When should I switch programs?

sammyliftsandeats

Hi all,

I am currently running Stronglifts 5x5 and have been doing so since May.

My current maxes are:
150lbs 3x3 for squats
160lbs 1x5 for deadlifts
75lbs 5x5 for row
70lbs 5x3 for bench
60lbs 3x5 for overhead press

I am 5'3", 142lbs, and 28 years old.

I don't want to switch right now as I think I can do better but typically, when is it appropriate to make the switch? Would I have to do something like deadlift 1.5x my bodyweight or something?

I currently eat maintenance calories at the moment but looking to go back to a deficit in January.

Thank you!

LolBroScience

Run linear progression as long as possible.

SideSteel

It depends.

I think most people stick with a linear progression too long.

If you get to the point where you repeatedly deload (because you are not making progress) and the deload does not cause you to make additional strength gains I would swap programs.

My experience so far with moving people from a linear program is that they enjoy the hell out of training because they're not banging their head against a wall repeatedly, and they start progressing again.

I'll note though that most people also do not deload properly.

Cliffs: Is your strength still going up? Stick with it.

sammyliftsandeats

SideSteel wrote: »

It depends.

I think most people stick with a linear progression too long.

If you get to the point where you repeatedly deload (because you are not making progress) and the deload does not cause you to make additional strength gains I would swap programs.

My experience so far with moving people from a linear program is that they enjoy the hell out of training because they're not banging their head against a wall repeatedly, and they start progressing again.

I'll note though that most people also do not deload properly.

Cliffs: Is your strength still going up? Stick with it.

My strength is going up for some lifts. Deadlifts and squats, yes. Bench press and OHP, not really.

I have deloaded for squats and deadlifts, but then I was able to surpass my old sticking point so I took that as a good sign to continue.

I have deloaded my bench press twice and struggle to get past the same points. Same with OHP.

SideSteel

samanthaluangphixay wrote: »

SideSteel wrote: »

It depends.

I think most people stick with a linear progression too long.

If you get to the point where you repeatedly deload (because you are not making progress) and the deload does not cause you to make additional strength gains I would swap programs.

My experience so far with moving people from a linear program is that they enjoy the hell out of training because they're not banging their head against a wall repeatedly, and they start progressing again.

I'll note though that most people also do not deload properly.

Cliffs: Is your strength still going up? Stick with it.

My strength is going up for some lifts. Deadlifts and squats, yes. Bench press and OHP, not really.

I have deloaded for squats and deadlifts, but then I was able to surpass my old sticking point so I took that as a good sign to continue.

I have deloaded my bench press twice and struggle to get past the same points. Same with OHP.

Fairly normal. I would consider making some modifications to those lifts while leaving the normal progression on squats and deads. If they are still going up then the program is working well for you.

One thing you can attempt would be to get fractional plates which would allow you to load the bar in much smaller increments.

sammyliftsandeats

Thanks for your tips, @SideSteel! I will look for fractional plates to help with my Bench and OHP.

canadianlbs

i started with stronglifts. the next change i made was just dropping to 3x5 sets instead of 5x5. same lift groupings, same schedules, same lifts.

the next time i changed was earlier this year, to wendler 531. what 'made' me do it was this: i had bench press that day at 85 pounds. i did the first set of five, and they were 'fine'. it was HARD, but i had good form, strong muscles, the last rep as strong as the first. all that happened was i said 'i am not *kitten* doing another two sets'. that's when my trainer said it was switch time. he wendlered me for bench press and by the next time i went back i had wendlered my other lifts too.

i was just done with the sets-across stuff. i was angry all the time. lifting wasn't fun anymore. it felt like i never caught a break. i was still 'getting' everything that he/the programming told me to do, and we were doing sub-5 increases for the tough ones. but it never felt easy, never felt like i was progressing at all because everything was the same scale of fight. and every single time i approached every single set, i genuinely didn't know if i was going to do it. then i'd do it, and all i'd get for it was 'good. x more next time.' i had roid rage without having taken the roids.

so personally, i think it's time to switch when the progressions build into whatever you're doing start to feel like you're being punished instead of just making progress.

Sued0nim

canadianlbs wrote: »

i started with stronglifts. the next change i made was just dropping to 3x5 sets instead of 5x5. same lift groupings, same schedules, same lifts.

the next time i changed was earlier this year, to wendler 531. what 'made' me do it was this: i had bench press that day at 85 pounds. i did the first set of five, and they were 'fine'. it was HARD, but i had good form, strong muscles, the last rep as strong as the first. all that happened was i said 'i am not *kitten* doing another two sets'. that's when my trainer said it was switch time. he wendlered me for bench press and by the next time i went back i had wendlered my other lifts too.

i was just done with the sets-across stuff. i was angry all the time. lifting wasn't fun anymore. it felt like i never caught a break. i was still 'getting' everything that he/the programming told me to do, and we were doing sub-5 increases for the tough ones. but it never felt easy, never felt like i was progressing at all because everything was the same scale of fight. and every single time i approached every single set, i genuinely didn't know if i was going to do it. then i'd do it, and all i'd get for it was 'good. x more next time.' i had roid rage without having taken the roids.

so personally, i think it's time to switch when the progressions build into whatever you're doing start to feel like you're being punished instead of just making progress.

Hmmm

I'm having mounting frustration in the gym, although I've never followed a fixed programme but I'm getting excessively grumpy with my trainer and I think it's cos of that feeling exactly ..my fitness has gone backwards due to life changes and inconsistency e.g. I've dropped from 3 to 1 or 2 sessions weekly. I'm not feeling "I can do this"

I think I need to think this through

canadianlbs

SideSteel wrote: »

My experience so far with moving people from a linear program is that they enjoy the hell out of training because they're not banging their head against a wall repeatedly, and they start progressing again.

this exactly. all that stuff about 'if you don't enjoy it you won't do it' was never so true. i love lifting as a thing, but i found i still need specific programme shifts at specific times to keep that feeling alive.

grapaj

Perfect timing for me to see this, I commiserate.
Xo

sammyliftsandeats

I have decided to stick with the program for now and to get fractional weights.

May not get them until Christmas as I have a hard time finding them in store in Vancouver and it's just not in the budget right now.

However, my deadlifts and squats are still increasing so I should be OK.

Maybe have to deload the other lifts and maybe work on a little more volume to get past the sticking point but I'm confident I will get there.

Maybe when I start stalling on the bigger lifts, I will look into another program.

canadianlbs

samanthaluangphixay wrote: »

I have decided to stick with the program for now and to get fractional weights.

May not get them until Christmas as I have a hard time finding them in store in Vancouver and it's just not in the budget right now.

you can add reps or do an extra lighter set at the end too, if you're looking for other ways to continue incrementing without taking the whole 5lb jump.

shor0814

canadianlbs wrote: »

i started with stronglifts. the next change i made was just dropping to 3x5 sets instead of 5x5. same lift groupings, same schedules, same lifts.

the next time i changed was earlier this year, to wendler 531. what 'made' me do it was this: i had bench press that day at 85 pounds. i did the first set of five, and they were 'fine'. it was HARD, but i had good form, strong muscles, the last rep as strong as the first. all that happened was i said 'i am not *kitten* doing another two sets'. that's when my trainer said it was switch time. he wendlered me for bench press and by the next time i went back i had wendlered my other lifts too.

i was just done with the sets-across stuff. i was angry all the time. lifting wasn't fun anymore. it felt like i never caught a break. i was still 'getting' everything that he/the programming told me to do, and we were doing sub-5 increases for the tough ones. but it never felt easy, never felt like i was progressing at all because everything was the same scale of fight. and every single time i approached every single set, i genuinely didn't know if i was going to do it. then i'd do it, and all i'd get for it was 'good. x more next time.' i had roid rage without having taken the roids.

so personally, i think it's time to switch when the progressions build into whatever you're doing start to feel like you're being punished instead of just making progress.

I wish I could say it gets easier, but if you are progressing correctly it never really gets easy. 5x5, 3x5, 5/3/1 are not supposed to be easy. Sure, some days on 5/3/1 feel better than others but the last set and last rep aren't supposed to get easy.

If you switch to a non-linear program you might feel more energized and accomplished so for that reason the change is good.

For the OP, you can get 2.5 lb ankle weights or large washers or a small set of chains to act as fractionals, just be creative.

canadianlbs

shor0814 wrote: »

I wish I could say it gets easier, but if you are progressing correctly it never really gets easy.

makes sense to me. it's the problem of knowing when 'it's supposed to be challenging' has become 'but not this challenging all the time' for newer lifters who are approaching the end of that newbie-growth phase.