Plant Based Diets
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Here's a little history: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant-based_diet
The Kaiser Permanente Update for Physicians cited is here: http://www.thepermanentejournal.org/issues/2013/spring/5117-nutrition.html
According to this a normal recommended diet is mostly plant-based (half the plate vegetables, a quarter whole grain or unprocessed starchy food), and a quarter lean protein, so "plant based" would mean something beyond that. I run into it meaning "generally don't eat animal products for health reasons, but not as strict about it as someone doing it for ethical reasons is and occasionally might make exceptions)" to "maybe eat animal products once a week or so" (which I think makes more sense to call mostly plant-based).0 -
i feel like plant based is more appropriate for a diet mostly of plants but consume other foods.... u know based... based on.. not exclusive lol. just say your vegan if u dont consume animal products.2
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »It's a vegan diet without the ethical concerns. Does that help?
I hate that the vegans have stolen the term "plant based diet". I have long called my diet plant based, in that the bulk of my diet comes from plants (but not all). What sense does it make to say that your diet is "based" on plants if plants are all you eat? Plus, they already have a name for their diet. ::grumble::
But it doesn't describe vegans. Vegans have an ethical objection to animal exploitation and suffering. Diet is only a portion of this. People on a plant-based diet are avoiding animal products in the diet for health reasons.
They're two different things. If anything, you should be annoyed with the plant-based dieters for not coming up with a new term to describe how *they* eat.
It's the same diet though, right?
It can be (although in my experience plant-based diet people often layer in additional restrictions of fat or certain types of processed foods), but the importance of the term "vegan" is that it provides a description of an ethical position. The diet stems from the ethical choice, it isn't the central thing.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »But it doesn't describe vegans. Vegans have an ethical objection to animal exploitation and suffering. Diet is only a portion of this. People on a plant-based diet are avoiding animal products in the diet for health reasons.
Vegan by definition simply means no animal products. It has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with motivation or moral objections. Some people go vegan for health, some for morals, some for both. Please just do your research, eat in whatever HEALTHY AND BALANCED way works for you, and let everyone else do their own thing.0 -
Vegan by definition simply means no animal products. It has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with motivation or moral objections. Some people go vegan for health, some for morals, some for both. Please just do your research, eat in whatever HEALTHY AND BALANCED way works for you, and let everyone else do their own thing.
No, that wasn't what the term was coined to mean. I know some people have used it to describe plant-based diets by people who are comfortable with non-food animal exploitation, but the term was created to describe a specific set of ethical concerns.
Me having an (educated) opinion on what the word means doesn't mean I'm not letting anyone else do their own thing. People are still free to use the word however they would like, just like they can use "green" to describe things that are black or "mushrooms" to describe cherry pie. Someone having an opinion that differs from yours doesn't mean you can't live your own life.4 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »It's a vegan diet without the ethical concerns. Does that help?
I hate that the vegans have stolen the term "plant based diet". I have long called my diet plant based, in that the bulk of my diet comes from plants (but not all). What sense does it make to say that your diet is "based" on plants if plants are all you eat? Plus, they already have a name for their diet. ::grumble::
But it doesn't describe vegans. Vegans have an ethical objection to animal exploitation and suffering. Diet is only a portion of this. People on a plant-based diet are avoiding animal products in the diet for health reasons.
They're two different things. If anything, you should be annoyed with the plant-based dieters for not coming up with a new term to describe how *they* eat.
It's the same diet though, right?
It can be (although in my experience plant-based diet people often layer in additional restrictions of fat or certain types of processed foods), but the importance of the term "vegan" is that it provides a description of an ethical position. The diet stems from the ethical choice, it isn't the central thing.
I agree with this whole heartedly. This is not a dietary decision for me but an ethical/spiritual one that happened to have dietary restrictions due to its nature.
The one thing that often drives me the craziest though, is all the magical crap that gets blamed on "attributed to" a vegan diet. It's not magical for health or weight loss, that's all calories, macro, and micronutrition regardless of sources... and a vegan diet isn't suitable for everyone. Arguing over names sounds silly to me, but I can see the value others might see in it... for me, I'd rather talk about the truth of the nutritional concerns raised by eating a vegan diet without proper education as to a body's needs. That's a concerning topic for me that often never gets brought up in the context of the diet.
That and proselytism, but that's a different conversation.
*edited to clarify a statement.1 -
MichPainter wrote: »I stopped eating meat at the end of 2015. The transition to cooking meals was a little difficult at first. Mexican food lends itself to plant based diets - Italian food and stir fries are also easily switched to non-meat meals. The issue I found was that I gained weight, rather than loosing. I was eating far too much pasta and tortillas! It took me a few months and a lot of research, but I have finally gotten into the grove of eating plant based. And it is friggin' delicious! It is crazy how much I have fallen in love with sauteed spinach or roasted beets and carrots.
I make fajitas, but use portobello mushrooms as the "meat". I make lasagna, but use thinly sliced eggplant or zucchini as the "noodle". Learn to cook with spices and learn to love raw food (my favorite lunch is open faced sandwich topped with homemade pesto, avocado, sweet grape tomatoes, and broccoli sprouts). You will get plenty of nutrition on plant based....and even if you aren't doing it full blown right away, you can ease it to it...cut meat out except for special occasions or weekends maybe - or just take the plunge and go all in!
My journey began over a concern for my health, but you will find that the more you look into eating plant based, the deeper issues will effect you - animal agriculture is sickening and if you are on Facebook and start "liking" vegan pages you may just find, like I did, that your health/weight is the least of the issues when it comes to cutting out animal products. Not to mention making the change will create a better world because animal agriculture is not only horrendously cruel to the animals, it is also torturing our planet.
There are plenty of reasons to make the switch - you will no longer be consuming dead meat, you will become healthier, you will help save thousands of animals lives, you will help save the planet. I know I feel better knowing that I'm not ingesting something that died in fear and anguish - because you know putting that *kitten* in your system cannot be good for you!
I can guarantee you that I know a ton of unhealthy vegans. There is nothing wrong with eating meat. In fact, we are omnivores, so we are designed to eat meat and plants.
And I am just here to learn from Bane!!1 -
BecomingBane wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »It's a vegan diet without the ethical concerns. Does that help?
I hate that the vegans have stolen the term "plant based diet". I have long called my diet plant based, in that the bulk of my diet comes from plants (but not all). What sense does it make to say that your diet is "based" on plants if plants are all you eat? Plus, they already have a name for their diet. ::grumble::
But it doesn't describe vegans. Vegans have an ethical objection to animal exploitation and suffering. Diet is only a portion of this. People on a plant-based diet are avoiding animal products in the diet for health reasons.
They're two different things. If anything, you should be annoyed with the plant-based dieters for not coming up with a new term to describe how *they* eat.
It's the same diet though, right?
It can be (although in my experience plant-based diet people often layer in additional restrictions of fat or certain types of processed foods), but the importance of the term "vegan" is that it provides a description of an ethical position. The diet stems from the ethical choice, it isn't the central thing.
I agree with this whole heartedly. This is not a dietary decision for me but an ethical/spiritual one that happened to have dietary restrictions due to its nature.
The one thing that often drives me the craziest though, is all the magical crap that gets blamed on "attributed to" a vegan diet. It's not magical for health or weight loss, that's all calories... and a vegan diet isn't suitable for everyone. Arguing over names sounds silly to me, but I can see the value others might see in it... for me, I'd rather talk about the truth of the nutritional concerns raised by eating a vegan diet without proper education as to a body's needs. That's a concerning topic for me that often never gets brought up in the context of the diet.
That and proselytism, but that's a different conversation.
I do attribute a portion of my good health to my diet, but they're parts of my diet that most people could easily implement without going vegan (things like eating more vegetables). I don't think eliminating foods is the answer for most people regarding their health -- it's more about focusing on getting what you need, which virtually everyone can do while still eating animal products (and if people find nutrient-rich animal products tasty, it may even be easier for them to get what they need while not eliminating things -- if that makes sense).
And yes, there are some people who can't safely eliminate animal products due to their particular situation, I think it's important that we (vegans) not gloss over that. It can be really alienating to have people tell you that your concerns or situation are imaginary and it's important that we not do that.
I can appreciate your point over the silliness of debating a name. I do see the value in having a specific term to describe those who have concerns with animal exploitation. I guess I don't see why it is so important for people on plant-based diets to lay claim to the term "vegan" when they reject what I consider to be the central part of it. Maybe the answer is that they can't yet see the centrality of the ethics to what I do and they consider it an irrelevant part of the term. I need to try to be more understanding.0 -
MichPainter wrote: »There are plenty of reasons to make the switch - you will no longer be consuming dead meat, you will become healthier, you will help save thousands of animals lives, you will help save the planet. I know I feel better knowing that I'm not ingesting something that died in fear and anguish - because you know putting that *kitten* in your system cannot be good for you!
I've been eating animals and animal products for over half a century without developing any disease, syndrome or ailment. All my doctors and all medical tests (and trust me there are a LOT of tests at my age) say I'm healthy. So. how exactly would I be "healthier" than healthy by giving up meat?0 -
These are some great resources for plant based diets:
http://www.pcrm.org/health
http://nutritionfacts.org/topics/plant-based-diets
If you are looking into veganism (as an ethical and environmental issue) check out this site:
http://vegankit.com/why/
I've been vegan for 5 years and I don't fret about my nutrition (besides a B12 spray- but I was deficient in B12 when I was a meat-eater. Meat barely has any B12 anymore either- it comes from bacteria in healthy soil that we are lacking nowadays). Just eating enough and a variety of plant-based foods has given me amazing health benefits. I'm definitely healthier than I was before! My vitamin intake is through the roof- without taking a multi-vitamin! Try it out- you wont regret it!
I started a group on here called 'Happy Herbivores'. Feel free to check out additional resources we have on there!2 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »It's a vegan diet without the ethical concerns. Does that help?
I hate that the vegans have stolen the term "plant based diet". I have long called my diet plant based, in that the bulk of my diet comes from plants (but not all). What sense does it make to say that your diet is "based" on plants if plants are all you eat? Plus, they already have a name for their diet. ::grumble::
But it doesn't describe vegans. Vegans have an ethical objection to animal exploitation and suffering. Diet is only a portion of this. People on a plant-based diet are avoiding animal products in the diet for health reasons.
They're two different things. If anything, you should be annoyed with the plant-based dieters for not coming up with a new term to describe how *they* eat.
It's the same diet though, right?
It can be (although in my experience plant-based diet people often layer in additional restrictions of fat or certain types of processed foods), but the importance of the term "vegan" is that it provides a description of an ethical position. The diet stems from the ethical choice, it isn't the central thing.
Yeah, that's the distinction I see.
Happy Herbivore woman makes that distinction: https://happyherbivore.com/2013/07/what-is-plant-based-diet-difference-from-vegan/
Similarly, most of the people who promote cutting out animal product for health reasons (Campbell, et al.) focus much more on what they define as "healthy eating" (often with other restrictions, like even cutting out plant-based oils like olive oil), and less on ethics, such that some even allow for rare consumption of animal products (although there does seem to be substantial overlap or it's common to gravitate to it being an ethical position too).
Just what I observe, although of course you'd know more.0 -
I think that it lies more in the individuals promoting veganism in pop culture. Many of those individuals tend to focus on dietary and health aspects of the whole thing or promote the diet and health aspects as part of their chosen means of financial gain (think the dreaded banana girl among others).
It's my opinion that, when the pop culture "icons" (for lack of a better term) don't address the ethical roots of the movement, they get lost in what is a common concern for a larger body of people... in this case, health and fitness.
In that sense, people who are dietary vegans but not ethical might simply not know any different due to never having been exposed to that particular aspect of the movement nature or history.
It's an interesting "problem", to say the least... but ultimately of less concern to me than addressing the improper dietary advice which can lead to greater health concerns. Earlier in my vegan existence, I knew many who simply couldn't maintain health and several others who ended up hospitalized for malnutrition due to lack of education.... it's never a good time, so I tend to focus on that aspect of things.
Edited to change a phrase that implied a meaning I didn't intend to express.1 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »It's a vegan diet without the ethical concerns. Does that help?
I hate that the vegans have stolen the term "plant based diet". I have long called my diet plant based, in that the bulk of my diet comes from plants (but not all). What sense does it make to say that your diet is "based" on plants if plants are all you eat? Plus, they already have a name for their diet. ::grumble::
But it doesn't describe vegans. Vegans have an ethical objection to animal exploitation and suffering. Diet is only a portion of this. People on a plant-based diet are avoiding animal products in the diet for health reasons.
They're two different things. If anything, you should be annoyed with the plant-based dieters for not coming up with a new term to describe how *they* eat.
It's the same diet though, right?
It can be (although in my experience plant-based diet people often layer in additional restrictions of fat or certain types of processed foods), but the importance of the term "vegan" is that it provides a description of an ethical position. The diet stems from the ethical choice, it isn't the central thing.
Yeah, that's the distinction I see.
Happy Herbivore woman makes that distinction: https://happyherbivore.com/2013/07/what-is-plant-based-diet-difference-from-vegan/
Similarly, most of the people who promote cutting out animal product for health reasons (Campbell, et al.) focus much more on what they define as "healthy eating" (often with other restrictions, like even cutting out plant-based oils like olive oil), and less on ethics, such that some even allow for rare consumption of animal products (although there does seem to be substantial overlap or it's common to gravitate to it being an ethical position too).
Just what I observe, although of course you'd know more.
IIRC, Campbell doesn't identify as a vegan and his diet does include a small amount of animal products (I think "99%" is the ratio of plant foods he says he consumes). It makes sense because his focus is more on the unhealthfulness of certain foods.
It's why I think it is useful to have different terms. We're talking about two different things. We eat a lot of the same things, but I also eat a lot of the same things that my Paleo friends do.
That said, I do know several people who started out plant-based and then transitioned to veganism (like you said). I think the food is the big hurdle for a lot of people with veganism and once that is "out of the way," it becomes easier to imagine living a vegan life.1 -
There's a difference between a "plant-based diet" and a "whole foods plant-based diet." A plant-based diet is just a mostly vegan diet - one that gets the vast majority of calories from plant foods, and also includes processed plant foods (flour, processed oils, sugar). A whole foods plant-based diet (WFPB) is the one that shows the major health benefits, and it is a diet that gets the vast majority of calories from plant foods (vegetables, fruits, beans, seeds, nuts, whole grains) and in addition, strongly limits processed plant foods (flour products, added oils, added sugars).1
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Dr Greger on NutritionFacts.org is a great science-based resource that presents the facts behind a WFPB diet: nutritionfacts.org/video/food-as-medicine/0
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I will say I am not wanting to go on a plant base diet because of morals. I see both side of the issues with eating meat morally and not. My sister is married to a farmer but he not the type of farmer to abuse his animals. I simply just want to slowly progress to a new way of living especially in my health. My mom died young because of heart disease. My dad doesn't take very good care of himself, my sister is trying to lose weight right now and we have had a long family line of disease. I know eating a certain way doesn't guarantee I wont die of any illness but I feel better when I change my diet. I completely gave up soda, desserts and sweets for this month and I can tell a huge difference. I really want to thank everyone who had been giving me information on the topic.
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robingmurphy wrote: »Dr Greger on NutritionFacts.org is a great science-based resource that presents the facts behind a WFPB diet: nutritionfacts.org/video/food-as-medicine/
I am reading his book right now!
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I generally think of "plant-based" as shorthand for a WFPB diet, which is what the HH woman seems to be saying too.0
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A plant-based diet got my cholesterol under control within weeks (bad cholesterol from 202 to 115 within 4 weeks and now below 100, with good cholesterol essentially unchanged) and got the doc off my back about starting meds. I still eat a bit of fish and an egg once a week, but sometimes forget to, and very, very occasionally eat meat like at Thanksgiving. I try to be as "whole foods" as possible.
Funnily enough my taste buds completely changed - I love spicy foods in a way I never used to. My flavor awareness is much sharper than it used to be as well. I stopped missing meat or cheese after a matter of weeks, and if I accidentally eat cheese I find it quite unpleasant, which is almost surreal.
I do find it easier to control my weight. It's still a struggle, but slightly less of one than it used to be. I still crave sweet stuff occasionally.
I agree you need to plan things, but mainly only while you're transitioning and getting used to preparing your meals in a new way. I took vitamin D anyway, and take B12 once a week. Iron and calcium can be problematic for some, but it's actually quite easy if you do a bit of research. Protein isn't an issue, unless you're consuming more than the RDA.
I did it purely for health reasons, but it's hard to ignore the positive impact on the environment or other animals.2 -
I created a space to discuss the differences if anyone is interested.
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10413775/difference-between-plant-based-diets-and-veganism/p1?new=1
Just thought I'd try to stop the derail that I helped start.4
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