Find what works for you: why I hate conventional strength training
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amusedmonkey wrote: »CarlKRobbo wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »What I did wasn't too extreme, it was just too many exercises at once when I'm only used to 1-2. I followed this which is a beginner routine:
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/rudy6.htm
Did 4 sets of 10 with the higher end of the recommended weights. I admit I went a bit higher on the squats with 15 kg dumbbells (a total of 30 kg).
I don't think it's the weight or the intensity. I just don't physically handle long strength workouts for some reason (ignoring the boredom and disinterest). Probably has to do with reactive blood pressure from both physical and mental stress? This kind of dull headache I only used to get when I had hypertension and my blood pressure was high.
It is the weight and intensity!
Start again, but this time, do 1 set of 10 with the lower end of the recommended weights. Do that 3 times this week and next, then see about adding a bit of weight or another set.
See, I'm not a total beginner. I've been doing bodyweight for the past two years (squats, lunges, pushups, one legged glute bridges, band assisted pullups and such) but broke the exercises apart to where I did only one or two at a time. I chose the weight after using the first set as a test set. I already have some basic strength and could have gone even higher.
1 set of 10 might have actually been better since it would have taken me 10 or so minutes, before my body and mind start falling apart.
See, i personally see the last line here as an big issue - 10 reps in 10 Minutes is very slow. I don't know many people who would take that long.
I do strength training, and the heavy version of that, 1 set of 10 will take me 45 Seconds, 60 max if it's VERY heavy\hard. Even when i go heavy (3 reps), my REST periods TOTAL 10 Minutes....
Reading what you've said, you went from 1/2 excercises to 10. That's a big jump regardless of weight\reps. anyone who increases volume will struggle, as have i, with 6 years strength training under my belt (Albeit, i'm only adding more reps to my training).
If you split that program in half (50/50 it with Upper\Lower), then you'd adapt better.
Finally, you said earlier, you spent a few weeks trying strength training previously. On average, it takes around about 6 weeks for the human body to adapt to new demands, you need to give it more than a few weeks
10 reps of 10 exercises (a total of 100 reps) in 10 minutes. It's not that slow.
I agree, THATS not, what i was was saying was your last sentence:
"1 set of 10 might have actually been better since it would have taken me 10 or so minutes, before my body and mind start falling apart"
Now, If that was a typo, and you meant 10 sets of 10, fair enough, i appoligise, but that sentence above ^^ clearly states 1 set of 10 reps, which = 10 reps in 10 Minutes..
Edit, your highlight even shows that i stated 10 reps in 10 Minutes, that's 10 reps, 1 set...
2nd Edit, as posts came in as i was typing this.....
If you meant 1 set of every excersice for 10 reps... Then fair enough, 10 reps of all in 10 minutes is fine... I only read the sentence, which stated 1 set of 10. In strength training, that would normally mean "1 set of 10 reps of excersie a".
So to clarify, if it's all 10 excerises, done for 1 set of 10 rep, and NOT 1 set of 10 reps on (Lets say squat), then Fair enough, and i appologise for the mis-understanding0 -
Not every strength training routine need follow the conventional route. Some are just not cut out for weight lifting in a gym Yes, strength training is hard.
The results are either worth it to us or not. Nothing good in life comes pain free, and this same principle applies to those immersed in weight lifting with zero cardio. We see value in reaching fitness potential or not.
To become the fittest version of ourselves, it takes both cardio and strength training coupled with sound nutrition. If weight lifting is not your thing, continue with calisthenic type exercises.
That's something, and 50% of something beats 100% of nothing.
They key is do something!
The harder and smarter we work, the better results we earn if it's worth it to us.
To each his own...0 -
I don't think it's the weight or the intensity. I just don't physically handle long strength workouts for some reason (ignoring the boredom and disinterest). Probably has to do with reactive blood pressure from both physical and mental stress? This kind of dull headache I only used to get when I had hypertension and my blood pressure was high.
Disagree - I do think it's the weight and intensity.
Just like "heavy lifting" has the hidden caveat "heavy lifting for you" then the weight and intensity was too heavy and intense for you right now.
Your BP issues may mean that 10 reps in a quick lifting style isn't the right rep range for you. It may mean you have to drop the reps and increase recovery between sets to keep your BP down.
"Find what works for you" might be a modified training routine.
Just a thought.
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Because I am adding weight training to my fitness routine, not in place of it, I do a reduced workout, heavy weights, smaller sets, once a week. Stop well before the point I would puke. It feels pretty good afterward. I just think of it as support for the other stuff I do - I am lifting to be better at running and yoga, not to be better at lifting.
I do think you went too much too soon too fast. I started, actually, with just 5 heavy deadlifts a week. Then grew it from there.
The Fiance, weights are all he really likes to do so he uses them for everything, some heavy workouts and some lighter with more repetitions. My mom, all she does is walk everywhere, and is healthy at 75. It's not some sort of competition, just life.
I do agree you should do what you love. I am never getting on a bike for exercise.
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Forgive me if I'm stating the obvious, but weight lifting can cause a temporary and sometimes dramatic increase in blood pressure (depending on how much you lift). That dull headache shouldn't be ignored. Sounds to me like you need to ramp up even more slowly than most.0
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amusedmonkey wrote: »CarlKRobbo wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »What I did wasn't too extreme, it was just too many exercises at once when I'm only used to 1-2. I followed this which is a beginner routine:
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/rudy6.htm
Did 4 sets of 10 with the higher end of the recommended weights. I admit I went a bit higher on the squats with 15 kg dumbbells (a total of 30 kg).
I don't think it's the weight or the intensity. I just don't physically handle long strength workouts for some reason (ignoring the boredom and disinterest). Probably has to do with reactive blood pressure from both physical and mental stress? This kind of dull headache I only used to get when I had hypertension and my blood pressure was high.
It is the weight and intensity!
Start again, but this time, do 1 set of 10 with the lower end of the recommended weights. Do that 3 times this week and next, then see about adding a bit of weight or another set.
See, I'm not a total beginner. I've been doing bodyweight for the past two years (squats, lunges, pushups, one legged glute bridges, band assisted pullups and such) but broke the exercises apart to where I did only one or two at a time. I chose the weight after using the first set as a test set. I already have some basic strength and could have gone even higher.
1 set of 10 might have actually been better since it would have taken me 10 or so minutes, before my body and mind start falling apart.
See, i personally see the last line here as an big issue - 10 reps in 10 Minutes is very slow. I don't know many people who would take that long.
I do strength training, and the heavy version of that, 1 set of 10 will take me 45 Seconds, 60 max if it's VERY heavy\hard. Even when i go heavy (3 reps), my REST periods TOTAL 10 Minutes....
Reading what you've said, you went from 1/2 excercises to 10. That's a big jump regardless of weight\reps. anyone who increases volume will struggle, as have i, with 6 years strength training under my belt (Albeit, i'm only adding more reps to my training).
If you split that program in half (50/50 it with Upper\Lower), then you'd adapt better.
Finally, you said earlier, you spent a few weeks trying strength training previously. On average, it takes around about 6 weeks for the human body to adapt to new demands, you need to give it more than a few weeks
10 reps of 10 exercises (a total of 100 reps) in 10 minutes. It's not that slow.
Because my focus is on cycling, in the evenings I ride the trainer or outside for about an hour ... or I go for a brisk 3 km walk on my rest (from cycling) days. Then about 2-3 days a week I also spend about 20 minutes doing upper body and core work.
That seems to give me what I need at this point.
Because your focus is on running, why not do something similar?
What I usually do was actually giving me what I need, a slow and steady but noticeable improvement in strength (how many 200+ pound women can say they can do a regular pushup or an assisted pullup?). I would wake up 6 days a week, do 5-10 minutes of bodyweight strength to get it out of the way (each exercise would be repeated 1-2 times a week depending on what I felt like doing), then go on with my day. For some reason, after reading a lot of posts swearing by structured longer programs and loving them I decided to give them a try again. It wasn't smart of me because I know I don't enjoy that and that my goals aren't really strength focused, so structured long strength wouldn't have the continuity without the enjoyment or the motivation to do them. What I actually forgot is how poopy and hungry they made me feel in the past.
If I split these dumbbell exercises into shorter workouts (by doing fewer sets) and do them for a few months it might be just what I need for a change of pace and to hit different muscles before I go back to my good old usual or decide to pursue this further in addition to body weight (which fits perfectly with what I want in terms of strength).1 -
If I got a new client who's untrained or coming back after a long layoff, we don't do more than 2 sets. And it's only one exercise per body part at a very modest weight. This way I can see if they are doing it correctly and I can actually gauge what their strengths and weaknesses are.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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I don't think the OP realizes the multitude of benefits basic strength training gives. It's not just about aesthetics or strength, it's basic health and fitness.
Your bones benefit from resistance training. you are less likelt to be injured with a stronget muscle system. You struggled to go from a wall push up to a normal push up. If you can run 5 miles but do only 1 pushup, you are not fit. You would giggle at a fat power lifter who couldn't run a quarter of a mile, but it's the same situation.
Health and fitness are a balance. It's one thing to not want to get under a barbell, but to not even have the strength or endurance for basic bodyweight resistance is an issue and is an extreme imbalance. Health is more than weight and cardio ability.1 -
I don't think the OP realizes the multitude of benefits basic strength training gives. It's not just about aesthetics or strength, it's basic health and fitness.
Your bones benefit from resistance training. you are less likelt to be injured with a stronget muscle system. You struggled to go from a wall push up to a normal push up. If you can run 5 miles but do only 1 pushup, you are not fit. You would giggle at a fat power lifter who couldn't run a quarter of a mile, but it's the same situation.
Health and fitness are a balance. It's one thing to not want to get under a barbell, but to not even have the strength or endurance for basic bodyweight resistance is an issue and is an extreme imbalance. Health is more than weight and cardio ability.
Except that she's been doing body weight training for the last two years...
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goldthistime wrote: »I don't think the OP realizes the multitude of benefits basic strength training gives. It's not just about aesthetics or strength, it's basic health and fitness.
Your bones benefit from resistance training. you are less likelt to be injured with a stronget muscle system. You struggled to go from a wall push up to a normal push up. If you can run 5 miles but do only 1 pushup, you are not fit. You would giggle at a fat power lifter who couldn't run a quarter of a mile, but it's the same situation.
Health and fitness are a balance. It's one thing to not want to get under a barbell, but to not even have the strength or endurance for basic bodyweight resistance is an issue and is an extreme imbalance. Health is more than weight and cardio ability.
Except that she's been doing body weight training for the last two years...
to progress to a real pushup per the OP.1 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »CarlKRobbo wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »What I did wasn't too extreme, it was just too many exercises at once when I'm only used to 1-2. I followed this which is a beginner routine:
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/rudy6.htm
Did 4 sets of 10 with the higher end of the recommended weights. I admit I went a bit higher on the squats with 15 kg dumbbells (a total of 30 kg).
I don't think it's the weight or the intensity. I just don't physically handle long strength workouts for some reason (ignoring the boredom and disinterest). Probably has to do with reactive blood pressure from both physical and mental stress? This kind of dull headache I only used to get when I had hypertension and my blood pressure was high.
It is the weight and intensity!
Start again, but this time, do 1 set of 10 with the lower end of the recommended weights. Do that 3 times this week and next, then see about adding a bit of weight or another set.
See, I'm not a total beginner. I've been doing bodyweight for the past two years (squats, lunges, pushups, one legged glute bridges, band assisted pullups and such) but broke the exercises apart to where I did only one or two at a time. I chose the weight after using the first set as a test set. I already have some basic strength and could have gone even higher.
1 set of 10 might have actually been better since it would have taken me 10 or so minutes, before my body and mind start falling apart.
See, i personally see the last line here as an big issue - 10 reps in 10 Minutes is very slow. I don't know many people who would take that long.
I do strength training, and the heavy version of that, 1 set of 10 will take me 45 Seconds, 60 max if it's VERY heavy\hard. Even when i go heavy (3 reps), my REST periods TOTAL 10 Minutes....
Reading what you've said, you went from 1/2 excercises to 10. That's a big jump regardless of weight\reps. anyone who increases volume will struggle, as have i, with 6 years strength training under my belt (Albeit, i'm only adding more reps to my training).
If you split that program in half (50/50 it with Upper\Lower), then you'd adapt better.
Finally, you said earlier, you spent a few weeks trying strength training previously. On average, it takes around about 6 weeks for the human body to adapt to new demands, you need to give it more than a few weeks
10 reps of 10 exercises (a total of 100 reps) in 10 minutes. It's not that slow.
Because my focus is on cycling, in the evenings I ride the trainer or outside for about an hour ... or I go for a brisk 3 km walk on my rest (from cycling) days. Then about 2-3 days a week I also spend about 20 minutes doing upper body and core work.
That seems to give me what I need at this point.
Because your focus is on running, why not do something similar?
What I usually do was actually giving me what I need, a slow and steady but noticeable improvement in strength (how many 200+ pound women can say they can do a regular pushup or an assisted pullup?). I would wake up 6 days a week, do 5-10 minutes of bodyweight strength to get it out of the way (each exercise would be repeated 1-2 times a week depending on what I felt like doing), then go on with my day. For some reason, after reading a lot of posts swearing by structured longer programs and loving them I decided to give them a try again. It wasn't smart of me because I know I don't enjoy that and that my goals aren't really strength focused, so structured long strength wouldn't have the continuity without the enjoyment or the motivation to do them. What I actually forgot is how poopy and hungry they made me feel in the past.
If I split these dumbbell exercises into shorter workouts (by doing fewer sets) and do them for a few months it might be just what I need for a change of pace and to hit different muscles before I go back to my good old usual.
You do realize the bodyweight training you've been doing IS strength training? And that you could have raised the intensity and duration of those exercises, just as easily as you can lower the intensity and duration of using dumbells? Your issue is with intensity not the mode of training.1 -
goldthistime wrote: »I don't think the OP realizes the multitude of benefits basic strength training gives. It's not just about aesthetics or strength, it's basic health and fitness.
Your bones benefit from resistance training. you are less likelt to be injured with a stronget muscle system. You struggled to go from a wall push up to a normal push up. If you can run 5 miles but do only 1 pushup, you are not fit. You would giggle at a fat power lifter who couldn't run a quarter of a mile, but it's the same situation.
Health and fitness are a balance. It's one thing to not want to get under a barbell, but to not even have the strength or endurance for basic bodyweight resistance is an issue and is an extreme imbalance. Health is more than weight and cardio ability.
Except that she's been doing body weight training for the last two years...
to progress to a real pushup per the OP.
Gotchya. This is meant as a motivational speech then I assume. The words "extreme imbalance" seemed more critical than necessary, but perhaps I was just being a sensitive flower on behalf of the OP.
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goldthistime wrote: »I don't think the OP realizes the multitude of benefits basic strength training gives. It's not just about aesthetics or strength, it's basic health and fitness.
Your bones benefit from resistance training. you are less likelt to be injured with a stronget muscle system. You struggled to go from a wall push up to a normal push up. If you can run 5 miles but do only 1 pushup, you are not fit. You would giggle at a fat power lifter who couldn't run a quarter of a mile, but it's the same situation.
Health and fitness are a balance. It's one thing to not want to get under a barbell, but to not even have the strength or endurance for basic bodyweight resistance is an issue and is an extreme imbalance. Health is more than weight and cardio ability.
Except that she's been doing body weight training for the last two years...
to progress to a real pushup per the OP.
This. If you've been bodyweight training for two years and can barely do a pushup, you need a different program.2 -
goldthistime wrote: »goldthistime wrote: »I don't think the OP realizes the multitude of benefits basic strength training gives. It's not just about aesthetics or strength, it's basic health and fitness.
Your bones benefit from resistance training. you are less likelt to be injured with a stronget muscle system. You struggled to go from a wall push up to a normal push up. If you can run 5 miles but do only 1 pushup, you are not fit. You would giggle at a fat power lifter who couldn't run a quarter of a mile, but it's the same situation.
Health and fitness are a balance. It's one thing to not want to get under a barbell, but to not even have the strength or endurance for basic bodyweight resistance is an issue and is an extreme imbalance. Health is more than weight and cardio ability.
Except that she's been doing body weight training for the last two years...
to progress to a real pushup per the OP.
Gotchya. This is meant as a motivational speech then I assume. The words "extreme imbalance" seemed more critical than necessary, but perhaps I was just being a sensitive flower on behalf of the OP.
My intention wasn't to shame the OP on their abilities, but more to point out that the way the OP is approaching strength training implies that there is a lack of structure and progression. A beginner should not experience the level of actual pain OP is reporting, no one should.
DOMS being one thing, that level of discomfort during a workout is different. OP seems to flit from not overloading enough to see results (pushups) to overdoing it to the point of possible harm (per the given anecdotal evidence). This isn't what strength training is about, it's about reasonable pacing to see benefits without injury. It shouldn't always be overly easy, but it shouldn't be physically daunting for a novice, either.2 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »What I did wasn't too extreme, it was just too many exercises at once when I'm only used to 1-2. I followed this which is a beginner routine:
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/rudy6.htm
Did 4 sets of 10 with the higher end of the recommended weights. I admit I went a bit higher on the squats with 15 kg dumbbells (a total of 30 kg).
I don't think it's the weight or the intensity. I just don't physically handle long strength workouts for some reason (ignoring the boredom and disinterest). Probably has to do with reactive blood pressure from both physical and mental stress? This kind of dull headache I only used to get when I had hypertension and my blood pressure was high.
You did too much too soon for someone not used to resistance work. Anyone starting a new program too agreasively for thir level of fitness will experience what you did.0 -
I'm kind of in the same boat as OP.
Background: I've been doing SL 5x5 for almost 4 months now. I've had my form checked, I got the right shoes and equipment, and I've been doing it long enough that extreme soreness is a thing of the past. I have not injured myself at all, and I can physically do things that I would not have thought possible, like chin-ups or squatting my body weight.
All that said: I really, truly hate it. It's a chore to go in the garage 3 days a week and do the routine. I feel no sense of accomplishment from moving up in weights, and I was so sure that I would at the beginning. The only reason I'm sticking it out is b/c of the health and hormonal benefits, and I *suppose* being trim and somewhat athletic looking is how I'm intended to look, as a man.
On the other hand, running is the absolute highlight of my life at this point, and riding my bike comes in a close second. I've just gotten to the end of C25K, and I am registered for several events next month. Sometimes I forget that I ran yesterday and then get sad when I remember that I shouldn't run today. I ran this morning through the cool mist and felt Alive.
I guess my point is that as important as strength training is, some people Just Don't Like It(R).
Have you tried doing a split? I hate full body training, but love splits.
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