The problem with science

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Replies

  • RoxieDawn
    RoxieDawn Posts: 15,490 Member
    TR0berts wrote: »
    RoxieDawn wrote: »
    auddii wrote: »
    RoxieDawn wrote: »
    So we need to post pictures of ourselves (before and after) to prove what exactly? ;)

    I'm actually wondering if this wasn't a ploy for people to post pics for him to creep...

    I think I might be showing too much skin in my profile pic... :(

    Cover up the 'Bama logo and you're good.

    Can't do it! :)
  • NorthCascades
    NorthCascades Posts: 10,968 Member
    Vortex88 wrote: »
    3) Science is just the latest opinion on a subject, albeit a hopefully very educated one. The "science" of weight loss is totally different today compared to 10 years ago. 10 years from now it will be completely different again. Don’t get *too” attached to the studies we have today ;)

    I hear this kind of thing a lot, but people are usually confused when they say it. Usually people read something a writer put in a magazine, and think that's what "science" says. There are great cartoons about this problem.

    When I was born, we knew that people and dinosaurs didn't live at the same time. It's 38 years later, and we don't think LA is overrun with stegosauruses.

    Gravity made heavy things fall toward each other when Newton was investing in Apple stock, and it's still true.

    We knew 100 years ago that rock beats scissors, and it scissors still beat paper.

    Sometimes the scientific consensus changes entirely, but that's pretty rare, except when the old thinking was "we have no idea."
  • Wetcoaster
    Wetcoaster Posts: 1,789 Member
    Wetcoaster wrote: »
    gerg1lh0letv.png

    I can confirm scientifically that arguing with people online does not make me feel like a man of any size.

    Thank goodness :)
  • Wetcoaster
    Wetcoaster Posts: 1,789 Member
    Growing Older but not UP as Jimmy sings......
  • peacelovestone
    peacelovestone Posts: 20 Member
    I love this post! Definitely agree with what you are saying here. I went to school for biology and now am pre-nursing for my second bachelor degree and am so guilty of only wanting to see published studies, but I have seen people defy CICO with my own eyes and know there is much to be interpreted and much lost in fitness/weight loss studies.
    I realize none of us are experts but maybe you can check out my recent post and offer advice. I feel stuck lately.
  • queenliz99
    queenliz99 Posts: 15,317 Member
    Anvil_Head wrote: »
    I love this post! Definitely agree with what you are saying here. I went to school for biology and now am pre-nursing for my second bachelor degree and am so guilty of only wanting to see published studies, but I have seen people defy CICO with my own eyes and know there is much to be interpreted and much lost in fitness/weight loss studies.
    I realize none of us are experts but maybe you can check out my recent post and offer advice. I feel stuck lately.

    Since you don't believe CICO works, sounds like it would be a great time to test out some of your own theories about how weight loss actually happens. In the name of science.

    I love science, yes, I'm intrigued.
  • Vortex88
    Vortex88 Posts: 60 Member
    I love this post! Definitely agree with what you are saying here. I went to school for biology and now am pre-nursing for my second bachelor degree and am so guilty of only wanting to see published studies, but I have seen people defy CICO with my own eyes and know there is much to be interpreted and much lost in fitness/weight loss studies.
    I realize none of us are experts but maybe you can check out my recent post and offer advice. I feel stuck lately.

    Sounds like you have an open mind which is very cool. Some of us are forced to open our minds when our experience cannot be explained by what the studies say. This is how I reached my current beliefs on this subject. Do you have a link to your post? Would love to help if I can.
  • Vortex88
    Vortex88 Posts: 60 Member
    edited September 2016
    Thanks for all the replies. There are some great points being made in here. Let me make some additional points too:

    1) the studies are almost all short term. The CICO idea (which I generally agree with - a lot of people missed that I said that) seems to break down over longer periods of time

    2) a bit of background about me: I am 38 years old, male, very active and have been weight training without a break for almost 22 years with the last 8 years as a full time fitness professional. I really got into training to build muscle in my late teens. I never wanted to be really big but just have a really athletic physique. Anyway, YEARS of frustration followed not because I had trouble building muscle (that was relatively easy for me) but because I had massive trouble getting lean (under 10% BF). I thought I had finally cracked it when I learned about CICO and began to track calories and macros. The early results were very promising (I got quite a but leaner) and I felt like I had found the holy grail.... but then something happened. At a certain point (about 12% BF) I couldn't get any leaner. I dropped calories further, I added a little cardio, then a few less calories, then more cardio eventually getting down to 1200 cals per day with 5 weight training sessions per week and 5 cardio sessions (which was crazy, looking back). At this point I was not losing a single pound and looked like absolute crap. It actually seemed like I was gaining fat which is apparently impossible according to science but I wasn't the only one who noticed this. Feeling totally deflated, I hired a female veteran natural bodybuilding coach who gradually brought my cals back up to 2800 at which point I was MUCH leaner and looked pretty awesome (if I say so myself). During this time my waist went from 33.5" to 31.5". How do you explain that? I am completely open-minded and LOVE to be proven wrong because that's how I learn and grow so there is no attachment to my current beliefs.

    3) I currently have a training client who is male, 6'4", 286 lbs, 30%+ bodyfat, very strong, trains 4 times a week as a powerlifter and has a LOT of weight to lose. He gradually reduced his calories all the way down to 1800 and at this calorie intake this huge guy wasn't losing an ounce. I have reverse-dieted him back up to 2600 cals (we are going up to at least 3500) and, although the weight isn't exactly falling off him the scale is finally moving back down. This client is also a close friend and I have a lot of meals with him and I know exactly what he eats and how much. How do you explain these results with CICO? Again, opinions genuinely welcome.