Eating in deficiency no longer viable??
Replies
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http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/the-full-diet-break.html/
^ Lyle McDonald's take on it.
Lyle covers the same Physiological Reasons in his video but I believe there he mentioned several times that diet breaks are most beneficial when one is fairly close to goal, like the OP.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6846ZTBu08k&index=4&list=PLUXvX9BaxgqG9yO5XWB3gA_QshvrrcjVr
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Eating above maintenance for 24-48hr will help much faster than just shooting for maintenance. Think of it like sleeping. When you only sleep 3-4 hours a night for several days, your eventually your going to crash for 10-12 hours. Learn to listen to your body, cravings are not a matter of will-power but intuition.
Personally I have been overweight and dieted most of my life. I was morbidly obese 13 years ago at 330lbs. Then I made one change to the way I diet and lost 100lbs in 11 months and I've lost another 30lbs over the past 10+ years. That one change was having a calorie surplus one day every week. No plateaus, no extreme cravings and easy to follow.
"Specifically,
we find that that the altered leptin levels resulting from
overfeeding and underfeeding were not restored to baseline
when the participants were returned to a eucaloric diet"
*Twenty-Four-Hour Leptin Levels Respond to Cumulative
Short-Term Energy Imbalance and Predict
Subsequent Intake*
CATHERINE CHIN-CHANCE, KENNETH S. POLONSKY, AND DALE A. SCHOELLER
Department of Medicine (C.C.-C., K.S.P.), University of Chicago, Chicago, Illinois 60637; and
Department of Nutritional S
(Coleman et al, Diabetologia 42: 636-646, 1999)
During the second part of the study (the data plotted above), authors found that Leptin decreased by 20% after 12h and 65% after 36h of fasting. However after 12 h of refeeding, Leptin increased to 62% of normal and after 24h refeeding, leptin increased to 100% of normal.
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@elphie754 Just wanted to make sure you didn't forget to bring your sources.0
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sunnybeaches105 wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »RelevantGains wrote: »This is very common, There's a lot of hormonal craziness that happens with long term dieting. It looks like a diet break would work wonders for you to get everything reset.
Try to sit at maintenance or slightly above for about 2 weeks, then get back to it. You'll be glad you did! I'll see if I can fish up some articles I've read on diet breaks for you.
I disagree with eating above maintenance because she is not losing weight. You never eat above maintenance if you are not losing weight.
OP is tired, hungry and presumably not losing weight because she's struggling with and not actually eating in a deficit.
Being hangry is a good reason to have a diet break after 8 months hard work.
No, I agree with eating at maintenance (diet break), not above (refeed).
The question is whether the OP is willing to add 5 pounds for sanity or not. If she's mentally beat up from losing 80 pounds and ready to break stuff and quit, and won't panic over a few pounds, then I'd say exceed maintenance for a few weeks and then get back at it. Most likely, that 5 pounds will come off very quickly anyway. On the other hand, if she will panic over 5 pounds then she might be better off just sticking with maintenance. There isn't a "right" or "wrong" general answer here. It's what will work for the OP, and help her get back on track to finish up her weight loss and stay sane in the process. Frankly, at an 40 pounds loss I'd say a couple of weeks of IDGAF would be in order for me.
Thank you, I see where you are coming from now.
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Increase calories by 100 a day per week till sustained multiweek weight increase as seen in trending weight application or web site.
Then cut by 250 and taper down to goal while exploring maintenance type eating strategies which has not been done at -750 or -10001 -
The closer we get to goal, the slower progress becomes for all of us. Be patient. I found a web site this morning, freedieting.com It is remarkably free of woo. You might learn something from this page http://www.freedieting.com/tools/calorie_calculator.htm But you'll need to scroll down below the calculator to see the good stuff.0
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maidengirl_ wrote: »So I've been eating in deficiency for the last 8 months now. I have lost a total of 39 lbs. Started at 191 lbs and now I weigh 152 lbs. I'm 12 lbs away from my goal weight and now I am finding it extremely difficult to continue eating in deficiency. I started out eating about 1400-1500 cals per day with a net ranging from 1,100 to 1,300 with exercise. I have since upped my calorie intake to around 1600-1700 per day and I eat back about 75% of my exercise calories now because I have been feeling super hungry, irritable, and just down right tired. I drink lots of water (6 cups + per day) and eat actual food so I don't understand why this is occurring. Has anyone else experienced this with weight loss? Any tips on getting rid of the last few pounds and staying full longer? Should I consider supplements for fiber? I have practically gone into maintenance mode for over a month now and have maintained my weight because I can't figure out why I'm starving.
I'm like this now and I posted a thread asking if others had a harder time eating at a deficit after a while. Most said no. But I can attest that I can't eat below 1400 calories now. If I do, I can't sleep and I'm agitated. I think it could be related to a hormonal change due to the reduction of fat cells or leptin. Not sure though. I don't worry about it. I just make sure not to go below 1400.1 -
maidengirl_ wrote: »CattOfTheGarage wrote: »Also, have you reviewed your rate of loss? As you get nearer to your goal, you should reduce your deficit and aim for a slower rate of loss, to make sure you are getting the nutrition you need and that it is sustainable. The size of deficit that is comfortable when you are very overweight and have a lot of fat available to burn will not be comfortable when you are nearer to goal and have less fat in reserve. Try for a loss of half a pound a week (I agree a break might do you good too, and serve as a practice session for maintenance).
I experienced the food cravings earlier this year and figured my goal was too aggressive for the amount I had left to lose so I changed my loss goal from 2 lbs per week to 1.5 lbs per week so I upped my calories from 1480 to 1590 which worked for a while. I suppose I could change it to 1 pound per week. It just seemed like it was way too many calories to eat to realistically lose weight. It gave me 1790.
There you go. That 1790 isn't "too much". You surely ate more than that to gain. You think it's this huge upswing with calories, but it's not, not really.
Change your MFP setting to .5 - 1# loss rate. You've got 12# to go, so no real need to have such a huge deficit with so little to lose. Also, be almost anal about weighing your food intake.
I agree with this^^
With only 12 pounds to lose, your Goals here on MFP should be set to "Lose 1/2 pound per week." I see no reason why you shouldn't eat at Maintenance for two weeks, then start back at Lose 1/2 pound.
1790 is not that much for a young woman. I maintain at that and I'm smaller and older and don't exercise a lot.
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maidengirl_ wrote: »CattOfTheGarage wrote: »Also, have you reviewed your rate of loss? As you get nearer to your goal, you should reduce your deficit and aim for a slower rate of loss, to make sure you are getting the nutrition you need and that it is sustainable. The size of deficit that is comfortable when you are very overweight and have a lot of fat available to burn will not be comfortable when you are nearer to goal and have less fat in reserve. Try for a loss of half a pound a week (I agree a break might do you good too, and serve as a practice session for maintenance).
I experienced the food cravings earlier this year and figured my goal was too aggressive for the amount I had left to lose so I changed my loss goal from 2 lbs per week to 1.5 lbs per week so I upped my calories from 1480 to 1590 which worked for a while. I suppose I could change it to 1 pound per week. It just seemed like it was way too many calories to eat to realistically lose weight. It gave me 1790.
There you go. That 1790 isn't "too much". You surely ate more than that to gain. You think it's this huge upswing with calories, but it's not, not really.
Change your MFP setting to .5 - 1# loss rate. You've got 12# to go, so no real need to have such a huge deficit with so little to lose. Also, be almost anal about weighing your food intake.
See, this makes much more sense than increasing calories with the knowledge that weight gain will inevitably happen. I think all that is called for is a smaller deficit, because if the OP has lost that much weight she much be fairly accurate with CICO.1 -
Thank you all for your responses! I will continue eating at maintenance until my body is physically ready to eat in deficiency again. I'm in no rush to lose 12 lbs when I've come so far2
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I weigh 150 lbs with a goal of 140ish.
I would be a MESS if I tried to net between 1100-1300. I can do it a day or two but long term? No way.
If you're really and truly hungry and not just craving things. You may be netting too low.
The last bit of weight can come off very, very slow.
It takes patience. 1/2 lb per week should be your goal and there will be weeks you don't lose. It's normal.1 -
RelevantGains wrote: »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7oD_nGdtbs
http://rippedbody.com/diet-break/
Here they are. Best of luck!
This video is definitely worth watching. He explains it perfectly.
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jasmineruth wrote: »I think even above the potential hormonal changes etc having a short break from deficit has always helped me mentally refocus. Being slightly hungry all the time gets to me mentally. At a certain point I find I'm not losing because I am having an extra snack here, eating back too many exercise calories, not measuring something properly etc. Then I know it's time to spend a day, week etc. letting myself eat at maintainence honestly before I go back into a deficit.
This is me, too - after a few weeks I just start to get a bit sloppy! I plan for a two-week "maintenance break" every 8-10 weeks. It lets me loosen the reins a bit, practice my estimating skills (I still weigh and log everything, but I try to estimate my portions before weighing), and just breathe and relax a bit! Afterwards I can happily get back to a deficit with renewed focus and determination, and continue losing. (I still have 30-40lbs to lose though, and I'm sure it will get a bit harder the closer I get to my goal. For now, this works really well for me!)
I got stuck around the same weight for 4-5 weeks recently, and decided to take my break earlier than I'd planned. Once I got back to my deficit, the pounds started dropping off again - it was such a relief to see the scale move!
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jasmineruth wrote: »I think even above the potential hormonal changes etc having a short break from deficit has always helped me mentally refocus. Being slightly hungry all the time gets to me mentally. At a certain point I find I'm not losing because I am having an extra snack here, eating back too many exercise calories, not measuring something properly etc. Then I know it's time to spend a day, week etc. letting myself eat at maintainence honestly before I go back into a deficit.
This is exactly me too.
Even one day here or there can make a difference. I had an over the top foodfest yesterday, and today I feel refreshed, my belly still feels full, and I have boundless of energy. The complete opposite of yesterday morning.0 -
I like a maintenance break when that happens. Gives your hormones a break, leptin levels possibly increase...diet break!1
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maidengirl_ wrote: »So I've been eating in deficiency for the last 8 months now. I have lost a total of 39 lbs. Started at 191 lbs and now I weigh 152 lbs. I'm 12 lbs away from my goal weight and now I am finding it extremely difficult to continue eating in deficiency. I started out eating about 1400-1500 cals per day with a net ranging from 1,100 to 1,300 with exercise. I have since upped my calorie intake to around 1600-1700 per day and I eat back about 75% of my exercise calories now because I have been feeling super hungry, irritable, and just down right tired. I drink lots of water (6 cups + per day) and eat actual food so I don't understand why this is occurring. Has anyone else experienced this with weight loss? Any tips on getting rid of the last few pounds and staying full longer? Should I consider supplements for fiber? I have practically gone into maintenance mode for over a month now and have maintained my weight because I can't figure out why I'm starving.
Can you give more detail on your exercise?
Intensity?
how long you do cardio for?
Heart rate range that you train in (if available)?
Do you know your V02max (fitness level) by any chance?
I ask these things because you can plateau in fitness too. You can reach a certain fitness level and think you don't need to push it any further because you are doing the same routine all the time and think you are still improving when you are just maintaining.
I'm not saying the 2 step back 3 step forward approach wouldn't work on the dieting end of things, but I also believe that fitness level has a lot to do a healthy body weight too.
I was obese and was at a very poor fitness level.
I reached a poor fitness level and was just over weight.
I reached a fair fitness level and now I am slightly over weight (only by about 7 lbs.).
I plateaued because I could not keep my heart rate high enough in my current workouts to improve my fitness level anymore.
I have since stepped up my fitness routine to increase my fitness level and started losing again.
I would be willing to bet that when I reach a good fitness level, I will be right about in the middle of my healthy weight range.
At first I counted my calories fairly closely and that taught me how to eat healthier, but for the most part I just ballpark my calories and try to eat a well balanced healthy diet.
I don't think you have to trick your body by taking 2 steps back to take 3 steps forward. I think your body is telling you that if you want it to lose more weight you have to step up your game more.
I think total health is the best thing for long term success, and a good fitness level and healthy well balanced diet = total health.0 -
kshama2001 wrote: »http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/the-full-diet-break.html/
^ Lyle McDonald's take on it.
Lyle covers the same Physiological Reasons in his video but I believe there he mentioned several times that diet breaks are most beneficial when one is fairly close to goal, like the OP.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6846ZTBu08k&index=4&list=PLUXvX9BaxgqG9yO5XWB3gA_QshvrrcjVr
This is awesome. Intuitively, all women know this stuff. It's fascinating that he's studied it. Thank you. kshama.
ETA: He even mentions that athletic training absolutely tanks the week before your period. This is what the Chinese swimmer said in her interview at the Olympics. She started her period the night before her Olympic race and she attributed that to her sub par performance. Everyone's jaw dropped that she said it.0 -
bcalvanese wrote: »maidengirl_ wrote: »So I've been eating in deficiency for the last 8 months now. I have lost a total of 39 lbs. Started at 191 lbs and now I weigh 152 lbs. I'm 12 lbs away from my goal weight and now I am finding it extremely difficult to continue eating in deficiency. I started out eating about 1400-1500 cals per day with a net ranging from 1,100 to 1,300 with exercise. I have since upped my calorie intake to around 1600-1700 per day and I eat back about 75% of my exercise calories now because I have been feeling super hungry, irritable, and just down right tired. I drink lots of water (6 cups + per day) and eat actual food so I don't understand why this is occurring. Has anyone else experienced this with weight loss? Any tips on getting rid of the last few pounds and staying full longer? Should I consider supplements for fiber? I have practically gone into maintenance mode for over a month now and have maintained my weight because I can't figure out why I'm starving.
Can you give more detail on your exercise?
Intensity?
how long you do cardio for?
Heart rate range that you train in (if available)?
Do you know your V02max (fitness level) by any chance?
I ask these things because you can plateau in fitness too. You can reach a certain fitness level and think you don't need to push it any further because you are doing the same routine all the time and think you are still improving when you are just maintaining.
I'm not saying the 2 step back 3 step forward approach wouldn't work on the dieting end of things, but I also believe that fitness level has a lot to do a healthy body weight too.
I was obese and was at a very poor fitness level.
I reached a poor fitness level and was just over weight.
I reached a fair fitness level and now I am slightly over weight (only by about 7 lbs.).
I plateaued because I could not keep my heart rate high enough in my current workouts to improve my fitness level anymore.
I have since stepped up my fitness routine to increase my fitness level and started losing again.
I would be willing to bet that when I reach a good fitness level, I will be right about in the middle of my healthy weight range.
At first I counted my calories fairly closely and that taught me how to eat healthier, but for the most part I just ballpark my calories and try to eat a well balanced healthy diet.
I don't think you have to trick your body by taking 2 steps back to take 3 steps forward. I think your body is telling you that if you want it to lose more weight you have to step up your game more.
I think total health is the best thing for long term success, and a good fitness level and healthy well balanced diet = total health.
Can you give more detail on your exercise?
I just recently started doing cardio again after talking a month long break to focus on weight training. I exercised for 30-45 minutes a day 6 days a week. Previously I did cardio 2-3 days a week with a chest/abs/arm day. A leg day. Bodyweight training day. More cardio and a active rest day that consisted of walking. Right now, I am doing more cardio with no weights 5 days a week with one active rest day and one rest day.
Heart rate range that you train in (if available)?
I usually exercise in between 130-180 bpm
Do you know your V02max (fitness level) by any chance?
My V02 max at the beginning of July was 45. I'm sure it's much lower since then because this is when I started weight training and gave cardio a rest. I started with a V02 max of 31. I don't think I have plateaued in fitness. I change up my routine when it starts to feel easy.
Anyone reading this post, I have not plateaued with weight loss. I can still successfully lose weight but at the moment, I was eating at maintenance (around 1800 to 2000 cals a day) because I was feeling "starved" for the last 2 months at 1560 cals per day. I'm only having a problem eating in deficiency now after 8 months of eating in deficiency. After suggestions, I have since upped my calories intake to 1690 to see if eating at this level will help me not feel deprived and still lose weight.
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@maidengirl_
I personally agree with the diet breaks at maintenance or even slightly above maintenance intake levels.
I would also add that for some people as you drop weight the food types you eat and how much they control your longer term hunger can come into play more. Though the types of foods that keep people sated can vary person to person, they can often play a big role in how or how much hunger you feel.
Being that you have raised your fitness level quite a bit in both cardio and strength areas, I'll also add that for me personally the intensity of workouts greatly impacts my hunger signals, as does eating shortly before workouts if I'm going to up the intensity level. Longer less intense workouts with roughly the same calorie burn don't make me hungry as much, but really pushing the intensity level up for even a half hour can often leave me wanting to eat everything in sight when I'm done. But if I eat something as simple and small as a piece of fruit before the higher intensity stuff, the hunger afterwards isn't nearly as bad.
And bonus points for looking into this before you hit a true plateau or drove yourself nutty with hunger. For me personally after hitting a comfortable maintenance weight the first time, I was amazed at the energy difference with getting rid of that deficit.2 -
I definitely agree with taking a break; I recently took one for a variety of reasons but kept weighing myself to be sure I wasn't gaining.
One thing I haven't seen mentioned here is that as your calorie goal decreases, you may need to be more careful about your macros and the timing of them in order to keep from feeling starved. For instance, if I don't have a breakfast and lunch that's relatively high in protein, fiber, and fat, I end up hungry and out of calories at the end of the day. Because of all your hard work, you have fewer calories to play with. I realized this intellectually for a while but it took some experimenting to figure out that I can still have treats and foods with a high glycemic load, just not until the end of the day. I set to lose @ 1/2# per week, with an allowance of 1560 calories. Realistically, I lose even less than that but I'm ok with that as long as I'm losing. I'm close to my goal so even 1/2 a pound per week requires too large of a deficit.1
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