Should I drop accessory lifts?

dillmilk

I'm doing full body 2-3 days a week.. eight exercises total. Today I dropped the accessory lifts and my deadlift and squat DOUBLED because I was able to shift my focus and energy. I'm wondering if I should stick to a starting strength or 5x5 routine or keep accessory lifts and go lighter on everything. My main focus is aesthetics. I've already been going to the gym for 6 months and have seen decent gains but the weight on the bar rarely changes.

dillmilk

This is my routine:

- [ ] Chest Press
- [ ] Bent Over Row
- [ ] Shoulder Press
- [ ] Dumbbell Curl
- [ ] Tricep Pulldown
- [ ] Deadlift
- [ ] Leg Press
- [ ] Calf Raise

jemhh

If I'm squatting or deadlifting it's before accessory lifts. If anything those main compounds affect accessories rather than vice versa. What does your program look like?

kathrynjean_

^^ Agreed. Also, are you using an established program or one that you made on your own?

dillmilk

Yeah, usually I do compounds and then accessories but today I really put my all into them and didn't reserve any energy so when I got around to accessories I didn't have any energy left to do them. Usually I will pace myself and go light on the compounds so that I have energy left over to perform the accessories. Now I. Wondering if the accessories are even necessary? Or if there's a better way to split my routine up. But it's really hard for me to find time to go to the gym more than 2 or 3 times a week.

canadianlbs

disclaimer: i know nothing at all about this kind of thing.

but with that said, two thoughts:

- if aesthetics is your focus, does it even matter that you doubled your main-lift weights? i'm not being snarky, just offering you that way of looking at it.

- i have a tendency to overdo accessories because i find them nice and non-threatening. but otoh, if my accessories were draining my gas tank that much, even i would probably scale back on them.

sgt1372

Accessory lifts are generally unnecessary for "beginners." People don't like to think of themselves as "beginners," so they just aren't satisfied limiting themselves to the 4-5 lifts in a basic lifting program like Starting Strength or Stronglifts.

FWIW, a "beginning" lifter is one who continues to lift heavier weight using a progressive linear program, again like Starting Strength or Stronglifts, without regard to how much weight is being lifted.

In other words, you could be deadlifting 400+ lbs and still be considered a "beginner" in the context of a progressive linear program because you have not yet reached your personal limit in doing so and, if you are continuing to increase your strength in this way, you really don't "need" to do any accessory lifts.

However, human nature being what it is, we always seem to end up doing more, even if it is not in our best interest to do so. Oh well. . .

DopeItUp

If your main lifts doubled by dropping accessories, you're probably doing too much and/or eating/resting too little and thus not recovering enough between workouts. By reducing overall volume your strength shot through the roof because you were able to fully recover from workout to workout.

Having said that, if you're going light on your main movements to save energy for accessories you're doing it backwards. Do your big, heavy compound movements first and dedicate your energy to them. The accessories are just that, accessories to the main lift. They are the fluff lifts to add some volume and/or bring up some body parts. I'd switch things around and focus on your main movements, ESPECIALLY as a beginner.

Accessories are fine but it's hard to say where you're at without seeing your program. You only listed a selection of exercises, there were no details around which days are which, how many sets, how many reps, how much weight, etc.. Given this information (or lack thereof) and your newbie status, I'd consider just sticking with an established program and seeing it through. If your progress is this rough, this early, and you're doing some random program you created, you're probably way off on what you need to be doing at this point in the game.

jolive7

I do my compound lifts first but I don't "reserve" energy. I go all out for that particular part of my program, rest, drink some BCAAs and continue with accessories at the end of my session. If you have a program it should allow for this i.e. you wont be doing 5 sets of heavy deads and a bunch of accessory work

sijomial

Slightly different take and assuming you are training each exercise sequentially rather than in a circuit training rotation style....

If these:
Dumbbell Curl
Tricep Pulldown

Take away all your energy for these:
Deadlift
Leg Press

I'm wondering if you have really poor fitness level?
Your legs should be completely fresh!

But overall if you have been going to the gym for 6 months as a 24 YO male and you aren't adding loads of weight/increasing strength rapidly then something is badly wrong and you should change.

dillmilk

To clarify: I do the same eight exercises every day, three days a week. Monday, Wednesday, Friday. 3 sets of 12 for everything. I do compounds first and usually try to reserve energy to do accessories after.

dillmilk

Really the only difference between my routine and a program like starting strength is the addition of accessory lifts and higher rep range + lower weight to focus on hypertrophy > strength.

quiksylver296

Are you reaching the goals you want? If yes, continue. If no, change.

peaceout_aly

canadianlbs wrote: »

disclaimer: i know nothing at all about this kind of thing.

but with that said, two thoughts:

- if aesthetics is your focus, does it even matter that you doubled your main-lift weights? i'm not being snarky, just offering you that way of looking at it.

- i have a tendency to overdo accessories because i find them nice and non-threatening. but otoh, if my accessories were draining my gas tank that much, even i would probably scale back on them.

Important to note. Are you going for strength or aesthetics? Keep them in your routine if you're going for looks. Drop if you're going for strength.

Chieflrg

dylan_mazur wrote: »

To clarify: I do the same eight exercises every day, three days a week. Monday, Wednesday, Friday. 3 sets of 12 for everything. I do compounds first and usually try to reserve energy to do accessories after.

If your following the program you should focus energy on your mains with no regards to accessories. You cross that bridge after you finish mains.

If you are worried about energy for accessories, your wither lifting too much weight and/or not recovering and fueling yourself.

jemhh

OP, Version 2 (halfway down this page) of aworkoutroutine.com's beginner workout program would probably be a good fit for you. It uses the rep range that you like and the exercises that you like (if you look in the instructions you'll see that he oks leg presses as a sub for squats) and are already doing. The difference between it and what you are doing now is that the exercises are split into two separate workouts, A and B, that you alternate. He also adds a vertical pull, which is something you are missing. I would suggest trying it out and following his instructions/progression, including the exercise order.

Leadfoot_Lewis

-As mentioned, do your compound lifts first
-You shouldn't be doing 12 reps for everything. Go heavy on your compounds (e.g.3x5, 5x5) and keep the accessory lifts in the higher rep range (8-12 reps)
-Eat more. I would bet this is a lot of your problem.

dillmilk

I am going for aesthetics.

Thats what I thought. I will always do compounds first and try not to hold back.

I will check out that routine. I've tried an A B routine before and liked it.

Thank you all!

jemhh

dylan_mazur wrote: »

I am going for aesthetics.

Thats what I thought. I will always do compounds first and try not to hold back.

I will check out that routine. I've tried an A B routine before and liked it.

Thank you all!

Yeah, I was going to suggest splitting it up but when I wrote it out I realized it was almost exactly that routine, which I was just looking at for my husband.

TR0berts

dylan_mazur wrote: »

Really the only difference between my routine and a program like starting strength is the addition of accessory lifts and higher rep range + lower weight to focus on hypertrophy > strength.

No - those are relatively minor differences. The biggest difference between what you're doing and Starting Strength is that the weight increases every session. In your OP, you said, "I've already been going to the gym for 6 months and have seen decent gains but the weight on the bar rarely changes." That needs to change, ASAP. Spinning wheels = no (sometimes negative) gains.

wishfuljune

I agree; compounds first, accessory lifts second, and maybe split up your days and do an A B A or A B C routine. I personally do not benefit from full body weightlifting because I find I'm super fatigued by the end and can't seem to give it my all.

Now I do a major compound (or two) and then two accessory lifts per muscle group for 5 days a week, and the weights are moving up each week.

DopeItUp

dylan_mazur wrote: »

Really the only difference between my routine and a program like starting strength is the addition of accessory lifts and higher rep range + lower weight to focus on hypertrophy > strength.

Uhhh, negative. Your routine looks nothing like Starting Strength. For starters, the basis of SS has you squatting 3x weekly, you are squatting 0x weekly. You are doing sets of 12, SS is sets of 5. And 75% of the exercises you are doing aren't in SS at all. Totally different programs. Just do SS, or SL, or ICF or something along those lines and do the program as its written. Don't try to write your own programs with 6 months experience (maybe with 6 years you can).

JoRocka

dylan_mazur wrote: »

To clarify: I do the same eight exercises every day, three days a week. Monday, Wednesday, Friday. 3 sets of 12 for everything. I do compounds first and usually try to reserve energy to do accessories after.

okay- I'll bite.

If you do compounds first and accessories second- why the heck did you list them not in that order.
We can only help you based off the information you're giving us.

Which is incompletely and inaccurate.

dillmilk

JoRocka wrote: »

dylan_mazur wrote: »

To clarify: I do the same eight exercises every day, three days a week. Monday, Wednesday, Friday. 3 sets of 12 for everything. I do compounds first and usually try to reserve energy to do accessories after.

okay- I'll bite.

If you do compounds first and accessories second- why the heck did you list them not in that order.
We can only help you based off the information you're giving us.

Which is incompletely and inaccurate.

Nice contribution. It's already been solved. Moving on...

jolive7

Another question that's kind of unrelated to the accessory lifts - how long have you been doing this program of the same 8 exercises? You should look to change your program around every 5 - 6 weeks

nossmf

Change SOMETHING every few weeks, agreed. But nothing says you have to change up the exercises themselves. Change the sets/reps, change the tempo, change the rest between sets, do supersets instead of straight sets, lots of ways you can change and surprise the body without completely redoing everything.

jolive7

nossmf wrote: »

Change SOMETHING every few weeks, agreed. But nothing says you have to change up the exercises themselves. Change the sets/reps, change the tempo, change the rest between sets, do supersets instead of straight sets, lots of ways you can change and surprise the body without completely redoing everything.

I didn't say redo everything... But how can someone be satisfied with doing the same 8 exercises 3 times a week for life lol

Sued0nim

Why no squats?

dillmilk

Sued0nim wrote: »

Why no squats?

I'm tall and lanky and it's really awkward for me and I've injured myself (just a minor one but it scared me).

I've mostly been sticking to the same exercises but I've also done calisthenics, dumbbell-only workouts, upper/lower and A B splits. I also have a repertoire of alternative exercises I'll do sometimes: cable crossovers, tricep pullovers, lateral raises, hammer curls, lat pulldowns, seated rows, pull-ups, chins-ups, and yes sometimes squats. Also do ab work on occasion. I've experimented and found that these are basically the exercises I'm comfortable with.

dillmilk

nossmf wrote: »

Change SOMETHING every few weeks, agreed. But nothing says you have to change up the exercises themselves. Change the sets/reps, change the tempo, change the rest between sets, do supersets instead of straight sets, lots of ways you can change and surprise the body without completely redoing everything.

I really like doing pyramids, drop-sets, running the rack, etc. They are nice challenges.

canadianlbs

dylan_mazur wrote: »

I really like doing pyramids, drop-sets, running the rack, etc. They are nice challenges.

you might like the wendler programme more than sl or starting strength then. admittedly i'm still a bit honeymoon about it, but still it may be worth looking into for you.

you seem to like variety, but as people have been saying, progress comes best when you're keeping a core of consistency. wendler kind of gives you both. you never do two sets in a row at the same weight and the reps-per-set change every week too. so there's always something to look forward to (plus, anything you dread doesn't last very long). but it's still consistent enough month over month that you keep chugging forward. i did sl for a year on my own and then 3x5 for another 9 months by trainer, but tbh i feel like i only really got underway with wendler.

with your schedule the only issue might be getting into the gym often enough, but i know you can do it in 3 sessions instead of four. i think ther'es even a 2-session format, though that's only hearsay.