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Who really know what's healthy anymore?
meowmeow4268
Posts: 3 Member
Hey community! Just popping in to ask your thoughts on something that has been driving me a little crazy over the years. We are constantly bombarded with information about what's healthy, how to maintain or lose weight, how to bulk up and how to "look hot in our jeans again." Is one of those people who got suckered into weightloss miracle pills and shakes. I've always been an active person up until my recent desk job status, but what I really want to know is what are your experiences with doctors or nutritionists when you tell them you want to lose some weight? I'm not obese, I have a higher BMI but not over weight and lately haven't felt comfortable in my own skin, I've been through some depression episodes, and have felt that if I can lose about 15 pounds, I'd feel like my old self again. When nothing worked and the scale wouldn't budge even though I was limiting calories and going to high intensity personal training sessions, I sought out some help. I hired a very expensive nutritionist, went to some holistic doctors that diagnosed me with low thyroid and prescribed hormones. I went to a obgyn as I hadn't had a period in months, my health was just out of whack! When I got that on track and the weight still wasn't coming off, but going up I panicked and went to a weightloss clinic.
If I told my nutritionist this, she would scold me. When I told her I was limiting my calories, I was scolded. She basically tells me not to worry about food, stop going out to eat, and limit alcohol and everything will balance out on its own. I was denied any help from the first weightloss clinic I visited, as they said that I didn't have enough to lose. I tried another and This weightloss clinic doctor prescribed phentermine, a popular appetite suppressant (I know, bad! But hold on, it's not so bad!) and a restrictive diet of 800 net calories for two weeks, then one week of 1200 calories. For the first time in a long time I feel great. I've had no bad side effects from the phentermine, this is my second week on it, I've been able to make better choices when eating because I'm not starving all the time, and I've been exercising for 30 mins a day without being miserable about it. Obviously won't be on it forever, but with how much I thought about the weight and how uncomfortable I felt, it was nice to have someone listen and understand and try to help. I think weight gain happens quickly and it sneaks up on us when we're younger and I just wanted to keep it in check. Does anyone else have a similar experience with doctors who really didn't care unless they were morbidly obese or extremely over weight?
Some of the things doctors told me:
-Drink more coffee if you feel depressed and tired
-Take birth control to help with depresssion
-you don't need to lose weight, you need a psychiatrist for body image issues
When I asked my current doctor what a healthy weight would be for me to shoot for, he finally told me what I wanted to hear--only I can decide my ideal weight, only I know where I feel good.
Any thoughts?
If I told my nutritionist this, she would scold me. When I told her I was limiting my calories, I was scolded. She basically tells me not to worry about food, stop going out to eat, and limit alcohol and everything will balance out on its own. I was denied any help from the first weightloss clinic I visited, as they said that I didn't have enough to lose. I tried another and This weightloss clinic doctor prescribed phentermine, a popular appetite suppressant (I know, bad! But hold on, it's not so bad!) and a restrictive diet of 800 net calories for two weeks, then one week of 1200 calories. For the first time in a long time I feel great. I've had no bad side effects from the phentermine, this is my second week on it, I've been able to make better choices when eating because I'm not starving all the time, and I've been exercising for 30 mins a day without being miserable about it. Obviously won't be on it forever, but with how much I thought about the weight and how uncomfortable I felt, it was nice to have someone listen and understand and try to help. I think weight gain happens quickly and it sneaks up on us when we're younger and I just wanted to keep it in check. Does anyone else have a similar experience with doctors who really didn't care unless they were morbidly obese or extremely over weight?
Some of the things doctors told me:
-Drink more coffee if you feel depressed and tired
-Take birth control to help with depresssion
-you don't need to lose weight, you need a psychiatrist for body image issues
When I asked my current doctor what a healthy weight would be for me to shoot for, he finally told me what I wanted to hear--only I can decide my ideal weight, only I know where I feel good.
Any thoughts?
2
Replies
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When it comes to weight loss or gain or maintenance, it's surprisingly simple. Calories are the only thing that matter for weight/fat.
A lot of people want to make you think it's more complicated than that because they're selling you something. I have this system of getting you to eat less calories without knowing that's what you're doing (say you're not allowed to eat sugar, or whatever else) and you can pay me $100 a month to use it. Of course I want you to think this is really complicated and you can't figure it out for yourself - I want your $100!
Also, most doctors that people go to regularly aren't experts in any one thing. What I mean is you see a general practitioner, somebody who's knowledge is more wide than deep. They can help you if you have a broken bone or if you're depressed or any number of things. But maybe a nutrition specialist is a better resource. On top of that, one thing you need to have in order to be a doctor is "bedside manner," you need to make people feel like you have the answer.5 -
Actually, I think it's pretty much common sense...See all of those nutritious whole foods in your grocery store...yeah, emphasize those.6
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My most recent physician is the one who told me I needed to lose weight. I already knew I had to, but it helped push me into action. She wanted to know what I intended to do. I told her: use MFP, make sure I burned more calories than I consumed, we discussed a desirable calorie intake. I told her I was going to try to keep my intake of processed foods low, cook more, try to hit recommended amounts of fat, protein, carbs, etc.
I would suggest you seek not a nutritionist, but a registered dietician. If your physician cannot tell you what the weight range should be for someone your age, gender, and height, I think you need to look for a new physician.
Without knowing your age, height, current weight, etc. I don't think anyone here can suggest a BMI range to shoot for.3 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »Actually, I think it's pretty much common sense...See all of those nutritious whole foods in your grocery store...yeah, emphasize those.
I agree with this.
OP, you probably wouldn't need a drug to deal with appetite if you weren't trying to go too low, and if you aren't an unhealthy weight it's not a good idea to get into a cutting low/feeling starving kind of pattern, that often ends up with a higher overall weight in the long run. I'd suggest eating normally, logging for a week or two, and then looking over your logs to see how much you are eating and maybe where you can cut back (alcohol often is an easy one, or reducing the amount of some higher cal foods and eating more nutrient dense foods of the sort we all know are good for us, I think).3 -
What the what is happening here?
OP, you're on phentermine and an 800 calorie diet to lose 15 lbs. That's ridiculous, especially since I highly doubt you're ensuring adequate nutrition on such low calories. I think you've changed doctors and sought out specialists to validate your feelings rather than address the real issue: you have depression and a bad body image that's probably body dysmorphia, things that should be addressed by a therapist and not by a weight loss clinic that's all too happy to take your hard-earned money. You've also obviously had an irresponsible doctor or two if you've been told to try to fix depression with coffee. I just can't even with all of this, and I'm both mad and very sad that this situation even exists.
But to answer the questions actually posed to us:
1) "Healthy" is eating an appropriate amount for your activity level, achieving and maintaining a weight that puts you at low risk for health complications, not sitting on your butt all the time, and eating a balanced diet that gives you adequate nutrition. Hit your macros with mostly whole foods and your micros will be taken care of. Worrying about if you're eating enough kale or if there's "toxins" building up in your system or if your workout is "blasting" enough fat is unnecessarily and often erroneously complicating things.
2) When I saw the free nutritionist my college offered 6 years ago, she asked me why I (as a 150 lb, 5'5" female) wanted to lose weight, and I said I didn't want to buy bigger jeans. She gave me a daily goal of 1400 calories and some tips on how to get my macros in, and off I went. She understood calories are king, she didn't try to push fad foods on me, she didn't tell me to never eat out, she didn't try to blame my thyroid, and she didn't suggest I try to get medication to lose a few lbs.21 -
I would say if you are being "bombarded" with something in the media, there's a good chance it's snake oil and won't do much for your health, particularly if there is a buck to be made from it. I'm pretty old school, and like counting my calories, eating my greens (and the rest of the rainbow), hitting my protein macro, and getting my butt into the gym or out in nature.1
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The coffee thing and the birth control thing seem really weird to me. Birth control is more known for causing depression, not helping it. And coffee doesn't cure depression either...
Sorry I don't have any experience to comment on the rest.1 -
Controlling weight is too easy to bother going to see a doctor about.
- Figure out how many calories you should be eating to reach your goals. This site will help.
- Count calories religiously for 3 weeks. This site will help, but you also need a $12 food scale.
- After 3 weeks, check your weight to see if you're eating too much, too little, or just enough. Adjust as needed.
- Check your weight every 3-4 weeks and adjust as needed. Eventually you'll hit on the exact amount you should be eating to reach your goals. It will probably take a couple of months.
Most people don't have the discipline to even complete step 2. Then they fail and blame everything except their own lack of self-control, which was the only thing that caused their failure.
If you want it, you can do it, just as thousands of others here have.
Good luck.9 -
I find the WHO (World Health Organisation) has the best information as they carry out meta analyses of lots of different health related scientific articles.
Doctors often have VERY little nutritional training.
Nutritionists (in many countries) don't have to have formal nutrition training and can pretty much promote any health information they want, even if it's not evidence based.
Seeing a dietitian is a better choice than seeing a nutritionist, as they have to go through training and usually work from an evidence based perspective.
Having a decent amount of vegetables is one piece of health information that is almost never contended!
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chocolate_owl wrote: »What the what is happening here?
OP, you're on phentermine and an 800 calorie diet to lose 15 lbs. That's ridiculous, especially since I highly doubt you're ensuring adequate nutrition on such low calories. I think you've changed doctors and sought out specialists to validate your feelings rather than address the real issue: you have depression and a bad body image that's probably body dysmorphia, things that should be addressed by a therapist and not by a weight loss clinic that's all too happy to take your hard-earned money. You've also obviously had an irresponsible doctor or two if you've been told to try to fix depression with coffee. I just can't even with all of this, and I'm both mad and very sad that this situation even exists.
I fully concur with this! One addition, mental health is just as important as physical. If you're not healthy up top don't expect the body to be healthy. Depression can lead to poor sleeping habits and those habits lead to challenges losing weight. There have been studies backing this up.
That being said, my sister has thyroid issues and the medicine helps but you must be periodically checked then the dosage changed so this could be your issue0 -
Irresponsible doctor that's giving out scripts for phentermine when you have so little to lose.4
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Do you feel your best right now cause the weight is coming off? It seriously cannot be due to your current medication and calorie intake.. VLCD with medication seems unwarranted and quite extreme with ONLY 15 pounds to lose.
Doctors will care cause you mention your concerns to them. And if they can't help they should refer to you the appropriate doctor or resource that can.. If they are not listening you keep trying.
Doctors do get perks for the scripts they write from pharmaceutical companies.. Its their job to try and cure with pills.. I think you can do all of this for free using the tools available to you, along side the community here for advice when needed. The forums and Most Helpful Posts provides priceless amounts of information to educate you and help you.. again its free..
I would ditch the doctor personally.1 -
I agree this is a body image issue. The loss of your period was a clue. Your extreme dieting is harming you far more than the fifteen pounds.
What information can you trust? I tell my gullible friends to go to national and international health sites like the WHO, and believe double-blind peer reviewed studies.
The rest is just noise.5 -
Listening to opinions on here is like having your friends fix your golf game. Sorry folks, opinions are like a**holes. We all have one, but there is not much in them. You are losing weight, not building a space shuttle. Think about where you want to be and the best and safest way to get there. Then, go there. Good luck. jgnatca is right. A lot of noise.0
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I also agree this is a body image issue.
I also think you have learned nothing about how weight loss works or about calorie management and will put the weight right back on.
Healthy weight loss is achieved every day by people who eat balanced diets with enough calories (certainly more than 800) to give them the nutrients they need and enough energy to fuel their activity. They develop healthy habits and learn behaviors to maintain what weight loss they achieve.
You're not doing that.4 -
What works for me: Listening to my body and my mind. I can lose weight if I restrict calories. However, if that is all I focus on, most of my mind is focused on what I can eat, when I can eat and how much. When I've focused on eating whole foods (minimally processed foods) AND used MFP to track calories I can sustain a weight loss and not have every waking moment focused on food.
As for physicians and weight loss advice: An M.D. degree does not make someone a weight loss expert. Weight loss is a big business...and an easy way to make money. Sure, you'll lose weight on 800 calories a day, but the key is: Can you sustain your weight loss?1 -
what i'm hearing is irritation at the way the stories keep changing - and at the scoldiness from the people you've consulted. both are pretty valid, but a) i'm 51 and have gotten to where everything is a matter of 'don't like it? wait 6 months and the Received Truth will be something else', and b) unprofessionalism is everywhere. and that's more of an individual-person type thing.
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Sensibly restricting calories not ridiculously restricting calories. 800 calories is not healthy. That's just common sense. I agree with everyone who mentioned focusing on eating nutrionally dense foods in the proper portion. AS far as depression & "not feeling comfortable in your own skin," sounds like something else going on, but you are focusing on weight instead. Not alot of weight either. Perhaps you need to do some kind things for yourself or something fun...or do something kind for someone else or something fun with someone else.2
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xmichaelyx wrote: »Controlling weight is too easy to bother going to see a doctor about.
- Figure out how many calories you should be eating to reach your goals. This site will help.
- Count calories religiously for 3 weeks. This site will help, but you also need a $12 food scale.
- After 3 weeks, check your weight to see if you're eating too much, too little, or just enough. Adjust as needed.
- Check your weight every 3-4 weeks and adjust as needed. Eventually you'll hit on the exact amount you should be eating to reach your goals. It will probably take a couple of months.
Most people don't have the discipline to even complete step 2. Then they fail and blame everything except their own lack of self-control, which was the only thing that caused their failure.
If you want it, you can do it, just as thousands of others here have.
Good luck.
I agree with this, but really if you are someone without the patience for it many can do it even without doing (2). Log what you eat (or even just write it down), make cuts and if you can/are willing to add activity, and see how you are doing in about 3 weeks, adjust if necessary.
It never crossed my mind to seek a doctor's help when I lost weight, although my doctor subsequently asked me some questions about what I was doing and said "that's great."2 -
chocolate_owl wrote: »What the what is happening here?
OP, you're on phentermine and an 800 calorie diet to lose 15 lbs. That's ridiculous, especially since I highly doubt you're ensuring adequate nutrition on such low calories. I think you've changed doctors and sought out specialists to validate your feelings rather than address the real issue: you have depression and a bad body image that's probably body dysmorphia, things that should be addressed by a therapist and not by a weight loss clinic that's all too happy to take your hard-earned money. You've also obviously had an irresponsible doctor or two if you've been told to try to fix depression with coffee. I just can't even with all of this, and I'm both mad and very sad that this situation even exists.
But to answer the questions actually posed to us:
1) "Healthy" is eating an appropriate amount for your activity level, achieving and maintaining a weight that puts you at low risk for health complications, not sitting on your butt all the time, and eating a balanced diet that gives you adequate nutrition. Hit your macros with mostly whole foods and your micros will be taken care of. Worrying about if you're eating enough kale or if there's "toxins" building up in your system or if your workout is "blasting" enough fat is unnecessarily and often erroneously complicating things.
2) When I saw the free nutritionist my college offered 6 years ago, she asked me why I (as a 150 lb, 5'5" female) wanted to lose weight, and I said I didn't want to buy bigger jeans. She gave me a daily goal of 1400 calories and some tips on how to get my macros in, and off I went. She understood calories are king, she didn't try to push fad foods on me, she didn't tell me to never eat out, she didn't try to blame my thyroid, and she didn't suggest I try to get medication to lose a few lbs.
So. Much. This.
OP, whoever prescribed you phentermine and put you on an 800 calorie diet is an idiot. You're not getting adequate nutrition and the only reason you "feel great" is because of the freaking amphetamine derived stimulant you are taking.
I can understand worrying about weight sneaking up on you and putting weight on slowly over time without really realizing what was happening; however, going on a VLCD with the help of psychostimulant drugs is not the answer.
Who really knows what's healthy anymore? Well it sure as heck isn't what you're doing right now.
8 -
Do you feel your best right now cause the weight is coming off? It seriously cannot be due to your current medication and calorie intake.. VLCD with medication seems unwarranted and quite extreme with ONLY 15 pounds to lose.
Doctors will care cause you mention your concerns to them. And if they can't help they should refer to you the appropriate doctor or resource that can.. If they are not listening you keep trying.
Doctors do get perks for the scripts they write from pharmaceutical companies.. Its their job to try and cure with pills.. I think you can do all of this for free using the tools available to you, along side the community here for advice when needed. The forums and Most Helpful Posts provides priceless amounts of information to educate you and help you.. again its free..
I would ditch the doctor personally.
Just a comment. The bolded is changing. Some health care systems are now forbidding employees from taking benefits with any monetary value from any vendor - that includes pharmaceutical companies. Mine won't even let you take a free pen and notepad from a rep anymore. If you do and they find out about it is considered a conflict of interest and is grounds for dismissal.
Not that I think OP is seeing a doctor that would honor such a rule. Not with the prescriptions he/she is apparently making.1 -
You're right in that knowing what's healthy can be confusing with all the information coming at us.
What's not confusing is things that are clearly unhealthy. Body dysmorphic disorder is unhealthy.2 -
Whoa! Thanks to everyone who took the time to respond here, I appreciate it! Just a few questions answered really quick:
-The nutritionist I mentioned speaking with (over the course of 6 months, 1 hour every two weeks) IS a registered dietitian. She has never given me a meal plan, never told me to restrict calories, just told me to accept the way I am which--I get it, but I also can't lie to myself and say I am happy with the way I look and my clothes fit. I'm not trying to get my high school body back or anything crazy, just be comfortable and not think about eating/body image all the time. Thus, the conundrum that was my post.
-I should have specified that the 800-1000 calories is NET calories, so the bottom line is actually higher. My apologies, that was confusing. So a quick description, you'd take the protein, fiber and alcohol sugars in a given food, multiple by four (four calories in 1g protein, fiber, AS) and subtract that from the total calories in the food = NET calories. It's not as crazy as it sounds. There are other parts of it, like getting in 80-100g protein daily, making sure protein is the first thing you eat in the am. I'm not saying this is a perfect way to eat I am just saying what they told me.
-I have no idea why they gave me the phentermine it was optional and they told me it was an appetite suppressant, so I took it thinking any little help is good help, but I don't feel high or wired I just don't feel low, I'm just normal when I take it. I don't take it everyday even though I am supposed to out of fear of dependence.
-According to BMI I am juuuuust into the overweight category I am 5'7, I was 167lbs, 26yo female. 29.8 BMI
- I admit a certain level of lacking in self control, I love food and I love trying to restaurants and going out with friends, the phentermine helps with that.
-I am not a complete idiot and I know what nutritious food is and what isn't, I promise. This isn't the first instance I have tried to lose this weight, it's been a couple years of experimenting with different types of exercise, personal training, food cutting, etc. I never expected to lose the weight over night but after three months of vigorous exercise 4-5 times per week, and dieting with no results I was looking for different answers. Things I know: 1. I live in the beer capital of the U.S. and I drink too much of it. 2. I lived in an awesome place with amazing restaurants and I eat too much of that. 3. I have a desk job that puts me in front of a computer 8 hours a day which is the worst.
-I was tested and DIAGNOSED with low thyroid, that is why I was put on medication, it was not out of the blue or just a guess. I have since stopped taking the medication after leveling out.
-Totally right about the doctors getting perks for prescriptions, my mother is a nurse at a neurosurgical group, and it drives her crazy and I have heard about it my entire life. They too have made changes where this can't happen anymore. (They use to give doctors whole paid vacations, cars, etc.).
My point was, no one really wanted to give me the time of day until phentermine doctor, so I guess I was just happy someone listened to my concerns instead of turning me away. Now I wake up early in the morning, I walk around the neighborhood for 45 minutes everyday, with this app I am able to see how much I was actually eating and where to cut back. If everyone has something different to say about health, whose to say it's not healthy for me to live this way until I can get to a spot where I feel comfortable?
If you read through all the suggestions here, you will see my point.
Thanks again for all of your responses, this is such a cool community of people and a great app.
1 -
Off-topic, but I didn't know you could stop taking thyroid medication. I thought it was a forever kind of thing.3
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meowmeow4268 wrote: »
Some of the things doctors told me:
-Drink more coffee if you feel depressed and tired
-Take birth control to help with depresssion
-you don't need to lose weight, you need a psychiatrist for body image issues
When I asked my current doctor what a healthy weight would be for me to shoot for, he finally told me what I wanted to hear--only I can decide my ideal weight, only I know where I feel good.
Any thoughts?
drink more coffee if you are depressed and tired? coffee is not going to cure or treat depression(ive had depression before),or at least not that I know of,it can give you energy
Birth control for depression? umm birth control is usually used to prevent pregnancy,regulate hormones and help with cysts and what not but for depression? the 3rd one is the only one I would agree with. as for not taking your thyroid meds,I dont think that is something you should be doing,Im pretty sure once you are on them you are on them for life. even if your thyroid levels have leveled out you still take it. get a new dr and a dietitian(a new one) both sound like they just want to prescribe meds and not get to the real issues0 -
Off-topic, but I didn't know you could stop taking thyroid medication. I thought it was a forever kind of thing.
Mine was not astronomically low, It was diagnosed using a 24 urine test, and was actually normal if measured using the standard blood test. The next doctor I went to told me the urine test was always more accurate, so they did that, said it was low and put me on thyroid meds, then told me if I started feeling better, got period again I can go off them. (so I did).0 -
If you visit a functional doctor the probability is that you will not need to take thyroid medication all your life. They set out to discover the cause of your symptoms, then set to correcting them, providing the right combination of vitamins and minerals, etc, sometimes with conventional medications. The idea is to enable the person if at all possible to regain thyroid function by nutrition. This process can be complicated involving balancing the endocrine system.
Conversely general western medicine tell you to take this t4 synthetic iodine and think, tell you, it is job done. Pharmaceutical companies are happy because they have someone trapped for a life time, so the £'s or $'s pour in. Many people being treated by the tsh method are left with the symptoms they already had. Most people with thyroid issues are women. The numbers effected are 8 or 9 women to 1 man.
It is possible for many people to manage without medication. There is a larger proportion of our population who are un-diagnosed with a thyroid condition in the world than there are treated ones! It is more common than you think. The problems do get worse if you do not take thyroid support. One site gives 300 as the possible number of symptoms. The thyroid hormone t3 the active form, in different texts its referred to as, "the spark of life", in others "the Brain hormone", because the brain needs so very much of it, people who do not respond to mental health medication probably have a form of t3 thyroid hormone problem. It is that important and used to be recognised.
As the thyroid declines. a person will develop "their" bodies personal choice of; "digestive" issues, (discover reactions to different foods for no apparent reason) develop IBS or develop Gaul stones, have low stomach acid and liver problems. "heart" issues, some "cancers", "reproductive" health issues, "breathing" problems, chemical sensitivity and more, but none of this matters as long as the tsh is in the normal range, according to the general medical system. This system particularly in the UK makes no allowance for those with allergic or intolerant reactions to the medication, they are not permitted to offer a hypoallergenic version for those who's condition actually gets worse when on the medication. It is the patient, not the medication which is at fault. These people are left with nowhere to go.
The role the thyroid plays within the Endocrine system is understated. Please do your own research. Read from Stop the Thyroid Madness, which has been about for 20 years or more,in the hope of reforming the poor treatment. Read from your national thyroid support sites. Most interesting are the hospital papers released into the public realm, its probable in a couple of evenings reading you will have learned more than the average medical student, frightening! Sufferers who fail to fall into the Western Medical "proforma of symptoms" can become more knowledgeable than many doctors trying to in theory help them. I'm one, now using the functional perspective with wonderful results. Getting my life back. I'll never take an antibiotic again if I can avoid it. Antibiotics play hell with the digestive tract microbes killing the beneficial ones as well as what ails you. This can lead to autoimmune problems because the majority of the immune system is in the gut. Specific microbes in the form of probiotics designed to replace the microbes eliminated by antibiotics, can work real wonders. The science is there, please look.2 -
Off-topic, but I didn't know you could stop taking thyroid medication. I thought it was a forever kind of thing.
She's the second person I've seen say that.
I don't know. I have autoimmune thyroid problems, and that is the most common form of underactive thyroid. As far as I know, your immune system doesn't just stop attacking your thyroid.
This is just weird to me. I've been on medication now since 1995.1 -
yeah Im not going to let some book tell me differently.especially when the "dr" who wrote the book has no background in any kind of health issues.no degrees is health,science,etc.https://www.linkedin.com/in/janiebowthorpe
most of the drs who helped her with the book are naturopaths/alternative "drs" and ones a gynecologist.4 -
If you're in the normal BMI range already, then your dr is right to say your ideal weight is upto your own personal preference. I prefer to be in the lower end of the healthy range.1
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