Can I gain muscle while in deficit
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rockykim92
Posts: 1 Member
205lb 5ft 11inch been eating at a 300 to 500 deficit. Hit my macros, is it possible to gain muscle while in a deficit or am i simply maintaining. Id like to lose weight but not at the cost of losing muscle mass.
I weight train an hour daily. Thank you for your responses!
I weight train an hour daily. Thank you for your responses!
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Replies
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I Believe this was the article i read regarding weight loss while in your deficit. http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/fat_loss_muscle_gain_trick.htm
They generally recommend HIT training because its generally something your body isn't use to.1 -
I lost fat and gained muscle at the same time, more fat lost than muscle gained, so I was definitely in a deficit. It was a very small deficit though, probably less than 200 calories, and that was only because my maintenance calories were underestimated, not because I was intentionally eating at a deficit.2
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In simple words no. You require a caloric surplus to build muscle. If you are a woman (sorry can't tell from your name), then it is even less likely as even with optimum conditions you could hope to earn 0.5lbs of muscle a month.3
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It's very difficult if at all possible. If you are a new lifter and have a very small deficit it could be possible since you'll be in a surplus for a bit during the day but it's really hard especially if you are in a larger deficit and 500 is fairly large. In order to build muscle you must have muscle stimulation, adequate protein and enough food to overcome the down regulators in your muscles. Our bodies are designed to favour protein in other cells before skeletal muscle during times of famine so it will fight against any gain while it feels you are starving but a small deficit might be enough for you to overcome and gain a bit.4
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Yes it's entirely possible to gain muscle in a very small deficit and not at all uncommon.
Especially so as you are young and male.
Assuming effective training and adequate protein intake other factors are your training, your training history, your current state, your genetics.....
http://muscleandstrengthpyramids.com/calorie-deficit-gain-weight/
It's far easier not to though!7 -
cgreen120288 wrote: »Yes it's entirely possible to gain muscle in a very small deficit and not at all uncommon.
Especially so as you are young and male.
Assuming effective training and adequate protein intake other factors are your training, your training history, your current state, your genetics.....
http://muscleandstrengthpyramids.com/calorie-deficit-gain-weight/
It's far easier not to though!
Newbie gains
Read the article and referenced studies. No, it is not all newbie gains.2 -
@cgreen120288cgreen120288 wrote: »Yes it's entirely possible to gain muscle in a very small deficit and not at all uncommon.
Especially so as you are young and male.
Assuming effective training and adequate protein intake other factors are your training, your training history, your current state, your genetics.....
http://muscleandstrengthpyramids.com/calorie-deficit-gain-weight/
It's far easier not to though!
Newbie gains
Far, far wider than just newbies!
It was dead easy for me in my teens and 20's. Just trained and dieted, It's what the majority did in the 70's & 80's.
It was dead easy recovering from injury in my 30's.
It was initially relatively easy in my 50's coming back from a low point. Getting back to previous state ("newbie gains" aren't just once in a lifetime thing).
It was really hard later on when I got back to what I would regard as normal strength/muscle levels. That's after 4 decades of training. Had to come down to a tiny deficit (1lb/month) though.
Can still do it now with exceptionally heavy training and care over my diet, event preparation. (Novel training stimulus.)2 -
cgreen120288 wrote: »cgreen120288 wrote: »Yes it's entirely possible to gain muscle in a very small deficit and not at all uncommon.
Especially so as you are young and male.
Assuming effective training and adequate protein intake other factors are your training, your training history, your current state, your genetics.....
http://muscleandstrengthpyramids.com/calorie-deficit-gain-weight/
It's far easier not to though!
Newbie gains
Read the article and referenced studies. No, it is not all newbie gains.
Not all, but most. "much more in untrained, new lifters"
That is fine but your post seemed to insinuate that it is only possible with newbs, which is not the case. It is an oft-repeated fallacy that only newbs can gain muscle in a deficit.3 -
I've definitely gotten stronger, much stronger, while eating at a deficit (500 calories). I've progressively upped my weights and can now do pull ups. Is this not evidence of gaining muscle? Im not trying to challenge the science here, just trying to understand.3
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cgreen120288 wrote: »Yes it's entirely possible to gain muscle in a very small deficit and not at all uncommon.
Especially so as you are young and male.
Assuming effective training and adequate protein intake other factors are your training, your training history, your current state, your genetics.....
http://muscleandstrengthpyramids.com/calorie-deficit-gain-weight/
It's far easier not to though!
Newbie gains
Read the article and referenced studies. No, it is not all newbie gains.
I've seen that study referenced before but that's a recomp with a slight deficit, not a weight loss study and the idea is that you go above and below maintenance so you gain muscle while going above. Another issue is that most consumed fat weight leaves the body in the forum of carbon dioxide but that's not addressed in their model of how energy leaves the body.
The problem I have with the studies is that they don't differentiate between LBM and muscle gain. Fact is, much of the gain is likely water rather than muscle from a build up of cortisol during the diet. Now, you can certainly gain strength in the absence of muscle gain as well, so gaining strength isn't proof of gain of muscle either.
You can certainly recomp over time but these studies are far to short and don't offer enough resolution on what's going on. I'd like to know which actually used biopsy and which used double labeled water or metabolic wards to better control since the caloric deficits were so slight.
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emilysusana wrote: »I've definitely gotten stronger, much stronger, while eating at a deficit (500 calories). I've progressively upped my weights and can now do pull ups. Is this not evidence of gaining muscle? Im not trying to challenge the science here, just trying to understand.
No, strength gains, particularly new exercise gains, are do to both muscle fibre and neurological coordination so you can increase strength a lot just by improving neurological efficiencies. Most newbies can gain tremendously on their lifts in the first few months but they won't have much muscle fibre synthesis.
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cgreen120288 wrote: »
@cgreen120288cgreen120288 wrote: »Yes it's entirely possible to gain muscle in a very small deficit and not at all uncommon.
Especially so as you are young and male.
Assuming effective training and adequate protein intake other factors are your training, your training history, your current state, your genetics.....
http://muscleandstrengthpyramids.com/calorie-deficit-gain-weight/
It's far easier not to though!
Newbie gains
Far, far wider than just newbies!
It was dead easy for me in my teens and 20's. Just trained and dieted, It's what the majority did in the 70's & 80's.
It was dead easy recovering from injury in my 30's.
It was initially relatively easy in my 50's coming back from a low point. Getting back to previous state ("newbie gains" aren't just once in a lifetime thing).
It was really hard later on when I got back to what I would regard as normal strength/muscle levels. That's after 4 decades of training. Had to come down to a tiny deficit (1lb/month) though.
Can still do it now with exceptionally heavy training and care over my diet, event preparation. (Novel training stimulus.)
The second half of the post is based on muscle memory am i correct? If so, then it's not what the OP is asking. He's asking can he gain muscle in a deficit. Im an advocate of cut and bulk rather than recomp, but hey ho.
No - only partly returning to previous levels (I dislike using term muscle memory!).
As a 24 year old male the OP can gain muscle relatively easily - tail end of the golden years.
I started in an era when bulk/cut cycles were the sole preserve of body builders - I never met anyone in my youth doing them. Gaining muscle while losing weight was totally normal and expected.
There's a very general skewed perception on this site that people can't use their fat stores to make up for a (small) calorie deficit.
Maybe because there's more advanced lifters on here? The ones that would struggle the most and have to optimise everything to make progress.
"In the real world" people are generally undertrained and have plenty of easy potential muscle building as long as they train properly. Diet, calories in particular, is over-emphasized IMHO, important for advanced goals, not so much for the general population.4 -
Wheelhouse15 wrote: »emilysusana wrote: »I've definitely gotten stronger, much stronger, while eating at a deficit (500 calories). I've progressively upped my weights and can now do pull ups. Is this not evidence of gaining muscle? Im not trying to challenge the science here, just trying to understand.
No, strength gains, particularly new exercise gains, are do to both muscle fibre and neurological coordination so you can increase strength a lot just by improving neurological efficiencies. Most newbies can gain tremendously on their lifts in the first few months but they won't have much muscle fibre synthesis.
Thanks- I've never heard this explained before. Follow-up question: I've been working hard at building strength partly so I don't lose lean muscle mass while losing fat. Is this at least possible at a deficit? I eat plenty of protein.1 -
Got to dash but a couple of interesting studies if people are interested.....
Overweight (26% body fat) police officers starting a weight training program lost 9.3 pounds of fat and gained 8.8 pounds of lean body mass in 12 weeks.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10838463
(I know gains were LBM not muscle - but remember they were in a deficit so unlikely to gain glycogen / water you would have thought over 12 weeks of dieting.)
Elite non-strength athletes
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21558571
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I did it for a few months, but became busy again and unable to devote time to regular strength training. My schedule has just recently opened up and I'm working on a new plan to do the same. I did it with a high rep. (in some cases, as much as 1 set of 50) plan as endurance was as much or more important than strength.
The one thing that made the biggest difference, in my experience during that time, was protein intake. Eating at a deficit made it really hard to get enough protein within calorie goals. I aimed for 1g / lb. of total body weight. I almost always reached 0.7g / lb., and got to 1g / lb. more than 1/2 the time. I also used BCAA's to supplement protein intake.
So in short, your macros will be really tough because to get to calorie goals with sufficient protein in a deficit, you will need to cut carbs and fat. Timing of your carbs might help too (right before workouts if possible).
That is just sharing what worked for me. Others might have different answers. For me, nutrition played a huge role in making muscle gains during a deficit.1 -
emilysusana wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »emilysusana wrote: »I've definitely gotten stronger, much stronger, while eating at a deficit (500 calories). I've progressively upped my weights and can now do pull ups. Is this not evidence of gaining muscle? Im not trying to challenge the science here, just trying to understand.
No, strength gains, particularly new exercise gains, are do to both muscle fibre and neurological coordination so you can increase strength a lot just by improving neurological efficiencies. Most newbies can gain tremendously on their lifts in the first few months but they won't have much muscle fibre synthesis.
Thanks- I've never heard this explained before. Follow-up question: I've been working hard at building strength partly so I don't lose lean muscle mass while losing fat. Is this at least possible at a deficit? I eat plenty of protein.
You will likely still lose a bit of muscle, but lifting and proper protein intake will certainly minimize the effects. If you hit a small surplus once a week that should also help a bit.0 -
My understanding:
- Can you: Yes.
- Will you: Maybe, it depends on a lot of factors of which current condition is probably the greatest influence.
- Will it be a significant amount: No.
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StealthHealth wrote: »My understanding:
- Can you: Yes.
- Will you: Maybe, it depends on a lot of factors of which current condition is probably the greatest influence.
- Will it be a significant amount: No.
Summarised perfectly.2 -
Despite what gets repeated on here, yes. You can build muscle in a calorie deficit. I have done it and I have seen plenty of others do it. The real question is how much you can build which is influenced by a variety of factors. Now, it is more difficult but it is entirely possible.4
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I think people always confuse strength with building muscle, they think because they are going to the gym, and getting a lot stronger even though they are in a deficit that they are building muscle. Add to that, once you lose the fat on it, your muscles just look bigger, and they are usually filled with more fluid since you are working them out so much. This is usually why people think they are building muscle in a deficit.6
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