Calories in/Calories out vs. low carb

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  • H_Ock12
    H_Ock12 Posts: 1,152 Member
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    40lbs and counting with calorie deficit. 5-10lbs to go...gonna keep doing what's working!

    I do try to stay under my carb goal and meet/exceed my protein goal. Just a personal preference that makes my body feel better.
  • the_new_mark_2017
    the_new_mark_2017 Posts: 149 Member
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    MotherOfSharpei wrote: »
    40lbs and counting with calorie deficit. 5-10lbs to go...gonna keep doing what's working!

    I do try to stay under my carb goal and meet/exceed my protein goal. Just a personal preference that makes my body feel better.

    How long has this taken your @MotherOfSharpei
  • savithny
    savithny Posts: 1,200 Member
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    GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »
    DebSozo wrote: »
    Age, genetics and dieting affect rmr (resting metabolic rate)
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.healthydietadvisor.com/resting-metabolic-rate/amp/

    RMR doesn't matter for weight loss. TDEE is where it's at.

    Also, dieting will of course decrease your RMR because you become a smaller person. Just like a smaller house uses less oil to heat, a smaller person has a lower RMR to function.


    Um, TDEE is a function of RMR. Lower RMR=Lower TDEE, for the same amount of other activity.

    Dieting does not just reduce RMR because you become smaller. There is an additional penalty.

    Google-Scholaring "Reduced Obese" will get some discussions of this.
  • H_Ock12
    H_Ock12 Posts: 1,152 Member
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    the_new_mark_2016 wrote: »
    MotherOfSharpei wrote: »
    40lbs and counting with calorie deficit. 5-10lbs to go...gonna keep doing what's working!

    I do try to stay under my carb goal and meet/exceed my protein goal. Just a personal preference that makes my body feel better.

    How long has this taken your @MotherOfSharpei

    @the_new_mark_2016 It's taken roughly 6.5 months to lose the 40lbs.
  • DebSozo
    DebSozo Posts: 2,578 Member
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    Age and genetics can impact rmr
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.healthydietadvisor.com/resting-metabolic-rate/amp/
  • GottaBurnEmAll
    GottaBurnEmAll Posts: 7,722 Member
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    DebSozo wrote: »
    Age and genetics can impact rmr
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.healthydietadvisor.com/resting-metabolic-rate/amp/

    That article you keep posting, apropos of nothing, also contains this little gem:
    Eating several smaller meals will increase your RMR because your metabolism is used to digest your food every time you eat. Besides making you feel full longer, eating smaller meals will help you to drop weight easier. You won’t be so apt to binge on something because you’re hungry if you know you are going to eat something in another hour.

    So now that you've finished moving the goalposts, please tell me how age and genetics and your RMR have anything to do with your continued assertions that you damaged your metabolism by eating 1200 calories to lose 10 pounds?
  • leanjogreen18
    leanjogreen18 Posts: 2,492 Member
    edited November 2016
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    My new quote I read today is from Sheryl Sandburg about how she feels about feedback... she chooses applicants who take feedback well because those are the ones that will learn things and grow.
  • DebSozo
    DebSozo Posts: 2,578 Member
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    GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »
    DebSozo wrote: »
    Age and genetics can impact rmr
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.healthydietadvisor.com/resting-metabolic-rate/amp/

    That article you keep posting, apropos of nothing, also contains this little gem:
    Eating several smaller meals will increase your RMR because your metabolism is used to digest your food every time you eat. Besides making you feel full longer, eating smaller meals will help you to drop weight easier. You won’t be so apt to binge on something because you’re hungry if you know you are going to eat something in another hour.

    So now that you've finished moving the goalposts, please tell me how age and genetics and your RMR have anything to do with your continued assertions that you damaged your metabolism by eating 1200 calories to lose 10 pounds?

    What? I lost 10 pounds in 5 months. I damaged my metabolism by being on 1200 calories for 2 years. Big mistake. I found MFP AFTER being on a plateau for a couple of years. Since then I've raised my maintenance calories thankfully. I'm so happy about that.
  • GottaBurnEmAll
    GottaBurnEmAll Posts: 7,722 Member
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    DebSozo wrote: »
    GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »
    DebSozo wrote: »
    Age and genetics can impact rmr
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.healthydietadvisor.com/resting-metabolic-rate/amp/

    That article you keep posting, apropos of nothing, also contains this little gem:
    Eating several smaller meals will increase your RMR because your metabolism is used to digest your food every time you eat. Besides making you feel full longer, eating smaller meals will help you to drop weight easier. You won’t be so apt to binge on something because you’re hungry if you know you are going to eat something in another hour.

    So now that you've finished moving the goalposts, please tell me how age and genetics and your RMR have anything to do with your continued assertions that you damaged your metabolism by eating 1200 calories to lose 10 pounds?

    What? I lost 10 pounds in 5 months. I damaged my metabolism by being on 1200 calories for 2 years. Big mistake. I found MFP AFTER being on a plateau for a couple of years. Since then I've raised my maintenance calories thankfully. I'm so happy about that.

    You weren't maintaining on 1200 calories.

    Reverse diets, which you say you did, don't work in the way you think they do.
  • GottaBurnEmAll
    GottaBurnEmAll Posts: 7,722 Member
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    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/lean-body-mass-maintenance-and-metabolic-rate-slowdown-qa.html/
    Studies have repeatedly shown that individuals who have been dieted down to a given weight will have a lower than predicted metabolic rate compared to someone who didn’t diet to that weight. That is, someone who ‘naturally’ weighs 200 pounds will have a higher total energy expenditure than someone who dieted down to 200 pounds.

    So what’s causing this reduction in total energy expenditure. A majority of the ‘metabolic slowdown’ that occurs is due simply to the loss of body mass. Because larger bodies burn more calories (both at rest and during activities) and smaller bodies burn less.

    But that’s not the only cause of metabolic slowdown here. There is also an adaptive component of metabolic rate slowdown that is mediated by changes in hormones: leptin, insulin, thyroid, catecholamines. As these change (decrease) on a diet, you find that tissues burn fewer calories per unit mass. I’d mention that not all studies find this, about half do and half don’t. That is, your assumption that a given body composition always burns the identical number of calories on a day to day basis isn’t entirely correct.

    Of course, an important question is how much of a change this amounts to. During active weight loss, the impact is relatively greater (because hormones tend to be more greatly affected); at weight maintenance (once a person has stabilized), the impact isn’t huge. In some studies of the post-obese (folks who have been dieted down and maintained at that weight) show a relatively modest 5% or so reduction in RMR. The effect exists but is not massive; it’s also highly variable, with people showing relatively more or less of an effect.

    There is also evidence that individuals move around less when they lose/are losing weight. As James Krieger recently wrote on his Weightology.net website, it looks like changes in activity (especially NEAT) are the far larger contribution to the reduction in overall energy expenditure on a day to day basis; the number of calories burned in that activity also appear to be reduced due to improved muscular efficiency.

    In that study, decreases in RMR were about 150 calories per day but reductions in activity expenditure were up in the 300 calorie plus range with the total effect being over 400 calories. This is likely why daily activity has such a profound impact on weight maintenance as I discussed in Exercise and Weight/Fat Loss Part 2: since the body is ‘automatically’ decreasing activity energy expenditure, you have to make up for it.
  • dbanks80
    dbanks80 Posts: 3,685 Member
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    I do a relative low carb cuz of my pre-diabetes. If I eat tons of low carb foods past my calorie intake I will gain. If I want a sandwich I eat a sandwich as long as I have the calories for it. Low carb vs CICO is not two different types of eating for weight loss.
  • DebSozo
    DebSozo Posts: 2,578 Member
    edited November 2016
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    GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »
    DebSozo wrote: »
    GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »
    DebSozo wrote: »
    Age and genetics can impact rmr
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.healthydietadvisor.com/resting-metabolic-rate/amp/

    That article you keep posting, apropos of nothing, also contains this little gem:
    Eating several smaller meals will increase your RMR because your metabolism is used to digest your food every time you eat. Besides making you feel full longer, eating smaller meals will help you to drop weight easier. You won’t be so apt to binge on something because you’re hungry if you know you are going to eat something in another hour.

    So now that you've finished moving the goalposts, please tell me how age and genetics and your RMR have anything to do with your continued assertions that you damaged your metabolism by eating 1200 calories to lose 10 pounds?

    What? I lost 10 pounds in 5 months. I damaged my metabolism by being on 1200 calories for 2 years. Big mistake. I found MFP AFTER being on a plateau for a couple of years. Since then I've raised my maintenance calories thankfully. I'm so happy about that.

    You weren't maintaining on 1200 caloriesno.

    Reverse diets, which you say you did, don't work in the way you think they do.

    Yes. I did. I plateaued. And I wasn't well. And my body slowed way down. I am still a very, very slow loser. I haven't had my thyroid checked, but I may go just to rule that possibility out.

    I wasn't willing to drop down more than 1200 so I unhappily stayed at that number thinking it was my plight.

    I later learned about TDEE and that my maintenance calories should be around 1800, so I gradually reversed dieted after researching. Now when I diet next I only plan to dip down to 1500 calories or so. I never plan to go that low (ETA 1200 ) ever again.

    Others have TDEEs that are different based on age, sex, height, genetics, health, activity levels or whatever. I'm sorry you don't believe me or agree with me. That isn't something I can ever prove to your satisfaction if it never has happened to you. It happened to me in my 50s. I have no reason to lie about this.

    I get no benefit from sharing other than knowing that there are others it has happened to out there. They report it plenty, but people accuse them of lying or not weighing food with kitchen scales or not logging properly. But I tend to believe that many are experienced dieters who have been doing this a while who plateau even on a diet.
  • DebSozo
    DebSozo Posts: 2,578 Member
    edited November 2016
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    CICO applies to everyone irregardless of type of diet. Calories in are how many calories you eat and calories out are how many calories you expend. How many calories an individual needs varies depending on factors such as their activity level, age, height, etc.
  • ryry_
    ryry_ Posts: 4,966 Member
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    NancyYale wrote: »
    Everyone is different, but for the last 16 months I've lost 116 lbs eating around 50% of my calories in carb heavy foods like veggies and whole grains, including breads, potatoes, beans and such. 30% or so lean proteins including chicken, egg whites and fish, and 20% fat. I have occasional sugary treats if I really want them, and eat out a few times a month. I have tried to do this thing aiming for the long term, and I wouldn't last a week on super low carb. My bloodwork this week was phenomenal.

    @NancyYale this is awesome
  • marm1962
    marm1962 Posts: 950 Member
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    I am trying the low carb keto eating plan, but I also plan to count my calories.......because to me that just makes sense.
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,398 MFP Moderator
    edited November 2016
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    gwenmf wrote: »
    I'm doing Low Carb, Medium Protein, High Fat - which is basically Keto Clarity if you want to read the book. I've been following this about a month and am down 12 lbs (weigh in is tomorrow). I no longer get hungry and rarely get food cravings. I've found ways to substitute things like bread, pasta, etc. My carb count is 20g per day. Protein recommendation is 2.2g per kg of weight. Fat needs to be higher than your protein. Fat is what keeps you from being hungry.

    It changes your body from sugar burning to fat burning once you get into ketosis, which only takes a few days. NUTRITIONAL Ketosis. You have to monitor your protein as well. Too much protein can lead to gains as it releases hormones that will kick you back into sugar burning rather than fat burning.

    Everyone has their own plan that works for them. The trick is finding that whether it's vegan, paleo, low carb, etc. Calories matter for all of them I think. More calories in than needed and you gain.

    I always find it fascinating that those who follow LCHF bring up this point quite often because it's almost meaningless; more dietary fat = greater fat oxidation (but that is dietary fat, not body fat necessarily), more carbs = greater carbohydrate oxidation. But in the end, it doesn't really matter since the body utilizes both effectively and the net energy balance is the only thing that matter for weight/fat maintenance. Just an observation. It's not wrong and not meant as a criticism or anything, just something that makes me giggle a little. Sorry for the tangent.


    OP, I lost 50 lbs trying several different methods; paleo, IF, flexible/IIFYM. What I have discovered is restriction, of any sort (timing or foods) does not work for me. But like others, I concentrate on increasing whole foods, particularly those higher in protein and fiber, and have worked through a lot of food combinations to figure out what works best. For me, lean protein + starches/ fiber is the ideal combo. When I am cutting, I limit dietary fat as it has no impact on satiety. When I maintain or bulk, I add in fats.

    So it's best to play around with things for a few months, documenting how you feel and making adjustments as necessary to ensure dietary compliance. Another big factor is are you the type that likes flexibility or strict rules. If you are the latter, a diet that has rules might be beneficial; if you are the former (like me) than you will do better with a flexible type diet. In the end, no diet will work without compliance.

    I would also suggest making goals outside of weight loss as it can be an additional motivator and help deter you from making aggressive diet mistakes just by focusing on weight. For me, I focus on body fat and strength. The latter is my primary goal. It just so happens that it helps me achieve a good body fat when combined with a diet that allows me to be in a deficit.
  • DebSozo
    DebSozo Posts: 2,578 Member
    edited November 2016
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    GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »
    DebSozo wrote: »
    GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »
    DebSozo wrote: »
    GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »
    DebSozo wrote: »
    Age and genetics can impact rmr
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.healthydietadvisor.com/resting-metabolic-rate/amp/

    That article you keep posting, apropos of nothing, also contains this little gem:
    Eating several smaller meals will increase your RMR because your metabolism is used to digest your food every time you eat. Besides making you feel full longer, eating smaller meals will help you to drop weight easier. You won’t be so apt to binge on something because you’re hungry if you know you are going to eat something in another hour.

    So now that you've finished moving the goalposts, please tell me how age and genetics and your RMR have anything to do with your continued assertions that you damaged your metabolism by eating 1200 calories to lose 10 pounds?

    What? I lost 10 pounds in 5 months. I damaged my metabolism by being on 1200 calories for 2 years. Big mistake. I found MFP AFTER being on a plateau for a couple of years. Since then I've raised my maintenance calories thankfully. I'm so happy about that.

    You weren't maintaining on 1200 caloriesno.

    Reverse diets, which you say you did, don't work in the way you think they do.

    Yes. I did. I plateaued. And I wasn't well. And my body slowed way down. I am still a very, very slow loser. I haven't had my thyroid checked, but I may go just to rule that possibility out.

    I wasn't willing to drop down more than 1200 so I unhappily stayed at that number thinking it was my plight.

    I later learned about TDEE and that my maintenance calories should be around 1800, so I gradually reversed dieted after researching. Now when I diet next I only plan to dip down to 1500 calories or so. I never plan to go that low (ETA 1200 ) ever again.

    Others have TDEEs that are different based on age, sex, height, genetics, health, activity levels or whatever. I'm sorry you don't believe me or agree with me. That isn't something I can ever prove to your satisfaction if it never has happened to you. It happened to me in my 50s. I have no reason to lie about this.

    I get no benefit from sharing other than knowing that there are others it has happened to out there. They report it plenty, but people accuse them of lying or not weighing food with kitchen scales or not logging properly. But I tend to believe that many are experienced dieters who have been doing this a while who plateau even on a diet.

    Three words. Concentration camp survivors.

    Three more words: Minnesota Starvation Experiment.

    These people continued to lose weight in the face of continuing caloric restriction.

    The body does not work in the way you believe it works, Deb. You were eating more than you thought. There were either times you were binging or sneaking bites of food here or there, or you were eating extra food.

    I'm sorry, you were not maintaining on 1200 calories.

    That is a caloric intake for a very short much older sedentary woman.

    No, I don't believe you. Not in the least. I've seen you flit from fad to fad on these boards, latching onto whatever you read to easily. Now you're into low carb. The last big thing you were into was recomp. What's going to be next?

    First of all I was never on a starvation diet. Nor have I ever said that. What I said is that I plateaued at 1200 and was not willing to go lower because I had heard that one needs to get doctor supervision to go lower. Plus health is my number one concern. I had read that 1200 is suitable to get enough healthy nutrients.

    I love recomp! I learned about that on rhe recomp thread. Then I researched how to do it. That is what I do when I maintain. That is something that I don't plan to give up. I'm thankful for that.

    Keto worked for me and I plan to do it for future brief cuts. I researched this also so I wouldn't lose electrolytes and could minimize the side effects of getting keto adapted. I could only stay on it a month (mid-July to mid-August. It definitely helped satiate me and benefited me.) But I had difficulty getting into ketosis.

    I am still doing IF and love it! I am still eating LCHF lunch and a 40/30/30 dinner. So it wasn't so much "flitting"--- in six months time I tried a variety of options. Low carb has a some flexibility, and I'm currently trying to discover the carb level I tolerate the best.

    :)
  • DebSozo
    DebSozo Posts: 2,578 Member
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    Oh and I'm not a binger. I hate feeling full so nice try. Not true

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