Diet soda and water retention?
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singingflutelady wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »does anyone watch 'trust me I'm a doctor' they did an interesting experiment on artificial sweeteners, the 2 main kinds you find in most diet or reduced sugar products. It was on bbc 2 and if anyone uses the streaming service kodi you can get it on there. They found that around half of us have no reaction or adverse affects from consuming these sweeteners but the other half experience a very quick change in gut bacteria and had a less healthy balance of these in their guts. The conclusion was that a healthy gut bacterial balance aided digestion and helped keep your weight at a healthy level and that the changes caused from these sweeteners could have negative implications for those that are trying to lose weight.
Gut bacteria is modified anytime you make sweeping changes in diet. And even then, it can be good, bad or agnostic. Assuming it is always bad, isn't really a good thing.
The point made by this study carried out by the doctors was that the dramatic changes to your gut bacteria caused by artificial sweeteners happen very quickly. The speed of this change to a bacterial balance that is believed to be hard to make such drastic changes to in such a short period of time was very shocking.
Weird since nothing in artificial sweetener would be able to do that, since its components are things you consume in thousands of times higher concentrations every single day.
I have no idea what makes up the sweeteners they tested, Saccharin and Aspartame were the two they looked. I recommend watching the series either in bbc iplayer or kodi, its was called 'Trust me I'm a doctor'. I found it really interesting, they looked at all sorts of things even the effectiveness of protein shakes, food or no food before exercise, main brand diet pills, all sorts really.
Hint: aspartame=amino acids. Amino acids are in all protein.
I'm finally going to say this because all of these conversations irritate me. You can break these artificial sweeteners into their chemical components which is fine and dandy. But individual components are totally different from mixing them together. When you put multiple chemicals together you get different reactions that may or may not be harmful to someone. Baking soda and vinegar apart from each other don't pose a problem for most people (barring allergies, etc.). But I'm going to guess that if someone puts those two in a glass and lets the reaction take place and then drinks it, they aren't likely to feel real great internally. That is a really crude example because in reality that may not be a problem at all (can't say I've ever tried it). My point is that when you combine chemicals you create something new whose reaction can most certainly be dangerous and not healthy. So for everyone that keeps breaking aspartame down into it's chemical components and saying it's just fine, you are being disingenuous. Mix those chemicals together and put them into a body full of chemicals and you most certainly can have a reaction that can make someone sick.
I know exactly what artificial sweeteners did to me and so do the doctors that treated my pancreatitis. They didn't care what the "studies" said, they knew what they were dealing with in front of them with plenty of tests and lab work.
But for those that actually care, keep in mind when someone tries to break artificial sweeteners into their individual components that life just doesn't work that way. Yes, your body will break aspartame down but it does not neatly compartmentalize those components. They are combined (which creates a new chemical), put in food/drinks, you eat/drink it, it reacts with your internal makeup, gets broken down, reacts based on the break down, and then your body goes through the elimination process. That is a really crude/short explanation. But artificial sweeteners do react with your internal make up - whether you feel it physically or not (at that moment) - there is a reaction taking place on a chemical level and it isn't good for the body. Individual amino acids are not the same as a bunch of amino acids and chemicals combined to create a new chemical. If that were the case, they wouldn't create aspartame outside of the body. They'd throw all of it's components in food/drink and let them combine into aspartame inside of people - and yeah, it doesn't work that way.
Back to the original conversation........3 -
my only thought would be constipation. Diet fizzy drinks and non diet ones particularly those with caffeine can act like a diuretic and this can lead to you passing less when you go for a number 2 or just going less frequently or even not at all.
diuretics actually work the opposite way. On a diuretic you lose more water than you should and become dehydrated as a result. You don't retain more. In fact some bodybuilders before shows will take diuretics just to get that extra bit of shredded by "drying" themselves out.1 -
does anyone watch 'trust me I'm a doctor' they did an interesting experiment on artificial sweeteners, the 2 main kinds you find in most diet or reduced sugar products. It was on bbc 2 and if anyone uses the streaming service kodi you can get it on there. They found that around half of us have no reaction or adverse affects from consuming these sweeteners but the other half experience a very quick change in gut bacteria and had a less healthy balance of these in their guts. The conclusion was that a healthy gut bacterial balance aided digestion and helped keep your weight at a healthy level and that the changes caused from these sweeteners could have negative implications for those that are trying to lose weight.
Gut bacteria is modified anytime you make sweeping changes in diet. And even then, it can be good, bad or agnostic. Assuming it is always bad, isn't really a good thing.
The point made by this study carried out by the doctors was that the dramatic changes to your gut bacteria caused by artificial sweeteners happen very quickly. The speed of this change to a bacterial balance that is believed to be hard to make such drastic changes to in such a short period of time was very shocking.
Where in that study do they claim the changes were more "dramatic" than with any other dietary change? In the actual study, not in an article written by someone else about the study (ie the opinion of a blog).1 -
Visit Web MD: Soda is linked to Osteoporosis. Studies have shown 4% lower bone density (hips) in women that consume 3 or more cola's daily.
If by "studies" you mean a single epidemiological study that showed that 60 year old women with habitually lower total calcium-to-phosphorus ratio intake and elevated caffeine intake showed 4% decreased hip bone mineral density (BMD), then sure, I agree. Note that this study shows no difference in BMD for men, no difference in spinal BMD (only the hip BMD results were significant), and no BMD difference related to any non-cola sodas like Sprite:
http://enews.tufts.edu/stories/22/2006/10/20/StudyColaLinkedToLowerBoneDensityInWomen
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/84/4/936.full
Not sure what this has to do with the OP's question, since he is a male curious about water retention.
not to mention correlation isn't the same as causation.2 -
Roughly 250 mg of sodium in 2 lt of Coke Zero ( as an example ).
100 mg of sodium can cause retention of ~ 1 cup of water, which is ~ 0.5 lb.
Therefore : 250 / 100 *.5 = 1.5 lbs ( approx )
So yes, a 3/4 lb gain/day is plausible due to the increased sodium intake associated with drinking all that extra soda.1 -
I'm glad you have decided to cut it out and see how your body reacts- if you suddenly lose the excess weight you'll know it was the soda causing that water retention. You may be agnostic about the healthfulness of diet soda but let your own body be your guide and trust it's reactions to things. Anything that makes you retain several pounds of water is causing a negative effect and not good for you.
I still don't understand why you needed 2 liters a day to help with a sweet craving... I can understand maybe 8 or 12 ounces...
When I have a craving for something sweet I have a chocolate protein shake if I have the calories available for it, or some fresh berries if I have less calories left, or some fruit juice gummies. Maybe an unsweetened or stevia sweetened herbal tea would satisfy too? Something like chai?0 -
Roughly 250 mg of sodium in 2 lt of Coke Zero ( as an example ).
100 mg of sodium can cause retention of ~ 1 cup of water, which is ~ 0.5 lb.
Therefore : 250 / 100 *.5 = 1.5 lbs ( approx )
So yes, a 3/4 lb gain/day is plausible due to the increased sodium intake associated with drinking all that extra soda.
I don't think someone eating at the recommendations of 2300 mg is going to retain an extra 15 pounds of water...1 -
ronjsteele1 wrote: »Get ready for the onslaught. I agree with you 100% but you will never convince anyone here. You'll just get hammered on. Just preparing you.....
For the record OP - I use to drink quite a bit of diet soda and it does make me retain a significant amount of fluid, but I am a water retainer by nature.
Haha you were so right! Oh boy.0 -
ronjsteele1 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »does anyone watch 'trust me I'm a doctor' they did an interesting experiment on artificial sweeteners, the 2 main kinds you find in most diet or reduced sugar products. It was on bbc 2 and if anyone uses the streaming service kodi you can get it on there. They found that around half of us have no reaction or adverse affects from consuming these sweeteners but the other half experience a very quick change in gut bacteria and had a less healthy balance of these in their guts. The conclusion was that a healthy gut bacterial balance aided digestion and helped keep your weight at a healthy level and that the changes caused from these sweeteners could have negative implications for those that are trying to lose weight.
Gut bacteria is modified anytime you make sweeping changes in diet. And even then, it can be good, bad or agnostic. Assuming it is always bad, isn't really a good thing.
The point made by this study carried out by the doctors was that the dramatic changes to your gut bacteria caused by artificial sweeteners happen very quickly. The speed of this change to a bacterial balance that is believed to be hard to make such drastic changes to in such a short period of time was very shocking.
Weird since nothing in artificial sweetener would be able to do that, since its components are things you consume in thousands of times higher concentrations every single day.
I have no idea what makes up the sweeteners they tested, Saccharin and Aspartame were the two they looked. I recommend watching the series either in bbc iplayer or kodi, its was called 'Trust me I'm a doctor'. I found it really interesting, they looked at all sorts of things even the effectiveness of protein shakes, food or no food before exercise, main brand diet pills, all sorts really.
Hint: aspartame=amino acids. Amino acids are in all protein.
I'm finally going to say this because all of these conversations irritate me. You can break these artificial sweeteners into their chemical components which is fine and dandy. But individual components are totally different from mixing them together. When you put multiple chemicals together you get different reactions that may or may not be harmful to someone. Baking soda and vinegar apart from each other don't pose a problem for most people (barring allergies, etc.). But I'm going to guess that if someone puts those two in a glass and lets the reaction take place and then drinks it, they aren't likely to feel real great internally. That is a really crude example because in reality that may not be a problem at all (can't say I've ever tried it). My point is that when you combine chemicals you create something new whose reaction can most certainly be dangerous and not healthy. So for everyone that keeps breaking aspartame down into it's chemical components and saying it's just fine, you are being disingenuous. Mix those chemicals together and put them into a body full of chemicals and you most certainly can have a reaction that can make someone sick.
I know exactly what artificial sweeteners did to me and so do the doctors that treated my pancreatitis. They didn't care what the "studies" said, they knew what they were dealing with in front of them with plenty of tests and lab work.
But for those that actually care, keep in mind when someone tries to break artificial sweeteners into their individual components that life just doesn't work that way. Yes, your body will break aspartame down but it does not neatly compartmentalize those components. They are combined (which creates a new chemical), put in food/drinks, you eat/drink it, it reacts with your internal makeup, gets broken down, reacts based on the break down, and then your body goes through the elimination process. That is a really crude/short explanation. But artificial sweeteners do react with your internal make up - whether you feel it physically or not (at that moment) - there is a reaction taking place on a chemical level and it isn't good for the body. Individual amino acids are not the same as a bunch of amino acids and chemicals combined to create a new chemical. If that were the case, they wouldn't create aspartame outside of the body. They'd throw all of it's components in food/drink and let them combine into aspartame inside of people - and yeah, it doesn't work that way.
Back to the original conversation........
Um, vinegar + baking soda ==Sodium acetate + Water... more or less, harmless.
But, since you bring up chemical reactions of aspartame producing toxic byproducts, care to show me what they are?
1 -
Roughly 250 mg of sodium in 2 lt of Coke Zero ( as an example ).
100 mg of sodium can cause retention of ~ 1 cup of water, which is ~ 0.5 lb.
Therefore : 250 / 100 *.5 = 1.5 lbs ( approx )
So yes, a 3/4 lb gain/day is plausible due to the increased sodium intake associated with drinking all that extra soda.
There is the same amount of sodium in tap water or non-deionized water though. Sodium isn't an additive to soda, its present because it was present in the water used to make the soda.
Just google "sodium in tap water" and the suggested average (it varies city to city) is 9mg per 8oz. Now google "sodium in soda" and the suggested average is 15mg per 12oz. That is the same amount. Sodium is present in soda because they use the city water to produce the soda and there is sodium in the city water. That isn't a bad thing, you want an electrolyte in your water ideally.3 -
ronjsteele1 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »does anyone watch 'trust me I'm a doctor' they did an interesting experiment on artificial sweeteners, the 2 main kinds you find in most diet or reduced sugar products. It was on bbc 2 and if anyone uses the streaming service kodi you can get it on there. They found that around half of us have no reaction or adverse affects from consuming these sweeteners but the other half experience a very quick change in gut bacteria and had a less healthy balance of these in their guts. The conclusion was that a healthy gut bacterial balance aided digestion and helped keep your weight at a healthy level and that the changes caused from these sweeteners could have negative implications for those that are trying to lose weight.
Gut bacteria is modified anytime you make sweeping changes in diet. And even then, it can be good, bad or agnostic. Assuming it is always bad, isn't really a good thing.
The point made by this study carried out by the doctors was that the dramatic changes to your gut bacteria caused by artificial sweeteners happen very quickly. The speed of this change to a bacterial balance that is believed to be hard to make such drastic changes to in such a short period of time was very shocking.
Weird since nothing in artificial sweetener would be able to do that, since its components are things you consume in thousands of times higher concentrations every single day.
I have no idea what makes up the sweeteners they tested, Saccharin and Aspartame were the two they looked. I recommend watching the series either in bbc iplayer or kodi, its was called 'Trust me I'm a doctor'. I found it really interesting, they looked at all sorts of things even the effectiveness of protein shakes, food or no food before exercise, main brand diet pills, all sorts really.
Hint: aspartame=amino acids. Amino acids are in all protein.
I'm finally going to say this because all of these conversations irritate me. You can break these artificial sweeteners into their chemical components which is fine and dandy. But individual components are totally different from mixing them together. When you put multiple chemicals together you get different reactions that may or may not be harmful to someone. Baking soda and vinegar apart from each other don't pose a problem for most people (barring allergies, etc.). But I'm going to guess that if someone puts those two in a glass and lets the reaction take place and then drinks it, they aren't likely to feel real great internally. That is a really crude example because in reality that may not be a problem at all (can't say I've ever tried it). My point is that when you combine chemicals you create something new whose reaction can most certainly be dangerous and not healthy. So for everyone that keeps breaking aspartame down into it's chemical components and saying it's just fine, you are being disingenuous. Mix those chemicals together and put them into a body full of chemicals and you most certainly can have a reaction that can make someone sick.
I know exactly what artificial sweeteners did to me and so do the doctors that treated my pancreatitis. They didn't care what the "studies" said, they knew what they were dealing with in front of them with plenty of tests and lab work.
But for those that actually care, keep in mind when someone tries to break artificial sweeteners into their individual components that life just doesn't work that way. Yes, your body will break aspartame down but it does not neatly compartmentalize those components. They are combined (which creates a new chemical), put in food/drinks, you eat/drink it, it reacts with your internal makeup, gets broken down, reacts based on the break down, and then your body goes through the elimination process. That is a really crude/short explanation. But artificial sweeteners do react with your internal make up - whether you feel it physically or not (at that moment) - there is a reaction taking place on a chemical level and it isn't good for the body. Individual amino acids are not the same as a bunch of amino acids and chemicals combined to create a new chemical. If that were the case, they wouldn't create aspartame outside of the body. They'd throw all of it's components in food/drink and let them combine into aspartame inside of people - and yeah, it doesn't work that way.
Back to the original conversation........
Aspartame is broken down into phenylalanine, aspartate and methanol. You would get the same amount that you receive from the amount of aspartame in a diet soda as you would taking a bite of chicken (phenylalanine and aspartate) and a swig of orange juice (methanol). So if those metabolites "mix" and "recombine" into some sort of "toxic" product the same thing would happen if you drank fruit juice while eating protein. So do you consider drinking fruit juice while eating protein to be dangerous and if not why not? Also what specifically is this toxic product, you left it rather vague.10 -
OP, I have more an opinion on daily weighing than drinking diet soda. Daily weighing just leads to frustration, because of great fluctuations in fluid and what is in your GI tract. I strongly suggest you switch to weekly weighing if small gains upset you. I know they upset me. Best of luck.
Except he said he wasn't bothered, just curious and has no anxiety over what he knows are just normal fluctuations and not fat gain.
Lots of us weigh daily without any anxiety or issue around the numbers we see.4 -
ronjsteele1 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »does anyone watch 'trust me I'm a doctor' they did an interesting experiment on artificial sweeteners, the 2 main kinds you find in most diet or reduced sugar products. It was on bbc 2 and if anyone uses the streaming service kodi you can get it on there. They found that around half of us have no reaction or adverse affects from consuming these sweeteners but the other half experience a very quick change in gut bacteria and had a less healthy balance of these in their guts. The conclusion was that a healthy gut bacterial balance aided digestion and helped keep your weight at a healthy level and that the changes caused from these sweeteners could have negative implications for those that are trying to lose weight.
Gut bacteria is modified anytime you make sweeping changes in diet. And even then, it can be good, bad or agnostic. Assuming it is always bad, isn't really a good thing.
The point made by this study carried out by the doctors was that the dramatic changes to your gut bacteria caused by artificial sweeteners happen very quickly. The speed of this change to a bacterial balance that is believed to be hard to make such drastic changes to in such a short period of time was very shocking.
Weird since nothing in artificial sweetener would be able to do that, since its components are things you consume in thousands of times higher concentrations every single day.
I have no idea what makes up the sweeteners they tested, Saccharin and Aspartame were the two they looked. I recommend watching the series either in bbc iplayer or kodi, its was called 'Trust me I'm a doctor'. I found it really interesting, they looked at all sorts of things even the effectiveness of protein shakes, food or no food before exercise, main brand diet pills, all sorts really.
Hint: aspartame=amino acids. Amino acids are in all protein.
I'm finally going to say this because all of these conversations irritate me. You can break these artificial sweeteners into their chemical components which is fine and dandy. But individual components are totally different from mixing them together. When you put multiple chemicals together you get different reactions that may or may not be harmful to someone. Baking soda and vinegar apart from each other don't pose a problem for most people (barring allergies, etc.). But I'm going to guess that if someone puts those two in a glass and lets the reaction take place and then drinks it, they aren't likely to feel real great internally. That is a really crude example because in reality that may not be a problem at all (can't say I've ever tried it). My point is that when you combine chemicals you create something new whose reaction can most certainly be dangerous and not healthy. So for everyone that keeps breaking aspartame down into it's chemical components and saying it's just fine, you are being disingenuous. Mix those chemicals together and put them into a body full of chemicals and you most certainly can have a reaction that can make someone sick.
I know exactly what artificial sweeteners did to me and so do the doctors that treated my pancreatitis. They didn't care what the "studies" said, they knew what they were dealing with in front of them with plenty of tests and lab work.
But for those that actually care, keep in mind when someone tries to break artificial sweeteners into their individual components that life just doesn't work that way. Yes, your body will break aspartame down but it does not neatly compartmentalize those components. They are combined (which creates a new chemical), put in food/drinks, you eat/drink it, it reacts with your internal makeup, gets broken down, reacts based on the break down, and then your body goes through the elimination process. That is a really crude/short explanation. But artificial sweeteners do react with your internal make up - whether you feel it physically or not (at that moment) - there is a reaction taking place on a chemical level and it isn't good for the body. Individual amino acids are not the same as a bunch of amino acids and chemicals combined to create a new chemical. If that were the case, they wouldn't create aspartame outside of the body. They'd throw all of it's components in food/drink and let them combine into aspartame inside of people - and yeah, it doesn't work that way.
Back to the original conversation........
Sorry to side track but what intactions or how did aspartame caused pancreatitis? This is the first i heard about that possibilty and my wife spend 2 years in and out of 7 hospitals with a severe case of it.2 -
OP, I have more an opinion on daily weighing than drinking diet soda. Daily weighing just leads to frustration, because of great fluctuations in fluid and what is in your GI tract. I strongly suggest you switch to weekly weighing if small gains upset you. I know they upset me. Best of luck.
Been weighing myself daily for about a year now, so I think I can mentally handle a few natural fluctuations! Was just curious as to whether anyone else had the same experience.
2 -
Since Sunday I have gradually put on weight at a rate of around 0.75lb per day. I'm experienced enough to know this is not fat gain since I have been eating at a deficit for a few weeks. The only real change to my diet this week has been drinking quite a lot of diet soda (about 2 litres per day). I weigh myself every day and go by my average weight so I not freaking out over the gain, but I am curious whether anyone else has noticed water retention/bloating after drinking diet drinks.
Why don't you eat the same exact food you ate since Sunday, and drink 2 litres of water per day instead of 2 litres of diet soda? Good science experiment.1 -
I eat pretty similar stuff most of the time, but I have cut the soda out completely today. Will see what happens over the next few days......gonetothedogs19 wrote: »Why don't you eat the same exact food you ate since Sunday, and drink 2 litres of water per day instead of 2 litres of diet soda? Good science experiment.
1 -
I eat pretty similar stuff most of the time, but I have cut the soda out completely today. Will see what happens over the next few days......gonetothedogs19 wrote: »Why don't you eat the same exact food you ate since Sunday, and drink 2 litres of water per day instead of 2 litres of diet soda? Good science experiment.
If you want to check your hypotheses you should probably cycle this a few times to validate if it occurs often. Its funny because mid week i tend to not lose weight but by sunday my weight drops. It may be because i eat higher calories on saturdays but it works consistently.1 -
I eat pretty similar stuff most of the time, but I have cut the soda out completely today. Will see what happens over the next few days......gonetothedogs19 wrote: »Why don't you eat the same exact food you ate since Sunday, and drink 2 litres of water per day instead of 2 litres of diet soda? Good science experiment.
If you want to check your hypotheses you should probably cycle this a few times to validate if it occurs often. Its funny because mid week i tend to not lose weight but by sunday my weight drops. It may be because i eat higher calories on saturdays but it works consistently.
Similar: I routinely see losses Wed, Thur, Fri then hold (or gain) Sat, Sun, Mon.0 -
FWIW weighed in this morning 1.8lbs lighter. Whether that's down to no diet soda or some other confounding factors IDK....1
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