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Vegan
Replies
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janejellyroll wrote: »I've been vegan for ten years and I'm very pro-vegan. B12 supplementation (or eating fortified foods) is required for vegans, as there are no plant sources of B12.
Being a "real vegan" (whatever that means) won't magically create B12 in plant foods. It's totally possible to be happy and healthy as a vegan, but it's also important that we stay grounded in reality.
@janejellyroll -
What all do you supplement your vegan diet with? Any timing issues?
(I was listening to a Loren Cordain lecture just yesterday, and he rattled off half a dozen examples of nutrients vegans are likely to be deficient in. Now I'm curious how reality-based vegans handle this.)
Thx.
I supplement B12 and iodine three times a week (the iodine because I use sea salt at home). I take Vitamin D, iron, and a vegan DHA daily. The D is because I don't get a ton of sun, the iron I took even as a non-vegan because I am a runner and regular blood donor, and the vegan DHA is because the best information available to us is still unclear on how well our bodies convert ALA into DHA. I get plenty of ALA, but I figure I might as well cover my bases. I don't pay a lot of attention to supplement timing -- I take my vitamins in the AM with breakfast and just make sure to wait about an hour to drink my coffee (for the iron absorption).
For all vegans who can, I recommend getting blood tests to understand what, if anything, they might want to supplement in addition to B12. For vegans who don't want to do this or can't do this, "Vegan for Life" by Jack Norris and Virginia Messina is a great guide to what supplements vegans might want to look into (both authors are science-based vegans and both are RDs). Jack Norris also maintains the veganhealth.org website, which is a great source of information on vegan nutritional needs.
I also track my food on a website that offers a breakdown of micro-nutrients as well as macro-nutrients. I find that I'm regularly meeting or exceeding needs for everything but the stuff that is listed above (except for the iron, which I do meet through food, but supplement due to the reasons listed above and the fact that my annual blood tests show that I'm at a healthy level with my diet plus supplements). My blood is checked for B12, D, and iron each year and I've never had a blood test showing low levels so I'm happy with my current level of supplementation.
I agree there are some deficiencies that vegans should pay special attention to -- you will find science-based vegan nutritional authorities agree. But with attention to these, I don't think we're any more likely than a non-vegan to be deficient in these. In my anecdotal experience, the vegans who tend to struggle with deficiencies are either trying to avoid supplements and fortified foods or are layering additional restrictions on top of their veganism (like going very low fat or raw).
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Thanks - much appreciated.0
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BillMcKay1 wrote: »jeebieheebies wrote: »-- This is kind of vain, but also because vegans have a reputation of being skinny, I feel more of a social pressure to lose weight. Additionally, since I really really support the cause, I feel that if I want to be the best "ambassador" I can be, I should look my best, because that will reflect well on the lifestyle.
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That may be the reputation, but the reality is vegans are no skinnier than meat eaters if they don't watch their caloric intake. I know so pretty hefty vegans. There are 165 calories in 100g of skinless chicken breast. There are 553 calories in 100g of cashews....
It absolutely does come down to CICO and there are vegans of all sizes. But on a wider population level, I've seen some studies that show that vegans and vegetarians tend to have lower BMIs than non-vegans/vegetarians. This doesn't mean any individual is going to lose weight by cutting meat and/or animal products from their diet.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »BillMcKay1 wrote: »jeebieheebies wrote: »-- This is kind of vain, but also because vegans have a reputation of being skinny, I feel more of a social pressure to lose weight. Additionally, since I really really support the cause, I feel that if I want to be the best "ambassador" I can be, I should look my best, because that will reflect well on the lifestyle.
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That may be the reputation, but the reality is vegans are no skinnier than meat eaters if they don't watch their caloric intake. I know so pretty hefty vegans. There are 165 calories in 100g of skinless chicken breast. There are 553 calories in 100g of cashews....
It absolutely does come down to CICO and there are vegans of all sizes. But on a wider population level, I've seen some studies that show that vegans and vegetarians tend to have lower BMIs than non-vegans/vegetarians. This doesn't mean any individual is going to lose weight by cutting meat and/or animal products from their diet.
But more vegans/vegetarians lead an overall healthy lifestyle and pay attention energy intake. That could skew the numbers I assume.
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Personally, I became a vegetarian after my physician saw my cholesterol levels and took my BP. Over a decade I slowly moving into a vegan diet. I have been vegan for a year and my blood panels look amazing. My physicians and nutritionist support the decision, as I would need to be on medication otherwise.0
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Like any diet, vegan diets can be healthy or unhealthy. I'm a prime example of the latter.
I think that since many vegans are highly focused on their overall health and wellness, they may be in great health. But I'm sure the same could be said of LCHF dieters, proponents of the paleo diet, keto, etc.
I feel that I'm in good health, especially as someone who used to be class II obese. I don't eat the most well-balanced diet, of course - I'm not perfect, and that's okay. I sorta cheat and take a women's chewable multivitamin everyday. My understanding, based on the vitamin content provided on the label, is that this more than covers any B-complex deficiencies.
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janejellyroll wrote: »BillMcKay1 wrote: »jeebieheebies wrote: »-- This is kind of vain, but also because vegans have a reputation of being skinny, I feel more of a social pressure to lose weight. Additionally, since I really really support the cause, I feel that if I want to be the best "ambassador" I can be, I should look my best, because that will reflect well on the lifestyle.
--
That may be the reputation, but the reality is vegans are no skinnier than meat eaters if they don't watch their caloric intake. I know so pretty hefty vegans. There are 165 calories in 100g of skinless chicken breast. There are 553 calories in 100g of cashews....
It absolutely does come down to CICO and there are vegans of all sizes. But on a wider population level, I've seen some studies that show that vegans and vegetarians tend to have lower BMIs than non-vegans/vegetarians. This doesn't mean any individual is going to lose weight by cutting meat and/or animal products from their diet.
But more vegans/vegetarians lead an overall healthy lifestyle and pay attention energy intake. That could skew the numbers I assume.
Oh, absolutely. Which is why I would ignore those population-type numbers for any sort of individual situation. There are too many factors to know for sure what is going on.1 -
Wicked_Seraph wrote: »Like any diet, vegan diets can be healthy or unhealthy. I'm a prime example of the latter.
I think that since many vegans are highly focused on their overall health and wellness, they may be in great health. But I'm sure the same could be said of LCHF dieters, proponents of the paleo diet, keto, etc.
I feel that I'm in good health, especially as someone who used to be class II obese. I don't eat the most well-balanced diet, of course - I'm not perfect, and that's okay. I sorta cheat and take a women's chewable multivitamin everyday. My understanding, based on the vitamin content provided on the label, is that this more than covers any B-complex deficiencies.
Why is that a cheat?1 -
graceyscholl wrote: »Veganism is by far healthier. How many vegans are found in hospitals? How many vegans have heart disease? Cancer? Etc.
In addition to physical health, veganism improved health in a stretch by ridding guilt of murder and torture.
Murder and torture....
One day you might grow up - and live forever, as I suppose vegans don't die either? 2 -
janejellyroll wrote: »I supplement B12 and iodine three times a week (the iodine because I use sea salt at home). I take Vitamin D, iron, and a vegan DHA daily. The D is because I don't get a ton of sun, the iron I took even as a non-vegan because I am a runner and regular blood donor, and the vegan DHA is because the best information available to us is still unclear on how well our bodies convert ALA into DHA. I get plenty of ALA, but I figure I might as well cover my bases. I don't pay a lot of attention to supplement timing -- I take my vitamins in the AM with breakfast and just make sure to wait about an hour to drink my coffee (for the iron absorption).
How about Vitamin K2 and magnesium?
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angelinareean wrote: »Does being vegan really help your health? What are your thoughts?
If you are asking a general question then it depends greatly on the individuals health to begin with and how balanced their diet will be after going vegan.
If you are asking me personally, I'd have to say no because I'm already healthy without eating a vegan diet. I'm not sure I can get healthier than healthy.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »I supplement B12 and iodine three times a week (the iodine because I use sea salt at home). I take Vitamin D, iron, and a vegan DHA daily. The D is because I don't get a ton of sun, the iron I took even as a non-vegan because I am a runner and regular blood donor, and the vegan DHA is because the best information available to us is still unclear on how well our bodies convert ALA into DHA. I get plenty of ALA, but I figure I might as well cover my bases. I don't pay a lot of attention to supplement timing -- I take my vitamins in the AM with breakfast and just make sure to wait about an hour to drink my coffee (for the iron absorption).
How about Vitamin K2 and magnesium?
I have confidence in current scientific consensus that Vitamin K needs can be met by K1 or K2. I get plenty of K1 and it's likely that my native gut bacteria also produce K2 that is absorbed by my small intestine. I am routinely well over the RDA for magnesium according to my nutritional tracking (at 113% for the past seven days, for example).
Here is some more information on K2 if you are interested: http://www.veganhealth.org/articles/vitamink
I am not aware of any studies of long-term vegans indicating problems related to K2 consumption, but if you are referring to specific studies I would be happy to take a look.2 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Wicked_Seraph wrote: »Like any diet, vegan diets can be healthy or unhealthy. I'm a prime example of the latter.
I think that since many vegans are highly focused on their overall health and wellness, they may be in great health. But I'm sure the same could be said of LCHF dieters, proponents of the paleo diet, keto, etc.
I feel that I'm in good health, especially as someone who used to be class II obese. I don't eat the most well-balanced diet, of course - I'm not perfect, and that's okay. I sorta cheat and take a women's chewable multivitamin everyday. My understanding, based on the vitamin content provided on the label, is that this more than covers any B-complex deficiencies.
Why is that a cheat?
Much of what I see emphasizes getting most/all your vitamins through one's diet. I know for a fact that I do not. "Cheat" isn't exactly the right word to use, I admit, but I was being a bit facetious
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Wicked_Seraph wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Wicked_Seraph wrote: »Like any diet, vegan diets can be healthy or unhealthy. I'm a prime example of the latter.
I think that since many vegans are highly focused on their overall health and wellness, they may be in great health. But I'm sure the same could be said of LCHF dieters, proponents of the paleo diet, keto, etc.
I feel that I'm in good health, especially as someone who used to be class II obese. I don't eat the most well-balanced diet, of course - I'm not perfect, and that's okay. I sorta cheat and take a women's chewable multivitamin everyday. My understanding, based on the vitamin content provided on the label, is that this more than covers any B-complex deficiencies.
Why is that a cheat?
Much of what I see emphasizes getting most/all your vitamins through one's diet. I know for a fact that I do not. "Cheat" isn't exactly the right word to use, I admit, but I was being a bit facetious
I've been vegan for ten years and I know tons of vegans. I don't know anyone who would consider taking a vitamin to be cheating (I'm sure they're out there, but just not in the circles I move in). In fact, some of the vegans I respect most are vocal advocates for ensuring you meet your nutritional needs -- whether it's through "regular food," fortified food, or supplements -- to ensure you remain healthy. An unnecessarily sick vegan doesn't help a single animal. I say, good for you for understanding what you need to stay a healthy thriving vegan and making it happen! 3 -
Depends, I'm ''lucky'' enough to live in a place that I can find anything in vegan substitute. If your diet consists on vegan junk and take away no benefit. If you live in a place with fewer choices you learn how to cook your own food your own desserts and your junk options are limited. As your options are restricted you start to experiment with more vegetables and fruits that you wouldn't try in the past. Another trick is that you suddenly care for your protein and vitamins intake. Most of the non vegan people they don't seem to worry about. When my diet was based on soy processed stuff and ''protein'' bars I was sick. When I tried to eat 70% natural and 30% processed I haven't been sick plus I'm slightly muscular, close to underweight and eating all day foods that I enjoy Is all up to your attitude and find a balance. 1
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I do a mostly plant based diet. (You may call it vegan) I do this because it is healthy and the only way for me to get these markers down and back to normal healthy levels. I keep my cholesterol under 200 mg and saturated fat under 11 g a day. I read this will help.
But I also choose healthy foods, I could be vegan and choose alot of unhealthy processed foods which wouldn't help my goals. I also have to count calories to lose weight.
Known as Metabolic syndrome:- Large waist circumference — a waistline that measures at least 35 inches (89 centimeters) for women and 40 inches (102 centimeters) for men
- High triglyceride level — 150 milligrams per deciliter,(mg/dL), or 1.7 millimoles per liter (mmol/L), or higher of this type of fat found in blood
- Reduced high-density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol — less than 40 mg/dL (1.04 mmol/L) in men or less than 50 mg/dL (1.3 mmol/L) in women of this "good" cholesterol
- Increased blood pressure — 130/85 millimeters of mercury (mm Hg) or higher
- Elevated fasting blood sugar — 100 mg/dL (5.6 mmol/L) or higher
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I do a mostly plant based diet. (You may call it vegan) I do this because it is healthy and the only way for me to get these markers down and back to normal healthy levels. I keep my cholesterol under 200 mg and saturated fat under 11 g a day. I read this will help.
But I also choose healthy foods, I could be vegan and choose alot of unhealthy processed foods which wouldn't help my goals. I also have to count calories to lose weight.
I think if you look around for recent studies (as opposed to the ice-age advice to minimize your fat intake found in thousands of publications from the American Diabetes Association and versions of the US Nutritional Guidelines, etc.) you will be surprised at the modern views of dietary saturated fat - it's generally no longer considered to produce artery-clogging fat within your body. Rather, it's those nasty carbs we tend to convert to fat.
If you tend toward high blood glucose, you might be doing yourself a favor not to turn to the low-fat and fat-free versions of dairy products (if you eat them), like yogurt, cottage cheese, which are higher per ounce/cup in carbs, but rather eat the plain, regular versions, which are lower in carbs and are satisfying in smaller portions.
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janejellyroll wrote: »I also track my food on a website that offers a breakdown of micro-nutrients as well as macro-nutrients.
I neglected to ask - which website(s) do you recommend?
Thanks again - a lot of great info you've led me to!
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I am vegan have been for quite a while and it has done incredible things for my health and well being, but, I am not what some people refer to as a "junk food vegan". I eat mostly fresh fruit, vegetables, legumes, beans, tofu. Vegan diets can most certainly be unhealthy if your calories are coming from processed, packaged foods. Whether it's vegan or nonvegan a cookie is a cookie, chips are chips, chocolate is chocolate these are processed junk foods whether they are vegan or not and should be consumed in moderation or not at all. The reason I say this is because there are people who honestly believe that just because it's vegan, it' healthy, not true at all. So to answer your question yes, vegan diets are incredibly healthy if you are consuming whole unprocessed foods.2
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I am vegan have been for quite a while and it has done incredible things for my health and well being, but, I am not what some people refer to as a "junk food vegan". I eat mostly fresh fruit, vegetables, legumes, beans, tofu. Vegan diets can most certainly be unhealthy if your calories are coming from processed, packaged foods. Whether it's vegan or nonvegan a cookie is a cookie, chips are chips, chocolate is chocolate these are processed junk foods whether they are vegan or not and should be consumed in moderation or not at all. The reason I say this is because there are people who honestly believe that just because it's vegan, it' healthy, not true at all. So to answer your question yes, vegan diets are incredibly healthy if you are consuming whole unprocessed foods.
What if you're diabetic, have food allergies/intolerance, or don't want the carbs in grains and legumes... any suggestions?0 -
I can't really comment on being diabetic as I am not diabetic and I am not a medical professional so I would not want to give anyone advice on the subject. As for food allergies/intolerance I don't know which ones you are referring to so I can't comment on that either. I personally do not tolerate anything made with wheat so I just avoid it and buy gluten free breads and pasta's. As for the grains and legumes, they if you ask my opinion are a vegan diet staple. Healthy carbs like rice, potatoes, and barley do not make people fat. Legumes, beans and grains are all part of a healthy vegan diet and in my opinion non negotiable. Hope this helps0
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I can't really comment on being diabetic as I am not diabetic and I am not a medical professional so I would not want to give anyone advice on the subject. As for food allergies/intolerance I don't know which ones you are referring to so I can't comment on that either. I personally do not tolerate anything made with wheat so I just avoid it and buy gluten free breads and pasta's. As for the grains and legumes, they if you ask my opinion are a vegan diet staple. Healthy carbs like rice, potatoes, and barley do not make people fat. Legumes, beans and grains are all part of a healthy vegan diet and in my opinion non negotiable. Hope this helps
Soy is a big source of Vegan protein, and something that a large segment of the population are deathly allergic to. His point about asking on the carbs, is likely that some people have found ways to run a ketogenic diet while being Vegan, though in my opinion, it's stupid expensive, and relies very heavily on said soy for the protein requirements (or whatever the hell Spirulina is, and even that has a pretty bad carb to protein ratio). One can only eat but so many nuts, before even a fat adapted individual is just way over on their fat ratio, trying to get protein in.
As such, what would your solution be, in this case?0 -
I would say avoid soy then if allergic. There are plenty of other sources of protein. Everything you eat has protein! Plants have protein! People are so hung up on this protein business its a little crazy if you ask me my opinion. There is literally protein in everything so if you are eating an adequate amount of calories it's near impossible to be protein deficient. Actually per 100 calories broccoli has more protein than beef. Yes you heard me right broccoli has more protein than beef. Keto diets(forgive me if I'm incorrect as I am not well versed on the subject) are very protein and fat heavy. I am a high carb low fat vegan, the most fat I consume in a day is maybe a quarter of an avocado, I don't use vegan margarines, I don't add oil to anything I cook so I am the wrong person to ask advice on a fat heavy diet.0
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I would say avoid soy then if allergic. There are plenty of other sources of protein. Everything you eat has protein! Plants have protein! People are so hung up on this protein business its a little crazy if you ask me my opinion. There is literally protein in everything so if you are eating an adequate amount of calories it's near impossible to be protein deficient. Actually per 100 calories broccoli has more protein than beef. Yes you heard me right broccoli has more protein than beef. Keto diets(forgive me if I'm incorrect as I am not well versed on the subject) are very protein and fat heavy. I am a high carb low fat vegan, the most fat I consume in a day is maybe a quarter of an avocado, I don't use vegan margarines, I don't add oil to anything I cook so I am the wrong person to ask advice on a fat heavy diet.
It's low carb, middling protein, high fat, yes. Using my macros as an example, I tend to run sub-20g/day net carbs (sub-30 now that I am in bulk mode), 20% protein (usually comes out to be around 0.85-1.0g/lb lean body mass) and 75-78% fat. This morning's breakfast as an example, was a pound of 73/27 ground beef, two ounces of mayo, and a quarter pound of Kim chi. Came out to be 884 kcals, 4g total carbs (2g net), 65g fat, 43g protein.1 -
Thank you for the insight on that I was hesitant to comment because I was a little unsure of the exact details. Love seeing the kimchi in there so beneficial for a healthy gut 0
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Thank you for the insight on that I was hesitant to comment because I was a little unsure of the exact details. Love seeing the kimchi in there so beneficial for a healthy gut
I had never tried the stuff before last night, and bought it on a whim. Between that and sauerkraut, I may be developing a problematic addiction. They both go perfectly with eggs and ground beef (but especially the eggs and kim chi).0 -
I'm a sauerkraut junkie also lol1
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