Paleo/Primal anyone?

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  • goldthistime
    goldthistime Posts: 3,214 Member
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    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    esjones12 wrote: »
    A calorie is not just a calorie. The body treats different things differently.

    Foods are different (in other words, the body treats different "things" differently). That has NOTHING to do with what a calorie is a calorie means and once again anyone who thinks it does either isn't reading carefully or is willfully misunderstanding or misrepresenting.

    No one claims that a food is a food.

    That, of course, doesn't make Taubes reputable or the "science" on which paleo is based valid.

    Also, who are these "world renowned" folks? There are tons of podcasts that say any number of things (I'm a podcast junkie) including remarkably stupid things such as "calories don't matter," as well as dramatically contrary things (one can listen to a HFLC podcast by such luminaries as Jimmy Moore -- that's sarcasm -- followed by an interview of T. Colin Campbell by Rich Roll (I quite enjoyed that one, although I'm not sold on all of T. Colin Campbell's ideas or veganism, even though they appeal to me somewhat and I like Roll, even though he likes more woo than I normally do), followed by something like the Fitcast or Evil Sugar Radio or Layne Norton (pretty in line with what lots on MFP believe). Or Sigma Nutrition, which has a variety of guests with different POVs (so do the Rich Roll, Fitcast, and ESR ones; Jimmy Moore probably does not).

    I found @jeffkirkwold's post to be inappropriately condescending and I disengaged. ( "gospel", "get some data", "uninformed know it all"). I'm amazed that you are still here posting in a friendly informative manner. Kudos.

    As to the OP and others in this thread, I wish you success in your endeavours to get healthier, however you choose to achieve it.

  • AngInCanada
    AngInCanada Posts: 947 Member
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    I've been primal for 5 or 6 days now. Not counting because I feel so good and I don't plan on starting from it. Haven't had an inkling of acid reflux since starting and before I was drinking from the bottle of gaviscon, haven't had even the tiniest amount of back pain (I have Osteoarthritis), I am sleeping better than I have in a long time and I have a ton of energy. I also have celiac disease so I've been off gluten for about 4 years. There's nothing I miss and I feel good so that's all that matters.
  • MaxT370
    MaxT370 Posts: 274 Member
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    esjones12 wrote: »
    jeffkirkwold wrote: »
    For all of the people that believe a calorie is a calorie, please don't say it like the gospel. Get some data behind your assumptions. Research YouTube and watch Gary Taubes talk on Good Calories Bad Calories and come back and see if you are sure whether all calories are the same. A few months ago, I would have agreed. I started to educate myself and look at the research and it would seem not all calories impact the body in the same way. PLEASE, share your successes but be wary of becoming an uninformed know it all on the matter. I am LCHF and by far, my fat loss and general heath are more rapidly improving over my "All Calories are the Same" beliefs. Some of us have hormonal imbalances like insulin sensitivity and metabolic disorders. HOW the body metabolizes certain foods in certain people really matters.

    OMG there is life on this planet. Keep on educating yourself @jeffkirkwold! This, all of this. A calorie is not just a calorie. The body treats different things differently. There are tons of free podcasts and YouTube videos with top world-renowned fitness and nutrition experts who would laugh at the advice given out on this forum...

    Personally I stick to full fat, local, organic, grass-fed foods. Tons of veggies volume wise. High fat and low carb macro wise. I monitor portion sizes but don't count calories. I focus on getting quality sleep and reducing stress.

    I'm pretty much doing what you're doing! Good fats, organic, grass fed, lots of veggies, low carb, i've also stopped eating red meat on a regular basis (that just happened because I don't crave it anymore - I stick to turkey and chicken) but once in a while I will eat a hamburger. My mindset has switched food to fuel for my body and not just something to feed my hunger and I fully believe you are what you eat.

    I have fallen off the wagon from time to time and definitely regret when I do.
  • rankinsect
    rankinsect Posts: 2,238 Member
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    jeffkirkwold wrote: »
    For all of the people that believe a calorie is a calorie, please don't say it like the gospel. Get some data behind your assumptions. Research YouTube and watch Gary Taubes talk on Good Calories Bad Calories and come back and see if you are sure whether all calories are the same. A few months ago, I would have agreed. I started to educate myself and look at the research and it would seem not all calories impact the body in the same way. PLEASE, share your successes but be wary of becoming an uninformed know it all on the matter. I am LCHF and by far, my fat loss and general heath are more rapidly improving over my "All Calories are the Same" beliefs. Some of us have hormonal imbalances like insulin sensitivity and metabolic disorders. HOW the body metabolizes certain foods in certain people really matters.

    Taubes is not a scientist, he's a journalist, and if you want real science, you should look at the scientific literature, not YouTube.
  • LokiGrrl
    LokiGrrl Posts: 156 Member
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    I read a little about paleo/primal when researching diets, but they seemed to think I had unlimited funds to buy all this super pricey food. Since I don't, I didn't even bother to go further. Since then I've read a few things that make me question the facts on it, but it's really academic since I have no plans to go in that direction.

    But then, I do LCHF/keto, which other people think is stupid or dangerous or whatever. I do what works for me, other people can do whatever they want. I like LCHF because it makes me full and gives me lots of energy so I'm able to eat at a deficit and exercise, and those two things are kind of important if you want to lose weight. ;) YMMV, but do learn something about macros and micros and hydration and electrolytes before starting!
  • Turb2o
    Turb2o Posts: 82 Member
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    I tried it three years ago lost weight and put on muscle in four months but fell of the wagon due to a lot of work stress and lack of sleep but in the short time I went Paleo wish I could go back but it is hard and I like bread
  • 007Aggie
    007Aggie Posts: 110 Member
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    Hocus pocus...my diet defies the laws of physics!
  • DrifterBear
    DrifterBear Posts: 265 Member
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    Lyleth58 wrote: »
    Just started the paleo diet and am five days in.
    michelekay2015 wrote: »
    I'm Primal too. I've made things from MarksDailyApple website. I've only been doing it a few weeks.
    zenweeder wrote: »
    I'm starting the second week of my second 21-Day Primal Challenge.

    Ever notice how many paleo evangelists have only been doing it for a couple weeks or even just a few days? It's so restrictive and as others have pointed out, calories and nutrition are totally different considerations. If you're here to lose weight, your primary concern should be calories. I can't buy in to any 'diet' that advocates eliminating or restricting any food group. It's far too restrictive and would be way too hard for me to build a lifestyle around.

    Eating a diverse and balanced diet gives you access to a range of nutrition that benefits your body. Why narrow down the list with a set of arbitrary rules? Great if it works for you, but there's a reason diets come and go and take so many forms. There is no magic formula, no silver bullet. You should eat what you enjoy and try to balance your diet getting fruits, veggies, meat, grains, etc. Diets are like conspiracy theories, they latch on to a couple soundbites that sound good and then take you to baseless conclusions.

    Go ahead and focus on only eating what our ancestors did, or only eating during a set feeding window, or eat what the military eats (which has one of the most absurd set of rules), or how about only eating while standing on your head so that your body has to work harder digesting? Whatever you do, if you want to make a life change, make sure it's something you can stick with.
  • DapperKay
    DapperKay Posts: 140 Member
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    cushman5279 wrote: »

    I agree with this but also believe hormonal imbalances, metabolic disorders, etc... all comes down to the type of foods that are being consumed. Food is medicine.

    Well said, and I would add that at the bottom line food is information. What that information contains is vital for our body to learn, heal and move forward. Why we choose to ignore this and assume eating anything goes is beyond me. Weight loss that follows this mentality will do so much harm. It has harmed me personally beyond belief. Only when I learned the true value of nutrition, quality of food, farming methods, inflammatory properties of certain foods, etc, did I actually reverse damage done by blind calorie restriction. I actually encourage calorie deficit in minor amounts as it reduces oxidation in the body and optimizes GI function, what we eat though, that is the most important thing as you said. You cant lose weight unless you are in some form of deficit, but weight loss is not all their is to health.

    It is only hard become modern life and food habits are so awfully wrong. I have been doing Paleo for 8 months and don't plan on giving it up for anything. The benefits are so incredible, I have never felt this alive and well. It is hard work initially, but the rewards are high.
  • ggillespieuk1
    ggillespieuk1 Posts: 1 Member
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    Hey just started LCHF and I'm trying to monitor net carbs on app does anyone else have probs with this
  • jeffkirkwold
    jeffkirkwold Posts: 33 Member
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    rankinsect wrote: »
    jeffkirkwold wrote: »
    For all of the people that believe a calorie is a calorie, please don't say it like the gospel. Get some data behind your assumptions. Research YouTube and watch Gary Taubes talk on Good Calories Bad Calories and come back and see if you are sure whether all calories are the same. A few months ago, I would have agreed. I started to educate myself and look at the research and it would seem not all calories impact the body in the same way. PLEASE, share your successes but be wary of becoming an uninformed know it all on the matter. I am LCHF and by far, my fat loss and general heath are more rapidly improving over my "All Calories are the Same" beliefs. Some of us have hormonal imbalances like insulin sensitivity and metabolic disorders. HOW the body metabolizes certain foods in certain people really matters.

    Taubes is not a scientist, he's a journalist, and if you want real science, you should look at the scientific literature, not YouTube.

    I don't care if Taubes is a journalist or a stable boy! The man presents science from studies. Big time University studies at that! He's only the tip of the iceberg. Of course I didn't just listen to his presentation of the science...but look at the data man, we all need to become medical researchers of health because something sure ain't working with the SAD Standards.

    Truth be told, Taubes IS a scientist in training and education. Further, I believe he has done more qualitative and quantitative research on the topic of metabolism than most Doctors have. I'm just discovering lchf after somewhat successful trials on the typical calorie in calorie out methods. I'm not so much looking for the only right method as I am looking for the most optimal method with the best results. Most importantly, I'm looking for some method that is sustainable and overall, healthy. I am convinced by the hard science though, regardless who the mouthpiece is, that lchf has enough credible science behind it that makes it worthy of consideration and self trial.
  • jeffkirkwold
    jeffkirkwold Posts: 33 Member
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    goldthistime wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    esjones12 wrote: »
    A calorie is not just a calorie. The body treats different things differently.

    Foods are different (in other words, the body treats different "things" differently). That has NOTHING to do with what a calorie is a calorie means and once again anyone who thinks it does either isn't reading carefully or is willfully misunderstanding or misrepresenting.

    No one claims that a food is a food.

    That, of course, doesn't make Taubes reputable or the "science" on which paleo is based valid.

    Also, who are these "world renowned" folks? There are tons of podcasts that say any number of things (I'm a podcast junkie) including remarkably stupid things such as "calories don't matter," as well as dramatically contrary things (one can listen to a HFLC podcast by such luminaries as Jimmy Moore -- that's sarcasm -- followed by an interview of T. Colin Campbell by Rich Roll (I quite enjoyed that one, although I'm not sold on all of T. Colin Campbell's ideas or veganism, even though they appeal to me somewhat and I like Roll, even though he likes more woo than I normally do), followed by something like the Fitcast or Evil Sugar Radio or Layne Norton (pretty in line with what lots on MFP believe). Or Sigma Nutrition, which has a variety of guests with different POVs (so do the Rich Roll, Fitcast, and ESR ones; Jimmy Moore probably does not).

    I found @jeffkirkwold's post to be inappropriately condescending and I disengaged. ( "gospel", "get some data", "uninformed know it all"). I'm amazed that you are still here posting in a friendly informative manner. Kudos.

    As to the OP and others in this thread, I wish you success in your endeavours to get healthier, however you choose to achieve it.

    I can see why you'd be offended. I really stepped over the line when I suggested that it might not be as simple as cal in cal out. While I did not state lchf is the only right way for everyone, I did state the science for the case is compelling and worth looking into. I'm a MONSTER! My deepest apologies for not being a slave to an old weight loss convention of cal in cal out. I will correct my own rebellion on free speech and science exploration and step in line with the rest of the 'this is the way it has always been' robots. Thanks for setting me straight and I will buy a loaf of bread, box of sweetie cereal and enjoy my impending diabetes post haste.

    Better toughen up butter cup, ALL ideas are worth considering in science.
  • StealthHealth
    StealthHealth Posts: 2,417 Member
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    painterm81 wrote: »
    Honestly I'm not sure what my diet is. I think maybe a combination of multiple diets. I cut out all breads, rice, pasta's, regular potatoes, and sweets with the exception of a piece or two of dark chocolate daily for the antioxidants. I drink water and diet pepsi. I'm trying to cut out the diet pepsi but it's harder than cutting out everything else that I did.

    I'm very similar.

    FWIW I regularly read up on paleo/primal, I keep an eye on mark's Daily apple and, although I apply a healthy dose of skepticism and certainly don't buy everything he says, I think there is some pretty good information on there.

    I guess I'm sympathetic to the principles (although I admit that the underlying premise has more holes than swiss cheese).

    If I were to nail my colours to the mast I'd say that I'm more of an IIFYM type guy, I find it interesting to note that when cutting (in calorie restriction) my IIFYM eating ends up looking pretty much like Mark Sisson's Primal principles but when bulking it veers away considerably because I then struggle to get the calories in without eating more refined carbs.

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