Junk Food - A Question of Snobbery?

myofibril

I have a great article I saved about this sort of thing---if you'd like, I can scan it and get the .pdf to you somehow.

That would be terrific, thanks. If you PM once you have the PDF then I will let you have my email address.

The discussion is interesting. It seems the question of junk food is one more of a) frequency b) portion size and c) lower nutritional value rather than simply having the label "McDonalds" or whatever on it.

Therefore, if a relatively high calorie meal from a fast food joint was consumed in the context of a diet which was otherwise well balanced and was kept to a reasonable size and done on occasion then it should be no more problematic than a fine dining choice.

UpEarly

I eat plenty of farm-to-table food that is beautiful, fresh, seasonal, local, organic, etc. It's wonderful, delicious, and it completely dwarfs the calories/fat/sodium of a meal from McDonald's or KFC.

I LOVE fine dining, but overconsumption is still overconsumption - whether it happens at a great local restaurant with carefully sourced food or the Burger King around the corner.

Witchdoctor58

QUOTE:

Types of fat make a difference. So does cooking temperature. So does quality of the base ingredients. All of the above menus are full of fat and white carbs. However, I'd rather have the torte vs. fast food shake, and the steak vs the Big Mac with high fructose corn syrup dressings and pink slime meat, as at least all of the ingredients are found in nature, rather than chemical stew.



ZOMG! White carbs and chemicals?

FYI: Natural ingredients are chemical stews as well

Also are you familiar with the appeal to nature fallacy?

I'm not foolish enough to believe natural = healthy; otherwise I'd be fine with all the arsenic in rice and apple juice. However, if my body does not know how to metabolize something, forget it. My little brother has lyphoma, which is a mutation in a stem cell triggered by something. As a long-time junk food eater, that trigger could easily have been the steady diet of sheer crap he ingested over the years.

I choose not to consider pop-tarts and Mc processed offerings to be edible. There are so many good things to eat; why would I deliberately undo all the work I've done, set off a sugar binge, and stress my immune system?

Monsanto once put out an ad listing all the chemicals in an orange. I'm not someone who will freak out because of the dihydrogen monoxide semantics trick. However, Monsanto's MSG is a drug. Period. It dilates the taste buds to make you think something tastes better, and it also can act as a neurotransmitter. Who needs that? I won't be a slave to corporate advertising. It's not snobbery; it's just science (and I am a preventive medicine physician).

MsEndomorph

Please consider the following restaurant meals:

1) Big Mac with fries followed by a Cadburys Caramel McFlurry
2) Har kau (steamed prawn dumplings) followed by nasi goreng (Indonesian fried rice) served with chicken skewers and satay sauce
3)Steak au poivre with brandy and cream reduction, frites (fries) and aparagus spears tossed in garlic butter followed by salted caramel chocolate torte
4)Poulet Breton (chicken) served with wild mushroom sauce, truffle mash and salade verte followed by crepe with fresh strawberries and Chantilly cream
5)Breaded calamari rings (squid) with tartare sauce and lemon wedges followed by seafood linguine

Which of the above would you consider junk food and harmful to your well being? All of them? Some? Just one?

I ask because I have eaten meals 2-5 in the last month or so. When I have told people I know in RL about them they have all been positive and I have even been positively commended for eating them. I haven't eaten a meal like 1 in some time but I have in the past. This has, on occasion, been met with abject horror along the lines of "why would you eat that rubbish..."

However, I am pretty sure that meals 2-5 are equal, or on occasion dwarf meal 1 in terms of portion size, calorie content, sodium, sugar and saturated fat levels. I say "pretty sure" because the only restaurant that actually listed the nutritional info was McDonalds.

Objectively should we be focusing more of our attention not on restaurants like McDonalds but other restaurants? Isn't it the case that in context it is less harmful than other options with larger portion sizes irrespective of the supposed quality of the ingredients? Is it ok to rag on junk food perhaps because there is a perception that it is what less affluent people eat and is therefore an easier target? Why do birds suddenly appear every time you are near?

Not just the poor, but places like McDonalds are synonymous with poor, OBESE people. Like Chinese buffets. For me (a foodie and snob) it probably has to do with personal experiences with McDonald's/junk food frequenters and their completely opposite view of health and life. As I said in the topic about the cost of healthy food, for families who are truly poor, McDonald's is a luxury or a bad financial decision if it's routine.

But that's putting the food quality aside, and for a foodie, you can't really separate that from disdain for a place. Or my general dislike for their marketing practices. Or the smell of their food. Or the taste.

I just don't like it!

Acg67

I'm not foolish enough to believe natural = healthy; otherwise I'd be fine with all the arsenic in rice and apple juice. However, if my body does not know how to metabolize something, forget it. My little brother has lyphoma, which is a mutation in a stem cell triggered by something. As a long-time junk food eater, that trigger could easily have been the steady diet of sheer crap he ingested over the years.

I'm sure there are plenty of other factors that are equally if not more likely culprits than junk food

I choose not to consider pop-tarts and Mc processed offerings to be edible. There are so many good things to eat; why would I deliberately undo all the work I've done, set off a sugar binge, and stress my immune system?

Monsanto once put out an ad listing all the chemicals in an orange. I'm not someone who will freak out because of the dihydrogen monoxide semantics trick. However, Monsanto's MSG is a drug. Period. It dilates the taste buds to make you think something tastes better, and it also can act as a neurotransmitter. Who needs that? I won't be a slave to corporate advertising. It's not snobbery; it's just science (and I am a preventive medicine physician).

So metabolically speaking how does MSG differ from naturally occurring glutamate? Also wasn't aware Monsanto made MSG, I have ajinomoto brand in my pantry

cappri

I've also never had a french fry or pizza that made me close my eyes and sigh with contentment, although I have had that experience at some nicer restaurants. If I'm going to eat a thousand calories and a hundred grams of fat, 1) fancy cheese is involved and 2) I should be giddy with food joy.

On the rare occasion I have a McDonald's french fry it makes me giddy with food joy and pizza on occasion has made me close my eyes and sigh in contentment.

ninerbuff

Types of fat make a difference. So does cooking temperature. So does quality of the base ingredients. All of the above menus are full of fat and white carbs. However, I'd rather have the torte vs. fast food shake, and the steak vs the Big Mac with high fructose corn syrup dressings and pink slime meat, as at least all of the ingredients are found in nature, rather than chemical stew.

I've never seen a steak absorbed as steak or a Big Mac absorbed as a Big Mac by the body. Our bodies "chemically" break both down to simplest form and absorb amino acids, glycogen, and lipids.................kinda like a chemical stew.

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myofibril

Not just the poor, but places like McDonalds are synonymous with poor, OBESE people. Like Chinese buffets. For me (a foodie and snob) it probably has to do with personal experiences with McDonald's/junk food frequenters and their completely opposite view of health and life. As I said in the topic about the cost of healthy food, for families who are truly poor, McDonald's is a luxury or a bad financial decision if it's routine.

But that's putting the food quality aside, and for a foodie, you can't really separate that from disdain for a place. Or my general dislike for their marketing practices. Or the smell of their food. Or the taste.

I just don't like it!

Loooool, well at least you are honest.

I guess though this type of thinking may influence the messages that get pushed to dieters. Rather than objectively seek to understand if in fact McDonalds, Burger King or whatever is truly that bad in the context of their diet all they hear is "it's garbage, don't eat that, the horror!" and so on.

Not really problematic if you don't like fast food. Much more problematic if you do like it and feel you must avoid it to be successful for long term health / weight loss.

dandelyon

I've also never had a french fry or pizza that made me close my eyes and sigh with contentment, although I have had that experience at some nicer restaurants. If I'm going to eat a thousand calories and a hundred grams of fat, 1) fancy cheese is involved and 2) I should be giddy with food joy.

On the rare occasion I have a McDonald's french fry it makes me giddy with food joy and pizza on occasion has made me close my eyes and sigh in contentment.

Then you should definitely eat it

jwdieter

Please consider the following restaurant meals:

1) Big Mac with fries followed by a Cadburys Caramel McFlurry
2) Har kau (steamed prawn dumplings) followed by nasi goreng (Indonesian fried rice) served with chicken skewers and satay sauce
3)Steak au poivre with brandy and cream reduction, frites (fries) and aparagus spears tossed in garlic butter followed by salted caramel chocolate torte
4)Poulet Breton (chicken) served with wild mushroom sauce, truffle mash and salade verte followed by crepe with fresh strawberries and Chantilly cream
5)Breaded calamari rings (squid) with tartare sauce and lemon wedges followed by seafood linguine

Which of the above would you consider junk food and harmful to your well being? All of them? Some? Just one?

#1 is the only meal with no vegetables or fruit, and likely has the lowest amount and percentage of protein among the meals. Almost no fiber, carb city.

Plus I think Big Macs are to hamburgers what a tricycle is to a Harley, but that's not the question. Look at what you're getting out of the meal, and #1 is not providing. There are much better meal choices at McDonalds.

UsedToBeHusky

Cadburys Caramel McFlurry

You can get these in the UK???

crosstrich

I would guess that 2-5 are more micronutrient dense then a big mac and fries. Depending on the quality of ingredients and how they are prepared they will have more beneficial nutrients and less processed chemicals then typical american fast food. Some of those meals seem pretty carb rich for me though.

agree w/ this guy. also, since you couldnt find nutritional information im just gunna guess that 2-5 were not chain restaurants, maybe locally owned businesses? in my experience these kinds of places pay alot more attention to serving quality ingredients, and preparing them from scratch, using herbs and spices to bring out flavors, and treating each plate like it's going to a living breathing person, not just stuffing a bag full of cholorine washed arsenic feed hormone drenched food-like substance for a number on the screen.

definitely some food snobbery going on as well, but it goes both ways. have friends or coworkers ever ridiculed you for eating what they consider "sooooo healthy" something like "i cant believe youre eating THAT" ha. i get it just as much.

shaleyn

Not just the poor, but places like McDonalds are synonymous with poor, OBESE people. Like Chinese buffets. For me (a foodie and snob) it probably has to do with personal experiences with McDonald's/junk food frequenters and their completely opposite view of health and life. As I said in the topic about the cost of healthy food, for families who are truly poor, McDonald's is a luxury or a bad financial decision if it's routine.

But that's putting the food quality aside, and for a foodie, you can't really separate that from disdain for a place. Or my general dislike for their marketing practices. Or the smell of their food. Or the taste.

I just don't like it!

So you have disdain for poor, fat people. Duly noted.

MsEndomorph

Not just the poor, but places like McDonalds are synonymous with poor, OBESE people. Like Chinese buffets. For me (a foodie and snob) it probably has to do with personal experiences with McDonald's/junk food frequenters and their completely opposite view of health and life. As I said in the topic about the cost of healthy food, for families who are truly poor, McDonald's is a luxury or a bad financial decision if it's routine.

But that's putting the food quality aside, and for a foodie, you can't really separate that from disdain for a place. Or my general dislike for their marketing practices. Or the smell of their food. Or the taste.

I just don't like it!

So you have disdain for poor, fat people. Duly noted.

Sure, why not. Go ahead and note it.

professorhuggins

just an observation, but meals #2-5 are fine dining, which is not intended to be an everyday experience. if you ate them everyday or even a couple of times a week, they would probably make you just as fat as mcdonalds. the problem with mickey d's is that the price of the food makes it a real option for daily eating for the masses. if ruth's chris offered a giant surf and turf meal for $5.99, they would equally be contributing to the obesity epidemic in our country.

it doesn't even matter anyway...people are going to eat what they want and what makes them feel good until they are more educated about the price of their meals on their health over the long term.

LiftAllThePizzas

Please consider the following restaurant meals:

1) Big Mac with fries followed by a Cadburys Caramel McFlurry
2) Har kau (steamed prawn dumplings) followed by nasi goreng (Indonesian fried rice) served with chicken skewers and satay sauce
3)Steak au poivre with brandy and cream reduction, frites (fries) and aparagus spears tossed in garlic butter followed by salted caramel chocolate torte
4)Poulet Breton (chicken) served with wild mushroom sauce, truffle mash and salade verte followed by crepe with fresh strawberries and Chantilly cream
5)Breaded calamari rings (squid) with tartare sauce and lemon wedges followed by seafood linguine

Which of the above would you consider junk food and harmful to your well being? All of them? Some? Just one?

I ask because I have eaten meals 2-5 in the last month or so. When I have told people I know in RL about them they have all been positive and I have even been positively commended for eating them. I haven't eaten a meal like 1 in some time but I have in the past. This has, on occasion, been met with abject horror along the lines of "why would you eat that rubbish..."

However, I am pretty sure that meals 2-5 are equal, or on occasion dwarf meal 1 in terms of portion size, calorie content, sodium, sugar and saturated fat levels. I say "pretty sure" because the only restaurant that actually listed the nutritional info was McDonalds.

Objectively should we be focusing more of our attention not on restaurants like McDonalds but other restaurants? Isn't it the case that in context it is less harmful than other options with larger portion sizes irrespective of the supposed quality of the ingredients? Is it ok to rag on junk food perhaps because there is a perception that it is what less affluent people eat and is therefore an easier target? Why do birds suddenly appear every time you are near?

I would disagree with the premise that any of them are 'harmful to your well being' except within certain contexts.

LiftAllThePizzas

However, Monsanto's MSG is a drug. Period. It dilates the taste buds to make you think something tastes better, and it also can act as a neurotransmitter.

I'm sorry but how do you come to the conclusion that "tastes better" is anything other than a matter of perception? Please explain the difference between saying something "makes you think it tastes better" and "tastes better."

crosstrich

However, Monsanto's MSG is a drug. Period. It dilates the taste buds to make you think something tastes better, and it also can act as a neurotransmitter.

I'm sorry but how do you come to the conclusion that "tastes better" is anything other than a matter of perception? Please explain the difference between saying something "makes you think it tastes better" and "tastes better."

monsanto's msg? what? i think you need to do some more research into monsanto and msg. the two are not related. monsanto = GMOs. patented seeds. ruining small farms. MSG = monosodiumglutamate, a food additive that is surrounded w/ myths ...

BeccaBollons

Waaaaaaaaaah ahahahaahhhh!




















Close to you-u.

I have always thought that most of the food we eat is the same stuff just in different combinations. For example, flour, water, tomatoes, cheese and ground beef can be bolognese, lasagne, spaghetti and meatballs, pizza or sloppy joes. Its just how its prepared and the quality of the ingredients IMO.

Vailara

I like to have some veg with my evening meal, so for me the ones with veg (other than potato) are more appealing.

However, I'm totally with you on junk food snobbery. It IS a thing! For instance, we have a lot of kebab takeaways in the UK, and kebabs are seen as junk food. A lamb kebab is just grilled lean meat, served with fresh salad and pitta bread (and possibly some sauce). I'm convinced that if they were only available from health food restaurants and not from takeaways they'd be seen as healthy!