Nutritional Ketosis and alzheimer's/cancer

leanjogreen18

I posted an article here on the debate thread on a new study that seemed to say a high fat diet can cause cancer to spread faster.

It is a rat study but it seemed to generate some interest. I don't know how to interpret the data though. I am also interested in this information.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fat-fuels-cancers-spread-in-mice1/
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/12/161207132117.htm

psuLemon

leanjogreen18 wrote: »

I posted an article here on the debate thread on a new study that seemed to say a high fat diet can cause cancer to spread faster.

It is a rat study but it seemed to generate some interest. I don't know how to interpret the data though. I am also interested in this information.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fat-fuels-cancers-spread-in-mice1/
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/12/161207132117.htm

I think it goes to show, that cancer is a highly complex animal and depending on the type of cancer you have, will drive the potential results. It's definitely outside of my knowledge based but find it interesting.

GaleHawkins

psuLemon wrote: »

Wanted to start a discussion regarding the use of nutritional ketosis when it comes to alzheimer's and cancer.

Now, let me state that the below video from Biolayne is about Ketosis in general but he discusses some benfits of keto when it comes to the treatment (not prevention of) alzheimer's and cancer (knowing not all cancers are alike). Wanted to see if anyone else had thoughts based on previous reseach.


https://youtu.be/bHXP04ipDx8

Dr. Norton is a plus to his profession for sure.

albertabeefy

leanjogreen18 wrote: »

I posted an article here on the debate thread on a new study that seemed to say a high fat diet can cause cancer to spread faster.

It is a rat study but it seemed to generate some interest. I don't know how to interpret the data though. I am also interested in this information.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fat-fuels-cancers-spread-in-mice1/
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/12/161207132117.htm

Quick FYI - it was a mouse study, not a rat. Though we can't discount them completely, and should use them as possible models for human studies, we need to understand there are problems with mice studies and you can't extrapolate them to humans - you can really only speculate as to what human results would be.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2642860/
http://stm.sciencemag.org/content/4/151/151ps15

There's also huge issue with diet methodology at times: http://www.ucdmc.ucdavis.edu/welcome/features/20080702_diet_warden/

My own thoughts on therapeutic ketogenic diets for various things:
Diabetes, Epilepsy, PCOS, Hashimoto's thyroiditis all show excellent results from VLCKD in individuals that tolerate the diet well.

Cancer and Alzheimer's; Research looks promising in many respects, but we need more with consistent results before we can ever look at modifying policy / positions on medical treatment.

Honestly, if I or a loved one were faced with any of the above, I'd certainly suggest a modification to reduce overall dietary carbohydrate - and especially to eliminate wherever possible refined/processed carbohydrate - as an additional therapy to whatever their medical team prescribes.

Keep in mind I'm of the belief that you can be carbohydrate-restricted whether you eat meat or not. I know a few people who are even keto on a WFPB diet.

leanjogreen18

albertabeefy wrote: »

leanjogreen18 wrote: »

I posted an article here on the debate thread on a new study that seemed to say a high fat diet can cause cancer to spread faster.

It is a rat study but it seemed to generate some interest. I don't know how to interpret the data though. I am also interested in this information.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fat-fuels-cancers-spread-in-mice1/
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/12/161207132117.htm

Quick FYI - it was a mouse study, not a rat. Though we can't discount them completely, and should use them as possible models for human studies, we need to understand there are problems with mice studies and you can't extrapolate them to humans - you can really only speculate as to what human results would be.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2642860/
http://stm.sciencemag.org/content/4/151/151ps15

There's also huge issue with diet methodology at times: http://www.ucdmc.ucdavis.edu/welcome/features/20080702_diet_warden/

My own thoughts on therapeutic ketogenic diets for various things:
Diabetes, Epilepsy, PCOS, Hashimoto's thyroiditis all show excellent results from VLCKD in individuals that tolerate the diet well.

Cancer and Alzheimer's; Research looks promising in many respects, but we need more with consistent results before we can ever look at modifying policy / positions on medical treatment.

Honestly, if I or a loved one were faced with any of the above, I'd certainly suggest a modification to reduce overall dietary carbohydrate - and especially to eliminate wherever possible refined/processed carbohydrate - as an additional therapy to whatever their medical team prescribes.

Keep in mind I'm of the belief that you can be carbohydrate-restricted whether you eat meat or not. I know a few people who are even keto on a WFPB diet.

As to your bolded, respectfully, I know. I misspoke saying rat instead of mouse but the purpose I mentioned "rat study" was so folks would take it with a grain of salt so to speak.

I posted the link above only because it was a very new study that seemed to generate some excitement re metastasis in cancer. Weather it pans out or not is a totally different story, thus the "rat study" comment I made.

I do want to make it clear that I have ZERO issues with people eating meat. I have ZERO issues with a high fat diet, I eat quite a bit of fat in fact.

Because I don't eat meat, which I shared with you on the other thread has ZERO baring on how I feel about what others eat. Caps for emphasis not yelling:).

My apologies in advance if I read too much into your post:).

jagodfrey08

newmeadow wrote: »

I haven't done research. But I work with Alzheimers patients, most in the mid to advanced stages of the disease. And, with few exceptions, they don't eat food. With an hour of coaxing, you might be able to get one to down some ice cream, pudding, candy or a milkshake. But that's about it. I'm NOT saying sugary food causes Alzheimers. But that's definitely the food they favor, if they eat at all.

I helped care for my grandmother before she passed away. She had Alzheimers. Basically all we could her to eat became milkshakes with Carnation Instant Breakfast, ice cream, and fruit added in. She went from real food to soft foods to milkshakes. It was so sad. I'm not sure any type of diet would have reversed it or prevented it. She was health conscious up until her Alzheimers took over.

I know it's anectdotal, but that's my experience.

psuLemon

https://youtu.be/b7Ldxu5wcoE

Another interesting piece between on ketogenic as it relates to cancer

nvmomketo

psuLemon wrote: »

https://youtu.be/b7Ldxu5wcoE

Another interesting piece between on ketogenic as it relates to cancer

That was a good video. Thanks for posting it.

Neither Layne nor Dom are usually easy to watch but together they were quite interesting... But Layne has got to STOP cracking his knuckles. shiver.
LOL

Here's another with Dom D'Agostino

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZSf5OC3aOQ

99LBS4GOD

I have heard that it is an aggressive way to lose weight..but then what do you transition to when you are finished? To me the high protein/fat load and kicking out carbs doesn't make sense. The most balanced approach I have seen is Dr. Fuhrman's Nutritarian diet, although I would add organic protein at a higher level. Basically it means, dump the processed junk food, and eat real whole foods. It makes sense to me to eat what God created and dump the manmade junk. Seems like the Creator of my body would know better than the limited knowledge of those who ignore the obvious. I guess it comes down to calories in/calories out. No shortcuts. That's my opinion. You have to find what works for you. So, I'm calling my diet the ME diet....that means it's what works for ME.

nvmomketo

99LBS4GOD wrote: »

I have heard that it is an aggressive way to lose weight..but then what do you transition to when you are finished? To me the high protein/fat load and kicking out carbs doesn't make sense. The most balanced approach I have seen is Dr. Fuhrman's Nutritarian diet, although I would add organic protein at a higher level. Basically it means, dump the processed junk food, and eat real whole foods. It makes sense to me to eat what God created and dump the manmade junk. Seems like the Creator of my body would know better than the limited knowledge of those who ignore the obvious. I guess it comes down to calories in/calories out. No shortcuts. That's my opinion. You have to find what works for you. So, I'm calling my diet the ME diet....that means it's what works for ME.

Ketogenic diets are not high protein unless someone chooses to raise their protein to that level. It is usually moderate. Most ketogenic diets are based on whole foods:meat, veggies, eggs, seafood, some dairy, low sugar fruit.

When I finished losing weight using a ketogenic diet I stayed ketogenic. When I dabble in raising carbs, it stimulates my appetite and I regain weight.

But this thread is not about ketosis as a weight loss diet. It's about ketosis as a theraputic nutritional tool that may help with some health problems.