General Bulking Observations
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SideSteel
Posts: 11,068 Member
So I'm really just posting this in the hopes that it helps people who are interesting in a mass gaining phase for purposes of improving muscle mass and body composition. I would exclude people looking to gain weight for clinically underweight/health related concerns and that's an important distinction to make if you're in that category.
Basically, most inexperienced trainees gain weight way too fast during bulking phases. This is typically counterproductive for a number of reasons.
1) Rate of muscle gain has theoretical limits largely based on how well you can partition nutrients. There's a limit to how much muscle protein you can synthesize and so the rate at which the extra calories you eat can aid you in adding muscle, is limited. You are not going to perfectly partition nutrients and so as you add weight to your body some of that weight is inevitably going to add as fat mass. The FASTER you gain weight, the more likely it is that you are maximizing the amount of muscle you can gain AND the more likely it is that you are gaining additional fat along with it.
2) The faster you gain weight, the more fat you are likely adding. The fatter you get, the sooner you will turn around and diet. This in itself has some important considerations. Generally speaking, gym performance outcomes during dieting have a tendency to be less favorable. Rates of muscle gain during deficit eating plummet (and can go into the negative, meaning in some cases you can lose muscle during a diet but certainly not ALL cases).
3) Dieting generally sucks. I'd argue that for MOST people, your overall quality of life and happiness is probably going to be slightly better if you can spend a longer period of time at or slightly north of caloric maintenance. Training will generally be better when calories are working in your favor, diet adherence should (at least in theory) be easier in this situation, and you won't be faced with any diet induced stress.
In my opinion, this last point is often overlooked by people and I'm comfortable claiming that this alone makes a more conservative surplus favorable for many people.
Finally, there are considerations when setting rate of weight gain. I tend to look at training experience, past history if we have it, how comfortable the individual is with dieting in general (do they tend to have a really easy time losing fat and a hard time gaining?), and where the individual tolerance level is for carrying body-fat.
Here are some good articles on the topic:
For more information on partitioning see here: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/calorie-partitioning-part-1.html/
For general mass gaining philosophies: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/general-philosophies-of-muscle-mass-gain.html/
For various models of assessing genetic limits, from which you can make some generalizations about rate of weight gain: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/whats-my-genetic-muscular-potential.html/
Finally, often times something quite interesting happens during a bulk that some people aren't aware of. The best way I can describe it is like this:
I have more calories YAY! --> I can fit more junk into my diet ---> I eat more junk food ---> Satiety goes down --> Adherence suffers --> I'm gaining too fast
Doesn't happen to everyone, but it's a somewhat common pitfall that people need to be aware of.
That's about all I've got for now.
Basically, most inexperienced trainees gain weight way too fast during bulking phases. This is typically counterproductive for a number of reasons.
1) Rate of muscle gain has theoretical limits largely based on how well you can partition nutrients. There's a limit to how much muscle protein you can synthesize and so the rate at which the extra calories you eat can aid you in adding muscle, is limited. You are not going to perfectly partition nutrients and so as you add weight to your body some of that weight is inevitably going to add as fat mass. The FASTER you gain weight, the more likely it is that you are maximizing the amount of muscle you can gain AND the more likely it is that you are gaining additional fat along with it.
2) The faster you gain weight, the more fat you are likely adding. The fatter you get, the sooner you will turn around and diet. This in itself has some important considerations. Generally speaking, gym performance outcomes during dieting have a tendency to be less favorable. Rates of muscle gain during deficit eating plummet (and can go into the negative, meaning in some cases you can lose muscle during a diet but certainly not ALL cases).
3) Dieting generally sucks. I'd argue that for MOST people, your overall quality of life and happiness is probably going to be slightly better if you can spend a longer period of time at or slightly north of caloric maintenance. Training will generally be better when calories are working in your favor, diet adherence should (at least in theory) be easier in this situation, and you won't be faced with any diet induced stress.
In my opinion, this last point is often overlooked by people and I'm comfortable claiming that this alone makes a more conservative surplus favorable for many people.
Finally, there are considerations when setting rate of weight gain. I tend to look at training experience, past history if we have it, how comfortable the individual is with dieting in general (do they tend to have a really easy time losing fat and a hard time gaining?), and where the individual tolerance level is for carrying body-fat.
Here are some good articles on the topic:
For more information on partitioning see here: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/calorie-partitioning-part-1.html/
For general mass gaining philosophies: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/general-philosophies-of-muscle-mass-gain.html/
For various models of assessing genetic limits, from which you can make some generalizations about rate of weight gain: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/whats-my-genetic-muscular-potential.html/
Finally, often times something quite interesting happens during a bulk that some people aren't aware of. The best way I can describe it is like this:
I have more calories YAY! --> I can fit more junk into my diet ---> I eat more junk food ---> Satiety goes down --> Adherence suffers --> I'm gaining too fast
Doesn't happen to everyone, but it's a somewhat common pitfall that people need to be aware of.
That's about all I've got for now.
11
Replies
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great read and tagging to follow.
To point two, I went a little crazy on my last bulk and shot for one pound per week gain. Had good strength gains and performance in gym increased, but I definitely put on too much fat. Right now, I am slow cutting to get back down to around 12% body fat, and once I hit that I think I will eat at maintenance for a while and maybe run a small bulk ...
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Excellent post as always! One thing I found is that there is often need for a mini-cut or control days due to gaining a little too fast. I find that bulking can be harder than cutting when it comes to accuracy.0
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Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Excellent post as always! One thing I found is that there is often need for a mini-cut or control days due to gaining a little too fast. I find that bulking can be harder than cutting when it comes to accuracy.
Thanks
I don't know if it's actually harder or if it's that typically people celebrate when a cut goes "too fast" because that's generally viewed as a positive thing whereas gaining weight too fast generally isn't.
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Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Excellent post as always! One thing I found is that there is often need for a mini-cut or control days due to gaining a little too fast. I find that bulking can be harder than cutting when it comes to accuracy.
Thanks
I don't know if it's actually harder or if it's that typically people celebrate when a cut goes "too fast" because that's generally viewed as a positive thing whereas gaining weight too fast generally isn't.
Exactly, I don't mind going from 1/2 pound to a pound or so a week on a cut now and then but doubling on a bulk isn't what I would want.0 -
Nice post0
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thank you. I am trying to gain muscle, but not really "bulking" yet as I just dropped 30 lbs and don't want to gain back "fat" I am all in for anything I can read and decifer on my own. thanks for the links.0
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Great post!
I am currently running a slow but longer bulk this time around, aiming for 1-1.5lbs per month. The only potential issue is there is a higher chance of spinning my wheels and not reaching my goal to gain, but so far so good (especially considering I am not logging, just added an extra snack and added more carbs to my lunches).
A slower bulk will allow me to maintain my physique (to an extent), improve my lifts and energy, and possibly spend less time cutting (we will see about that last one).
Thanks for sharing.
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It's my first time visiting this section. I've fallen farther below my goal weight than I like and I'm now trying to gain weight. I came here wondering with my active lifestyle but no weight lifting if I was destined to gain only fat. The first article was exactly what I was looking for.
First article of the first post I read. That's amazing. Thank you for posting.0 -
TangledThread wrote: »It's my first time visiting this section. I've fallen farther below my goal weight than I like and I'm now trying to gain weight. I came here wondering with my active lifestyle but no weight lifting if I was destined to gain only fat. The first article was exactly what I was looking for.
First article of the first post I read. That's amazing. Thank you for posting.
If you'd like to gain muscle it will require some form of training to elevate protein synthesis.
You don't necessarily need to lift weights to provide that stimulus.1 -
TangledThread wrote: »It's my first time visiting this section. I've fallen farther below my goal weight than I like and I'm now trying to gain weight. I came here wondering with my active lifestyle but no weight lifting if I was destined to gain only fat. The first article was exactly what I was looking for.
First article of the first post I read. That's amazing. Thank you for posting.
If you'd like to gain muscle it will require some form of training to elevate protein synthesis.
You don't necessarily need to lift weights to provide that stimulus.
I hate excising but I love going out and playing and living an active life. So I swim 4 days a week and jog my dog every day (both are play). I walk 1.2 miles to the grocery store and carry home 32 lbs of food 2xs a week, heavy gardening, things like that. The first article showed that I'm not likely to put on 6lbs of pure fat doing this without changing anything but my speed, which keeps getting faster without my really trying. Of course lifting weights would be better but I don't see it happening.
Anyway, I'm just out to have fun and what happens happens but I also like reading about what to expect and how the body uses the extra food was enlightening.
If I gain the weight. LOL. I'm up 0.6 lbs in 3 weeks. Logically I know this is working out exactly as planned but I still had the fear it would all be back in half a second so it feels like I'm not gaining at all. But that's for a different thread.0 -
TangledThread wrote: »TangledThread wrote: »It's my first time visiting this section. I've fallen farther below my goal weight than I like and I'm now trying to gain weight. I came here wondering with my active lifestyle but no weight lifting if I was destined to gain only fat. The first article was exactly what I was looking for.
First article of the first post I read. That's amazing. Thank you for posting.
If you'd like to gain muscle it will require some form of training to elevate protein synthesis.
You don't necessarily need to lift weights to provide that stimulus.
I hate excising but I love going out and playing and living an active life. So I swim 4 days a week and jog my dog every day (both are play). I walk 1.2 miles to the grocery store and carry home 32 lbs of food 2xs a week, heavy gardening, things like that. The first article showed that I'm not likely to put on 6lbs of pure fat doing this without changing anything but my speed, which keeps getting faster without my really trying. Of course lifting weights would be better but I don't see it happening.
Anyway, I'm just out to have fun and what happens happens but I also like reading about what to expect and how the body uses the extra food was enlightening.
If I gain the weight. LOL. I'm up 0.6 lbs in 3 weeks. Logically I know this is working out exactly as planned but I still had the fear it would all be back in half a second so it feels like I'm not gaining at all. But that's for a different thread.
You can gain muscle as long as you are providing your body with persistant overload and volume. Essentially, you have to force your bdoy to becoming stronger and do more. If you do the same routine without increasing a component you will not force your body to become better. With swimming (great resistance program), it would probably require more laps, adding resistance or harder stroke so you push things to the limits more.
Another viable option would be a body weight program that was structured and increases volume, such as; you are your own gym or convict conditiining.1 -
Nice post P.0
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Really helpful post, thanks ☺0
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thanks.
over the past 5 months, I've gained 4 lbs and honestly, I cannot see any fat gains on my body. My butt is beginning to look really nice though. I think I'm doing it the right way.
-100 g of protein
- lots of fiber
- a chocolate bar a day
- progressive overload with barbell hip thrust being my main exercise in each workout
- 4 times per week\
- 250 extra cals per day0 -
Following. Great post!0
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Thanks for this Steel, and I'm glad you lead off with the nutritient partitioning points. This is one area that seems lost on both the "dirty" and "clean" bulkers quite often, especially when they are new to it. I've also seen some older heads who don't pay attention either.
It's one of those funky and highly individual things that have to be accounted for in order to get the most out if any bulking phase. I've seen some guys who keep the skinnyfat look if they try to bulk on anything more than the most moderate of surpluses (people of Indian and Middle Eastern descent seem to suffer this most often), and others who can just slam IHOP four meals per day while taking in a 1000 kcal/day surplus and barely put on any fat. If I didn't know some of the latter personally, I'd swear they were on gear.
Personally, I fall somewhere in the middle, as do most people, I'm sure. Though, I do tend to lean more toward the former than the latter. I am pretty sure though, after reading a lot of Lyle's work, that this has less to do with genetics on my part, and more to do with the fact that I spent so many years being morbidly obese, that my body still wants to put that thick winter coat back on, if ever given the opportunity.1 -
A great post that consolidates some issues and pitfalls that I have fallen for in the past.
A couple of things that I'd throw into the mix (which may be in links - I've not had time to read them yet) are:- Age - As you get older it seems that the muscle goes on slower and so us old guys may need to scale back the gain to very conservative figures to avoid too much fat gain. Even younger women may have to scale back gains considerably. This, in practice, may mean that a bulking phase ends up looking more like a re-comp.
- Height - If your 6'3" you can probably wear a few extra lbs of fat and still look lean, but that doesn't apply to someone who is 5'2".
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StealthHealth wrote: »A great post that consolidates some issues and pitfalls that I have fallen for in the past.
A couple of things that I'd throw into the mix (which may be in links - I've not had time to read them yet) are:- Age - As you get older it seems that the muscle goes on slower and so us old guys may need to scale back the gain to very conservative figures to avoid too much fat gain. Even younger women may have to scale back gains considerably. This, in practice, may mean that a bulking phase ends up looking more like a re-comp.
- Height - If your 6'3" you can probably wear a few extra lbs of fat and still look lean, but that doesn't apply to someone who is 5'2".
I totally agree with this. I am 45 and I've had to do a very slow bulk. It's been 5 months and I've only gained 4 lbs. I'm also 5'8", so for a female I can hide some junk.
It's so much harder for us older ones to control the fat gains; that's why a slow bulk works better for me.
My butt just popped a few weeks ago and I put on a whole pound in one week...it was like no gains for a month and then BAM in one week, I suddenly had a round bum and 1 lb gain. It also coincided with hitting 185 lbs on the barbell hip thrust. Now I'm thrusting 195 lbs and able to do a set of 8, 6 and 7.0 -
StealthHealth wrote: »A great post that consolidates some issues and pitfalls that I have fallen for in the past.
A couple of things that I'd throw into the mix (which may be in links - I've not had time to read them yet) are:- Age - As you get older it seems that the muscle goes on slower and so us old guys may need to scale back the gain to very conservative figures to avoid too much fat gain. Even younger women may have to scale back gains considerably. This, in practice, may mean that a bulking phase ends up looking more like a re-comp.
- Height - If your 6'3" you can probably wear a few extra lbs of fat and still look lean, but that doesn't apply to someone who is 5'2".
I totally agree with this. I am 45 and I've had to do a very slow bulk. It's been 5 months and I've only gained 4 lbs. I'm also 5'8", so for a female I can hide some junk.
It's so much harder for us older ones to control the fat gains; that's why a slow bulk works better for me.
My butt just popped a few weeks ago and I put on a whole pound in one week...it was like no gains for a month and then BAM in one week, I suddenly had a round bum and 1 lb gain. It also coincided with hitting 185 lbs on the barbell hip thrust. Now I'm thrusting 195 lbs and able to do a set of 8, 6 and 7.
5 months and 4 pounds? total?
that's not really a gain IMHO.
I gain water weight of 5-8 pounds when I reverse diet and add more carbs back in. That's way to long to truly be a bulk- I'd file that under recomping rather than bulking.1 -
I was just over in your "Diet Break" thread and was wondering if it would be good to note the importance of a Bulking Break. Or...maybe it's not good to note because it's not as necessary? I noticed this past Sunday (end of week 7 of my bulk) that I had just physically hit a wall. I was exhausted and after progressing each week on my lifts I stalled out on a few and even lost reps on my squat. I decided a rest week was due and so I'm just doing some slow walking this week, getting good sleep, and eating at maintenance. Bummed that I can't turn some turkey and pie into muscle - Boo. Thoughts?0
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