Recomp or Cut & Bulk phases?
Shadowmf023
Posts: 812 Member
Which one would you recommend for a skinnyfat 23 year old?
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Replies
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Personally, as a woman who likes her clothes to fit right all the time, I find recomp preferable.1
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How skinny fat? Prior athletic history?0
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Mmm. What athletic history? Lol.
I have a strange body. My arms and legs are relatively small, but I have this odd beer belly (no alcohol has ever passed my lips). But I'm flabby all over.
Months ago, I did weight lifting in the gym. Then stopped. I'm starting now again. Second day today. Tomorrow the trainer will probably ask me what my goals are. Obviously I need to add some actual muscle size to look toned. Which is why I asked this question.
I lost 40lb previously with CICO l, but just walking.0 -
If you have a gut, you need to "cut" period. A recomp is more useful when you are at a desirable weight. If you recomp now, the gut will be there a long time.1
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I'm aware of that. I'm already at a healthy weight. Well, the top end of BMI. Just thinking ahead.0
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Do you know your body fat percentage? At a certain point, if it's too high you'll gain more fat during a bulk than you'd want to.
Additionally, there's an argument to be made that you want to max out your newbie gains before bulking, so if you're just starting lifting again, it would be better to wait. This blog is an excellent "Bulking for Beginners" guide: http://strengthunbound.com/bulking-complete-guide-for-beginners/
It says: "The body adapts to strength training at first through your nervous system, using the muscle you have more efficiently, and by increasing the number of nuclei in the muscles (which itself does not contribute to size). This initial adaptation acts as a foundation that will eventually allow hypertrophy to occur. [1]
When you first start strength training, the body just isn’t ready to grow bigger muscles efficiently.
When you have more than ample capacity for beginner strength gains, training doesn’t produce as much muscle tension or fatigue as the existing muscle is capable of producing. Given the exact same amount of muscle mass, if you compare a person that has been strength training 6 months vs. one that has been training 2 weeks, the more experienced trainee will be much stronger and will gain muscle much more efficiently in a calorie surplus."0 -
As mentioned, recomposition is more for people within 5-10lbs of goal. If you have belly fat, you definitely do not want to start with bulk and cutting, because you would end up adding fat on top of what you already have unless you continue to cut for awhile before.
How far away from your desired goal weight are you?0 -
The only bf% meassurement I have access to currently are calipers. At 5'2, 130lb, it's 31%0
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Also, about the above article. Since I'm still losing, I'm have some time for noob gains to settle down before gaining muscle. For now, I'm just focussing on keeping the little I have.0
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vespiquenn wrote: »As mentioned, recomposition is more for people within 5-10lbs of goal. If you have belly fat, you definitely do not want to start with bulk and cutting, because you would end up adding fat on top of what you already have unless you continue to cut for awhile before.
How far away from your desired goal weight are you?
Between 14-20lb, depending on how I look.0 -
In that case, I'd say keep losing slowly, make sure you're eating enough protein, and get on a structured progressive lifting program. Once you're at your target weight, I'd say recomp for awhile and then reevaluate your goals.0
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Shadowmf023 wrote: »Also, about the above article. Since I'm still losing, I'm have some time for noob gains to settle down before gaining muscle. For now, I'm just focussing on keeping the little I have.
Based on 31% as a ballpark, just keep working on this. You still have quite a bit to cut. Keep lifting to retain muscle as you have been, and start thinking of recomposition as you get closer to goal. Just as a comparison, most women are recommended not to start bulk/cutting until they have a body fat percentage around the low 20s.
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Shadowmf023 wrote: »I'm aware of that. I'm already at a healthy weight. Well, the top end of BMI. Just thinking ahead.
Healthy weight and aesthetics aren't always the same - you are at a high body fat. Cut and lift heavy. Recomp and gain slowly when you are happy with your level of fat.1 -
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Look up body weight training. Embrace it and you will see results. Don't skip the cardio it can help burn the last of that fat. Be consistent week after week. Body weight training will help you build newbie muscle and prepare you for weight training down the road and you can use body weight training as a form of cardio if you do it right (no rest in-between muscle groups). Worked great for me.0
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I'm not into cardio. But I love weight lifting. I walk a lot daily (40-120min), and my program at the gym will be 1 hour weight lifting 5 days a week.1
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For the vast majority, just working out and re-comp is just fine and will ultimately result in a fitness body. I'm personally not much of a proponent of bulk and cut cycles without very specific goals in mind...it's really unnecessary for most people who just want to look good and look like they workout. and if you do a bulk and cut cycle you'd want to start at a pretty low BF%.1
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cwolfman13 wrote: »For the vast majority, just working out and re-comp is just fine and will ultimately result in a fitness body. I'm personally not much of a proponent of bulk and cut cycles without very specific goals in mind...it's really unnecessary for most people who just want to look good and look like they workout. and if you do a bulk and cut cycle you'd want to start at a pretty low BF%.
Won't the results be faster and better on a bulk and cut though?0 -
Shadowmf023 wrote: »Won't the results be faster and better on a bulk and cut though?
If you are not at your ultimate weight goal I would not consider a bulk cycle at all. Keep your protein levels adequate and your fat levels, watch your carb intake and stay within your deficit goals until you hit your ultimate weight goal. Then consider other options. Just my opinion.
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Shadowmf023 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »For the vast majority, just working out and re-comp is just fine and will ultimately result in a fitness body. I'm personally not much of a proponent of bulk and cut cycles without very specific goals in mind...it's really unnecessary for most people who just want to look good and look like they workout. and if you do a bulk and cut cycle you'd want to start at a pretty low BF%.
Won't the results be faster and better on a bulk and cut though?
As a beginner, you'd be much better off IMO to just train and re-comp...IMO, more advanced lifters benefit most from bulking and cutting cycles...they really aren't necessary for newbs. Also, bulk and cut cycles can be pretty hard on the body...
http://scoobysworkshop.com/bulking-and-cutting/
bulking/cut cycles have their place but IMO, there is little benefit to a newb. And faster isn't always better....you achieve a fitness body by living a fitness centric lifestyle...not a few bulk and cut cycles.
ETA: You should think about programming, etc before you ever think about bulk and cut cycles...also, you will need a lot of knowledge as well as a good mental state to do a bulk and cut cycle...to make a bulk cycle worth it's while, you're going to ultimately get fat.3 -
Spliner1969 wrote: »Shadowmf023 wrote: »Won't the results be faster and better on a bulk and cut though?
If you are not at your ultimate weight goal I would not consider a bulk cycle at all. Keep your protein levels adequate and your fat levels, watch your carb intake and stay within your deficit goals until you hit your ultimate weight goal. Then consider other options. Just my opinion.
First of all, you lose weight by creating a calorie deficit, and although I do eat Keto, there's no need to watch carbs without a medical condition. It won't make you lose any faster if you don't have a deficit. I just eat this way because it's more satisfying, and makes creating a deficit easier.
Second, I was only asking that question because I'm weighing up bulk/cut vs recomp. I know I still need to lose. Just educating myself a little.0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »Shadowmf023 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »For the vast majority, just working out and re-comp is just fine and will ultimately result in a fitness body. I'm personally not much of a proponent of bulk and cut cycles without very specific goals in mind...it's really unnecessary for most people who just want to look good and look like they workout. and if you do a bulk and cut cycle you'd want to start at a pretty low BF%.
Won't the results be faster and better on a bulk and cut though?
As a beginner, you'd be much better off IMO to just train and re-comp...IMO, more advanced lifters benefit most from bulking and cutting cycles...they really aren't necessary for newbs. Also, bulk and cut cycles can be pretty hard on the body...
http://scoobysworkshop.com/bulking-and-cutting/
bulking/cut cycles have their place but IMO, there is little benefit to a newb. And faster isn't always better....you achieve a fitness body by living a fitness centric lifestyle...not a few bulk and cut cycles.
ETA: You should think about programming, etc before you ever think about bulk and cut cycles...also, you will need a lot of knowledge as well as a good mental state to do a bulk and cut cycle...to make a bulk cycle worth it's while, you're going to ultimately get fat.
Other people may have things more dialed in than I do, but it's taken me 9 months to a year to run a full bulk/cut cycle. (As women, we want to gain SLOWLY during a bulk). It's less "bulk/cut" and more "1 month to get things stabilized/4-6 months bulk/3-4 months cut/another month to come back up to maintenance." You could also get a lot done in a year of recomping.0 -
Shadowmf023 wrote: »First of all, you lose weight by creating a calorie deficit, and although I do eat Keto, there's no need to watch carbs without a medical condition. It won't make you lose any faster if you don't have a deficit. I just eat this way because it's more satisfying, and makes creating a deficit easier.
Second, I was only asking that question because I'm weighing up bulk/cut vs recomp. I know I still need to lose. Just educating myself a little.
My mistake, I was under the impression you were considering a bulk phase from your original post. My response was poorly worded, by "watch" I meant stay within your macros, not that low carb would help you lose weight faster. Only calorie deficit will do that. My sister might disagree since she lost all her weight on a <100 carb/day diet but I'm not convinced that would work for me, nor would I be able to maintain it long term.
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Spliner1969 wrote: »Shadowmf023 wrote: »First of all, you lose weight by creating a calorie deficit, and although I do eat Keto, there's no need to watch carbs without a medical condition. It won't make you lose any faster if you don't have a deficit. I just eat this way because it's more satisfying, and makes creating a deficit easier.
Second, I was only asking that question because I'm weighing up bulk/cut vs recomp. I know I still need to lose. Just educating myself a little.
My mistake, I was under the impression you were considering a bulk phase from your original post. My response was poorly worded, by "watch" I meant stay within your macros, not that low carb would help you lose weight faster. Only calorie deficit will do that. My sister might disagree since she lost all her weight on a <100 carb/day diet but I'm not convinced that would work for me, nor would I be able to maintain it long term.
It is the eventual goal yes. But I'm well aware that I still have a long while to go before deciding between bulk/cut or recomp.0 -
I just finished a bulk cycle and am starting a cut now. But I have specific goals in mind and am extremely aware of my calories, exercises and macro's. I already have pretty low BF and am looking to get as lean as my body will go while maintaining the muscle I built over the past few months. Initially however I just focused on cardio, calories and toning up with light weights and lotts of reps. I'd say it depends upon your near-term goal.0
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Weight lifting wise, the program I want to do has 12 reps/3 sets/30-45sec rest, for an hour, 5 days a week. Each day focusing on different sets of muscles.0
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Shadowmf023 wrote: »Spliner1969 wrote: »Shadowmf023 wrote: »Won't the results be faster and better on a bulk and cut though?
If you are not at your ultimate weight goal I would not consider a bulk cycle at all. Keep your protein levels adequate and your fat levels, watch your carb intake and stay within your deficit goals until you hit your ultimate weight goal. Then consider other options. Just my opinion.
First of all, you lose weight by creating a calorie deficit, and although I do eat Keto, there's no need to watch carbs without a medical condition. It won't make you lose any faster if you don't have a deficit. I just eat this way because it's more satisfying, and makes creating a deficit easier.
Second, I was only asking that question because I'm weighing up bulk/cut vs recomp. I know I still need to lose. Just educating myself a little.
If you are looking to gain some muscle (even if you are looking to lose more weight) while doing Keto, then you may want to consider a cycled or timed keto diet (you are eating carbs pre- or post-workout). Carbs are not only very beneficial during a bulk, they are highly beneficial during cuts since they are muscle sparring (they inhibit protein degradation). Carbs, particularly the spiking of insulin, causes the body to active mTOR (which causes muscle growth); heavy stress (training) and leucine (amino acids) can active mTOR and protein synthesis. So while you can activate mTOR/MPS during a keto diet, spiking insulin will increase the ability to prevent protein degradation.
At the high end of a healthy bod weight, I would continue to cut. I would probably also focus on a solid 3-day full body routine. And just continue to monitor progress. If you start to get towards the bottom of the acceptable weight range, I would reevaluate your plan.2 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »Shadowmf023 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »For the vast majority, just working out and re-comp is just fine and will ultimately result in a fitness body. I'm personally not much of a proponent of bulk and cut cycles without very specific goals in mind...it's really unnecessary for most people who just want to look good and look like they workout. and if you do a bulk and cut cycle you'd want to start at a pretty low BF%.
Won't the results be faster and better on a bulk and cut though?
As a beginner, you'd be much better off IMO to just train and re-comp...IMO, more advanced lifters benefit most from bulking and cutting cycles...they really aren't necessary for newbs. Also, bulk and cut cycles can be pretty hard on the body...
http://scoobysworkshop.com/bulking-and-cutting/
bulking/cut cycles have their place but IMO, there is little benefit to a newb. And faster isn't always better....you achieve a fitness body by living a fitness centric lifestyle...not a few bulk and cut cycles.
ETA: You should think about programming, etc before you ever think about bulk and cut cycles...also, you will need a lot of knowledge as well as a good mental state to do a bulk and cut cycle...to make a bulk cycle worth it's while, you're going to ultimately get fat.
Other people may have things more dialed in than I do, but it's taken me 9 months to a year to run a full bulk/cut cycle. (As women, we want to gain SLOWLY during a bulk). It's less "bulk/cut" and more "1 month to get things stabilized/4-6 months bulk/3-4 months cut/another month to come back up to maintenance." You could also get a lot done in a year of recomping.
I know a handful of body builders and their bulk cycles are typically six months minimum...but often closer to nine months to maximize the cycle and then they'll cut for four to six months or so.
And yeah...you can make a lot of headway doing a recomp with solid programming. My wife has been doing just that since March...so just about six months...she looks friggin' phenomenal. Her trainer really kicks *kitten*...it's been pretty impressive transformation to watch and she's also becoming an endurance beast on the bike...she will start doing time trials with me next year.
Programming is always important, but I really think it's numero uno for results as a noob...many noobs fail to get the results they think they should be getting simply because their programming is about worthless.2 -
Shadowmf023 wrote: »Spliner1969 wrote: »Shadowmf023 wrote: »Won't the results be faster and better on a bulk and cut though?
If you are not at your ultimate weight goal I would not consider a bulk cycle at all. Keep your protein levels adequate and your fat levels, watch your carb intake and stay within your deficit goals until you hit your ultimate weight goal. Then consider other options. Just my opinion.
First of all, you lose weight by creating a calorie deficit, and although I do eat Keto, there's no need to watch carbs without a medical condition. It won't make you lose any faster if you don't have a deficit. I just eat this way because it's more satisfying, and makes creating a deficit easier.
Second, I was only asking that question because I'm weighing up bulk/cut vs recomp. I know I still need to lose. Just educating myself a little.
If you are looking to gain some muscle (even if you are looking to lose more weight) while doing Keto, then you may want to consider a cycled or timed keto diet (you are eating carbs pre- or post-workout). Carbs are not only very beneficial during a bulk, they are highly beneficial during cuts since they are muscle sparring (they inhibit protein degradation). Carbs, particularly the spiking of insulin, causes the body to active mTOR (which causes muscle growth); heavy stress (training) and leucine (amino acids) can active mTOR and protein synthesis. So while you can activate mTOR/MPS during a keto diet, spiking insulin will increase the ability to prevent protein degradation.
At the high end of a healthy bod weight, I would continue to cut. I would probably also focus on a solid 3-day full body routine. And just continue to monitor progress. If you start to get towards the bottom of the acceptable weight range, I would reevaluate your plan.
You make a good point. Any advice on the number of carbs to eat before/after a workout? (Mmm, before might be better. It'll give me some extra energy, no?)0 -
As stated by others, in your case, I would slowly cut until you are closer to goal, a few lbs can make a huge difference the closer you get and then you can see what you are working with. Then I would hang out at maintenance for a while (and recomp), since you are new to lifting you will benefit more from this.. and then down the road possibly consider a bulk if you are still not happy with your progress. Of course you could bulk when you get lean enough, but that all depends on your goals as well as your comfort level (because in a bulk, yes, you will gain fat as well as muscle).
I have done a bulk/cut cycle in the past (two years ago) and am currently recomping so it will be interesting to compare the two progress wise1
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