About Love. And all that stuff.
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This was in my head the whole time i was reading this thread!0 -
Deep0
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I didn't believe in divorce either so I tried to cope. she left me as ive told you and so its out of my hands now. I will say this, your NEEDS should be the next priority in your life behind your kids! I went through 19 years of this and now that im past it and she has left 4 months ago, I wish I had went ahead and left years ago to address my needs! im a giant man (6'6" 240lbs) and dammit I have emotional NEEDS too! lol stay as strong as you can but don't neglect yourself what you desire to accommodate someone else..Louise1491 wrote: »Sounds like my last relationship. Lack of affection/contact.
Thats my marraige, right now. He is content with minimal contact (physical and emotional) and I NEED way more than he is giving. I am shown affection only when he wants to have sex...which isnt very often. Earlier in our relationship I compromised and was OK with sex being the main (nearly only) form of affection I was shown - mainly because it happened much more frequently. I wish that I would have been more cognizant of the true lack of affection earlier.
Other than the lack of affection....we have a nice life and I am generally happy.
I don't believe in divorce, so I have settled with the fact that I will be in a generally affection less marraige for the rest of my life (Im 33)...and that sucks.
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DetroitDarin wrote: »Within an adult man-woman relationship: If love is not really-good, it's not love. My favourite quote about love - and this might cost my man-card - but my favourite line is from the movie Midnight in Paris - this scene.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YEstLmzyvI
Within love - within relationships - the number one killer is compromise. Compromise ensures neither the man nor the woman get what they need - they settle for less. In the little aspects that's fine - things like where to eat dinner, what colour to pain the living room, etc. But in the bigger aspects compromise leads only to hurt and loneliness and unfulfilled wants and needs. Compromise says "Oh..I know you really enjoy a snuggle, but - that's not really me, so...you can just be next to me and hug this pillow okay?" or "I really don't like to hold your hand, so...how about I hold your hand for just the next hour?" - crap like that.
Love therefore should be stupidly-easy and should be the baseline for a successful relationship. Love should be the non-negotiable.
Signs the relationship is not love-based? If either of you ever say stuff like "...after everything I've done for you! THIS is how you treat me?"
Nope. that's not love. Love isn't selfish nor does love keep score.
If either says "Well, if you love me, you will (insert chore or task)!"
Love isn't tranasaction-based - love (affection, sex, etc) is not a currency.
Love is not "Do this to show me you love me" - love is "Because I love you I can't help but be a certain way around you; because I love you of course I am kind and thoughtful - but being kind and thoughtful is not necessarily love.
What do you think? I think I'm right - but I could be full of crap because that happens too - sometimes on a road trip where I have to literally spring out into the woods...search the forum for THAT story...
I have to wholeheartedly agree with what you wrote. Compromise is HUGE in a relationship and love should be selfless. It's about not just being happy but making the other person happy as well. It's a balance that a lot of couples have a difficult time doing, I think.
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I agree with you.0
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Tomk652015 wrote: »is love different depending on the object? are there varying definitions of love? or don't i understand whats disturbed you?
*edit* maybe so. have to think about that.
Absolutely manifested differently - but is it the same substance? I suppose to frame the discussion we'd have to agree one terms.
What is love? (baby don't hurt me)
People can more-easily describe love than define it. We talk about the symptoms of love, but the symptoms are not love.
Love is a verb but verbs are not love. Love is a noun too - but nothing tangible is love.
Can we weight it? No. But we can probably measure love - at least measure the quantity love love by looking at the extent the symptoms are shown, maybe.
Do I love my kids differently than my lover? Absolutely. Just one difference is this: Love between a man and a woman is generally inherently selfish; love for kids should not be. But often is. But shouldn't be.
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With kids your love should definitely be selfless and unconditional. And also eventually let them go to move on and grow up and form their own relationships. But, you are there if they need you. With your partner love can last in an intimate form forever. You go through challenges together, supporting each other. And enjoy the good moments together. Building shared memories adds to the love to draw on during those challenging times. Definitely kindness, thoughtfulness, empathy are very important. Also having insight together and into one another's challenges or struggles. And shared respect, support for each other's goals, passions, talents, abilities.0
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To properly salvage a relationship: Make her tacos. Eat the tacos with her. Smile at each other. Bang it out.3
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Why would she want to be tacos?
otherwise - the eating tacos and bang-it-out? Good advice.0 -
I think love is like this -
When love exists between a man and woman both parties will absolutely unconsciously do good towards and for the other person. People will act and communicate and all that without even thinking because doing those things is at the core of their very being. It's who they are - not what they do. But what they do and express is the result of who they are. Make any sense?5 -
DetroitDarin wrote: »I think love is like this -
When love exists between a man and woman both parties will absolutely unconsciously do good towards and for the other person. People will act and communicate and all that without even thinking because doing those things is at the core of their very being. It's who they are - not what they do. But what they do and express is the result of who they are. Make any sense?
I think this is perfect.2 -
DetroitDarin wrote: »I think love is like this -
When love exists between a man and woman both parties will absolutely unconsciously do good towards and for the other person. People will act and communicate and all that without even thinking because doing those things is at the core of their very being. It's who they are - not what they do. But what they do and express is the result of who they are. Make any sense?
Yes it makes sense.
I'm still not convinced that it can last forever though. But who knows.0 -
I guess we'd have to define forever. If forever is 'until the next chapter' or 'as long as you walk that path'? Yeah...I dunno either. Right now I'd love not-forever...just for....for awhile. Ya know?0
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DetroitDarin wrote: »I guess we'd have to define forever. If forever is 'until the next chapter' or 'as long as you walk that path'? Yeah...I dunno either. Right now I'd love not-forever...just for....for awhile. Ya know?
Well I suppose it's easier to have short term love for sure. But I hear you!1 -
To make it even more confusing, love isn't the same for you as it is for me or the next to person to post.
I don't like these conversations because it can be so subjective. BUT they are great topics!
My thoughts are this. You don't compromise in hopes of strengthening your love. It's the way you love someone which makes the compromise less of one. It's not even known as such anymore.
And it sounds like compromise is being confused for sacrifice. You should never have to sacrifice your values, your wants and needs and your own being, in hopes that it's enough for your partner to love you more. Sacrifices are what we make for our children or for someone in a burning building. Your relationship is NOT a burning building. If it is, it's no longer a relationship.
@Francl27 there's no real time line on it. Forever is only a term used to describe beyond our comprehension. If your love is real from the jump, then you can probably bet that it's not going anywhere. Infidelity or maybe even breaking the law would be the exception, but even then, the love doesn't fade. You still love the person, but you need to love and respect yourself first.
At the end of it all, if you're in a relationship and you can still love yourself and who you are now compared to the beginning, then your love for your partner can last. Because it's clear that you didn't have to sacrifice any part of your being to make them happy...7 -
Theres a difference between compromising on the little things (whats for dinner) and the big things (communication styles, emotional or physical needs, etc).
For 20 years, I gave and gave and gave and got NOTHING in return. And lost myself during all of it. Finally grew some proverbial balls, and left.
I've never been happier. I'm with a man I adore, and who adores me. Our needs and wants are in line and compliment each other, and we both want whats best for THE OTHER. Both of us are antisocial as.sholes and yet... are perfect together. He humors me and goes to what few parties and events I go to with my friends (except one, cause he HATES my friends boyfriend), and i sit and listen to him drone on about politics. its a give and take, but neither one gives more than they have, and neither one MINDS doing what we do for the other. It makes us each happy to make the other happy.
For example.... Paul is NOT a halloween person. Halloween for me starts in mid july LOLOL. he's building me a demons lair next weekend that will be half buried in my front yard. Not because I asked him to, but because he saw the project online somewhere knew I would love it, and figured I *probably* had everything I needed for him to do it (darn skippy I do! LOL). That project will likely take a day at LEAST. All because it makes me happy.
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DetroitDarin wrote: »I think love is like this -
When love exists between a man and woman both parties will absolutely unconsciously do good towards and for the other person. People will act and communicate and all that without even thinking because doing those things is at the core of their very being. It's who they are - not what they do. But what they do and express is the result of who they are. Make any sense?
Yes it makes sense.
I'm still not convinced that it can last forever though. But who knows.
In many cases it doesn't (and it's always ok to move on). I have been in love with my husband for 18 years. It's hard to imagine not loving him after all these years. But, it doesn't really matter. I appreciate our lives together in the past and present. I will always value that, even if things somehow changed in the future.1 -
BinaryPulsar wrote: »DetroitDarin wrote: »I think love is like this -
When love exists between a man and woman both parties will absolutely unconsciously do good towards and for the other person. People will act and communicate and all that without even thinking because doing those things is at the core of their very being. It's who they are - not what they do. But what they do and express is the result of who they are. Make any sense?
Yes it makes sense.
I'm still not convinced that it can last forever though. But who knows.
In many cases it doesn't (and it's always ok to move on). I have been in love with my husband for 18 years. It's hard to imagine not loving him after all these years. But, it doesn't really matter. I appreciate our lives together in the past and present. I will always value that, even if things somehow changed in the future.
That's the thing for me... I see all those people on FB who celebrate their 10th/16th/whatever anniversary and post on how lucky they are.. and I just get jealous! So I don't know if I just changed too much or what... or if I'm just unable to love someone so long, or if it just wasn't really love or the right person? I just wish I could feel that again...1 -
DetroitDarin wrote: »Within an adult man-woman relationship: If love is not really-good, it's not love. My favourite quote about love - and this might cost my man-card - but my favourite line is from the movie Midnight in Paris - this scene.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YEstLmzyvI
Within love - within relationships - the number one killer is compromise. Compromise ensures neither the man nor the woman get what they need - they settle for less. In the little aspects that's fine - things like where to eat dinner, what colour to pain the living room, etc. But in the bigger aspects compromise leads only to hurt and loneliness and unfulfilled wants and needs. Compromise says "Oh..I know you really enjoy a snuggle, but - that's not really me, so...you can just be next to me and hug this pillow okay?" or "I really don't like to hold your hand, so...how about I hold your hand for just the next hour?" - crap like that.
Love therefore should be stupidly-easy and should be the baseline for a successful relationship. Love should be the non-negotiable.
Signs the relationship is not love-based? If either of you ever say stuff like "...after everything I've done for you! THIS is how you treat me?"
Nope. that's not love. Love isn't selfish nor does love keep score.
If either says "Well, if you love me, you will (insert chore or task)!"
Love isn't tranasaction-based - love (affection, sex, etc) is not a currency.
Love is not "Do this to show me you love me" - love is "Because I love you I can't help but be a certain way around you; because I love you of course I am kind and thoughtful - but being kind and thoughtful is not necessarily love.
What do you think? I think I'm right - but I could be full of crap because that happens too - sometimes on a road trip where I have to literally spring out into the woods...search the forum for THAT story...DetroitDarin wrote: »Within an adult man-woman relationship: If love is not really-good, it's not love. My favourite quote about love - and this might cost my man-card - but my favourite line is from the movie Midnight in Paris - this scene.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YEstLmzyvI
Within love - within relationships - the number one killer is compromise. Compromise ensures neither the man nor the woman get what they need - they settle for less. In the little aspects that's fine - things like where to eat dinner, what colour to pain the living room, etc. But in the bigger aspects compromise leads only to hurt and loneliness and unfulfilled wants and needs. Compromise says "Oh..I know you really enjoy a snuggle, but - that's not really me, so...you can just be next to me and hug this pillow okay?" or "I really don't like to hold your hand, so...how about I hold your hand for just the next hour?" - crap like that.
Love therefore should be stupidly-easy and should be the baseline for a successful relationship. Love should be the non-negotiable.
Signs the relationship is not love-based? If either of you ever say stuff like "...after everything I've done for you! THIS is how you treat me?"
Nope. that's not love. Love isn't selfish nor does love keep score.
If either says "Well, if you love me, you will (insert chore or task)!"
Love isn't tranasaction-based - love (affection, sex, etc) is not a currency.
Love is not "Do this to show me you love me" - love is "Because I love you I can't help but be a certain way around you; because I love you of course I am kind and thoughtful - but being kind and thoughtful is not necessarily love.
What do you think? I think I'm right - but I could be full of crap because that happens too - sometimes on a road trip where I have to literally spring out into the woods...search the forum for THAT story...
I have to say, I don't think you can apply these rules to love. Or any rules, really, because each relationship has a different dynamic. Relationships are about compromise. My husband plays football. I don't enjoy watching football but I go and watch because I love him and it makes him happy. Does it mean I love him less because we don't enjoy all of the same things or agree on everything?
I understand you are talking mainly about compromising on a partner for fear of being single (or not divorcing a partner for the same reason). But it does seem that you are demonizing compromise when no partnership can operate without it. No one is a perfect fit. You will never have exactly the same tastes and opinions on everything as someone else and that's actually healthy.
Recently there have been a lot of threads about people who have been denied sex/intimacy in their relationship. And even some people who admit to withholding sex from their spouses. I do completely agree with you that withholding sex/affection is emotional abuse and not something that can be compromised on at all.2 -
DetroitDarin wrote: »
I over-think a lot. Being inside my brain can be tiring. Thanks for reading - and your spot-on comments, Louise. 
Except you used the dreaded C-word. I think the best relationships - nobody has to compromise anything because we naturally love exactly what the other person offers. Make sense?
I agree with this. I'm just not sure that most of us will actually have that kind of love. I know that I haven't. But I've been in love with people that I loved completely, faults and all... just never got to pursue those relationships... so I can't tell you how it would have ended (and it really broke my heart each time). And unfortunately, my current relationship is not one of those.
I'd wager that the probability that two people feel that strongly for each other is very slim. And that's why a lot of long term married people end up unhappy, IMO... or have to compromise a lot to make it work... or they go from relationship to relationship hoping for 'the one' but are unlikely to find it. Because it's extremely rare.
Those old couples who still love each other after 40 years are extremely lucky, I think.
For the longest time I thought the same way. I didn't date for 6 years because I wasn't convinced love wasn't just something we has emotional creatures made up in our head and it's all psychological. Prior to that I've been in my share of relationships that lasted years, kept waiting for something, anything...that signaled this was "it." Clearly that never came because all those relationships ended because I just wasn't in love and couldn't see a future with them.
I work in a field where I get to meet lots of people and I've spoken to many couples who've been married over 50 years and still just as in love as when they first met. Some were fortunate to meet their love young and others, took them later in life. But what I took away from their stories was that they both understood that love takes work, communication from both partners, and that relationship is a partnership. Plus, they all said they married their best friend.
About 8 months ago I unexpectedly met my current boyfriend and well, my feelings on love has changed.1 -
BinaryPulsar wrote: »DetroitDarin wrote: »I think love is like this -
When love exists between a man and woman both parties will absolutely unconsciously do good towards and for the other person. People will act and communicate and all that without even thinking because doing those things is at the core of their very being. It's who they are - not what they do. But what they do and express is the result of who they are. Make any sense?
Yes it makes sense.
I'm still not convinced that it can last forever though. But who knows.
In many cases it doesn't (and it's always ok to move on). I have been in love with my husband for 18 years. It's hard to imagine not loving him after all these years. But, it doesn't really matter. I appreciate our lives together in the past and present. I will always value that, even if things somehow changed in the future.
That's the thing for me... I see all those people on FB who celebrate their 10th/16th/whatever anniversary and post on how lucky they are.. and I just get jealous! So I don't know if I just changed too much or what... or if I'm just unable to love someone so long, or if it just wasn't really love or the right person? I just wish I could feel that again...
It's definitely not because there is anything wrong with you. And it probably was really love. I don't know why some relationships work out longer term and others don't. But probably just depends on how good of a match they are together. If you grow together or grow apart. And there isn't anything wrong with that. And some people don't want to be in long monogamous relationships (from listening to people talk), and that's ok too. But, I hope you find what you want and will bring happiness. Thanks for opening up. You definitely aren't alone in these thoughts and feelings. I see/hear people talk about it.0 -
Sorry, love isn't about always wanting to be happy and living some bliss.
I've told my wife 100's of times that I love her but that doesn't mean in every step of that I've liked her. We have had some VERY low low's and some amazing highs. What makes it love is, she is the one I want to have both of those experiences with. It is not emotional though, because you will have the gamete of emotions.
Affections can come and go (pun intended), but love still remains. It is not physical, but it will manifest itself in wanting to be physical often.
Love is a commitment to allow all of the highs and lows, good and bad, passion and passiveness, all of that be what it is with the person BECAUSE it is part of them. And you love them for who they are.
Of course you settle because NO ONE is the best of everything. Maybe they are an amazing person and treat you like the world, but the sex life isn't as passionate as that one person you dated years ago (but treated you like crap). Maybe they aren't very good at emotional connection but everything else is AMAZING.
It is sad how many times I hear couples talk about everything their spouse isn't, when truly being blessed with someone is loving them for everything they are.6 -
Sorry, love it's about always wanting to be happy and living some bliss.
I've told my wife 100's of times that I love her but that doesn't mean in every step of that I've liked her. We have had some VERY low low's and some amazing highs. What makes it love is, she is the one I want to have both of those experiences with. It is not emotional though, because you will have the gamete of emotions.
Affections can come and go (pun intended), but love still remains. It is not physical, but it will manifest itself in wanting to be physical often.
Love is a commitment to allow all of the highs and lows, good and bad, passion and passiveness, all of that be what it is with the person BECAUSE it is part of them. And you love them for who they are.
Of course you settle because NO ONE is the best of everything. Maybe they are an amazing person and treat you like the world, but the sex life isn't as passionate as that one person you dated years ago (but treated you like crap). Maybe they aren't very good at emotional connection but everything else is AMAZING.
It is sad how many times I hear couples talk about everything their spouse isn't, when truly being blessed with someone is loving them for everything they are.
All of this. Love this, so accurate for me and my husband
apart from the passion bit...pleanty of passion here
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Sorry, love isn't about always wanting to be happy and living some bliss.
I've told my wife 100's of times that I love her but that doesn't mean in every step of that I've liked her. We have had some VERY low low's and some amazing highs. What makes it love is, she is the one I want to have both of those experiences with. It is not emotional though, because you will have the gamete of emotions.
Affections can come and go (pun intended), but love still remains. It is not physical, but it will manifest itself in wanting to be physical often.
Love is a commitment to allow all of the highs and lows, good and bad, passion and passiveness, all of that be what it is with the person BECAUSE it is part of them. And you love them for who they are.
Of course you settle because NO ONE is the best of everything. Maybe they are an amazing person and treat you like the world, but the sex life isn't as passionate as that one person you dated years ago (but treated you like crap). Maybe they aren't very good at emotional connection but everything else is AMAZING.
It is sad how many times I hear couples talk about everything their spouse isn't, when truly being blessed with someone is loving them for everything they are.
But again, love is not something you can force to feel. You're saying that love remains. I'm just saying it's not always the case. And being with someone who loves you when you don't feel the same way in return doesn't make you feel 'blessed'. It makes you feel guilty because you can't return it.1 -
But again, love is not something you can force to feel. You're saying that love remains. I'm just saying it's not always the case. And being with someone who loves you when you don't feel the same way in return doesn't make you feel 'blessed'. It makes you feel guilty because you can't return it.
I understand. I just believe that if you focus on feeling in love, as you mention above, you will just be on a road of serial monogamy looking for the next person to make you feel it when that feeling starts to fade...and it always fades...and even disappears at time. That is when love - commitment and caring for a person - becomes more real.
Simply a different perspective and focus for me.
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@DetroitDarin , I think you are single. I await with bated breath your advice on parenting.1
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Different people are going to have different experiences. We each can understand and have insight into and learn from our own experiences. People can share their experience and what they have learned. We can share and listen. Not expect everyone to have the same experiences. I have insight into my own experiences and others into theirs. And it's interesting to share and hear sometimes. What works for one, is different for another. What one wants is different from another. And different people might even describe a similar experience differently. Internet communication is hard enough to understand. But, I always appreciate when people open up about things.0
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Are you single? Lol just kidding but seriously I love this post And following threads. Add me and I will chat more on the subject 0
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My all time favorite quote from a movie about love, and it is so fitting for my life and I think many of us:
"People call these things imperfections, but they're not, aw that's the good stuff. And then we get to choose who we let in to our weird little worlds. You're not perfect, sport. And let me save you in suspense. This girl you met, she isn't perfect either. But the question is: whether or not you're perfect for each other. That's the whole deal. That's what it's about."
- Good Will Hunting4
https://youtu.be/IGYwf7e_cr8
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