Does anyone else do HIIT?

Hello,

I've recently started don't HIIT because I find cardio quite boring and find short intervals more enjoyable.

I've read mixed things on it as a fat lot burner. Also I'd like to know if 30 minutes of interval sprints burns more calories than 30 minutes of moderate cardio.

Are there any other benefits of doing HIIT, and should I still do some cardio anyway?

Thank you
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Replies

  • rankinsect
    rankinsect Posts: 2,238 Member
    I do, and the main reason to do cardio is, as the name implies, for your cardiovascular health.
  • AnvilHead
    AnvilHead Posts: 18,343 Member
    edited September 2016
    robs_ready wrote: »
    Hello,

    I've recently started don't HIIT because I find cardio quite boring and find short intervals more enjoyable.

    I've read mixed things on it as a fat lot burner. Also I'd like to know if 30 minutes of interval sprints burns more calories than 30 minutes of moderate cardio.

    Are there any other benefits of doing HIIT, and should I still do some cardio anyway?

    Thank you

    If you can do 30 minutes of interval sprints, you're not doing HIIT; you're doing aerobic intervals (there's a difference).


    Here's an article by Lyle McDonald which talks about the calorie burn factors of steady state vs. HIIT: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/steady-state-versus-intervals-and-epoc-practical-application.html/

    He also has a more detailed two-part article about steady state vs. interval training which begins here: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/steady-state-and-interval-training-part-1.html/

    Both worth a read.
  • robs_ready
    robs_ready Posts: 1,488 Member
    rankinsect wrote: »
    I do, and the main reason to do cardio is, as the name implies, for your cardiovascular health.

    I know what Cardio is and what it's for. I'm interested in knowing me about HIIT and anaerobic exercises apart from weight training which I already do a lot of.
  • robs_ready
    robs_ready Posts: 1,488 Member
    AnvilHead wrote: »
    robs_ready wrote: »
    Hello,

    I've recently started don't HIIT because I find cardio quite boring and find short intervals more enjoyable.

    I've read mixed things on it as a fat lot burner. Also I'd like to know if 30 minutes of interval sprints burns more calories than 30 minutes of moderate cardio.

    Are there any other benefits of doing HIIT, and should I still do some cardio anyway?

    Thank you

    If you can do 30 minutes of interval sprints, you're not doing HIIT; you're doing aerobic intervals (there's a difference).


    Here's an article by Lyle McDonald which talks about the calorie burn factors of steady state vs. HIIT: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/steady-state-versus-intervals-and-epoc-practical-application.html/

    He also has a more detailed two-part article about steady state vs. interval training which begins here: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/steady-state-and-interval-training-part-1.html/

    Both worth a read.

    Thanks for this, very helpful
  • sijomial
    sijomial Posts: 19,809 Member
    I've read mixed things on it as a fat lot burner. Also I'd like to know if 30 minutes of interval sprints burns more calories than 30 minutes of moderate cardio.
    There's a lot of outlandish claims made as to "fat burning". Always keep correlation and causation in mind.....

    The highest calorie burn would be the highest intensity you could maintain for the full 30 minutes.
    As a guess your intervals and "moderate" cardio could be about the same (but could be less, or more...).
    Beware that interval training is far harder to get an accurate calorie burn estimate than steady state, the intervals and recovery periods throw off HRM estimates badly.

    Are there any other benefits of doing HIIT, and should I still do some cardio anyway?
    Depends on your goals, current capabilities, what other exercise you do.
    A lot of structured programs include both steady state and intervals. Different pros and cons.
    But as you don't like steady state then the exercise you like wins hands down.

    Beware studies that show HIIT being far superior to steady state as they tend to end the study at the point where the initial rapid improvements from HIIT tails off and steady state continues to progress.

    I'm probably in the minority in believing (genuine) HIIT and weight training is a bad mix, both create stress and need recovery time.

    For my goals as a cyclist I do a majority of steady state (which doesn't mean it's low intensity) but supplement with interval training, but typically long duration intervals with various patterns from 2:30 to 12 minute intervals.

  • AnvilHead
    AnvilHead Posts: 18,343 Member
    edited September 2016
    sijomial wrote: »
    ...I'm probably in the minority in believing (genuine) HIIT and weight training is a bad mix, both create stress and need recovery time...

    Lyle addresses that issue and recommends no more than 1-2 HIIT sessions per week due to the increased demands upon the CNS and the recovery issues it can create/exacerbate.

    As you touched upon above with your parenthetical comment, most people who think they're doing HIIT aren't really doing HIIT. For those who actually are, it's highly strenuous and very taxing. HIIT, as the name implies, is intervals done at absolute maximal effort bracketed by recovery periods. The fatigue and exertion is cumulative and places very high demands upon the muscular, circulatory and nervous systems. While it has benefits, there's certainly such a thing as "too much of a good thing".
  • robs_ready
    robs_ready Posts: 1,488 Member
    edited September 2016
    AnvilHead wrote: »
    sijomial wrote: »
    ...I'm probably in the minority in believing (genuine) HIIT and weight training is a bad mix, both create stress and need recovery time...

    Lyle addresses that issue and recommends no more than 1-2 HIIT sessions per week due to the increased demands upon the CNS and the recovery issues it can create/exacerbate.

    As you touched upon above with your parenthetical comment, most people who think they're doing HIIT aren't really doing HIIT. For those who actually are, it's highly strenuous and very taxing. HIIT, as the name implies, is intervals done at absolute maximal effort bracketed by recovery periods. The fatigue and exertion is cumulative and places very high demands upon the muscular, circulatory and nervous systems. While it has benefits, there's certainly such a thing as "too much of a good thing".

    How do I know when I'm in the right zone? Am I at 80-90% max heart rate?
  • AnvilHead
    AnvilHead Posts: 18,343 Member
    robs_ready wrote: »
    AnvilHead wrote: »
    sijomial wrote: »
    ...I'm probably in the minority in believing (genuine) HIIT and weight training is a bad mix, both create stress and need recovery time...

    Lyle addresses that issue and recommends no more than 1-2 HIIT sessions per week due to the increased demands upon the CNS and the recovery issues it can create/exacerbate.

    As you touched upon above with your parenthetical comment, most people who think they're doing HIIT aren't really doing HIIT. For those who actually are, it's highly strenuous and very taxing. HIIT, as the name implies, is intervals done at absolute maximal effort bracketed by recovery periods. The fatigue and exertion is cumulative and places very high demands upon the muscular, circulatory and nervous systems. While it has benefits, there's certainly such a thing as "too much of a good thing".

    How do I know when I'm in the right zone? Am I at 80-90% max heart rate?

    Depends on whose protocol you're going by. Dr. Izumi Tabata called for 20-second max efforts at 170% of your VO2max with 10-second recovery sessions in between; Drs. Little and Gibala assessed it as 60-second intervals at 95% of VO2max interspersed with 75-second recovery intervals. There are various other protocols out there, but the bottom line is that it's a maximal effort followed by a short recovery period (hence the "High Intensity" part of the HIIT acronym).

    A simpler way to gauge it would probably be something like this: If you went for 30 minutes, are sweaty, tired and out of breath afterward, it wasn't HIIT. If you went for 20 minutes (including warmup and cooldown), your muscles are on fire from the lactic acid, you're gasping for breath, seeing spots before your eyes and feel like you're going to puke, it was HIIT.
  • robs_ready
    robs_ready Posts: 1,488 Member
    AnvilHead wrote: »
    robs_ready wrote: »
    AnvilHead wrote: »
    sijomial wrote: »
    ...I'm probably in the minority in believing (genuine) HIIT and weight training is a bad mix, both create stress and need recovery time...

    Lyle addresses that issue and recommends no more than 1-2 HIIT sessions per week due to the increased demands upon the CNS and the recovery issues it can create/exacerbate.

    As you touched upon above with your parenthetical comment, most people who think they're doing HIIT aren't really doing HIIT. For those who actually are, it's highly strenuous and very taxing. HIIT, as the name implies, is intervals done at absolute maximal effort bracketed by recovery periods. The fatigue and exertion is cumulative and places very high demands upon the muscular, circulatory and nervous systems. While it has benefits, there's certainly such a thing as "too much of a good thing".

    How do I know when I'm in the right zone? Am I at 80-90% max heart rate?

    Depends on whose protocol you're going by. Dr. Izumi Tabata called for 20-second max efforts at 170% of your VO2max with 10-second recovery sessions in between; Drs. Little and Gibala assessed it as 60-second intervals at 95% of VO2max interspersed with 75-second recovery intervals. There are various other protocols out there, but the bottom line is that it's a maximal effort followed by a short recovery period (hence the "High Intensity" part of the HIIT acronym).

    A simpler way to gauge it would probably be something like this: If you went for 30 minutes, are sweaty, tired and out of breath afterward, it wasn't HIIT. If you went for 20 minutes (including warmup and cooldown), your muscles are on fire from the lactic acid, you're gasping for breath, seeing spots before your eyes and feel like you're going to puke, it was HIIT.

    I'm definitely not working hard enough then, thanks for this!
  • Coachjr29
    Coachjr29 Posts: 81 Member
    I have done HITT in the past but stress fractures made get away from it. I did 100 to 200m sprints with 30 sec rest. Burned a lot of fat and my legs got stronger. It was just too hard on my body at the time. Instead, I now do HITT on a spinning bike. Not as beneficial, but get a burn nonetheless.
  • MeanderingMammal
    MeanderingMammal Posts: 7,866 Member
    robs_ready wrote: »
    I've read mixed things on it as a fat lot burner. Also I'd like to know if 30 minutes of interval sprints burns more calories than 30 minutes of moderate cardio.

    For context, I'm a runner. My anaerobic training comes in the latter portion of a training cycle just before the taper as it's a method of increasing maximum output.

    With that in mind I'm not really using these sessions as a means of burning calories. The mileage I do means I struggle to keep up anyway. That said, having worked it out, including EPOC, a sprint session lasting c 30 minutes is about the same as a steady state, threshold pace, run for 30 minutes.

    That's because in a sprint session I'll warm up for ten minutes, do 6-8 cycles of 100m sprint with a 60 second recovery, then cool down for another 10. In that time about 75-80% of the running is at easy pace anyway.

    As upthread, lots of outlandish claims about HIIT, but when you analyse it you'll see much of that content is nonsense.
  • fleur23xx
    fleur23xx Posts: 37 Member
    I love HIIT and when I do it on the treadmill, I usually do either 45 on/45 off or 30 on/30 off. I will run as fast as I can to the point where I feel I will fall off the treadmill if I go any faster, and then jog pretty slow for recovery. I usually do about 12-15 minutes of this and I usually feel a little pukey after I'm done.

    The benefits is you get a really good workout in a very short amount of time and like you said, it's a lot more interesting than moderate cardio. Also, I have gotten better results in body composition with this style of training than just regular cardio. Other HIITs I do include moves like burpees with a pushup, jump squats, jump lunges, etc which are also very effective.
  • robertw486
    robertw486 Posts: 2,399 Member
    I do some HIIT here and there to mix it up, but personally the cardio benefit is limited IMHO. I think I've improved my cardio base quite a bit more with longer intervals at high intensities, along with lower effort training for longer periods. But I've put more time into the alternate training as well.

    Fat burning? Still comes down to deficit IMO, but the HIIT will deplete glycogen quicker.

    I'd love to convert the elliptical to rotational, or buy a good power measure for the bike, for HIIT type stuff. Once I started exceeding the meter for instant output on the elliptical doing Tabata level stuff got sort of hit and miss. At those output levels, keeping track of data gets harder quick.

    I personally haven't found recovery from Tabata type stuff that terrible. But I think many are not able to gauge power and are going all out vs outputting to a certain power level. That alone could really change the picture quickly in regards to how many intervals they could do, HR rise, and obviously recovery.
  • kcjchang
    kcjchang Posts: 709 Member
    Funny how everyone is doing HIIT (and liking it) have no way to guage the intensity of what they are doing.
  • robertw486
    robertw486 Posts: 2,399 Member
    kcjchang wrote: »
    Funny how everyone is doing HIIT (and liking it) have no way to guage the intensity of what they are doing.

    Don't include me in that everyone. I've just exceeded the instantaneous readout on my metered machine, leaving me at "keep going but guess" levels until I can calculate it after the fact.
  • chrisg676
    chrisg676 Posts: 39 Member
    Cycling and Tapout XT works for me.
  • medic2038
    medic2038 Posts: 434 Member
    AnvilHead wrote: »
    sijomial wrote: »
    ...I'm probably in the minority in believing (genuine) HIIT and weight training is a bad mix, both create stress and need recovery time...

    Lyle addresses that issue and recommends no more than 1-2 HIIT sessions per week due to the increased demands upon the CNS and the recovery issues it can create/exacerbate.

    As you touched upon above with your parenthetical comment, most people who think they're doing HIIT aren't really doing HIIT. For those who actually are, it's highly strenuous and very taxing. HIIT, as the name implies, is intervals done at absolute maximal effort bracketed by recovery periods. The fatigue and exertion is cumulative and places very high demands upon the muscular, circulatory and nervous systems. While it has benefits, there's certainly such a thing as "too much of a good thing".

    This exactly. I don't do HIIT regularly now, but I "thought" i was doing it in the past. I WAS doing interval running on a treadmill, and it wasn't close to HIIT (you can't really do HIIT on a treadmill, it's unsafe and transitions too slow).

    HIIT is supposed to be balls to the walls, 100% maximum effort. The first time I finished doing real HIIT on an eliptical I was walking like a drunk and almost fell over, and wanted to puke and die. If you don't feel like that at the end of it, you're probably doing it wrong!
  • robertw486
    robertw486 Posts: 2,399 Member
    medic2038 wrote: »
    AnvilHead wrote: »
    sijomial wrote: »
    ...I'm probably in the minority in believing (genuine) HIIT and weight training is a bad mix, both create stress and need recovery time...

    Lyle addresses that issue and recommends no more than 1-2 HIIT sessions per week due to the increased demands upon the CNS and the recovery issues it can create/exacerbate.

    As you touched upon above with your parenthetical comment, most people who think they're doing HIIT aren't really doing HIIT. For those who actually are, it's highly strenuous and very taxing. HIIT, as the name implies, is intervals done at absolute maximal effort bracketed by recovery periods. The fatigue and exertion is cumulative and places very high demands upon the muscular, circulatory and nervous systems. While it has benefits, there's certainly such a thing as "too much of a good thing".

    This exactly. I don't do HIIT regularly now, but I "thought" i was doing it in the past. I WAS doing interval running on a treadmill, and it wasn't close to HIIT (you can't really do HIIT on a treadmill, it's unsafe and transitions too slow).

    HIIT is supposed to be balls to the walls, 100% maximum effort. The first time I finished doing real HIIT on an eliptical I was walking like a drunk and almost fell over, and wanted to puke and die. If you don't feel like that at the end of it, you're probably doing it wrong!

    The effort level and number of work cycles varies quite a bit on accepted HIIT workouts. The Tabata HIIT isn't nearly as taxing as I thought it might be, and I think it would be less taxing on a bike vs elliptical. Not that it's easy by any stretch, but not puke worthy.

    I'd say without a way to meter power it would be easy to overcook output early on, and leave yourself in puke territory after a few intervals.
  • kcjchang
    kcjchang Posts: 709 Member
    IE1 protocol? Only Olympic speedskaters, as test subjects, who can manage over 8 cycles of 20 seconds "on" and 10 seconds "off" intervals of 170% of VO2 Max at 85 rpm four times a week plus a day of steady-state training remained in the study, "not taxing", you're joking right? (By the way, anything less than four times a week is not IE1 protocol aka Tabata HIIT.)

    If IE1 is too easy, try IE2 protocol. Not sure what's the point since Tabata's study found that physiological index magnitudes deteriorated in the last 10 sec of each repetition of IE2 and IE1 protocol taxed both the anaerobic and aerobic energy releasing systems almost maximally, but go for broke.
  • NorthCascades
    NorthCascades Posts: 10,968 Member
    robs_ready wrote: »
    I know what Cardio is and what it's for. I'm interested in knowing me about HIIT and anaerobic exercises apart from weight training which I already do a lot of.

    I don't think there's any benefit to training your anaerobic system without a strong aerobic base, personally.
  • robertw486
    robertw486 Posts: 2,399 Member
    kcjchang wrote: »
    IE1 protocol? Only Olympic speedskaters, as test subjects, who can manage over 8 cycles of 20 seconds "on" and 10 seconds "off" intervals of 170% of VO2 Max at 85 rpm four times a week plus a day of steady-state training remained in the study, "not taxing", you're joking right? (By the way, anything less than four times a week is not IE1 protocol aka Tabata HIIT.)

    If IE1 is too easy, try IE2 protocol. Not sure what's the point since Tabata's study found that physiological index magnitudes deteriorated in the last 10 sec of each repetition of IE2 and IE1 protocol taxed both the anaerobic and aerobic energy releasing systems almost maximally, but go for broke.

    I think the most I've done it in a single week was 3 times, but have no doubt that the week long protocol is within the grasp of a normal and reasonably trained average Joe or Jane. I did it with other workouts in that day that exceeded the single day of steady state, and I'm no genetic freak of nature by any means.

    The point on the IE2 protocol is no doubt quite valid, and I think for most that extra 10 seconds would be very taxing for the heart rate. But that also brings up the point I was making that without a power measure it would be very easy for someone to overdo it with the IE1 as well. My all out 100% short term effort would easily exceed 170% of VO2max, but I doubt me or any other average person would do it for many intervals.
  • kcjchang
    kcjchang Posts: 709 Member
    Your intensity is too low. What is your method and duration used to estimate/identify VO2 Max. From your previous posts, you indicated that you have done laboratory tests to determine your lactate threshold (4 mmol L). The VO2 at lactate threshold is not VO2 Max. In world-class athletes lactate threshold typically occurs at 70-80% VO2 Max. In untrained individuals it occurs much sooner, at 50-60% VO2 Max. The other method is to estimate using the formula from American College of Sports Medicine based on the 5 minute mean maximal power or power at the steadier, “pay as you go” pace, from a well-paced pursuit-style effort (e.g. 3 km pursuit race) ignoring the initial spike at start.
    robertw486 wrote: »
    My all out 100% short term effort would easily exceed 170% of VO2max, but I doubt me or any other average person would do it for many intervals.

    That's because one is relying solely on the phosphagen system (~5 seconds of all out effort plus declining output for 12-15 seconds before glycolysis kicks in). Re-phosphorlation will never catch up for the remaining intervals for IE1. This is why downtime (re-phosphorlation) consist of the bulk of the duration for a sprint workouts. Max heart rate is not a limiter on how high the intensity on can go. Same goes with Ventilatory Threshold. The whole point is to tax and maximize one's anaerobic threshold.
  • RavenLibra
    RavenLibra Posts: 1,737 Member
    Intervals should be a supplement to improving your over all cardiovascular health... think of intervals as muscle building for your heart, lungs diaphragm and circulatory system... NOT as a stand alone "fat burner" exercise. As some posters have suggested the idea is to approach "failure" levels in respiratory and muscle endurance during the "go" portion of the exercise... and to "recover" as quickly as possible...coming from a middle distance track back ground...We were coached to do intervals as a way to increase overall speed in middle and long distance running... don't let anyone tell you you can't do intervals on a treadmill... you just need to be able to step off the belt quickly for the rest interval... My current "poison" is the stairmaster... 30 seconds to 1 minute at my max pace... followed by 1 minute to 1:30 rest before stoking the fire again... interval training should be done using your biggest muscle groups (legs) in order to hit the anaerobic wall as quickly as possible... so stairs, track, or hills are the best "instrument of destruction"... when you hit your max... you should be uncomfortably out of breath and like going another 10 seconds is impossible... or you should be building to that level... To begin intervals you should absolutely have your doctor's input and already have a strong cardio "work ethic"... Intevals should never be done "cold" always warm up before beginning...

    what Intervals will really do is turn a jogger into a runner... if you ever had designs on a sub 5 minute mile... this is what intervals were designed to do... make you faster and stronger for longer...
  • snerggly
    snerggly Posts: 112 Member
    I do HITT workouts on my spin bike and a treadmill ( I use an app called MotionTraxx.) I noticed that I am getting stronger and not as winded as I used to have happen.
  • fleur23xx
    fleur23xx Posts: 37 Member
    edited September 2016
    snerggly wrote: »
    This exactly. I don't do HIIT regularly now, but I "thought" i was doing it in the past. I WAS doing interval running on a treadmill, and it wasn't close to HIIT (you can't really do HIIT on a treadmill, it's unsafe and transitions too slow).

    That's why I usually start the intervals several seconds before rest period actually ends because of the lag period. It's possible to do it on a treadmill, but I will agree that it is risky because I have almost fallen off going at max speed. I want to take it outdoors, but I'm afraid people will think I'm running for my life.

  • _Waffle_
    _Waffle_ Posts: 13,049 Member
    robs_ready wrote: »
    Hello,
    Also I'd like to know if 30 minutes of interval sprints burns more calories than 30 minutes of moderate cardio.

    That totally depends on what you call moderate and what you're doing for cardio vs. what you're doing for HIIT. I don't think you gave nearly enough information for someone to give you a good answer here.
  • tjones0411
    tjones0411 Posts: 179 Member
    I take Les Mills GRIT classes a few times per week - they are 30 min HIIT. It's brutal. I can't say that I like it...but I continue to take it anyway because I've noticed a difference in my fitness levels. I keep hoping it'll get easier! But I guess that defeats the purpose, huh?
  • RavenLibra
    RavenLibra Posts: 1,737 Member
    yes... HIIT is NOT supposed to get easier, BUT it makes everything else easier
  • robertw486
    robertw486 Posts: 2,399 Member
    kcjchang wrote: »
    Your intensity is too low. What is your method and duration used to estimate/identify VO2 Max. From your previous posts, you indicated that you have done laboratory tests to determine your lactate threshold (4 mmol L). The VO2 at lactate threshold is not VO2 Max. In world-class athletes lactate threshold typically occurs at 70-80% VO2 Max. In untrained individuals it occurs much sooner, at 50-60% VO2 Max. The other method is to estimate using the formula from American College of Sports Medicine based on the 5 minute mean maximal power or power at the steadier, “pay as you go” pace, from a well-paced pursuit-style effort (e.g. 3 km pursuit race) ignoring the initial spike at start.
    robertw486 wrote: »
    My all out 100% short term effort would easily exceed 170% of VO2max, but I doubt me or any other average person would do it for many intervals.

    That's because one is relying solely on the phosphagen system (~5 seconds of all out effort plus declining output for 12-15 seconds before glycolysis kicks in). Re-phosphorlation will never catch up for the remaining intervals for IE1. This is why downtime (re-phosphorlation) consist of the bulk of the duration for a sprint workouts. Max heart rate is not a limiter on how high the intensity on can go. Same goes with Ventilatory Threshold. The whole point is to tax and maximize one's anaerobic threshold.

    I've used several methods to calculate VO2max, and all come up reasonably close. As for intensity, it's metered to 170%, and thus to the protocol, not below it. But that is my point, 170% is not full ability. For people that have no meter, going beyond 170% for even an interval or two would make completing 8 intervals or more much more taxing. I've experienced this as I increased my VO2max to the point where the machine won't read it out in instantaneous reading.

    I've never done any lab LT testing, and fully understand that LT and VO2max are two different things.


    And having done the Tabata myself, I maintain that it is well within the grasp of many if not most average athletes. Since VO2max is relative to cardio training it certainly won't ever get easier to do, but it's far from any elite level workout IMO.
  • Lofteren
    Lofteren Posts: 960 Member
    I have used HIIT to lose 85lbs so far. After lifting weights, I will do intervals on a heavybag as hard and fast as possible (if you do this, you will need to tie the bag to a bolt in the floor or have someone hold it for you).

    Also, on the days that I don't lift, I do BJJ which is a lot like HIIT because rolls tend to have moments of really intense movement broken up by moments of very low intensity. Of course, the variables aren't nearly as controlled as they are when doing othertypes of HIIT; however, BJJ has proven to be an outstanding way to lose fat for me.