorie carbs like spinach to get a fuller feeling. You also get more fiber which takes longer to digest.

Because when I want dessert, I eat pounds of spinach.
Or alternatively eat a piece of cake as lunch.

If that's what floats your boat.
The point is that fiber helps keep you satisfied longer.

psuLemon

CorneliusPhoton wrote: »

Not all carbs are created equal. You could eat a piece of cake and get nailed with 500 calories in one shot. Or, you can eat a large volume of low calorie carbs like spinach to get a fuller feeling. You also get more fiber which takes longer to digest.

Most cakes have a ton of calories from fats. I always struggle to understand why people put baked goods in the carbs category when they aren't.

OP, protein and fiber are universally the highest when it comes to satiety. Carbs and fats are highly subjective. I get full from a potato but don't from fats. Lean proteins will make me full a lot faster than non lean proteins.

CattOfTheGarage

I don't classify spinach as carbs. It's mostly water and fibre, like most veg.

(I know fibre is technically carbohydrate, but we can't digest it. If you're a rabbit, spinach is carbs. If you're a human, it's water and fibre and a negligible amount of usable energy)

amusedmonkey

For me personally, I find starches exceptionally filling, with or without fat, but slightly more so with fat. All of my meals need to have a starch, or else I would stay hungry and overeat. A serving of loaded mashed potatoes would keep me full for at least 6 hours because it's higher in moisture than, say, french fries or even worse, potato chips. A pizza is interestingly filling to me although it's not high moisture or volume 2-3 slices and I'm good for a few hours, but it's an anomaly.

Overall my macros usually look like this:
Protein: 80-120 grams
Fat: 30-80 grams
Carbs: 150-250 grams

As you can see, different people do well on different thing so don't sweat it. See where your own preferences lie and tweak from there.

lemurcat12

viren19890 wrote: »

CattOfTheGarage wrote: »

That's what got me into this mess!

Combining carbs and fat and not much else makes for food which is extremely palatable and not filling at all, which in most people leads to overeating.

Think of all the foods that get blamed for obesity - cake, biscuits/cookies, chips/fries, pizza, anything fried in batter, chocolate, ice cream, pancakes with butter, hash browns, fried bread, loaded mash...

All those wonderful inventions have one thing in common: carbs+fat+very little else. Your proposed macro balance is basically the Western diet at its worst! As well as predisposing you to overeat, it is lacking nutritionally - even if you add fruit and veg, protein is important.

This is one reason I get annoyed when people demonise one particular food group or macro, saying it "causes weight gain". Weight gain is caused by eating too much, and that is not caused by any one food - but it can be made more likely if your diet is unbalanced, with too much of tasty carbs+fat combos and not enough of everything else.

Don't some people on here talk about how carbs keep them full for longer and then some say about fats and then protein?

If one is in a deficit- one simply cannot or rather shouldn't be able to gain weight because if they do -then it nulls the CICO.

I don't eat like that I was just contemplating a theory lol

Satiety is pretty individual, yes. On average, protein tends to be more filling than other macros for most, but certainly not for everyone. IME, how filling carbs are really depends on the carbs -- I find higher fiber carbs and potatoes quite filling. I also find that something like pasta along with protein and fat is filling. Most fats I don't find filling (nuts and cheese somewhat). but all this depends.

Anyway, the problem with high fat, high carb, low protein isn't that you can't lose (if truly in a deficit, you will lose) -- it's that for lots of people it would be hard to stick to their calorie goal (especially if they eat lots of low fiber or sugary carbs along with the fat). Beyond that, getting a minimum amount of protein helps preserve muscle. If you don't (depending on how much you have to lose) you could easily lose more muscle and less fat than desired.

lemurcat12

psulemon wrote: »

CorneliusPhoton wrote: »

Not all carbs are created equal. You could eat a piece of cake and get nailed with 500 calories in one shot. Or, you can eat a large volume of low calorie carbs like spinach to get a fuller feeling. You also get more fiber which takes longer to digest.

Most cakes have a ton of calories from fats. I always struggle to understand why people put baked goods in the carbs category when they aren't.

Yeah, this always strikes me as so weird.

DebSozo

psulemon wrote: »

CorneliusPhoton wrote: »

Not all carbs are created equal. You could eat a piece of cake and get nailed with 500 calories in one shot. Or, you can eat a large volume of low calorie carbs like spinach to get a fuller feeling. You also get more fiber which takes longer to digest.

Most cakes have a ton of calories from fats. I always struggle to understand why people put baked goods in the carbs category when they aren't.

OP, protein and fiber are universally the highest when it comes to satiety. Carbs and fats are highly subjective. I get full from a potato but don't from fats. Lean proteins will make me full a lot faster than non lean proteins.

Me also. I find if I keep my protein and fiber up I am much more satisfied and avoid cravings in between meals. This keeps me from going over my daily caloric goal. When I eat a high fat/high carb meal I get hungry soon after.