Creatine demotivating whilst cutting...
Replies
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Christine_72 wrote: »@CharlieBeansmomTracey I copied this from an Aussie website. I don't think it's even available in meds here??
"Quick Ephedra Summary Points
Ephedra is a stimulant herb that is also a BANNED substance in Australia and many other countries.
While the ingredient was effective for fat loss, it was also believed to be an ingredient used to make Ecstasy.
Your best alternatives to ephedra for fat burning would be natural fat burners and fat metabolisers.
Ephedra Availability
Due to legislative change Ephedra is now unavailable in Australia. Fortunately advancements in research and development in the sports supplement industry has resulted in the release of new supplements that not only replace the now banned Ephera, but provide fat loss supplements of equal or superior performance.
What is Ephedra?
Ephedra is a stimulating herb growing in arid regions of the world, and is also known as Ma Huang and Herbal Ecstasy. The Chinese have been using it for more than 5,000 years. The main active chemical component of ephedra is ephedrine, which increases the heart rate and body temperature. Due to Ephedra’s banning, supplement companies no longer manufacture Ephedra products containing Ephedra Alkaloids.
Why Was Ephedra Banned?
Ephedra was launched by the supplement industry as a key ingredient in the fat loss supplements. It is believed the use of ephedra as an ingredient in recreational drugs such as Ecstasy & the death of an American baseball athlete, who used Ephedra to enhance performance, brought about the ingredients ban.
Ephedra Risks
Thermogenic supplements are not for everyone. Whilst they can suppress appetite, these supplements can bring aboutmoodiness, headaches, anxiety, nervousness, sleeplessness, and nausea, to name a few symptoms."
Yes, it was believed to be the cause of the death of a young athlete so we all panic yet millions have taken it without known issue. Hysteria always beats fact but what evidence was there that it was ephedra that caused his death and that he wasn't taking anything else, which is very likely.
As for the Ecstasy, that's an illegal drug and if you are going to ban ephedra to stop production of Ecstasy, which isn't as bad as the stimulant sold as Ecstasy to the unsuspecting, then you are fighting the war on drugs that has been lost years ago.
Canada has had legal sales of Ephedra for years now and there haven't been any huge rash of deaths here due to it.0 -
CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »In response to all the Ephedrine fear mongering: it is perfectly safe and one of the only effective legal "supplements" when paired with caffeine.
if its so safe why was it banned in some country's? it raises you blood pressure,body temp among other issues(including death in some) it can cause(yeah yeah side effects come with any supplements,meds,etc). its a stimulant why would you pair it with coffee which is another stimulant? are you taking it? to me if someone needs to take these things then they really arent accomplishing anything and would hate to see your health years from now.
Alcohol is banned in a lot of places, cigarettes are far deadlier, why can I buy those? I can also buy T1's (Tylenol with a small amount of codeine) without a prescription but you can't in the US and there are things you can buy in the US that you can't get here. That's not a reason in and of itself to say it's a deadly substance, it's how you use it or abuse it.
It's paired with caffeine because it's known to be more effective at fat mobilization when taken together.1 -
Not sure why you blame creatine, it's maximum water retention is about 4 lbs and it's within the muscle so it makes them look larger, which is what you want. Don't worry about the scale just look at the mirror.0
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trigden1991 wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »In response to all the Ephedrine fear mongering: it is perfectly safe and one of the only effective legal "supplements" when paired with caffeine.
if its so safe why was it banned in some country's? it raises you blood pressure,body temp among other issues(including death in some) it can cause(yeah yeah side effects come with any supplements,meds,etc). its a stimulant why would you pair it with coffee which is another stimulant? are you taking it? to me if someone needs to take these things then they really arent accomplishing anything and would hate to see your health years from now.
Because there are people that think "hey if 1 tablet works, why not take 8 to lose faster".
I would suggest reading about the EC stack as it is highly researched and proven to work. Myself and many others on here have taken it with great success. It is only illegal in pure form and can ephedrine can be bought over the counter in most countries in the form of decongestants.
so you do take it then? is that also the reason you are way under calories(under 500 some days,under 1000-1500 most and really almost no fat)? because you have no appetite from taking these things? and this is a genuine question,not a stab at you.2 -
Wheelhouse15 wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »In response to all the Ephedrine fear mongering: it is perfectly safe and one of the only effective legal "supplements" when paired with caffeine.
if its so safe why was it banned in some country's? it raises you blood pressure,body temp among other issues(including death in some) it can cause(yeah yeah side effects come with any supplements,meds,etc). its a stimulant why would you pair it with coffee which is another stimulant? are you taking it? to me if someone needs to take these things then they really arent accomplishing anything and would hate to see your health years from now.
Alcohol is banned in a lot of places, cigarettes are far deadlier, why can I buy those? I can also buy T1's (Tylenol with a small amount of codeine) without a prescription but you can't in the US and there are things you can buy in the US that you can't get here. That's not a reason in and of itself to say it's a deadly substance, it's how you use it or abuse it.
It's paired with caffeine because it's known to be more effective at fat mobilization when taken together.
you cant say whether cigarettes are deadlier than ephedrine because there from what I gather are no scientific tests seeing which of the two is worse. cigarettes are long term health risks usually, and taking ephedrine for some people can result in death or bad side effects just taking it once, maybe a few times for some. especially pairing it with caffeine.if you really have to use stimulants to slim down and build muscle then you are in my opinion doing it wrong.but hey if those of you want to ruin your health by doing this,be my guest.1 -
CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »In response to all the Ephedrine fear mongering: it is perfectly safe and one of the only effective legal "supplements" when paired with caffeine.
if its so safe why was it banned in some country's? it raises you blood pressure,body temp among other issues(including death in some) it can cause(yeah yeah side effects come with any supplements,meds,etc). its a stimulant why would you pair it with coffee which is another stimulant? are you taking it? to me if someone needs to take these things then they really arent accomplishing anything and would hate to see your health years from now.
Alcohol is banned in a lot of places, cigarettes are far deadlier, why can I buy those? I can also buy T1's (Tylenol with a small amount of codeine) without a prescription but you can't in the US and there are things you can buy in the US that you can't get here. That's not a reason in and of itself to say it's a deadly substance, it's how you use it or abuse it.
It's paired with caffeine because it's known to be more effective at fat mobilization when taken together.
you cant say whether cigarettes are deadlier than ephedrine because there from what I gather are no scientific tests seeing which of the two is worse. cigarettes are long term health risks usually, and taking ephedrine for some people can result in death or bad side effects just taking it once, maybe a few times for some. especially pairing it with caffeine.if you really have to use stimulants to slim down and build muscle then you are in my opinion doing it wrong.but hey if those of you want to ruin your health by doing this,be my guest.
What scientific tests are you referring too? With all the Tabaco related deaths that are known you are telling me ephedra is killing more people? Causing more long term health problems than one of the most dangerous legal products on the market? Please show me this proof because that would be very interesting. The number of deaths even vaguely associated with ephedra was under 100 yet millions die a year to Tabaco related illnesses, hardly in the same league.
Also, you don't use this to build muscle, and if I recall correctly you also confused DNP with a steroid, I really don't think you understand what these products do or the dangerous to be frank.1 -
Wheelhouse15 wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »In response to all the Ephedrine fear mongering: it is perfectly safe and one of the only effective legal "supplements" when paired with caffeine.
if its so safe why was it banned in some country's? it raises you blood pressure,body temp among other issues(including death in some) it can cause(yeah yeah side effects come with any supplements,meds,etc). its a stimulant why would you pair it with coffee which is another stimulant? are you taking it? to me if someone needs to take these things then they really arent accomplishing anything and would hate to see your health years from now.
Alcohol is banned in a lot of places, cigarettes are far deadlier, why can I buy those? I can also buy T1's (Tylenol with a small amount of codeine) without a prescription but you can't in the US and there are things you can buy in the US that you can't get here. That's not a reason in and of itself to say it's a deadly substance, it's how you use it or abuse it.
It's paired with caffeine because it's known to be more effective at fat mobilization when taken together.
you cant say whether cigarettes are deadlier than ephedrine because there from what I gather are no scientific tests seeing which of the two is worse. cigarettes are long term health risks usually, and taking ephedrine for some people can result in death or bad side effects just taking it once, maybe a few times for some. especially pairing it with caffeine.if you really have to use stimulants to slim down and build muscle then you are in my opinion doing it wrong.but hey if those of you want to ruin your health by doing this,be my guest.
What scientific tests are you referring too? With all the Tabaco related deaths that are known you are telling me ephedra is killing more people? Causing more long term health problems than one of the most dangerous legal products on the market? Please show me this proof because that would be very interesting. The number of deaths even vaguely associated with ephedra was under 100 yet millions die a year to Tabaco related illnesses, hardly in the same league.
Also, you don't use this to build muscle, and if I recall correctly you also confused DNP with a steroid, I really don't think you understand what these products do or the dangerous to be frank.
I did not say there were studies, I said as far as I knew there were NO studies between the 2 to see which one is worse than the other,do you have reading comprehension problems?,I also didnt say that ephedrine is killing more people than tobacco. as for tobacco killing people. never said it didnt. but just because someone dies of say lung cancer does not mean its caused by tobacco. I have had family members die of cancer(lung,and other) and none of it was due to smoking or smoke related. my mom has been smoking over 50 years, no lung cancer or cancer or any kind. she is also an alcoholic and has been drinking heavily over 30 years, no fatty liver,no other health issues. and actually I did look up these products. DNP is a performance enhancer and considered deadly. I know its used to lose fat, actually that is what a deficit is for. there is no need for something so deadly to lose fat,if you cant lose fat and build muscle(which DNP doesnt do) naturally then like I said you are doing it wrong. I did say that tobacco is usually a long term thing that can kill a person(not everyone who smokes dies from cancer),I did say that using ephedrine can kill a person using it just once. again, if you people want to harm your bodies with these performing enhancing drugs that were proven unsafe and banned,be my guest. if you want to smoke and drink,be my guest. a performing enhancement drug is just that, steroids are the same-"PED" There is this too
DNP - (2,4-Dinitrophenol)
ALTERNATIVE STEROID NAMES:1 Hydroxy-2,4-dinitrophenol, Solfo Black, Nitrophen, Aldifen, and Chemox.0 -
PED does not equal unhealthy, banned or not.6
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CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »In response to all the Ephedrine fear mongering: it is perfectly safe and one of the only effective legal "supplements" when paired with caffeine.
if its so safe why was it banned in some country's? it raises you blood pressure,body temp among other issues(including death in some) it can cause(yeah yeah side effects come with any supplements,meds,etc). its a stimulant why would you pair it with coffee which is another stimulant? are you taking it? to me if someone needs to take these things then they really arent accomplishing anything and would hate to see your health years from now.
Alcohol is banned in a lot of places, cigarettes are far deadlier, why can I buy those? I can also buy T1's (Tylenol with a small amount of codeine) without a prescription but you can't in the US and there are things you can buy in the US that you can't get here. That's not a reason in and of itself to say it's a deadly substance, it's how you use it or abuse it.
It's paired with caffeine because it's known to be more effective at fat mobilization when taken together.
you cant say whether cigarettes are deadlier than ephedrine because there from what I gather are no scientific tests seeing which of the two is worse. cigarettes are long term health risks usually, and taking ephedrine for some people can result in death or bad side effects just taking it once, maybe a few times for some. especially pairing it with caffeine.if you really have to use stimulants to slim down and build muscle then you are in my opinion doing it wrong.but hey if those of you want to ruin your health by doing this,be my guest.
What scientific tests are you referring too? With all the Tabaco related deaths that are known you are telling me ephedra is killing more people? Causing more long term health problems than one of the most dangerous legal products on the market? Please show me this proof because that would be very interesting. The number of deaths even vaguely associated with ephedra was under 100 yet millions die a year to Tabaco related illnesses, hardly in the same league.
Also, you don't use this to build muscle, and if I recall correctly you also confused DNP with a steroid, I really don't think you understand what these products do or the dangerous to be frank.
I did not say there were studies, I said as far as I knew there were NO studies between the 2 to see which one is worse than the other,do you have reading comprehension problems?,I also didnt say that ephedrine is killing more people than tobacco. as for tobacco killing people. never said it didnt. but just because someone dies of say lung cancer does not mean its caused by tobacco. I have had family members die of cancer(lung,and other) and none of it was due to smoking or smoke related. my mom has been smoking over 50 years, no lung cancer or cancer or any kind. she is also an alcoholic and has been drinking heavily over 30 years, no fatty liver,no other health issues. and actually I did look up these products. DNP is a performance enhancer and considered deadly. I know its used to lose fat, actually that is what a deficit is for. there is no need for something so deadly to lose fat,if you cant lose fat and build muscle(which DNP doesnt do) naturally then like I said you are doing it wrong. I did say that tobacco is usually a long term thing that can kill a person(not everyone who smokes dies from cancer),I did say that using ephedrine can kill a person using it just once. again, if you people want to harm your bodies with these performing enhancing drugs that were proven unsafe and banned,be my guest. if you want to smoke and drink,be my guest. a performing enhancement drug is just that, steroids are the same-"PED" There is this too
DNP - (2,4-Dinitrophenol)
ALTERNATIVE STEROID NAMES:1 Hydroxy-2,4-dinitrophenol, Solfo Black, Nitrophen, Aldifen, and Chemox.
Aside from your illogical claims about the deadly nature of the substance without any proof other than media hype you are really mixing things up. There are no studies to compare them because there aren't any studies that prove that ephedra is a dangerous substance as you claim, yet smoking is a Class A carcinogen along with many other known ill side effects, yet you seem to be saying that it's no big deal, yet ephedra is horrible, just wow. Also, look up the number of alcohol and tabco related deaths and illnesses and look up the deaths proven to be related to ephedra. I'm not the one with the comprehension issue here you fail to understand the context of why it was banned and why it is no longer banned in my country. Ephedra was the most widely used diet product at one time yet the number of suspected deaths from it were extremely low, unlike tabco..
A steroid is a chemical structure, not just limited to anabolic steroid (e.g. cortisol is also a steroid but it's catabolic), but now you are just trying to play with the semantics from common meaning to chemical meaning, which you certainly were not using in that context. DNP is not a performance enhancer in any way as an anabolic steroid like Anavar would be. Again, you clearly have no idea what you are talking about here, you see a word you think you understand but have no idea how it really applies to chemistry so ASSUME that it's for building muscle when in fact, it has no anabolic effects.
You seem to really be misrepresenting a lot in that little rant. But hey if you want to smoke and drink and defend it then have at it.6 -
Excalty ☝️☝️☝️☝️1
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Wheelhouse15 wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »In response to all the Ephedrine fear mongering: it is perfectly safe and one of the only effective legal "supplements" when paired with caffeine.
if its so safe why was it banned in some country's? it raises you blood pressure,body temp among other issues(including death in some) it can cause(yeah yeah side effects come with any supplements,meds,etc). its a stimulant why would you pair it with coffee which is another stimulant? are you taking it? to me if someone needs to take these things then they really arent accomplishing anything and would hate to see your health years from now.
Alcohol is banned in a lot of places, cigarettes are far deadlier, why can I buy those? I can also buy T1's (Tylenol with a small amount of codeine) without a prescription but you can't in the US and there are things you can buy in the US that you can't get here. That's not a reason in and of itself to say it's a deadly substance, it's how you use it or abuse it.
It's paired with caffeine because it's known to be more effective at fat mobilization when taken together.
you cant say whether cigarettes are deadlier than ephedrine because there from what I gather are no scientific tests seeing which of the two is worse. cigarettes are long term health risks usually, and taking ephedrine for some people can result in death or bad side effects just taking it once, maybe a few times for some. especially pairing it with caffeine.if you really have to use stimulants to slim down and build muscle then you are in my opinion doing it wrong.but hey if those of you want to ruin your health by doing this,be my guest.
What scientific tests are you referring too? With all the Tabaco related deaths that are known you are telling me ephedra is killing more people? Causing more long term health problems than one of the most dangerous legal products on the market? Please show me this proof because that would be very interesting. The number of deaths even vaguely associated with ephedra was under 100 yet millions die a year to Tabaco related illnesses, hardly in the same league.
Also, you don't use this to build muscle, and if I recall correctly you also confused DNP with a steroid, I really don't think you understand what these products do or the dangerous to be frank.
I did not say there were studies, I said as far as I knew there were NO studies between the 2 to see which one is worse than the other,do you have reading comprehension problems?,I also didnt say that ephedrine is killing more people than tobacco. as for tobacco killing people. never said it didnt. but just because someone dies of say lung cancer does not mean its caused by tobacco. I have had family members die of cancer(lung,and other) and none of it was due to smoking or smoke related. my mom has been smoking over 50 years, no lung cancer or cancer or any kind. she is also an alcoholic and has been drinking heavily over 30 years, no fatty liver,no other health issues. and actually I did look up these products. DNP is a performance enhancer and considered deadly. I know its used to lose fat, actually that is what a deficit is for. there is no need for something so deadly to lose fat,if you cant lose fat and build muscle(which DNP doesnt do) naturally then like I said you are doing it wrong. I did say that tobacco is usually a long term thing that can kill a person(not everyone who smokes dies from cancer),I did say that using ephedrine can kill a person using it just once. again, if you people want to harm your bodies with these performing enhancing drugs that were proven unsafe and banned,be my guest. if you want to smoke and drink,be my guest. a performing enhancement drug is just that, steroids are the same-"PED" There is this too
DNP - (2,4-Dinitrophenol)
ALTERNATIVE STEROID NAMES:1 Hydroxy-2,4-dinitrophenol, Solfo Black, Nitrophen, Aldifen, and Chemox.
Aside from your illogical claims about the deadly nature of the substance without any proof other than media hype you are really mixing things up. There are no studies to compare them because there aren't any studies that prove that ephedra is a dangerous substance as you claim, yet smoking is a Class A carcinogen along with many other known ill side effects, yet you seem to be saying that it's no big deal, yet ephedra is horrible, just wow. Also, look up the number of alcohol and tabco related deaths and illnesses and look up the deaths proven to be related to ephedra. I'm not the one with the comprehension issue here you fail to understand the context of why it was banned and why it is no longer banned in my country. Ephedra was the most widely used diet product at one time yet the number of suspected deaths from it were extremely low, unlike tabco..
A steroid is a chemical structure, not just limited to anabolic steroid (e.g. cortisol is also a steroid but it's catabolic), but now you are just trying to play with the semantics from common meaning to chemical meaning, which you certainly were not using in that context. DNP is not a performance enhancer in any way as an anabolic steroid like Anavar would be. Again, you clearly have no idea what you are talking about here, you see a word you think you understand but have no idea how it really applies to chemistry so ASSUME that it's for building muscle when in fact, it has no anabolic effects.
You seem to really be misrepresenting a lot in that little rant. But hey if you want to smoke and drink and defend it then have at it.
#mancrush3 -
Decided i'm going to half my dosage of creatine to around 2.5g on training days and see what happens.0
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CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »In response to all the Ephedrine fear mongering: it is perfectly safe and one of the only effective legal "supplements" when paired with caffeine.
if its so safe why was it banned in some country's? it raises you blood pressure,body temp among other issues(including death in some) it can cause(yeah yeah side effects come with any supplements,meds,etc). its a stimulant why would you pair it with coffee which is another stimulant? are you taking it? to me if someone needs to take these things then they really arent accomplishing anything and would hate to see your health years from now.
Because there are people that think "hey if 1 tablet works, why not take 8 to lose faster".
I would suggest reading about the EC stack as it is highly researched and proven to work. Myself and many others on here have taken it with great success. It is only illegal in pure form and can ephedrine can be bought over the counter in most countries in the form of decongestants.
so you do take it then? is that also the reason you are way under calories(under 500 some days,under 1000-1500 most and really almost no fat)? because you have no appetite from taking these things? and this is a genuine question,not a stab at you.
I have done but I am not currently taking it. In response to your questions;
- I do not log all of my food/calories as I have a good understanding of my intake
- I am currently running a hybrid RFL diet which if you read up on will answer your comment about fats etc.
Further to this, I am not sure how my comment and what I have tracked in my food diary have any relevance to each other? I would advise that you don't try to bring up irrelevant points to discredit someone as you you will look pedantic and immature.
The fact that you consider DNP a performance enhancer is laughable.1
This discussion has been closed.
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