Muscle pain with weights
JulieSHelms
Posts: 821 Member
I've been using weight machines since July. First time in my life for doing anything with weights (I'm 50). In July, I was pretty shocked how weak my legs were--apparently carrying around 300 lbs for a decade does not strong legs make.
Anyway, I've come a long way with the weights in my lower body and abs. I put the weight up as high as I can budge it and the amounts have steadily increased over the weeks. I've almost tripled every weight in 4 months. I never have any leg or ab soreness during the workout or the next day.
Upper body, mainly arms--biceps/triceps, is a different story. Like everything else, they were very weak to start with--like I have the setting on the lightest the machine has. But the exercises hurt while I'm doing them and my arms hurt like crazy for days afterwards. I only do upper body twice a week. I've stopped doing the bicep and tricep machines altogether, and just do the chest and shoulder presses, pull downs and rowing, that seem to use all the muscles together. I'm still doing very light weight (I've moved up one notch from 15 to 30 lbs) after almost 4 months now! To look at my arms, I can SEE the muscle building there--they look stronger than they have ever been in my life. And I have some ridges of muscles showing up in my forearms where I didn't know muscle existed. So even the pathetic amount of weight I'm moving is working--but WHY does it hurt so much and for days afterwards? Also, I do swim laps 2x per week. My arms don't hurt while doing that, but are sore afterwards.
I'm assuming pain like this is not a good thing. Do I just keep backing off--upper body just once a week? Go back to minimum weight?
Another thing on my mind about this: I had a bad reaction to an antibiotic (Levaquin) a few years back--caused a ripping/stinging sensation through these same muscles. It stopped as soon as I stopped taking it--only lasted a day or two at most. So I guess what I'm really wondering is, does my arm muscle pain sound like normal progression for someone new to weights, or is something else going on?
Anyway, I've come a long way with the weights in my lower body and abs. I put the weight up as high as I can budge it and the amounts have steadily increased over the weeks. I've almost tripled every weight in 4 months. I never have any leg or ab soreness during the workout or the next day.
Upper body, mainly arms--biceps/triceps, is a different story. Like everything else, they were very weak to start with--like I have the setting on the lightest the machine has. But the exercises hurt while I'm doing them and my arms hurt like crazy for days afterwards. I only do upper body twice a week. I've stopped doing the bicep and tricep machines altogether, and just do the chest and shoulder presses, pull downs and rowing, that seem to use all the muscles together. I'm still doing very light weight (I've moved up one notch from 15 to 30 lbs) after almost 4 months now! To look at my arms, I can SEE the muscle building there--they look stronger than they have ever been in my life. And I have some ridges of muscles showing up in my forearms where I didn't know muscle existed. So even the pathetic amount of weight I'm moving is working--but WHY does it hurt so much and for days afterwards? Also, I do swim laps 2x per week. My arms don't hurt while doing that, but are sore afterwards.
I'm assuming pain like this is not a good thing. Do I just keep backing off--upper body just once a week? Go back to minimum weight?
Another thing on my mind about this: I had a bad reaction to an antibiotic (Levaquin) a few years back--caused a ripping/stinging sensation through these same muscles. It stopped as soon as I stopped taking it--only lasted a day or two at most. So I guess what I'm really wondering is, does my arm muscle pain sound like normal progression for someone new to weights, or is something else going on?
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Replies
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Actual pain, either while doing an exercise or afterward, is not normal. Even afterward, pain is not good, though a bit of muscle soreness is okay. My guess is that the machines' paths are not right for you. That is, when you use a machine you are tied into using the exact angle that it requires you to use. If you are shorter or taller or have longer or shorter arms than what it was made for, it's not going to fit you correctly. I run into this at home. I have a multigym that I use for lat pulldowns only. The other upper body exercises it can do--flys and chest press--I think are set up for somebody who is 5'9"-5'11". (Guessing at height based on seeing my 6'2" husband try to use it.)
I would suggest moving from the machines (except lat pulldown) into free weights for upper body. You can use dumbbells to do shoulder presses, bench press, and rows, as well as biceps or triceps if you'd like to add those back in.2 -
Actual pain, either while doing an exercise or afterward, is not normal. Even afterward, pain is not good, though a bit of muscle soreness is okay. My guess is that the machines' paths are not right for you. That is, when you use a machine you are tied into using the exact angle that it requires you to use. If you are shorter or taller or have longer or shorter arms than what it was made for, it's not going to fit you correctly. I run into this at home. I have a multigym that I use for lat pulldowns only. The other upper body exercises it can do--flys and chest press--I think are set up for somebody who is 5'9"-5'11". (Guessing at height based on seeing my 6'2" husband try to use it.)
I would suggest moving from the machines (except lat pulldown) into free weights for upper body. You can use dumbbells to do shoulder presses, bench press, and rows, as well as biceps or triceps if you'd like to add those back in.
That's interesting--I never thought about the machines being at the wrong path for me. I'm 5'8" which is pretty middlin' for men and women's heights together, but that does make sense. I forgot about the flys--I only did those a few times and they were excruciating.
I go to Planet Fitness. I'll see if there is someone there who can show me how to do the free weights. I've avoided them because of a history of back injury/surgeries and the machines give good back support, but I think what I'm doing isn't good. Thanks for the insight.0 -
JulieSHelms wrote: »So even the pathetic amount of weight I'm moving is working--but WHY does it hurt so much and for days afterwards?
How many sets and repetitions do you do for biceps & triceps? And how many sets & reps for each of the other upper body exercises?0 -
Cherimoose wrote: »JulieSHelms wrote: »So even the pathetic amount of weight I'm moving is working--but WHY does it hurt so much and for days afterwards?
How many sets and repetitions do you do for biceps & triceps? And how many sets & reps for each of the other upper body exercises?
Pretty much all around I do 3 sets of 10 reps...though fewer once the pain sets in. With my legs there is never pain--just eventual tiredness or they won't budge anymore. The arms--screamin' pain.
I did make an appointment with a personal trainer today to see what he has to say.0 -
In general women do have a propensity to lower upper body strength. Your legs will have had better muscle strength just carrying you around than your upper body, so don't worry about that discrepancy.
Is it DOMS or other muscle pain?
Did you have an intro session where you were shown how to use the machines correctly?
Going to see a PT is a good idea especially if you are not comfortable using free weights. Have him build you a programme that will progress over time. Don't worry if you start on incredibly low weights, it takes time to build form and strength.
If you are eating at a deficit make sure you have a good protein level. .8-1g per lbs of ideal body weight. It will help with muscle retention and may help in your muscle recovery.
I have used the machines that you have listed and the only one I have a problem with is the new chest press at the gym, it is too high so I sit on a block. Otherwise at 5'1 I don't have a problem with them. I don't think it is your height perse, but you may need to adjust to suit, I always do.
You may also feel better doing more sets with less reps and a good 60-90 sec rest between sets.
An alternate is to do your workout circuit style. This would give your muscles a break between use.
I hope you update us after the training session. I would be interested to hear your plan.
Cheers, h.1 -
i'm 51. started lifting a few months before i turned 49. i'm just a layperson so please do talk to the trainers. my two cents' though:
- are you warming up first? no matter what you're lifting, high or low weights, you should always do warmup sets first at really light weights, just to introduce your muscles to the movement pattern and . . . well, warm them up. trainer should be able to help you with that, so i won't bore you unless asked.
- i always get delayed onset muscle soreness from bench press. always. it matters not how 'used' my body has gotten to doing it, that lift always gives me a few days of delayed soreness afterwards. when it hurts me during a workout, i stop. or if i don't stop, at least i'm aware taht i should and i'm being stupid by carrying on
more generally, about your pain - these guidelines have worked pretty well for me.
- being a little stiff or sore for the first few sets happens to me sometimes, which is why warmup sets are so good. if the pain improves and then goes away while i continue my workout, then i'm not bothered.
BUT when pain is brought on by the exercise and then gets worse as you continue to do the exercise, STOP. it's not only 'allowed' for you to quit when it hurts; it's smart and the right choice to make.
i agree too that machines aren't the best way to do things because of the forced movement paths on some of them.1 -
@middlehaitch
I have pain during the workout that is sharp and pain for up to 4 days following that is dull and achey. It is definitely worse on my right arm (both during and later) which seems weird since I'm right-handed and I'd expect it to be stronger.middlehaitch wrote: »
Is it DOMS or other muscle pain?
No, my daughters showed me. I'll have the trainer go over it.Did you have an intro session where you were shown how to use the machines correctly?
Are you serious about this number?? MFP has me at 65 grams which I adjusted up to from their original lower amount. But based on your formula I should be at more than twice that at a minimum!If you are eating at a deficit make sure you have a good protein level. .8-1g per lbs of ideal body weight. It will help with muscle retention and may help in your muscle recovery.
My appt is Thursday and I'll let you know what he says. Thanks for the input!I hope you update us after the training session. I would be interested to hear your plan.
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@canadianlbs
I always do 25 minutes of cardio before I hit the machines so overall I'm extremely warmed up (and dripping wet) but not specifically the muscles in question.canadianlbs wrote: »
- are you warming up first?
Yes, thanks for confirming--this is just common sense. Just want to know why I have the pain at such low levels of effort. I'll let you know what the trainer says. Thanks!BUT when pain is brought on by the exercise and then gets worse as you continue to do the exercise, STOP. it's not only 'allowed' for you to quit when it hurts; it's smart and the right choice to make.
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if it were me I would try bodyweight training and see if you still get the pain. if so then you may need to see someone to figure out what is causing the pain.hoping you find a trainer worth his/her salt. some dont know jack.0
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JulieSHelms wrote: »]I have pain during the workout that is sharp and pain for up to 4 days following that is dull and achey. It is definitely worse on my right arm (both during and later) which seems weird since I'm right-handed and I'd expect it to be stronger.
i may be assuming based on personal experience. but this kind of sounds like impingement - i.e. soft tissue getting trapped between two bones as they move through the range of whatever exercise you're doing. it happens because the bones themselves are not optimally aligned with each other.
so:
your cardio warmup is great in a general sense. but it's a really good idea to also do a few mobility warmups where you take your joints through the range of motion you're going to use - BEFORE you add any effort or weight. that prepares your muscles, lets you notice if anything is catching or pinching so you can adjust and make space around that joint - or just abandon the exercise for that day if you can't. it also gets your nervous system ready to do it 'right' once you do add the weight.
warmup sets are essential. that's when you do the exercise with weight, but just a small percentage of the weight you're going to be 'working' with. this is for barbell lifting, but iirc the formula my trainer gave me was:
take the weight you're going to be working at.
subtract the weight of the bar (this is the lightest you can go if you're using the bar. idk what it would be in your case).
divide the difference into at least 3 increments.
do a single set with the bar, then a single set with each of those weight increments. this gives you three or four warmup sets and should bring you up to around your work weight. this way you can get started on the real work without making too much of a jump.
idk what biceps and triceps machines are
but for what it's worth, you use those muscles in the pulldowns and presses as well, so perhaps they're not even necessary.
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A sharp pain really shouldn't be happening. I would seriously think about talking to your doc if you and the trainer don't solve the problem. The dull post-workout ache sounds like DOMS but can't be sure with the sharp pain.
The medication you were on- check and see if there is any nuropathic tendency as a side effect. (I'm not a doc)
Not sure what you are doing for a warm up. If it is a treadmill or bicycle type machine you are not engaging your upper body too much.
Try the rowing machine. It will work the upper body, and help you get your abs and glutes better engaged too.
I only do it for 5-10 min as a warm up at a slower pace. If I am using it for cardio I do it on my non lifting days- with gusto.
About the protein, yes I am serious.
I eat between 80-100g and weigh 102 lbs. (obviously tiny and in maintenance.).
Look at a BMI chart and eat the number of grams that is the mid weight lbs.
ie: you weigh 210lbs now the mid range BMI for your height is 130lbs, you would eat 130g protein.
The MFP base is the bare minimum for a sedentary person.
Just a little note,
trainers are not nutritionists, if the person you see tries to change your diet significantly, and you are happy with what you are doing now, and the calories you are eating, stick with what is working for you.
(That sounds silly when I am saying up your protein, but one does need more for muscle health when losing and lifting)
Cheers, h.1 -
I'm assuming the pain is centered around a joint like shoulder or wrist? If so then there could be a joint issue that may require you to work around it - free weights can possibly help you here. Like others have said, sharp pain means stop. You also shouldn't really experience muscle stiffness after weights - fatigue and soreness yes, but you shouldn't be stiff - not sure if that's an issue for you but when my shoulder gets stiff it means my tendinitis flared up. If you're feeling frustrated that you can't achieve the workout you want due to pain, I would honestly call the doctor for a better diagnosis. I have shoulder issues that crop up but am able to usually work around them and still get some resistance training in.0
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@JulieSHelms
Have you read this post?
I thought it was relevant to your muscle problem. Nerve nuropathy, impingement, pinching. A visit to the doc may well be in order.
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10469678/wish-i-knew-about-this-potential-problem/p1
Cheers, h.0 -
I'm thinking this is a medical issue unrelated to the weights (except being exacerbated by them). Tonight at the gym I sat down at the chest press, put it on the lightest weight possible and pushed slowly. I could feel a burn zing up my arm about 4-5" along my bicep on the first press. I could follow the sting pressing my finger along it. I just did the one press. It had been 4 days since I worked out my arms. I'll see what the trainer recommends but my sinking feeling is something else is going on.I'm assuming the pain is centered around a joint like shoulder or wrist? If so then there could be a joint issue that may require you to work around it - free weights can possibly help you here. Like others have said, sharp pain means stop. You also shouldn't really experience muscle stiffness after weights - fatigue and soreness yes, but you shouldn't be stiff - not sure if that's an issue for you but when my shoulder gets stiff it means my tendinitis flared up. If you're feeling frustrated that you can't achieve the workout you want due to pain, I would honestly call the doctor for a better diagnosis. I have shoulder issues that crop up but am able to usually work around them and still get some resistance training in.
It's actually centered in the middle of the muscle, not near the joint. I have a history of auto-immune joint problems so I'm pretty familiar with tendonitis, bursitis, and arthritis--this is different. It really feels like muscle pain. No stiffness either.
@middlehaitch Thanks for the protein info--my BMI middle normal is 150...so I'll have to see what 150g of protein looks like--sounds like a really big juicy steak!
Thank you everyone for your input. It helped me to really examine what is going on here. I'll report back what the trainer says on Thursday.
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JulieSHelms wrote: »my sinking feeling is something else is going on
mine too. i have r.a. - at least in theory; i'm lucky right now with the flares. i think an arm zing merits a doctor, or at least a physio. i actually think that all things being equal, i'd head for a physio first. i really really really don't want to diagnose you by internet, but zings sounds like nerve stuff and i have this feeling a g.p. wouldn't do much more than confirm that and then refer you downstream.
however, it's by no means the end of the world. free weights might be just the right thing - if for instance the machine is forcing you into using the one motion pathway out of all the possible ones that is setting this off.
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canadianlbs wrote: »JulieSHelms wrote: »my sinking feeling is something else is going on
mine too. i have r.a. - at least in theory; i'm lucky right now with the flares. i think an arm zing merits a doctor, or at least a physio. i actually think that all things being equal, i'd head for a physio first. i really really really don't want to diagnose you by internet, but zings sounds like nerve stuff and i have this feeling a g.p. wouldn't do much more than confirm that and then refer you downstream.
however, it's by no means the end of the world. free weights might be just the right thing - if for instance the machine is forcing you into using the one motion pathway out of all the possible ones that is setting this off.
Dumb question...what's a physio?0 -
physiotherapist, sorry. sometimes called physical therapist too.
they're movement specialists who can be very helpful at isolating what's causing a problem and providing exercises to fix the problem.1 -
I saw the trainer today--very successful. He didn't particularly know what my issue was but agreed that I needed to stop using the machines and he narrowed it down to the ones where the bicep muscle is involved. So he showed me how to use the free weights and wrote up a schedule for me. He put me on really low weight to start off, but I had ZERO pain. I'm a little sore now, but I went into the session sore (from last FRIDAY) so I think it's fine.
I am hopeful the problem is solved! (And this should get me over my nervousness about venturing into the free weight section of the gym real fast--you know middle aged, overweight, female...could I be any more alien?? ) 1 -
Great that you had a successful session @JulieSHelms.
Take the weight increase progression slower than normal so you get the movement (form) correct first, and you can really focus on when and if the pain reoccurs.
Off to the docs if it does.
Don't be nervous about being in the free weight section of the gym. I'm a tiny old lady and I strut in there as if I have been lifting for years. Sometimes you just have to give yourself the confidence- it may not come naturally.
I keep a notebook with my routine listed and fill it out as I am going along. It is really useful. Not only can I see how well I am progressing, or not, I also note how I am feeling if I don't manage to do what I am expecting.
If you are not doing this, you may find it helpful as you can track DOMS and non DOMS aches and pains, and if you do need to go to the doc, or make changes you will be able to pin point the problem moves better.
Well done for working through and getting the trainer.
Cheers, h.1 -
@middlehaitch Thanks for the suggestion of the notebook--I like that. And thanks so much for the encouragement. I really appreciate it. 1
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JulieSHelms wrote: »you know middle aged, overweight, female...could I be any more alien?? )
yeah, if you were a gym bro at a knitting guild. it's about the same feeling.
it's intimidating and scary but you are so in. congrats on reaching out to that trainer instead of just slinking around feeling scared. and believe me - the world's gyms are full of middle-aged 'overweight' women and we're killing it.
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Just wanted to update. After two weeks of using free weights for upper body (every other day), I am completely pain-free. That zinging, burning pain in my bicep is gone. So I think it is safe to say the machines were a bad fit for me. I did use them once again when I did the circuit at PF, but it was fine this time--I think it was a cumulative buildup that did it. So I hope to be able to do that circuit every other week just as a change of pace.
Another small victory--I am over my fear of walking into that section of the gym now. It was a little embarrassing at first--the trainer had me using the Smith Machine with NO weight on it till my bicep healed (the bar weighs 15 lbs alone) and twice guys approached me to let me know, "hey, you're supposed to put weights on the bar." I was never so happy as when I could slip the tiny 2.5 lb weights on there so it didn't look quite as dumb. Lol! But it's all good now. 7 -
yay!1
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So glad to hear everything is going well and the pain has gone.
The free weight area loses its intimidation factor once you have got the hang of where everything is and how to use it.
Thanks for the update.
Cheers, h.
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