Carbs
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I won't go quoting any one comment because what I stated was my opinion but there is much more to weight loss than "Simple CICO" I still do not agree and if you google things you'll see many common sense examples. Take Michael Phelps for example. He eats over 12,000 calories a day Calories In and He doesn't burn 12,000 Calories out but yet he still is in shape.
So Simple...and yes I repeat Simple which is what I said in my post isn't all there is to it. There are about a million other different variables to take into account. I guess I should have expected this to turn into a right vs wrong debate but that's fine. I know what's worked for me and I've enjoyed my loss. I hope the OP uses google to help educate themselves on all the different ways of weight loss and doesn't subscribe to just one ideal from any one single source.
I have many friends who have lost weight many different ways and I never push my opinion on anyone. High carbs work for some, low carbs work for some, high fat vs low fat works too, but I don't believe anything to do with weight loss is simple. Also to say you don't need to avoid carbs as a blanket statement unless you have something medically wrong with you is silly. It all depends on the individual. Yet I don't believe I quoted a single individual who said that because it's their opinion and they are entitled to it.2 -
LovelessFool wrote: »I won't go quoting any one comment because what I stated was my opinion but there is much more to weight loss than "Simple CICO" I still do not agree and if you google things you'll see many common sense examples. Take Michael Phelps for example. He eats over 12,000 calories a day Calories In and He doesn't burn 12,000 Calories out but yet he still is in shape.
So Simple...and yes I repeat Simple which is what I said in my post isn't all there is to it. There are about a million other different variables to take into account. I guess I should have expected this to turn into a right vs wrong debate but that's fine. I know what's worked for me and I've enjoyed my loss. I hope the OP uses google to help educate themselves on all the different ways of weight loss and doesn't subscribe to just one ideal from any one single source.
I have many friends who have lost weight many different ways and I never push my opinion on anyone. High carbs work for some, low carbs work for some, high fat vs low fat works too, but I don't believe anything to do with weight loss is simple. Also to say you don't need to avoid carbs as a blanket statement unless you have something medically wrong with you is silly. It all depends on the individual. Yet I don't believe I quoted a single individual who said that because it's their opinion and they are entitled to it.
I definitely agree with the gyst of this. Again, I believe everyone giving advice here is doing it based on what has worked for them, which makes sense. I listened to the "Cut the Fat" poscast series (great, btw), and one thing they say a lot is "there is only one true weight loss formula, and it is different for everyone". I believe this to be true, to a point.
My recommendation for the OP, and for everyone, is take all info and ideas in that you can. Start using the stuff that you see yourself actually committing to. If that works - great! If not, try something else until you find your plan. It doesn't necessarily have to be low carb. It may be as simple as CICO, like it was for me.
Again, good luck to all
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Are you able to eat only the "veggie" carbs, i've stepped away from "rice", potatoes and pasta but do enjoy and frequently eat the non-processed carbs.
Some people replace potatoes with veggies they enjoy , have you tried riced cauliflower?
The thing is, it always comes down to choices and you are thinking about what you need to do so, in that regard, you're already ahead of the game.
Good Luck0 -
I definitely agree with the gyst of this. Again, I believe everyone giving advice here is doing it based on what has worked for them, which makes sense. I listened to the "Cut the Fat" poscast series (great, btw), and one thing they say a lot is "there is only one true weight loss formula, and it is different for everyone". I believe this to be true, to a point.
My recommendation for the OP, and for everyone, is take all info and ideas in that you can. Start using the stuff that you see yourself actually committing to. If that works - great! If not, try something else until you find your plan. It doesn't necessarily have to be low carb. It may be as simple as CICO, like it was for me.
Again, good luck to all.
Rick I completely agree with both of your posts. It's very individualized and that's all I really meant. I respect all opinions no matter what they are and I've taken many sources of information and adjust it for what's worked for me. The journey to be healthy has many roads and I don't believe only one works and many times you have lane changes, off ramps, on ramps, traffic and construction all on the way to building a better you.
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LovelessFool wrote: »I won't go quoting any one comment because what I stated was my opinion but there is much more to weight loss than "Simple CICO" I still do not agree and if you google things you'll see many common sense examples. Take Michael Phelps for example. He eats over 12,000 calories a day Calories In and He doesn't burn 12,000 Calories out but yet he still is in shape.
So Simple...and yes I repeat Simple which is what I said in my post isn't all there is to it. There are about a million other different variables to take into account. I guess I should have expected this to turn into a right vs wrong debate but that's fine. I know what's worked for me and I've enjoyed my loss. I hope the OP uses google to help educate themselves on all the different ways of weight loss and doesn't subscribe to just one ideal from any one single source.
I have many friends who have lost weight many different ways and I never push my opinion on anyone. High carbs work for some, low carbs work for some, high fat vs low fat works too, but I don't believe anything to do with weight loss is simple. Also to say you don't need to avoid carbs as a blanket statement unless you have something medically wrong with you is silly. It all depends on the individual. Yet I don't believe I quoted a single individual who said that because it's their opinion and they are entitled to it.
First, Michael Pheleps doesn't eat 12,000 calories, its more like 8,000 and you have no clue what he actually burns. Second, I agree there are many factors, that goes without saying. In fact, I covered that in my previous post. But I do not think you understand what CICO is. In fact, CICO isn't a diet, it's an energy balance and all things come down to energy balance. How you address energy balance is personal preference.1 -
LovelessFool wrote: »I won't go quoting any one comment because what I stated was my opinion but there is much more to weight loss than "Simple CICO" I still do not agree and if you google things you'll see many common sense examples. Take Michael Phelps for example. He eats over 12,000 calories a day Calories In and He doesn't burn 12,000 Calories out but yet he still is in shape.
So Simple...and yes I repeat Simple which is what I said in my post isn't all there is to it. There are about a million other different variables to take into account. I guess I should have expected this to turn into a right vs wrong debate but that's fine. I know what's worked for me and I've enjoyed my loss. I hope the OP uses google to help educate themselves on all the different ways of weight loss and doesn't subscribe to just one ideal from any one single source.
I have many friends who have lost weight many different ways and I never push my opinion on anyone. High carbs work for some, low carbs work for some, high fat vs low fat works too, but I don't believe anything to do with weight loss is simple. Also to say you don't need to avoid carbs as a blanket statement unless you have something medically wrong with you is silly. It all depends on the individual. Yet I don't believe I quoted a single individual who said that because it's their opinion and they are entitled to it.
First, Michael Pheleps doesn't eat 12,000 calories, its more like 8,000 and you have no clue what he actually burns. Second, I agree there are many factors, that goes without saying. In fact, I covered that in my previous post. But I do not think you understand what CICO is. In fact, CICO isn't a diet, it's an energy balance and all things come down to energy balance. How you address energy balance is personal preference.
And I think you assume completely way too much about what I know or don't know. Much like your comment "there really isn't a need to avoid that unless you have a medical issue". Also currently Michael Phelps doesn't eat 12,000 calories but look at Mens Health, The Wall Street Journal and the New York post during his 2008 Olympics because that's exactly what he ate back then, but I won't post a reply further in this thread because I will just agree that we disagree and leave it at that. Google is your friend, but nice attacking me with how I "Have no clue" and telling me how you think I "don't understand". Well done.3 -
CICO is a scientific fact. There is also documented proof that some people can't handle carbs the proper way. This deficiency does make CICO "not work" for some people....making carb control necessary. I stuck with MFP for 6 months, staying within CICO, and did not have a lot of success because of my food choices. Now, I watch my carb intake and am having a much better result.0
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CICO is a scientific fact. There is also documented proof that some people can't handle carbs the proper way. This deficiency does make CICO "not work" for some people....making carb control necessary. I stuck with MFP for 6 months, staying within CICO, and did not have a lot of success because of my food choices. Now, I watch my carb intake and am having a much better result.
if you lower your carbs causing a deficit,you are still eating in a deficit so that is still CICO.I have a metabolic disorder and I still lost weight doing CICO,its been much slower but it still worked,I cant do too low of carbs because I cant have high fat due to my health issue.for CICO it doesnt matter how you eat or what way you eat,what matters is being in a deficit. so if low carbs work for you thats great. but if say your TDEE is 1800 and you eat low carb but still go over your TDEE calories you will gain weight.The only thing with low carbs is you lose a lot of water weight and glycogen in the beginning0 -
LovelessFool wrote: »I've lost over 100lbs in just shy of 4 months controlling my carb intake and I didn't do it because I had medical issues. I however was and I am still very heavy but i had no diabetes or high blood pressure and I did tons of research regarding many different lifestyle changes. There are strong opinions on both sides of the low carb / high carb debate but the most silly thing I hear is there is no need to avoid carbs if you don't have a medical problem. Simple CICO has been proven not to work on many occasions. You have to truly balance your macro's within the caloric restriction so that means watching lots of things...not just calories.
In the end focus on changing your diet for what you feel is sustainable for you. Don't be afraid to try different things. Stick to your caloric restriction goal and adjust your macro's until you find what fits best and then just focus on sticking with it.
Good luck with everything!
you lost weight because you replaced calorie dense carbs with less calorie dense foods, which is CICO, so CICO does work, and in fact, is working for you. If CICO did not work then it would be possible to eat 5000 calories a day, be in a surplus, and not gain weight.
Funny, that no one ever claims that "I ate and ate and ate and never gained a pound, so CICO does not work" it is only when people fail at weight loss that they try to blame CICO.
Please link us to this "proof" that CICO does not work ...1 -
LovelessFool wrote: »I'm not here thumping go low carb. I focused in my post more on macro balance and what works for them. Simply restricting calories without balancing your macro's IMHO doesn't work. Use google and look at any longer term study. Again I'm not saying eat less carbs (It's what I did and worked for me and I have no medical issues). To me It's about balance. Depending on where you get your energy from it's all relative so no need to go on some attack spree about low carb vs high carb. My post wasn't about that.
The post was about maintaining balance of your macro's within your restriction. I don't think 90% carbs and 0% fat and 10% protein works. I don't think 10% carbs and 80% fat and 10% protein works either but that's my opinion. There are extremes at either end of the debate but honestly I believe it's about balance. How we eat and what we eat does matter and how we exercise does to. Many times eating out of balance can still have you losing weight but it can damage your metabolism or cause other issues.
At the end of the day no one has a magic pill that says "poof" you are healthy. I was just saying restriction isn't the only factor. It's not that simple IMHO.
the nice thing about science is that it works, whether or not you believe in it.
macro balances do not change the laws of math and physics.
Go eat 10,000 calories a day and see if you gain weight, if you do that is CICO, and it is working.2 -
LovelessFool wrote: »LovelessFool wrote: »I won't go quoting any one comment because what I stated was my opinion but there is much more to weight loss than "Simple CICO" I still do not agree and if you google things you'll see many common sense examples. Take Michael Phelps for example. He eats over 12,000 calories a day Calories In and He doesn't burn 12,000 Calories out but yet he still is in shape.
So Simple...and yes I repeat Simple which is what I said in my post isn't all there is to it. There are about a million other different variables to take into account. I guess I should have expected this to turn into a right vs wrong debate but that's fine. I know what's worked for me and I've enjoyed my loss. I hope the OP uses google to help educate themselves on all the different ways of weight loss and doesn't subscribe to just one ideal from any one single source.
I have many friends who have lost weight many different ways and I never push my opinion on anyone. High carbs work for some, low carbs work for some, high fat vs low fat works too, but I don't believe anything to do with weight loss is simple. Also to say you don't need to avoid carbs as a blanket statement unless you have something medically wrong with you is silly. It all depends on the individual. Yet I don't believe I quoted a single individual who said that because it's their opinion and they are entitled to it.
First, Michael Pheleps doesn't eat 12,000 calories, its more like 8,000 and you have no clue what he actually burns. Second, I agree there are many factors, that goes without saying. In fact, I covered that in my previous post. But I do not think you understand what CICO is. In fact, CICO isn't a diet, it's an energy balance and all things come down to energy balance. How you address energy balance is personal preference.
And I think you assume completely way too much about what I know or don't know. Much like your comment "there really isn't a need to avoid that unless you have a medical issue". Also currently Michael Phelps doesn't eat 12,000 calories but look at Mens Health, The Wall Street Journal and the New York post during his 2008 Olympics because that's exactly what he ate back then, but I won't post a reply further in this thread because I will just agree that we disagree and leave it at that. Google is your friend, but nice attacking me with how I "Have no clue" and telling me how you think I "don't understand". Well done.
Phelps is an elite athlete who trains daily and his burn rate is insanely high when training...
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I know CICO matters, even LC. The opinion that everyone can eat any type of calories for CICO and still loose was my point. For some reason, when I eat a high percentage of carbs I don't lose.0
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I know CICO matters, even LC. The opinion that everyone can eat any type of calories for CICO and still loose was my point. For some reason, when I eat a high percentage of carbs I don't lose.
that is because you over consume carbs and it puts you in a calorie surplus...
unless you have a food allergy or medical condition...2 -
I love how so many in the thread have ignored the OP's topic all together and just jumped on a CICO debate. Also some have loved to put words in my mouth as well.
I said "Simple CICO has been proven not to work on many occasions" I never SAID ALL. Here is just one of the websites on the first page if you use google talking about many experts (11 In Fact) who have put SIMPLE CICO on blast.
http://www.caloriegate.com/calories-in-calories-out/11-experts-demolish-the-calories-in-calories-out-cico-model-of-obesity
I won't bore you of the literally 100's of other links you can find by using google.
So to clarify I never said CICO doesn't work. I also never said CICO was a diet. Some very crafty individuals trying to read between the lines where there is nothing there.
None of this really matters because I think the OP is determined for her success and is going to do what is right for her. Also I've not failed at my weight loss so far and I still believe there is more to it than just Calories-In or Calories Out but that's my opinion. Notice I'm not here telling anyone of you....nor quoting any of you and telling you that your opinion is wrong.
MFP needs a way to seriously unsubscribe from threads because this has really gotten quite silly.
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LovelessFool wrote: »I love how so many in the thread has ignored the OP's topic all together and just jumped on a CICO debate. Also some have loved to put words in my mouth as well.
I said "Simple CICO has been proven not to work on many occasions" I never SAID ALL. Here is just one of the websites on the first page if you use google talking about many experts who have put SIMPLE CICO on blast.
http://www.caloriegate.com/calories-in-calories-out/11-experts-demolish-the-calories-in-calories-out-cico-model-of-obesity
I won't bore you of the literally 100's of other links you can find by using google.
So to clarify I never said CICO doesn't work. I also never said CICO was a diet. Some very crafty individuals trying to read between the lines where there is nothing there.
None of this really matters because I think the OP is determined for her success and is going to do what is right for her. Also I've not failed at my weight loss so far and I still believe there is more to it than just Calories-In or Calories Out but that's my opinion. Notice I'm not here telling anyone of you....nor quoting any of you and telling you that your opinion is wrong.
MFP needs a way to seriously unsubscribe from threads because this has really gotten quite silly.
I think what you want to say is a calorie is not a calorie?
I am not going there today..
But my take is CICO worked in every occasion that you did lose weight and when it did fail or did work on those "occasions" you were in a calorie surplus at some point, or lets say weight loss may have slowed down due to many reasons..0 -
My motto is how you lose is how you'll have to maintain it. so, if you hate carbs.. do the no/low carb thing. But if you're going to end up eating them again.. you'll regain again.
I don't cut them out for this reason. I love my rice, potatoes, and bread. I just use common sense and limit these. I use flat out wraps for low fat tuna melts and pizzas.. and for roll up sandwiches. I do the 100 calorie high fiber flax wrap..some are only 90 calories. I also use Thomas 110 bagels for breakfast spread 35 calorie laughing cow light cheese ..love those. Right now I'll order a baked potato out but don't keep them in the house. I like rice too and eating a half cup is fine with me.
I always try to pair my carbs with protein as well so it doesn't spike my insulin. I can make these choices forever and be fine.2 -
I just eat meat, veggies & a few berries. LCHF lifestyle. Carbs like breads, pasta, potatoes, & rice made me lethargic & go right to sleep after I ate them & I don't like feeling that way so I gave them up & have more energy & am more alert than ever.1
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LovelessFool wrote: »I love how so many in the thread have ignored the OP's topic all together and just jumped on a CICO debate. Also some have loved to put words in my mouth as well.
I said "Simple CICO has been proven not to work on many occasions" I never SAID ALL. Here is just one of the websites on the first page if you use google talking about many experts (11 In Fact) who have put SIMPLE CICO on blast.
http://www.caloriegate.com/calories-in-calories-out/11-experts-demolish-the-calories-in-calories-out-cico-model-of-obesity
I won't bore you of the literally 100's of other links you can find by using google.
So to clarify I never said CICO doesn't work. I also never said CICO was a diet. Some very crafty individuals trying to read between the lines where there is nothing there.
None of this really matters because I think the OP is determined for her success and is going to do what is right for her. Also I've not failed at my weight loss so far and I still believe there is more to it than just Calories-In or Calories Out but that's my opinion. Notice I'm not here telling anyone of you....nor quoting any of you and telling you that your opinion is wrong.
MFP needs a way to seriously unsubscribe from threads because this has really gotten quite silly.
ludwig, taubes, et al, oh my? Hate to break it to you but they have been repeatedly shown to be not accurate if not downright dishonest...
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I know CICO matters, even LC. The opinion that everyone can eat any type of calories for CICO and still loose was my point. For some reason, when I eat a high percentage of carbs I don't lose.
There are a ton of factors that affect a person and their ability to actually achieve an actual deficit. Playing with macro's can be a very important part of them. Once I go below 200g of carbs a day, my energy starts to suffer, my workouts become terrible and things seem to fall a part. This in turn, decreases my caloric expenditure, which makes achieving an actual deficit extremely hard.
With that said, i don't think we are saying anyone can eat anything, because that ignores compliance, sustainability and the psychological factors, but in metabolic ward studies, they measure EE and take reductions from that and regardless of diet composition, weight loss only occurs when a reduction from EE occurs.
If anyone is interested, below is an actual study on energy balance and not a blog of opinions.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24261006
For the OP, it's quite possible that she cannot sustain a diet that is high in carbs and refocusing her efforts to replace carbs with fats and proteins might be highly be beneficial. But we need more clarification of what her goals are and what the issue with carbs is.1
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