If it contains water, it counts as water. (Except booze)
msarro
Posts: 2,748 Member
As long as I have been posting here (years now) this question has been popping up: "should I count x as water."
The simplest way to put it is yes, yes you should.
PLEASE READ: Nothing in this post is meant to mean you shouldn't count calories from items which contain water. It simply means that if an item contains water it is hydrating your body. You can still drink extra water if you want, just be careful you don't overdo it and add electrolytes to your system as necessary.
But you may ask, what about caffeinated beverages? Well, first there is the matter of caffiene's diuretic effect being very VERY overblown. The body of evidence suggests the diuretic effect of caffeine requires around 700-800 mls of caffeine to take effect, at which point with coffee you would have had 7-8 cups. This is then balanced against the fact that, if you drink 7 to 8 cups of anything, you are probably going to have to pee due to volume of liquid. So, a lot of this is misattributed to caffeine instead of simple volume.
The current recommendation from the national institute of medicine states, "unless additional evidence becomes available indicating cumulative total water deficits in individuals with habitual intakes of significant amounts of caffeine, caffeinated beverages appear to contribute to the daily total water intake similar to that contributed by noncaffeinated beverages."
Sources (both meta but I don't have time to read through individual extracts):
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/caffeinated-drinks/AN01661
http://answers.webmd.com/answers/1166858/is-caffeine-a-diuretic
Now, what about things like herbal tea? Gatorade? Hot cocoa?
This is a simple one. Think of it this way, with herbal tea, you are just adding essential oils from the tea into water to give it flavor. So, you're not creating something new, you still have the same amount of water; you are just adding oils to it. So you should still count it as water intake. If you drank a cup of water and then swallowed a teaspoon of essential oils separately, you would count it as a cup of water and then a teaspoon of essential oils on your calorie tracker - two separate items. So why does this change if you mix them together? It doesn't. If it did, you couldn't count things like mineral water, or even water with a twist of lime or lemon.
What about juice? It's mostly water, just in suspension with vitamins, acids, and sugars.
Milk? Mostly water, just in an emulsion with fats, albumin protein, whey protein, immunoglobins and casein protein.
Soda? Water mixed with syrup, then carbonated. Carbonation converts a TINY amount of water into carbonic acid.
Nut milk? Water steeped in nut pulp with solids filtered out.
I hope this clears it up for people. The number of cups of water is a recommendation, but you don't actually have to make it 8 cups of pure unadulterated H2O. Interestingly enough, that 8 cups recommendation is an old estimation, the actual recommendation from the Institute of Medicine is around 13 cups (3 liters) a day for men, and 9 cups (2.2 liters) for women.
BUT the amount you actually need to take is reduced by most of your foods containing some amount of water. Those plants you eat? Unless they were dehydrated, they contain water. The air you breath? That has water too. This all contributes to your daily water intake. On average, food alone contributes 20%.
The one remaining thing I can think of is alcohol. This is the one outlier. Alcohol is a strong diuretic, it actively inhibits a hormone (cleverly named Anti-Diuretic Hormone, aka ADH) from being secreted from the pituitary gland. Without that hormone, guess what you have to do? Pee!
So, overall, if it contains water, it is water. Except alcohol because it inhibits chemicals which stop you from needing to pee. None of this says you should drink less water, what it *does* say is that you should count more things as water, and not rack your brain about it quite so much. Relax, enjoy your journey. It will take some time, and whether or not you should count that cup of tea as your last cup of water when you are already full is simply not worth occupying your time. If it seems like water, count it.
The simplest way to put it is yes, yes you should.
PLEASE READ: Nothing in this post is meant to mean you shouldn't count calories from items which contain water. It simply means that if an item contains water it is hydrating your body. You can still drink extra water if you want, just be careful you don't overdo it and add electrolytes to your system as necessary.
But you may ask, what about caffeinated beverages? Well, first there is the matter of caffiene's diuretic effect being very VERY overblown. The body of evidence suggests the diuretic effect of caffeine requires around 700-800 mls of caffeine to take effect, at which point with coffee you would have had 7-8 cups. This is then balanced against the fact that, if you drink 7 to 8 cups of anything, you are probably going to have to pee due to volume of liquid. So, a lot of this is misattributed to caffeine instead of simple volume.
The current recommendation from the national institute of medicine states, "unless additional evidence becomes available indicating cumulative total water deficits in individuals with habitual intakes of significant amounts of caffeine, caffeinated beverages appear to contribute to the daily total water intake similar to that contributed by noncaffeinated beverages."
Sources (both meta but I don't have time to read through individual extracts):
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/caffeinated-drinks/AN01661
http://answers.webmd.com/answers/1166858/is-caffeine-a-diuretic
Now, what about things like herbal tea? Gatorade? Hot cocoa?
This is a simple one. Think of it this way, with herbal tea, you are just adding essential oils from the tea into water to give it flavor. So, you're not creating something new, you still have the same amount of water; you are just adding oils to it. So you should still count it as water intake. If you drank a cup of water and then swallowed a teaspoon of essential oils separately, you would count it as a cup of water and then a teaspoon of essential oils on your calorie tracker - two separate items. So why does this change if you mix them together? It doesn't. If it did, you couldn't count things like mineral water, or even water with a twist of lime or lemon.
What about juice? It's mostly water, just in suspension with vitamins, acids, and sugars.
Milk? Mostly water, just in an emulsion with fats, albumin protein, whey protein, immunoglobins and casein protein.
Soda? Water mixed with syrup, then carbonated. Carbonation converts a TINY amount of water into carbonic acid.
Nut milk? Water steeped in nut pulp with solids filtered out.
I hope this clears it up for people. The number of cups of water is a recommendation, but you don't actually have to make it 8 cups of pure unadulterated H2O. Interestingly enough, that 8 cups recommendation is an old estimation, the actual recommendation from the Institute of Medicine is around 13 cups (3 liters) a day for men, and 9 cups (2.2 liters) for women.
BUT the amount you actually need to take is reduced by most of your foods containing some amount of water. Those plants you eat? Unless they were dehydrated, they contain water. The air you breath? That has water too. This all contributes to your daily water intake. On average, food alone contributes 20%.
The one remaining thing I can think of is alcohol. This is the one outlier. Alcohol is a strong diuretic, it actively inhibits a hormone (cleverly named Anti-Diuretic Hormone, aka ADH) from being secreted from the pituitary gland. Without that hormone, guess what you have to do? Pee!
So, overall, if it contains water, it is water. Except alcohol because it inhibits chemicals which stop you from needing to pee. None of this says you should drink less water, what it *does* say is that you should count more things as water, and not rack your brain about it quite so much. Relax, enjoy your journey. It will take some time, and whether or not you should count that cup of tea as your last cup of water when you are already full is simply not worth occupying your time. If it seems like water, count it.
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Replies
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What is it that you people have against dead horses?0
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I don't agree but, to each his own! :drinker:0
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I don't agree but, to each his own! :drinker:
What part of this post looked like an opinion to you?0 -
I agree, many will not.0
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What is it that you people have against dead horses?
I don't see anything wrong with him posting this. The question DOES get asked a lot and there's usually not a good answer. This, in my opinion, is a good answer and should be helpful to some folks.
I tend to agree with the OP - most people don't realize that the food they eat even counts towards their water intake! I still drink about 1/2 - 1 gallon of plain water a day, but that's just because I get thirsty a lot
People need to stop stressing so much over water intake.
Thanks for the post.0 -
You had me up until milk and juice.
For me, if it has calories, it doesn't count as water. Water is water. Hot tea is water. Ice tea is water unless it is sweetened. Juice and milk don't count toward my water intake. Neither does soda ... but club soda or seltzer DOES count as water because that's what it is ... carbonated water.
IDK ... you just wrote a really long post and should it really be that complicated?0 -
What is it that you people have against dead horses?
THIS!0 -
I don't agree but, to each his own! :drinker:
And I don't agree that the earth is round. That doesn't somehow make it not round though.0 -
You had me up until milk and juice.
For me, if it has calories, it doesn't count as water. Water is water. Hot tea is water. Ice tea is water unless it is sweetened. Juice and milk don't count toward my water intake. Neither does soda ... but club soda or seltzer DOES count as water because that's what it is ... carbonated water.
IDK ... you just wrote a really long post and should it really be that complicated?
So by your logic:
If you eat a packet of sugar, and then drink a glass of water, it would count as water.
But if you mix the two together, it no longer counts as water?0 -
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You had me up until milk and juice.
For me, if it has calories, it doesn't count as water. Water is water. Hot tea is water. Ice tea is water unless it is sweetened. Juice and milk don't count toward my water intake. Neither does soda ... but club soda or seltzer DOES count as water because that's what it is ... carbonated water.
IDK ... you just wrote a really long post and should it really be that complicated?
I agree with you on this. If I have a glass of milk with my dinner I put it under "dinner" because it has calories in it.
(I don't actually keep track of how much water I drink though).0 -
What is it that you people have against dead horses?
5 years of seeing the same post come up. You'll note I joined MFP around 3 years before you did. In that time I have seen this topic come up potentially hundreds of times. The goal is to create something that was worthy of becoming a sticky so hopefully we can have less clutter and repeated questions.0 -
I've heard/read similar over the years. I'm horrible about getting enough liquids in, especially water, because no matter how filtered or chilled it is, I generally don't like the taste of it. However, if I take that same pitcher of water and make really weak iced tea (green tea, decaf black tea, and a small amount of honey) it's flavored enough that I can drink it no problem. The only "downside" is that I'm always going to the bathroom. LOL! Which I know is good and I know I'm not explaining it right.
Basically, you couldn't get me to drink 2 liters of water, but flavor it just slightly with tea and honey, and I'll drink volumes.I figure that's got to be better than being dehydrated.0 -
I don't agree but, to each his own! :drinker:
And I don't agree that the earth is round. That doesn't somehow make it not round though.
I lol'd.
Really though, he used legitimate sources to back up his statement. This is not just him posting his opinion.0 -
Does steak juice count as water?
I count that and ketchup too. But not mayo... I can't trust that.0 -
bump to save and throw in my fiance's face next time he spends a day nagging me about water 0
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What is it that you people have against dead horses?
5 years of seeing the same post come up. You'll note I joined MFP around 3 years before you did. In that time I have seen this topic come up potentially hundreds of times. The goal is to create something that was worthy of becoming a sticky so hopefully we can have less clutter and repeated questions.
Ill adhere to the this new practice as soon as they revise the BMI index. (kinda like people that refused to marry until gay marriage is legal) I cant believe im still fracking OBESE! Thanks for sharing though.0 -
Does steak juice count as water?
I count that and ketchup too. But not mayo... I can't trust that.
Do you know how much water was in your steaks exactly? If yes then sure, do what makes you happy.
If no...well.0 -
Does steak juice count as water?
I count that and ketchup too. But not mayo... I can't trust that.
I know you're being snarky, but actually, yes steak juice is mostly water. When meat is cooked, heat causes proteins to tighten up (that's why overcooked meat gets tough) which squeezes out the water which otherwise is locked within. That's why cooking is a balance of cooking to the right level of doneness (and in braising getting collagen and fat to liquify) before so much water has been squeezed out that you have a rock.0 -
Does bread count as water? Jello? etc etc?0
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I don't agree but, to each his own! :drinker:
And I don't agree that the earth is round. That doesn't somehow make it not round though.
It's not round, it's an oblate spheroid...
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What is it that you people have against dead horses?
5 years of seeing the same post come up. You'll note I joined MFP around 3 years before you did. In that time I have seen this topic come up potentially hundreds of times. The goal is to create something that was worthy of becoming a sticky so hopefully we can have less clutter and repeated questions.
Ill adhere to the this new practice as soon as they revise the BMI index. (kinda like people that refused to marry until gay marriage is legal) I cant believe im still fracking OBESE! Thanks for sharing though.
You should take a look at the military calculation. For most branches if you are above the normal BMI range, they ignore it and use body fat percentage instead, below 20% for men under 30, below 24% for men over 30, 28% for women under 30, 32% for women over 30. Even when I was at my skinniest at 180, I was still listed as overweight.0 -
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Who cares?0
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Same here...this is how I count as wellYou had me up until milk and juice.
For me, if it has calories, it doesn't count as water. Water is water. Hot tea is water. Ice tea is water unless it is sweetened. Juice and milk don't count toward my water intake. Neither does soda ... but club soda or seltzer DOES count as water because that's what it is ... carbonated water.
IDK ... you just wrote a really long post and should it really be that complicated?0 -
And I don't agree that the earth is round. That doesn't somehow make it not round though.
Good one!! LOL!!0 -
If it is not water, record it in your food diary. If it is water, drink it when you're thirsty. Not sure why people get all worked up over this.0
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You had me up until milk and juice.
For me, if it has calories, it doesn't count as water. Water is water. Hot tea is water. Ice tea is water unless it is sweetened. Juice and milk don't count toward my water intake. Neither does soda ... but club soda or seltzer DOES count as water because that's what it is ... carbonated water.
IDK ... you just wrote a really long post and should it really be that complicated?
I agree with you. Milk and juice will not be counted as my water intake because they need to be added for to drinks in order for the calorie count to be counted towards our daily calorie budget.
Also, when I eat fruits and veggies, idk exactly how much water I'm getting. So of course fruit will be added to my diary, but I won't fidgit with upping the water when I may not be taking in as much as I think, or taking in more than I think.0 -
You had me up until milk and juice.
For me, if it has calories, it doesn't count as water. Water is water. Hot tea is water. Ice tea is water unless it is sweetened. Juice and milk don't count toward my water intake. Neither does soda ... but club soda or seltzer DOES count as water because that's what it is ... carbonated water.
IDK ... you just wrote a really long post and should it really be that complicated?
What anyone actually counts as their water is up to them. But with regard to what hydrates you, food and liquids do.
http://www.jacn.org/content/22/2/165.short - flavored plain water counts
"Inclusion of plain drinking water compared to exclusion of plain drinking water in the diet did not affect the markers of hydration used in this study."
http://www.jacn.org/content/19/5/591.short - any beverage counts
"This preliminary study found no significant differences in the effect of various combinations of beverages on hydration status of healthy adult males. Advising people to disregard caffeinated beverages as part of the daily fluid intake is not substantiated by the results of this study."
http://bjsportmed.com/content/40/5/406.abstract - sports drinks can hydrate more than plain water in some situations
"Ad libitum consumption of a CHO-E drink may be more effective than water in minimising fluid deficits and mean core temperature responses during tennis and other similar training in adolescent athletes."
http://www.jacn.org/content/26/suppl_5/592S.short - food counts
"Various reports indicate that humans receive 20–25% of their daily water intake from food. Fruits, vegetables and other high-moisture foods, therefore, make an important contribution to total fluid intake."
http://europepmc.org/abstract/MED/12834577 - the diuretic effect of caffeine is minimal
"...nor does it cause significant dehydration or electrolyte imbalance during exercise."
http://europepmc.org/abstract/MED/12187618 - the diuretic effect of caffeine is minimal
"The literature indicates that caffeine consumption stimulates a mild diuresis similar to water, but there is no evidence of a fluid-electrolyte imbalance that is detrimental to exercise performance or health"
"Investigations comparing caffeine (100-680 mg) to water or placebo seldom found a statistical difference in urine volume."
http://jap.physiology.org/content/83/4/1152.abstract? - interesting one about alcohol post exercise and recovery
“There appears to be no difference in recovery from dehydration whether the rehydration beverage is alcohol free or contains up to 2% alcohol, but drinks containing 4% alcohol tend to delay the recovery process.”0 -
ehhh...over simplified and really does nothing to encourage healthy habits, with the most widespread choices available.0
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