Super-Slow Weight Lifting
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JulieSHelms
Posts: 821 Member
Is anyone familiar with this concept? It's a form of high-intensity training. I searched the message boards but didn't see any other threads on it. There is a book Body by Science by Doug McGuff about it that I was considering getting. I would welcome any opinions or people's experience with it.
My personal goal is to lose fat (about 45 lbs left to go) and get fit.
Thanks!
My personal goal is to lose fat (about 45 lbs left to go) and get fit.
Thanks!
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Replies
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Do you lift at all right now? I'm not opposed to experimenting with lifting speed in general but think that brand new lifters should focus on learning proper form and just plain old lifting. It's like, I don't know, learning to print the alphabet before trying to write your name in cursive. Start with the basics.11
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I have a dvd by Cathe Friedrich called the "slow and heavy" series. When I need to do something different with my weight training, I love to do these routines. I am shaking by the end of the workout. Quoted by a website with info regarding slow and heavy workouts: "By eliminating all momentum, this technique absolutely maximizes intensity… and results (it also requires a lot of mental focus)."
I recommend doing all sorts of different weight training routines, and this is a good one to do. I believe that only 8 reps are done, and they are done to a 6 second count. Here is a blog on fast vs. slow reps.
http://cathe.com/rep-speed-fast-slow-reps-better-building-strength1 -
I have read good things about it, but never done it consistently. I will do a slow light workout with hand weights if I am unable/too lazy to do anything else.
I was told many moons ago 'if you have only 5lbs weights available, lift them as though they are 50lbs' (slow, with no momentum), its one of the few things I remember- good info for when I get old
Here is a decent article
http://www.m.webmd.com/men/features/want-more-strength-slow-down
Cheers, h.1 -
I've done super slow lifting. Every once in a while I cycle it back in to my program. Reduce the weight and concentrate super super hard on the muscles that are being used during whatever exercise it is I'm doing and perform it at a slower tempo.
it's awesome - you can really feel the burn. Then when I finish my slow phase I will generally up the weight and do it in a faster tempo.
I have not researched this - my trainer taught me it (when I used to be with a trainer) and now I still do it when I need to change things up. I find it useful.2 -
Do you lift at all right now? I'm not opposed to experimenting with lifting speed in general but think that brand new lifters should focus on learning proper form and just plain old lifting. It's like, I don't know, learning to print the alphabet before trying to write your name in cursive. Start with the basics.
I'm with Jem on this one. There are many different ways of going about lifting weight, plyometric (explosive), isometric (holding at peak contraction), heavy-weight low-volume, light-weight high-volume, slow concentric and/or eccentric (basically, the super-slow you mentioned). They all have their purpose, especially at more advanced training levels.
I tend to favor the type of exercise that you enjoy doing; and that you have the time to do. If you can get in and out of the gym in one hour doing 'super-slow high-intensity' lifts, can do that 2-3 times a week, and not hate every second, awesome. If you end up going just once a week, spending two hours, and dreading every breath, maybe a more straightforward program is in order. Some programs will have you out the door in 45 minutes.
Find what's right for you. And don't forget your nutrition. Weight loss is calorie deficit. Exercise and food are both elements in the equation.
Feel free to post your lifting routine here and we can talk specifics.3 -
Thank you everybody for the input.Do you lift at all right now? I'm not opposed to experimenting with lifting speed in general but think that brand new lifters should focus on learning proper form and just plain old lifting. It's like, I don't know, learning to print the alphabet before trying to write your name in cursive. Start with the basics.
I am new to exercise in general. 10 weeks ago (on my 50th birthday!), I joined Planet Fitness--first time I had ever walked into a gym in my life. I had lost 60 lbs over the previous year (low carb, no exercise) and had come to a standstill for 6 months. I knew I was going to have to do something about my metabolism--I still had 60 lbs to go.
My fitness regimen for these past ten weeks has been the following--it's a 6 day cycle, but I exercise 7 days/week:
Day 1 Swim laps 30 min
Day 2 Swim laps 30 min
Day 3 Elliptical 25 min, weight machines-upper body
Day 4 Elliptical 25 min, weight machines- lower body
Day 5 Elliptical 10 min, Circuit 30 min
Day 6 Elliptical 45 min
I learned about HIIT several weeks ago and changed Day 6 to Elliptical with the high-intensity intervals--25 min.
My results: In 10 weeks I have lost 27 lbs and feel fantastic. I almost feel addicted to it. In the beginning I had planned to take a day off (hence my 6-day plan), but I would get so fidgety just thinking about how much I wanted to go, so I would never end up taking a day off.
So, IMO, what I am doing is working beyond my greatest hopes. But I've been doing a lot of research and have gotten concerned about doing too much cardio--that it may be at cross-purposes to building the muscle to improve metabolism. (I'm also insulin resistant and understand the weight training helps with that too.) Please note, I am not interested in particularly looking muscular, I just want my metabolism to come out of dormancy so I can lose weight and then maintain it.
From what I've read about the super-slow weight training (5 machines, 4-8 reps till failure, just the one set), it is only done once every 7-10 days and the recovery time is crucial to the method working. Then I guess you do your other stuff in between--but not sure about that.
Another note, I have to do weight machines, not free weights. I have a bad back with a history of back surgery and I need the support those machines give during the exercise.
So what do you think?
Thanks!
Julie
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Do you lift at all right now? I'm not opposed to experimenting with lifting speed in general but think that brand new lifters should focus on learning proper form and just plain old lifting. It's like, I don't know, learning to print the alphabet before trying to write your name in cursive. Start with the basics.
Perfect.0 -
You are definitely working hard, and the results prove it.
Now bare with me for what may seem like some "bro science" and a really long post.
Concerns about HIIT taking from muscle growth stem from the fact that HIIT also promotes some muscle growth (whereas low intensity cardio, mostly, does not). That means you would have to eat enough and rest enough to promote recovery on two fronts. To build new muscle you need extra calories. And that could be at odds with your goal of shedding fat.
This is a frequent consideration for those really focusing on adding muscle bulk without also adding fat. The difficulties of "bulking and cutting" at the same time are well documented. Some swear it's doable, some say it's a waste of time. The one thing almost everyone agrees on is that those who are new to weightlifting can actually pull it off - the so called "newbie gains."
I don't think you need to worry about your HIIT catabolizing your weightlifting gains, however.....
....I would raise a red flag for having absolutely no rest days. The super-slow method asks for so many rest days because it takes you to failure. To skip rest is a likely path to injury. To keep your normal Day 3 and Day 4 while also doing the super-slow HIIT could be that path to injury. Even the exercises that don't take you you muscle failure still require rest.
Three suggestions:
1) You should feel free to change your program as you move on. For example, you can switch things up from week to week. One week, doing your super-slow HIIT and swapping your Day 3 and Day 4 lifting for low-intensity cardio. The following week, you stick to the program as you described in your post. And you can go back and forth. That allows you to stay with your new method, get your muscles all the rest they need, and keep with cardio that will help with the weight loss.
2) Rework your schedule so that cardio days fall in between you lifting, such as:
Day 1 Swim laps 30 min
Day 2 Elliptical 25 min, weight machines-upper body
Day 3 Swim laps 30 min
Day 4 Elliptical 10 min, Circuit 30 min
Day 5 Elliptical 25 min, weight machines- lower body
Day 6 Elliptical 45 min
3) Take a day off!
Day 7 NOTHING!
As the saying goes "muscles are broken in the gym, fed in the kitchen and built in bed."
Find what you enjoy and keep at it. But rest and don't hurt yourself.5 -
Hey Dreamsignals, thanks so much for the very specific advice--that's really helpful. I had to go to the urban dictionary for "bro science" but I got it now. Lol.
Just to clarify--it was the low-intensity cardio I was worried about, not the HIIT cardio I added in a few weeks ago, for undoing muscle gains. I take it then HIIT elliptical and HIIT Super-slow weight lifting shouldn't be done in the same week? You are saying to alternate them? I didn't think that would be a problem since the elliptical isn't weight lifting...
Ok, I'll take a day off. If I get the fidgets, I'll go for a walk. A slow walk, a non-cardio walk....a meander.
Thanks again!
Julie0 -
My bad, misunderstood that. The low-intensity cardio won't add significantly to the queue of muscles that you broke down during your lifting and HIIT. These will continue to rebuild themselves stronger as you give them food and rest.
The main concern in the catabolic process is losing muscle mass, but necessarily strength. And even then, as long as you keep training, you're telling your body that it needs to keep those muscles right where they are. From your workout regimen, you would have to be at a pretty severe caloric deficit to really see your gains dwindle.
Also, you can get strong, active, healthy, ready-to-go muscles without accentuated hypertrophy. Getting big is actually pretty hard, and requires a ton a food. It's normal for even amateur bodybuilders of powerlifters to eat in excess of 3000 calories a day and still struggle to gain lean weight.2 -
I'll keep this direct - Don't do the super slow training.
The main reason, is that your still new to this - 10 weeks is very new, 2/3 years is where you be to be considering this, and even then, it's not that simple - It's only really for the people who have form\technique nailed down, and can handle the drop is weights they will be doing with still perfect form.
For now, just do the regular training\lifting, at normal pace, much safer at this level IMHO
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I'm currently doing a German body composition program, which incorporates elements of slow training. Specifically, going very slow (3 seconds) on the negative portion of the movement, with little to no rest in between sets.
It's intended to induce lactate production. That last set burns like a mofo.1 -
CarlKRobbo wrote: »I'll keep this direct - Don't do the super slow training.
The main reason, is that your still new to this - 10 weeks is very new, 2/3 years is where you be to be considering this, and even then, it's not that simple - It's only really for the people who have form\technique nailed down, and can handle the drop is weights they will be doing with still perfect form.
For now, just do the regular training\lifting, at normal pace, much safer at this level IMHO
Ok, I hear you. I know I'm very new to this--not just lifting, but exercise in general. It was only recently, through researching it, that I learned lifting was very helpful for accelerating weight loss. I was just looking for the biggest bang for my buck, so to speak.
I heard about the super-slow training here: fitness.mercola.com/sites/fitness/archive/2016/05/27/super-slow-weight-training.aspx
and it's recommended for all, nothing about experience mentioned. Of course, they are talking about using machines which I would imagine is harder to mess up your form on.
Thanks for your input--that's why I came here and asked the question!0 -
CarlKRobbo wrote: »I'll keep this direct - Don't do the super slow training.
The main reason, is that your still new to this - 10 weeks is very new, 2/3 years is where you be to be considering this, and even then, it's not that simple - It's only really for the people who have form\technique nailed down, and can handle the drop is weights they will be doing with still perfect form.
For now, just do the regular training\lifting, at normal pace, much safer at this level IMHO
Just curious: Why do you say that training with lighter weights is less safe?0 -
JulieSHelms wrote: »CarlKRobbo wrote: »I'll keep this direct - Don't do the super slow training.
The main reason, is that your still new to this - 10 weeks is very new, 2/3 years is where you be to be considering this, and even then, it's not that simple - It's only really for the people who have form\technique nailed down, and can handle the drop is weights they will be doing with still perfect form.
For now, just do the regular training\lifting, at normal pace, much safer at this level IMHO
Ok, I hear you. I know I'm very new to this--not just lifting, but exercise in general. It was only recently, through researching it, that I learned lifting was very helpful for accelerating weight loss. I was just looking for the biggest bang for my buck, so to speak.
I heard about the super-slow training here: fitness.mercola.com/sites/fitness/archive/2016/05/27/super-slow-weight-training.aspx
and it's recommended for all, nothing about experience mentioned. Of course, they are talking about using machines which I would imagine is harder to mess up your form on.
Thanks for your input--that's why I came here and asked the question!
Anything Mercola says is probably the opposite of the truth. I'd disregard him in all instances.2 -
CarlKRobbo wrote: »I'll keep this direct - Don't do the super slow training.
The main reason, is that your still new to this - 10 weeks is very new, 2/3 years is where you be to be considering this, and even then, it's not that simple - It's only really for the people who have form\technique nailed down, and can handle the drop is weights they will be doing with still perfect form.
For now, just do the regular training\lifting, at normal pace, much safer at this level IMHO
Just curious: Why do you say that training with lighter weights is less safe?
Not saying it's less safe. Sorry if it came across that way.
Just meaning, the form of someone lifting after just 6 months, can still be ropey. Then doing it over more time, slower reps, when form may still need to be worked on may not be the best idea. For example, would they have the required knowledge to drop the wieght lifted correctly? without compromising form...
Just my 2 cents really1 -
CarlKRobbo wrote: »CarlKRobbo wrote: »I'll keep this direct - Don't do the super slow training.
The main reason, is that your still new to this - 10 weeks is very new, 2/3 years is where you be to be considering this, and even then, it's not that simple - It's only really for the people who have form\technique nailed down, and can handle the drop is weights they will be doing with still perfect form.
For now, just do the regular training\lifting, at normal pace, much safer at this level IMHO
Just curious: Why do you say that training with lighter weights is less safe?
Not saying it's less safe. Sorry if it came across that way.
Just meaning, the form of someone lifting after just 6 months, can still be ropey. Then doing it over more time, slower reps, when form may still need to be worked on may not be the best idea. For example, would they have the required knowledge to drop the wieght lifted correctly? without compromising form...
Just my 2 cents really
I hear you. Lifting with slow, controlled movement takes good form and good discipline. Those take time.0 -
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It is most likely not optimal from a strength/power perspective:
http://strengtheory.com/speed-kills-2x-the-intended-bar-speed-yields-2x-the-bench-press-gains/
However, I think it has a place in hypertrophy and work capacity training, as kwtilbury mentioned one specific application. It is also helpful when working around an injury (or just resting joints), or out of necessity when you have a limited amount of weights available. With that said, I don't think it is something a beginner needs to worry about, and I don't think it is worth buying a book about it.0 -
Oooh, I'm feelin' the Mercola love around here!
One thing I have noticed as a newbie researching this stuff is that there is a LOT of conflicting information/advice around.
My big take away from all this is, I think (with some minor tweaks) I'll keep doing what I was doing. I lost 26 lbs in 10 weeks and I am much stronger and I feel great. I'm not sure why there is so much hate for the weight machines (not on this thread) because they are working for me. When I started on them, I assumed after carrying around 300 lbs for so long my legs at least would be strong--I was really wrong. The first time I did a leg press I could only do 90 lbs--couldn't believe how weak I was. Yesterday, I did it at 190 lbs. So though the machines may not be ideal, they do improve strength.
Thanks to everyone for your input. I'll save my Amazon $$ and buy a trashy novel instead. 2
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