stronglifts and running

curlsintherack

I was in a deficit but seem to be eating a lot these days just trying to maintain the current weight which is still slowly slipping down the scale about .5lbs per week now. I'm going to have to become more dedicated to tracking calories and macros.

sijomial

NorthCascades wrote: »

cqbkaju wrote: »

NorthCascades wrote: »

As a cyclist in a hilly place, I don't do squats or leg presses or anything like that. It would be redundant.

One of my top guys frequently rides in the MS 150.
For what it is worth, he seems to disagree with you.
Squats are mostly about strength in the legs, abs and back,
As I understand him, biking is mostly about endurance in the legs.
There is some carryover of strength and endurance but it is not a direct correlation.

You have to explain why I have to drive 150 miles, not to mention ride a bike that far, so I do not know one way or another.

Leg variance of the squat aside, I hope you are at least deadlifting or something to keep your back strong.
A strong and supple lower back is never "redundant".

The number of guys my age (and younger) who claim to have "back problems" and never took time to strengthen their backs is just...something.

I appreciate the thoughts. And for sure I recognize that I'm not getting 100 % of the benefits that squats and leg lifts and everything would bestow upon me, by riding a bike. On the other hand, my personal experience agrees with most peoples', you can't do both well. Cycling is more important to me, so if something has to give it's an easy choice.

cqbkaju wrote: »

cqbkaju wrote: »

As I understand him, biking is mostly about endurance in the legs.
There is some carryover of strength and endurance but it is not a direct correlation.

I just asked my guy who rides in the MS150 to make sure I was not mis-quoting him somehow:

"He is mistaken. I'm not saying riding hilly terrain isn't good for you, but there is no commutative property between squats and riding hilly terrain."

I don't think they're cumulative, I think they're competing (for the same resource: training stress).

@NorthCascades @cqbkaju
I'm somewhere in the middle ground on this - I'm a cyclist who does his leg strength work in the gym in the early part of the week so they are more rested for the following weekend's long / hilly rides. At the end of the week I'm often only doing upper body and core in the gym.
Definitely feel the performance benefit of strength training legs for cycling - but agree with that there is limited training and recovery time and you have to prioritise/compromise.
Often my Monday strength training is compromised by a Sunday long or hard ride. In summer cycling is #1 priority and in winter cardio and strength are about equal.

OP - try and be smart with your programming, that includes volume and intensity not just scheduling. Not convinced SL has that flexibility to cope with your conflicting goals.

wwkwag

cqbkaju wrote: »

Joanna2012B wrote: »

I am looking to start SL and I run, but I certainly won't be handling the same weight as you. However, it seems to me that you are doing a bit too much!

I frequently recommend SL5x5 for women. "Thinner Leaner Stronger" is also good.
My suggestion is to start light and focus on good form and safety instead of rushing to move heavy (for you) weights.

Lifting is a marathon, not a sprint.

@Joanna2012B - I just started SL5x5 and got great info from cqbkaju - he also recommended Thinner Leaner Stronger to me so I'm doing SL5x5 while I'm currently reading Thinner Leaner Stronger. Love it!! I actually look forward to working out on those three days. (This is my first time with a heavy lifting program and I'm 45 years old - so far so good). Good luck!

trigden1991

I would highly recommend the book " The Hybrid Athlete" by Alex Viada.

GiddyupTim

It is interesting that you say the squats take it out of your legs and impact your runs the next day. I have always found that deadlifts kill my next run more than squats do.

BrianSharpe

trigden1991 wrote: »

I would highly recommend the book " The Hybrid Athlete" by Alex Viada.

I'll give it a look, thanks!

OP I was finding the same thing, squatting 3 x weekly was ok when my runs were relatively short (8 to 10 km) but a the long runs got longer in the latter stages of my training plan my legs were dead and I rolled i back to 1 x weekly. My coach has recommended going lighter weights / higher reps & goblet/sumo squats as I have tight hips.

rybo

trigden1991 wrote: »

I would highly recommend the book " The Hybrid Athlete" by Alex Viada.

Excellent book. Recommend it too

NorthCascades

@ckbkaju, @sijomial, @cwolfman13

I ran across this yesterday:

4. Choose movements to load key areas of the body.

The results of these studies support that bone density is site-specific. This means that all of the bicep curls and chest presses in the world will not help you increase bone density in your hips and pelvis as much as doing lower body movements. Lumbar spine stress is achieved by loading weight on the back, such as doing deadlifts or squats with weight, and by performing sit-up type movements and back extensions. Stress on the femur occurs when legs are put under heavy load or impact forces. So if you want strong bones in your hips, legs and spine, make sure you are including movements that target those areas. Or conversely, if you have a particular area you are concerned about, make sure and give that area some more love with some additional site-specific exercises.

...

In addition to suspension training movements, consider adding movements where the spine is placed under load, such as squats with a bag, bar or employ the use of a standing machine. Loading up a leg press might be beneficial for the hips, but will not put the necessary compression forces on the spine which are lacking the most in cycling and are the most important for cyclists to include.

http://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/article/why-cycling-is-bad-for-bone-density-and-how-you-can-improve-it

sijomial

NorthCascades wrote: »

@ckbkaju, @sijomial, @cwolfman13

I ran across this yesterday:

4. Choose movements to load key areas of the body.

The results of these studies support that bone density is site-specific. This means that all of the bicep curls and chest presses in the world will not help you increase bone density in your hips and pelvis as much as doing lower body movements. Lumbar spine stress is achieved by loading weight on the back, such as doing deadlifts or squats with weight, and by performing sit-up type movements and back extensions. Stress on the femur occurs when legs are put under heavy load or impact forces. So if you want strong bones in your hips, legs and spine, make sure you are including movements that target those areas. Or conversely, if you have a particular area you are concerned about, make sure and give that area some more love with some additional site-specific exercises.

...

In addition to suspension training movements, consider adding movements where the spine is placed under load, such as squats with a bag, bar or employ the use of a standing machine. Loading up a leg press might be beneficial for the hips, but will not put the necessary compression forces on the spine which are lacking the most in cycling and are the most important for cyclists to include.

http://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/article/why-cycling-is-bad-for-bone-density-and-how-you-can-improve-it

@NorthCascades

Thanks for that. Interesting.
Unfortunately I have to avoid very large vertical loads as I have three badly damaged lumbar discs (repeated prolapses have massively reduced the space between the vertebrae). Compression = nerve impingement and loss of function as well as pain. Been under "final warning" of fusion surgery for over 10 years but managed to stave that off.
So as an example I will do alternate hand dumbbell shoulder presses to halve the load on my spine but still give a good workout.
I do a high volume of core strengthening exercises to compensate for my spinal issues.

ArvinSloane

I am a recreational runner doing about the same mileage schedule as you, and I also found my paces suffering as my weights increased on a three-day full body routine. I've switched to PHUL, which is four days on an upper/lower split (so two days of lower body work). This means I can still run three days per week and have one full rest day if I want, depending on how I schedule it.

PHUL as written has heavy squats and heavy DL's on the same day, so I moved the heavy back squats to split those two days. I still squat twice a week, but on deadlift day I am doing higher reps/lower weight of front squats or goblet squats. Here's what I'm usually doing any given week:

Monday: Upper body
Tuesday: Lower body (heavy DL)
Wednesday: 5-6 mile run
Thursday: Upper body + 4-5 mile run
Friday: Lower body (heavy squats)
Saturday: rest or very short recovery run
Sunday: Long run of 8-10 miles

Hope this helps!