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Should junk food be taxed?
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svetskisampion wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »svetskisampion wrote: »Perhaps this video can clear up much better what it is about sugar I am saying - it is roughly 90mins long but it's worth a watch.
https://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM
Why don't you just answer the questions people have asked you directly to clarify your position, instead of continuing to post links to fear mongering articles and videos created by other?
I've answered every question posed to me, and in doing so people have responded with where I am getting such a line thought, including yourself. This has ranged from what tax has done to deter purchases in the uk, what ready meals contain sugar, where the term hidden sugar was coined and for what.
I get it - what doesn't suit your line of thinking is nonsense, and difficult to comprehend. End of discussion.
No, both @lemurcat12 and I have asked you questions like:
Do YOU think that the 5% of added sugars from savory foods that is reported to be consumed in the UK really contributes to people overeating in general?
You described a scenario where people were either eating a chocolate bar, or a ready meal. Do you think there are a lot of people who eat chocolates in place of dinner? And if they eat a ready meal and aren't satiated, do you think there are a lot who would go straight to sweets instead of, say, eating some cheese or nuts or a slice of peanut butter toast or hummus to help fill them up?
Do you think the examples shown in the articles and videos you've linked are logical and representative of actual behaviors and the choices available, or does it bother you at all that the examples used are all from things that would naturally be sweeter, things like sweet and sour chicken, mango chicken, etc. you don't think that's a bit of cherry picking going on?
I also asked, back to the original topic, do you think ready meals qualify as junk food and should have extra taxes in order to deter people from eating them?
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svetskisampion wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »svetskisampion wrote: »Perhaps this video can clear up much better what it is about sugar I am saying - it is roughly 90mins long but it's worth a watch.
https://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM
Why don't you just answer the questions people have asked you directly to clarify your position, instead of continuing to post links to fear mongering articles and videos created by other?
I've answered every question posed to me, and in doing so people have responded with where I am getting such a line thought, including yourself. This has ranged from what tax has done to deter purchases in the uk, what ready meals contain sugar, where the term hidden sugar was coined and for what.
I get it - what doesn't suit your line of thinking is nonsense, and difficult to comprehend. End of discussion.
No, you have not.
In addition to what Winogelato noted, above, I specifically asked you:lemurcat12 wrote: »To cut to the chase, however, I will see where we are actually disagreeing here, as I admit I'm confuse[d] as to the point you are trying to make:
I believe that a poor diet is a risk factor/tends to lead to poorer health (along with many other things) and that a good diet tends to lead to better health (all else equal) or at least helps with some risks, although with many others it is irrelevant.
I think that some added sugar (and a variety of foods naturally high in sugar, like dairy and fruit and arguably vegetables, depending on how we are defining this) is compatible with a good diet, but that excessive added sugar is not (that's what excessive means -- too much).
I think that a diet high in added sugar is one thing (not the only thing) that tends to lead to overconsumption of calories.
I think focusing on just sugar is wrong and odd, given especially that in many cases high sugar goes along with other sources of calories (like high fat) and that many other foods that are commonly overeaten lack sugar.
Where do we disagree?1 -
Packerjohn wrote: »ent3rsandman wrote: »On top of that, junk food has helped many "hardgainers" that have the opposite problem. No need to take away their vice because our culture just happens to put hyperpalatable foods on a pedestal.
And how many hard gainers are there out there as opposed to people that are overweight or obese (the correct answer is very few)? For true hardgainers there are many calorie dense foods that are also nutritious.
Does it matter? That's like saying we don't need to worry about anorexia right now because a bigger margin of people can't put down their forks for more than 5 seconds. For the record though, there are quite a lot. Any bodybuilding/powerlifting forum is going to be full of them (i.e. not this one).
And not everyone wants to stuff themselves with almonds and olive oil to reach their calories. The hardgainers I know can barely stomach mass quantities of the food they LIKE. Please, let's be considerate of everyone.2 -
A 2lt bottle of Coke.....$0.99 with a 10% sugar tax $1.10......block of chocolate $2.50 with tax $2.75 I don't think it's going to make a difference!!! A kg of apples about 5-6 apples $5, a rock melon $4.90 each.....How about we have a fresh food subsidy? I can feed my kids on junk after school for under $5 and it would last a couple of days...But fresh fruit would cost me $10 a day easy!!!.....thats our problem!! Farmers are going broke cause they get paid next to nothing then massive markups by the time it gets to supermarket!!! And Massive companies making huge $$$ out of crap food that cost nothing to make and they can sell at tiny prices!!!1
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summerkissed wrote: »A 2lt bottle of Coke.....$0.99 with a 10% sugar tax $1.10......block of chocolate $2.50 with tax $2.75 I don't think it's going to make a difference!!! A kg of apples about 5-6 apples $5, a rock melon $4.90 each.....How about we have a fresh food subsidy? I can feed my kids on junk after school for under $5 and it would last a couple of days...But fresh fruit would cost me $10 a day easy!!!.....thats our problem!! Farmers are going broke cause they get paid next to nothing then massive markups by the time it gets to supermarket!!! And Massive companies making huge $$$ out of crap food that cost nothing to make and they can sell at tiny prices!!!
How about making a soda tax $.02-$0.03 per ounce. The 64 oz Bladder Buster that was $.79 is now around $2.50. Might have some impact1 -
Packerjohn wrote: »summerkissed wrote: »A 2lt bottle of Coke.....$0.99 with a 10% sugar tax $1.10......block of chocolate $2.50 with tax $2.75 I don't think it's going to make a difference!!! A kg of apples about 5-6 apples $5, a rock melon $4.90 each.....How about we have a fresh food subsidy? I can feed my kids on junk after school for under $5 and it would last a couple of days...But fresh fruit would cost me $10 a day easy!!!.....thats our problem!! Farmers are going broke cause they get paid next to nothing then massive markups by the time it gets to supermarket!!! And Massive companies making huge $$$ out of crap food that cost nothing to make and they can sell at tiny prices!!!
How about making a soda tax $.02-$0.03 per ounce. The 64 oz Bladder Buster that was $.79 is now around $2.50. Might have some impact
Problem is our supermarkets will still have a soft drink special at 1/2 price.......perhaps we need to stop the big supermarkets from putting these items on special????0 -
summerkissed wrote: »A 2lt bottle of Coke.....$0.99 with a 10% sugar tax $1.10......block of chocolate $2.50 with tax $2.75 I don't think it's going to make a difference!!! A kg of apples about 5-6 apples $5, a rock melon $4.90 each.....How about we have a fresh food subsidy? I can feed my kids on junk after school for under $5 and it would last a couple of days...But fresh fruit would cost me $10 a day easy!!!.....thats our problem!! Farmers are going broke cause they get paid next to nothing then massive markups by the time it gets to supermarket!!! And Massive companies making huge $$$ out of crap food that cost nothing to make and they can sell at tiny prices!!!
Are you in the US? Where I live, I could swing after-school snacks of apples, bananas, or oranges for a couple of kids (not sure how many you have) for much less than $10 a day.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »summerkissed wrote: »A 2lt bottle of Coke.....$0.99 with a 10% sugar tax $1.10......block of chocolate $2.50 with tax $2.75 I don't think it's going to make a difference!!! A kg of apples about 5-6 apples $5, a rock melon $4.90 each.....How about we have a fresh food subsidy? I can feed my kids on junk after school for under $5 and it would last a couple of days...But fresh fruit would cost me $10 a day easy!!!.....thats our problem!! Farmers are going broke cause they get paid next to nothing then massive markups by the time it gets to supermarket!!! And Massive companies making huge $$$ out of crap food that cost nothing to make and they can sell at tiny prices!!!
Are you in the US? Where I live, I could swing after-school snacks of apples, bananas, or oranges for a couple of kids (not sure how many you have) for much less than $10 a day.
I live in Australia....Tasmania to be exact.
Yesterday I brought apples $6kg, Bananas $4kg a rock melon $3.90 a pineapple $5 and a honeydew melon $5.90....i don't put a price on my families health so I buy it! But when I walked into the supermarket at the front was a stand of half price chocolate blocks $2.20each and big bags of chips $1.20 each 30 can blocks of Coke $9 so for the same amount of money I spent on fruit I could have got 30 cans cordial 3 blocks of chocolate and 4 bags of chips.....see now that is the problem!!!!
I have 1 banana left a couple of apples and the rest was eaten...2 growing kids aged 10 and 13!
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summerkissed wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »summerkissed wrote: »A 2lt bottle of Coke.....$0.99 with a 10% sugar tax $1.10......block of chocolate $2.50 with tax $2.75 I don't think it's going to make a difference!!! A kg of apples about 5-6 apples $5, a rock melon $4.90 each.....How about we have a fresh food subsidy? I can feed my kids on junk after school for under $5 and it would last a couple of days...But fresh fruit would cost me $10 a day easy!!!.....thats our problem!! Farmers are going broke cause they get paid next to nothing then massive markups by the time it gets to supermarket!!! And Massive companies making huge $$$ out of crap food that cost nothing to make and they can sell at tiny prices!!!
Are you in the US? Where I live, I could swing after-school snacks of apples, bananas, or oranges for a couple of kids (not sure how many you have) for much less than $10 a day.
I live in Australia....Tasmania to be exact.
Yesterday I brought apples $6kg, Bananas $4kg a rock melon $3.90 a pineapple $5 and a honeydew melon $5.90....i don't put a price on my families health so I buy it! But when I walked into the supermarket at the front was a stand of half price chocolate blocks $2.20each and big bags of chips $1.20 each 30 can blocks of Coke $9 so for the same amount of money I spent on fruit I could have got 30 cans cordial 3 blocks of chocolate and 4 bags of chips.....see now that is the problem!!!!
I have 1 banana left a couple of apples and the rest was eaten...2 growing kids aged 10 and 13!
Neither the chocolate nor the bags of chips are a kilo each though.1 -
Fruit and chips are not really substitutes for each other (at least not nutritionally), so the price of chips should not affect the affordability of fruit. I never understand this idea that you can buy chips cheaper than fruit so that's a problem. The only question is whether the fruit is affordable (fruit and veg are quite inexpensive where I live unless you go out of your way to buy the most expensive things, and for that matter plain potatoes are cheaper for the same volume than chips.) That chips may be super cheap only means if you want them too they aren't hard to afford. It's not stopping you from buying fruit. It doesn't make fruit itself more expensive.3
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I believe the thinking about the price of fruit and chips is that they can both be snacks or sides to a sandwich. If you're limited on funds, then you may only be able to choose one snack item and the chips are cheaper. I'll admit I'm faced with that choice often. Although bananas are usually pretty cheap, chips are a much cheaper option than oranges or grapes, even apples unless they're on sale. If the fruits were cheaper, it would be easier to choose them instead of chips. But if the chips have a tax to increase the price, then it may be that neither fruit or chips will be purchased.1
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mrsharmon622 wrote: »I believe the thinking about the price of fruit and chips is that they can both be snacks or sides to a sandwich. If you're limited on funds, then you may only be able to choose one snack item and the chips are cheaper. I'll admit I'm faced with that choice often. Although bananas are usually pretty cheap, chips are a much cheaper option than oranges or grapes, even apples unless they're on sale. If the fruits were cheaper, it would be easier to choose them instead of chips. But if the chips have a tax to increase the price, then it may be that neither fruit or chips will be purchased.
Exactly!!!
We can buy fries in the freezer section for $1.89 kg fresh spuds are $6kg.....
But the average person that's not thinking of nutrition or health or is short on money walks into the supermarket....thinks of something for kids to snack on buys a block of chocolate, bag of chips and bottle of soft drink....under $5
I walk into supermarket after school snack ....fruit platter and some cheese sticks......250gm punnet strawberries $2.50 a melon $3.90 couple of apples $2.
I think we need to think from the average person. Not comparing price per kg of a bag of chips to a kg of spuds
Make the fruit and veg cheaper. We don't pay tax on fresh fruit and veg, but the mark up from the farmer to the supermarkets is massive!!!! We already pay a 10% gst on other foods yet it's so so cheap!!! Something needs to be done about the supermarkets and there pricing structures!!0 -
But you know the chips are not nutritionally the equivalent of fruit (or veg, or whatever) and the chips being extra cheap doesn't make fruit more expensive. Complaining that chips are too cheap makes no sense. The fruit is the same price, regardless. Seems more honest to admit you are buying chips because you want chips.
And IME potatoes and dried beans are cheaper than any chips, anyway. At least by volume.2 -
summerkissed wrote: »mrsharmon622 wrote: »I believe the thinking about the price of fruit and chips is that they can both be snacks or sides to a sandwich. If you're limited on funds, then you may only be able to choose one snack item and the chips are cheaper. I'll admit I'm faced with that choice often. Although bananas are usually pretty cheap, chips are a much cheaper option than oranges or grapes, even apples unless they're on sale. If the fruits were cheaper, it would be easier to choose them instead of chips. But if the chips have a tax to increase the price, then it may be that neither fruit or chips will be purchased.
Exactly!!!
We can buy fries in the freezer section for $1.89 kg fresh spuds are $6kg.....
But the average person that's not thinking of nutrition or health or is short on money walks into the supermarket....thinks of something for kids to snack on buys a block of chocolate, bag of chips and bottle of soft drink....under $5
I walk into supermarket after school snack ....fruit platter and some cheese sticks......250gm punnet strawberries $2.50 a melon $3.90 couple of apples $2.
I think we need to think from the average person. Not comparing price per kg of a bag of chips to a kg of spuds
Make the fruit and veg cheaper. We don't pay tax on fresh fruit and veg, but the mark up from the farmer to the supermarkets is massive!!!! We already pay a 10% gst on other foods yet it's so so cheap!!! Something needs to be done about the supermarkets and there pricing structures!!
6 dollars for a kilo of potatoes? Where do you live? Do you need to import them or what? Even organic potatoes are cheaper than your fries over here.0 -
The cost of defining and legislating what exactly counts as "junk food" would be far better spent on health services in general.1
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stevencloser wrote: »summerkissed wrote: »mrsharmon622 wrote: »I believe the thinking about the price of fruit and chips is that they can both be snacks or sides to a sandwich. If you're limited on funds, then you may only be able to choose one snack item and the chips are cheaper. I'll admit I'm faced with that choice often. Although bananas are usually pretty cheap, chips are a much cheaper option than oranges or grapes, even apples unless they're on sale. If the fruits were cheaper, it would be easier to choose them instead of chips. But if the chips have a tax to increase the price, then it may be that neither fruit or chips will be purchased.
Exactly!!!
We can buy fries in the freezer section for $1.89 kg fresh spuds are $6kg.....
But the average person that's not thinking of nutrition or health or is short on money walks into the supermarket....thinks of something for kids to snack on buys a block of chocolate, bag of chips and bottle of soft drink....under $5
I walk into supermarket after school snack ....fruit platter and some cheese sticks......250gm punnet strawberries $2.50 a melon $3.90 couple of apples $2.
I think we need to think from the average person. Not comparing price per kg of a bag of chips to a kg of spuds
Make the fruit and veg cheaper. We don't pay tax on fresh fruit and veg, but the mark up from the farmer to the supermarkets is massive!!!! We already pay a 10% gst on other foods yet it's so so cheap!!! Something needs to be done about the supermarkets and there pricing structures!!
6 dollars for a kilo of potatoes? Where do you live? Do you need to import them or what? Even organic potatoes are cheaper than your fries over here.
I didn't even notice that. Here, NOT shopping around for best price (I'm sure I could get both for less with minimum work or going to a discount store like Costco or Walmart vs. my mainstream grocery or just finding a special), I can get a 3 lb bag for about $2.50-$3, and a 3 lb bag of apples for the same price.1 -
summerkissed wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »summerkissed wrote: »A 2lt bottle of Coke.....$0.99 with a 10% sugar tax $1.10......block of chocolate $2.50 with tax $2.75 I don't think it's going to make a difference!!! A kg of apples about 5-6 apples $5, a rock melon $4.90 each.....How about we have a fresh food subsidy? I can feed my kids on junk after school for under $5 and it would last a couple of days...But fresh fruit would cost me $10 a day easy!!!.....thats our problem!! Farmers are going broke cause they get paid next to nothing then massive markups by the time it gets to supermarket!!! And Massive companies making huge $$$ out of crap food that cost nothing to make and they can sell at tiny prices!!!
Are you in the US? Where I live, I could swing after-school snacks of apples, bananas, or oranges for a couple of kids (not sure how many you have) for much less than $10 a day.
I live in Australia....Tasmania to be exact.
Yesterday I brought apples $6kg, Bananas $4kg a rock melon $3.90 a pineapple $5 and a honeydew melon $5.90....i don't put a price on my families health so I buy it! But when I walked into the supermarket at the front was a stand of half price chocolate blocks $2.20each and big bags of chips $1.20 each 30 can blocks of Coke $9 so for the same amount of money I spent on fruit I could have got 30 cans cordial 3 blocks of chocolate and 4 bags of chips.....see now that is the problem!!!!
I have 1 banana left a couple of apples and the rest was eaten...2 growing kids aged 10 and 13!
Thanks for clarifying. Things like pineapple and melon (at least off-season) are pricier here in the US too. When people are looking for fruit for children (especially children who eat a lot), they're usually choosing things like apples and bananas and often supplementing them with things like peanut butter or affordable vegetables like carrots or broccoli. Eating kilograms of fresh fruit per day can be really expensive.1 -
To add on to janejellyroll's post (and my own prior):
Eating fresh fruit off season is expensive, but remember in the past it simply was not possible.
Eating frozen fruit off season is much cheaper and probably much more available than in the past.
Produce is not more expensive for the average person than in the past, in fact, in terms of percentage of income it's much cheaper (I'm sure for those who would have been on a farm this would be different). Food as a whole is cheaper, at least in the US and many other places, in real terms than ever before, especially things like meat, eggs, cheese, and more available (year-round produce, varieties of produce, so on). The staples (what many more people would have lived on in the past) like dried beans, basic starches (rice, flour, other grains) are as cheap as ever. So when people claim the reason people can't eat healthfully is cost, that's just not so. What people expect in terms of time is different, and they also have many more other options that are also cheaply available, but it is again important to note that having more options is not a bad thing and does not take away options from you. That flour is cheap and you may eschew flour or cuts of meat you don't want cheap or even preprepared meals cheap (although in my supermarket they seem far more expensive compared to cooking for one's self) or various snack items cheap does not make other food items more expensive.
In other words, if you want to buy fruits and veg saying junk food is too cheap/making it more expensive does nothing to make fruits and veg cheaper.3 -
Here in europe frozen fruit is verrry expensive. Fortunately all seasons in mainland europe have fruitsthat are in season and it will be less expensive than anything frozen. I'm surprized at how junk food ( definitions: chips, bags of cookies and baked goods, relatively a new thing here) have really taken off in the last few years!
There are still lots of pastry shops though and they do thriving business. Can't imagine these governments; Spain, Italy, france taxing 'junk' though. Would require too much organization I would think.0 -
Sirprized this thread is still going! amazing0
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