Thoughts on "Clean Eating"
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lemurcat12 wrote: »The weirdest thing about this diet may be that it cuts out foods with ingredients you cannot pronounce AND all processed foods. Isn't that redundant? If you cut out all processed foods, how are you buying foods with a label listing ingredients, whether or not the ingredients can be pronounced by someone with a basic high school education (as with most chemical names, I would hope)?
Is some bizarre and incorrect use of "processed" being employed by the creators of this challenge?
I'm at the point where I'd grudgingly accept the obnoxious term "clean" for food if people would please stop misusing "processed" or pretending like there's some connection between food being processed and it being high cal or unhealthy or full of any particular ingredient.
Or how about the use of "chemical"? It drives me crazy to hear or read people talking about avoiding chemicals in their food/diet. I want to shake them and yell "Everything is made from chemicals. Everything!"
On another note, in one survey it was found that 80% of the people were against GMOs and considered them "unhealthy". 80% also don't want DNA in their food.7 -
Well I have not read this whole thread but just wanted to say that for me the general idea of clean eating is to eat whole foods as opposed to packaged boxed foods. Processed to me means convenience foods.
That's nice, but that's not actually what processed means, so using it in that way makes communication harder. If you mean convenience foods, why not say convenience foods? I never ate convenience foods (got fat without doing so), so when someone claims to be cutting out "processed foods" that's not at all where my mind goes.
It's not about being "literal" but communicating what you mean.
I don't think of "clean eating" as just about eating more fruits and veg and meat and fish (although I'd ask why fresh are better than frozen -- I buy my meat from a farm and it's frozen when I get it, and fish here will have been frozen first), because many of us do that without calling it "clean eating." Clean eating seems to mean cutting "processed" foods entirely out, or certain subsets of processed foods that no one seems to agree on (or, if one is vegan or paleo, unprocessed foods also, like all legumes or the paleo person or, of course, all meat and other animal products for the vegan).
My normal diet is based around protein (usually fish or some other kind of meat, but also legumes) and vegetables and I enjoy fruit and certain sorts of dairy (dairy being processed, also eat other processed foods like pasta, among other things), so I don't particularly need to eat more of those things at this point, although I am not perfect. So I don't think that makes a clean eater different from the rest of us -- there seems to be this weird assumption that everyone else bases their diet around convenience foods or junk foods or what have you. Or else (as I suspect) the reason for using the term "clean eating" has nothing to do with actually eating a diet much different than what many of the rest of us do (which we'd just consider being nutritionally conscious or some such), and instead all about praising oneself and claiming to be superior to others. Or perhaps just a reaction to what is a dramatic change in your own diet and assuming that others eat just like you used to, I dunno.
I would enjoy a response should you wish to engage in an actual conversation.4 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »I think any attempt to make a "list" is silly. The list put forth by @Christine_72, while not created by her, was mentioned as a good list of what she considers clean. It includes less than 100 items. There are more than 100 varieties of vegetables alone in the world. How can any list which is marketed as "the ultimate guide" include less than 100 total items on it?
Exactly! Under Vegetables it should just say "all of them".
Same for fruit.
I was thinking the same thing. And then I thought, "all of them" goes for the flours, nuts, legumes, grains, and meat, too.
Where's the fish?
It's hard to read but the second to last entry under meats says "fresh fish and seafood". Bambi is apparently too dirty for the list.
ETA: In my book there are varying degrees of 'clean' but I wouldn't really consider any flour to be 'clean'.
You remind me of an account I came across from a merchant's wife, one of three white women in Edmonton in 1880 (total adult population 148). She wrote in that year, "The machinery for the H.B. and Noris & Belchers steam mills will be up on the boat this week. Flour cannot be bought here. Lamories Mill is broke down, and the mill acrost [sic] the river only can grind a little, and that is as black as dirt. Last week some men from Prince Albert brought up a lot for sale. Before that half the people here were living on rice & cracked wheat, could not buy flour for love or money...." Letters of Lovisa McDougall, 1878-1887 by Elizabeth M. McCrum, page 48.
Oh, how we take our food transportation and food security network for granted these days.
I live on the prairies. How about flash frozen fish? I'd trust it over fresh ocean fish any day. BTW, on my return flight from Prince Edward Island a few years back, the carry-on "luggage" was brimming with styrofoam coolers stuffed with fresh lobster.
I wish I could "Like", "Awesome", and "Insightful" this post. It's shocking to me how short our historical memories are. In my lifetime my own ancestors were drawn to packaged and convenience food because it was so wonderful that it was available and tasted so good. Now sliced bread, which used to be the standard for good things, is considered unhealthy. Famine has been the one of the scourges of mankind throughout our history!
Exactly this.1 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »My normal diet is based around protein (usually fish or some other kind of meat, but also legumes) and vegetables and I enjoy fruit and certain sorts of dairy (dairy being processed, also eat other processed foods like pasta, among other things), so I don't particularly need to eat more of those things at this point, although I am not perfect. So I don't think that makes a clean eater different from the rest of us -- there seems to be this weird assumption that everyone else bases their diet around convenience foods or junk foods or what have you. Or else (as I suspect) the reason for using the term "clean eating" has nothing to do with actually eating a diet much different than what many of the rest of us do (which we'd just consider being nutritionally conscious or some such), and instead all about praising oneself and claiming to be superior to others. Or perhaps just a reaction to what is a dramatic change in your own diet and assuming that others eat just like you used to, I dunno.
There's one place people feel more "judged" than anywhere else. Where? Whole Foods.
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I consume way over my TDEE with bleach, soap, and other household cleaning products, yet I'm still losing belly fat and toning, because with the right clean foods it's not a matter of "CICO" like everybody says. That term is as manufactured as the foods you should be avoiding, which is almost everything in the grocery store.7
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itsthehumidity wrote: »I consume way over my TDEE with bleach, soap, and other household cleaning products, yet I'm still losing belly fat and toning, because with the right clean foods it's not a matter of "CICO" like everybody says. That term is as manufactured as the foods you should be avoiding, which is almost everything in the grocery store.
Admit it, you're just not clean enough!0 -
Different things work for different people. It blows my mind that with BILLIONS of people on this planet, that anyone can think there is only ONE day to lose weight/ get healthy/ whatever. There are many people who DO live clean lifestyles (or mostly clean) whether out of desire or necessity, and are perfectly happy that way, and that's okay. There are others who eat pizza and ice cream every day, and still reach their goals and are happy- that's okay too!
Anyway, good for you for trying something new and working towards your goals! I'm also towards the end of a 30-day super-clean eating plan. I LOVE it! I absolutely believe that "anything in moderation" is fine but for me, moderating was extremely difficult and stressful. Coming from a 10-year history of binging and eating craptastically crappy crap, moderating meant obsessing over everything and constantly trying to balance on the fine line between moderation and over-indulgence. I had an unhealthy relationship with food, I tried to "get away" with what I could, and even many healthy meals were just healthy versions of junk food! I was miserable, everything felt like a struggle, and time and time again I gave in and over-indulged. This went on for years.
Now I feel better than EVER. I'm not bloated, my skin has cleared up, my allergies have improved significantly, I'm sleeping better, I have more energy, and I haven't had heartburn or stomach problems in weeks. I absolutely plan to keep it up, not just as strictly. I know what it feels like to eat well, and it's better than I could have imagined. I still plan to have things like pizza, pasta, and wine- but I don't crave those things anymore. I don't feel deprived without them. So I feel confident that I CAN moderate! Has the past month been easy? Not always, but it's been worth it. Going to the gym almost every day isn't easy for many people either but no one is saying "Never go to the gym because going every day is unsustainable."
As far as quick meals go, I agree, that's been difficult. So I started looking up crockpot recipes on Pinterest. Last night I spent less than 10 minutes prepping ingredients. This morning I spent 2 minutes putting it all into the crockpot. When I get home from work, dinner will be ready- chicken enchilada stew. So easy!
it blows my mind that people think that only eating "non processed" and "pronounceable" ingredients is "clean"
it is one of the most inane things I have ever read.
Don't you think that most of us eat whole foods 80% of the time but refuse to label food as bad because we've ground it down or it has 85.62% sodium chloride and 14.38% other trace minerals: sulphate, magnesium, calcium, potassium, bicarbonate....AMG NOOOOOOO. (sea salt)
I might have been misunderstood, and I can see how that happened. I agree that if one were to take the terms "non-processed" and "unpronounceable" to heart 100% and base their entire meal plan on them, that would be ridiculous. I think those "rules" are more like guidelines for people to help them make decisions if they are reading labels, especially for someone who wants to try eating more wholesome foods and is overwhelmed at the thought of knowing what every word on a food label means. I don't think they are meant to be hardcore rules to be lived by with the expectations that this is "THE answer." I think we all can agree that those terms, along with terms like "clean eating" can have a variety of definitions, and that one definition isn't necessarily the only correct one. I was actually pretty surprised to learn how many common natural ingredients (such as the sea salt you mentioned) are sometimes labelled with their true chemical names. I also never claimed that I think certain foods are "bad." If fact, I am looking forward to enjoying the occasional pizza, wine, and burgers...just not as often as I used to, and in smaller quantities.
My point was only that if someone is making efforts to be healthier, whatever that means to that person, who are we to judge as long as they aren't harming themselves? My comment was mostly a reaction to the "clean eating is a cult" type of comments, so I apologize if I went slightly off the OP's specific question. If "clean eating" can't even be defined, then how can it be judged? Some people take it to an unhealthy extreme. Some people are psychos about it and act like everyone else is wrong, and that's not right either. I just think that condemning it is just as nonsensical.
Edited for typos.3 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »Let me preface, I am not a clean eater. But when i think of 'clean eating' this list pretty much says it all and includes the foods i think of when i hear this term, all except for the whey protein, i wouldn't think that would make it on a clean eaters shopping list??
Wow, I wouldn't consider a lot of those foods to be clean. But even more odd to me is what is missing. Kale is clean but other greens like collard, mustard, broccoli or cauliflower greens are not?? How about wild foraged dandelion greens? Some nuts are clean while others are not??
Processed foods like mirin and white wine vinegar are clean but things like cherries and radishes are not?
This seems more like an arbitrary list of "healthy foods I like" than a list of clean foods.
Yeah - that made go, :huh:
"Clean" eating now equals a lot of processed foods? Cool.0 -
I always felt there was a difference calling a food "highly refined" as apposed to "processes". As an example, Trader Joe's sells, Oven Roasted Sliced Turkey Breast, not deli meat, but actual roasted turkey that is sliced up. Now that IMO is a fairly processed food, but I would never compare it to say a Twinkie, which is highly processed as well as highly refined and pretty much devoid of any useful nutrients. Of course, in the context of an overall healthy diet and lifestyle, the Twinkie is fine IMO but the difference to me is still there.1
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extra_medium wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »Let me preface, I am not a clean eater. But when i think of 'clean eating' this list pretty much says it all and includes the foods i think of when i hear this term, all except for the whey protein, i wouldn't think that would make it on a clean eaters shopping list??
I don't think Spiroolis should qualify
what's wrong with whey protein? its proven0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »My normal diet is based around protein (usually fish or some other kind of meat, but also legumes) and vegetables and I enjoy fruit and certain sorts of dairy (dairy being processed, also eat other processed foods like pasta, among other things), so I don't particularly need to eat more of those things at this point, although I am not perfect. So I don't think that makes a clean eater different from the rest of us -- there seems to be this weird assumption that everyone else bases their diet around convenience foods or junk foods or what have you. Or else (as I suspect) the reason for using the term "clean eating" has nothing to do with actually eating a diet much different than what many of the rest of us do (which we'd just consider being nutritionally conscious or some such), and instead all about praising oneself and claiming to be superior to others. Or perhaps just a reaction to what is a dramatic change in your own diet and assuming that others eat just like you used to, I dunno.
There's one place people feel more "judged" than anywhere else. Where? Whole Foods.
I actually never feel judged at WF. I think it's overpriced, but I like my two local WFs. They are also just filled with processed, "unclean" (rolling eyes) foods, including on the perimeter!1 -
FunkyTobias wrote: »
Ooo...I didn't know Mastro made Gnocchi!0 -
Another angle on the Clean Eating bandwagon is the generalized fear of industrialized purification and processing. Casualties in this philosophy include iodized salt, white sugar, and bleached flour.
Out of curiosity, I checked how household salt is made. Salt brine is evaporated and then washed. I don't know how much "cleaner" one can get, but clean eaters will suggest that the "industrial" process incorporates toxic chemicals somehow.
http://www.siftocanada.com/en/about-us/how-we-produce/mechanical-evaporation/
Yet the much touted Himilayan salt is a veritable cornucopia of elements.
http://themeadow.com/pages/minerals-in-himalayan-pink-salt-spectral-analysis
But...himilayan is better because...."natural"?
Not because its more natural - its because its more "exotic" and therefore, more expensive- theres that elitist foodie thing again..............2 -
I always felt there was a difference calling a food "highly refined" as apposed to "processes". As an example, Trader Joe's sells, Oven Roasted Sliced Turkey Breast, not deli meat, but actual roasted turkey that is sliced up. Now that IMO is a fairly processed food, but I would never compare it to say a Twinkie, which is highly processed as well as highly refined and pretty much devoid of any useful nutrients. Of course, in the context of an overall healthy diet and lifestyle, the Twinkie is fine IMO but the difference to me is still there.
Yeah, I agree with this. I think if people used terms like "highly refined" or "convenience foods" it would be easier to follow.2 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »I always felt there was a difference calling a food "highly refined" as apposed to "processes". As an example, Trader Joe's sells, Oven Roasted Sliced Turkey Breast, not deli meat, but actual roasted turkey that is sliced up. Now that IMO is a fairly processed food, but I would never compare it to say a Twinkie, which is highly processed as well as highly refined and pretty much devoid of any useful nutrients. Of course, in the context of an overall healthy diet and lifestyle, the Twinkie is fine IMO but the difference to me is still there.
Yeah, I agree with this. I think if people used terms like "highly refined" or "convenience foods" it would be easier to follow.
Agreed. I often tell people I eat whole foods that are nutrient dense...meaning veggies, fruits, meats, cheese etc.
and then most say "oh you are a clean eater"...I laugh...mainly because it's usually all in the wording people use...
I would never call myself a "clean eater" because I don't think fast food is evil...it's eh but it will do in a pinch.
I also don't insist on the whole "elitist" part of clean eating...
I think my favourite clean eating snafu was those that "eat clean" but only have margarine in the house not butter.
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mmmm gnocchi3
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lemurcat12 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »I think any attempt to make a "list" is silly. The list put forth by @Christine_72, while not created by her, was mentioned as a good list of what she considers clean. It includes less than 100 items. There are more than 100 varieties of vegetables alone in the world. How can any list which is marketed as "the ultimate guide" include less than 100 total items on it?
Exactly! Under Vegetables it should just say "all of them".
Same for fruit.
I was thinking the same thing. And then I thought, "all of them" goes for the flours, nuts, legumes, grains, and meat, too.
Where's the fish?
It's hard to read but the second to last entry under meats says "fresh fish and seafood". Bambi is apparently too dirty for the list.
ETA: In my book there are varying degrees of 'clean' but I wouldn't really consider any flour to be 'clean'.
You remind me of an account I came across from a merchant's wife, one of three white women in Edmonton in 1880 (total adult population 148). She wrote in that year, "The machinery for the H.B. and Noris & Belchers steam mills will be up on the boat this week. Flour cannot be bought here. Lamories Mill is broke down, and the mill acrost [sic] the river only can grind a little, and that is as black as dirt. Last week some men from Prince Albert brought up a lot for sale. Before that half the people here were living on rice & cracked wheat, could not buy flour for love or money...." Letters of Lovisa McDougall, 1878-1887 by Elizabeth M. McCrum, page 48.
Oh, how we take our food transportation and food security network for granted these days.
I live on the prairies. How about flash frozen fish? I'd trust it over fresh ocean fish any day. BTW, on my return flight from Prince Edward Island a few years back, the carry-on "luggage" was brimming with styrofoam coolers stuffed with fresh lobster.
I'm reasonably sure that any fish I buy here, even if defrosted, was at one point flash frozen (I'm in the US midwest). I have caught my own fish, but not for years, I'm not a fishing person. My dad used to send me salmon (he was in AK then), but it was, of course, frozen or smoked.
Some of my ancestors owned a grain mill back in the 1830s. First one in their midwestern county.
Yeah, I live far from the ocean too. The market does occasionally have fresh fish but it's very expensive. Like $30+ a lb. We do fish but we can't catch things like salmon or swordfish or tuna in the lakes and streams here so we buy frozen and go for wild caught when available. That's clean enough for me. Maybe not as clean as the trout or catfish we catch ourselves, but clean enough.1
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