How do you know when you are doing enough?
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sardelsa
Posts: 9,812 Member
I see this question arise quite often, particularly here in the gaining section. How do you know when you are lifting enough to create adequate muscle building? I know there should be progressive overload over time.. but I find that answer doesn't really satisfy. Is it hitting PRs? Increasing volume? How often should these things be happening? Or is it not something that can really be measured. Things like DOMS, feeling a burn or getting a pump, etc are frequently sought after but rarely are good indicators of muscle building.
I know I work hard. I run a full body program 3-4x per week with a focus on lower body. The way my program is written it is not meant to overload too much or I will be burnt out by the time my next workout day comes around. But sometimes in the back of my head the little (sometimes irrational) voice says "I am still able to walk... did I really go hard enough??"
But this being my second bulk I'd like to think I know what I am doing but for some of the newer bulkers, it is hard to trust the process and know what you are doing is working. I mean, you see measurements go up, your lifts increasing, but fat is going up as well, it is hard to tell.
Would love to hear some of your thoughts!
I know I work hard. I run a full body program 3-4x per week with a focus on lower body. The way my program is written it is not meant to overload too much or I will be burnt out by the time my next workout day comes around. But sometimes in the back of my head the little (sometimes irrational) voice says "I am still able to walk... did I really go hard enough??"
But this being my second bulk I'd like to think I know what I am doing but for some of the newer bulkers, it is hard to trust the process and know what you are doing is working. I mean, you see measurements go up, your lifts increasing, but fat is going up as well, it is hard to tell.
Would love to hear some of your thoughts!
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I have been chatting with a lot of women lifters and they all say that if you are lifting heavier stuff (i.e., getting stronger) from week to week, you are gaining muscle; if you ensure you eat 20% protein and eat about 250 cals over maintenance, you are going to build muscle.
I have been trying to grow muscle now for 5 months and if I had of known how hard it is to actually put on muscle, I never would have been afraid of lifting heavy weights.
ps...today I hip thrusted 200 lbs BOOYA...4 sets baby (of 6, 4, 5, 5)4 -
Strength gain does not equal muscle gain. The only real way is DEXA scans or similar to measure body composition. A bit less reliable but a good indicator is that if your bicep measurement has gone up 0.5" but your waist has remained the same you could safely assume you've gained muscle.8
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I honestly could never tell. I just went by how I felt in the gym. If I left feeling trashed, I'd wait until the next day and hit it again. If I felt great, I'd hit a two-a-day later in the evening. I was running a senseless surplus though (gained 2.5 lbs./week) so I was usually so loaded with energy that I didn't want to leave at all.2
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So first of all it is true that strength gains and muscle gains are not necessarily the same. One component of force production involves the rate at which signals are sent to cause muscles to fire, basically.
However, I would be willing to bet that over the long term, if someone were consuming a reasonable number of calories such that they were slowly adding mass to their body and a reasonable number of grams of protein, and they were continuously seeing improvements in training performance on a program that isn't completely stupid, I would be comfortable making the claim that they are gaining muscle.
As far as the program comments go, it might be possible to have someone do extremely low (weekly) volume training and gain strength without any muscle gains, but I don't think this is likely in many cases since very few people train that way.10 -
I found better gains in strength and muscle growth when I gave myself 2 days of rest between muscle groups. For example mon/Thur: legs and tue/fri: upper. When I was younger I did an every other day rotation so I did each group 3x a week with one day rest in between. I plateaued on strength and even lost weight all the while eating more.2
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So first of all it is true that strength gains and muscle gains are not necessarily the same. One component of force production involves the rate at which signals are sent to cause muscles to fire, basically.
However, I would be willing to bet that over the long term, if someone were consuming a reasonable number of calories such that they were slowly adding mass to their body and a reasonable number of grams of protein, and they were continuously seeing improvements in training performance on a program that isn't completely stupid, I would be comfortable making the claim that they are gaining muscle.
As far as the program comments go, it might be possible to have someone do extremely low (weekly) volume training and gain strength without any muscle gains, but I don't think this is likely in many cases since very few people train that way.
Awesome. Thank you @SideSteel This is pretty much in line with what I have learned and experienced. Good to know you don't have to annihilate the muscles constantly to see progress.I found better gains in strength and muscle growth when I gave myself 2 days of rest between muscle groups. For example mon/Thur: legs and tue/fri: upper. When I was younger I did an every other day rotation so I did each group 3x a week with one day rest in between. I plateaued on strength and even lost weight all the while eating more.
I think this is very common right, and why bodybuilders eventually move from full body to some type of split program.
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Many power lifters follow the same template for a split program. I know Westside Barbell splits their program into a dynamic day and max effort day to build power and strength simultaneously.1
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Pretty good discussion of the question here: http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/am-i-doing-enough/1
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Pretty good discussion of the question here: http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/am-i-doing-enough/
Wow thank you @AnvilHead this is fantastic. He makes some really good points. Good read0 -
Great thread. I'm constantly worried I will just get fat on a bulk because I find gaining muscle so hard! I lift as heavy as I can keeping good form for reps between 8-10 mostly and some drop sets. I'm pretty sure I'm working as hard as I can safely without a spotter, I couldn't go heavier without upsetting my form anyway and i try to increase the weight or reps each week....its food I find difficult. I hate eating in the morning but have been trying to force it down and time is pretty lacking so I'm not always able to sit and eat but have been trying to use shakes to keep up the calories. In the past I would bail on a bulk when I thought I was getting fat but I'm pretty sure if id have stuck it out then, id be alot bigger now...ive got to keep my head focused or I freak out!1
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If you are gaining weight and getting stronger weekly, more than likely your are gaining muscle.
If you work the sh1t out of a program with sufficient volume while eating enough food & recovering with proper rest you are the safe side to gain muscle.2 -
I've often wondered thr same thing before. If you're doing everything that you're "supposed" to be doing to gain muscle, then you probably are if you feel stronger in the gym and your performance is higher then your expectations originally were. It's hard to tell though when we look at ourselves in the mirror everyday. Acquaintances will tell you that you're looking leaner, or more muscular sometimes (at least with my experience in the past 7 months of lifting).1
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hansonmedical2 wrote: »I've often wondered thr same thing before. If you're doing everything that you're "supposed" to be doing to gain muscle, then you probably are if you feel stronger in the gym and your performance is higher then your expectations originally were. It's hard to tell though when we look at ourselves in the mirror everyday. Acquaintances will tell you that you're looking leaner, or more muscular sometimes (at least with my experience in the past 7 months of lifting).
That's why it's useful to take progress pics. Muscle gain is a very slow, gradual process and because we see ourselves in the mirror everyday, we often don't notice the progress. Make the photos as identical as possible (clothing, lighting, positioning, etc.). If you look at a picture from today and a picture from six months ago, you should see a significant change in the direction of your intended goal. If you don't, you're doing something wrong.
Ideally (whether bulking or cutting):
- Track your weight (use a trend app such as Happy Scale (iOS), Libra (Android) or Trendweight (web)).
- Take periodic body measurements (i.e., neck, chest, biceps, forearms, wrist, waist, hips, thighs, calves).
- Take progress pics.
- Periodically check your bodyfat (using the most accurate method possible given your resources).
- Log your workouts so you can monitor progress in weight/reps.1 -
hansonmedical2 wrote: »I've often wondered thr same thing before. If you're doing everything that you're "supposed" to be doing to gain muscle, then you probably are if you feel stronger in the gym and your performance is higher then your expectations originally were. It's hard to tell though when we look at ourselves in the mirror everyday. Acquaintances will tell you that you're looking leaner, or more muscular sometimes (at least with my experience in the past 7 months of lifting).
That's why it's useful to take progress pics. Muscle gain is a very slow, gradual process and because we see ourselves in the mirror everyday, we often don't notice the progress. Make the photos as identical as possible (clothing, lighting, positioning, etc.). If you look at a picture from today and a picture from six months ago, you should see a significant change in the direction of your intended goal. If you don't, you're doing something wrong.
Ideally (whether bulking or cutting):
- Track your weight (use a trend app such as Happy Scale (iOS), Libra (Android) or Trendweight (web)).
- Take periodic body measurements (i.e., neck, chest, biceps, forearms, wrist, waist, hips, thighs, calves).
- Take progress pics.
- Periodically check your bodyfat (using the most accurate method possible given your resources).
- Log your workouts so you can monitor progress in weight/reps.
I would also add, if you are getting stronger and liking how your body is developing, does it really matter if you are gaining a little muscle or not?3 -
hansonmedical2 wrote: »I've often wondered thr same thing before. If you're doing everything that you're "supposed" to be doing to gain muscle, then you probably are if you feel stronger in the gym and your performance is higher then your expectations originally were. It's hard to tell though when we look at ourselves in the mirror everyday. Acquaintances will tell you that you're looking leaner, or more muscular sometimes (at least with my experience in the past 7 months of lifting).
That's why it's useful to take progress pics. Muscle gain is a very slow, gradual process and because we see ourselves in the mirror everyday, we often don't notice the progress. Make the photos as identical as possible (clothing, lighting, positioning, etc.). If you look at a picture from today and a picture from six months ago, you should see a significant change in the direction of your intended goal. If you don't, you're doing something wrong.
Ideally (whether bulking or cutting):
- Track your weight (use a trend app such as Happy Scale (iOS), Libra (Android) or Trendweight (web)).
- Take periodic body measurements (i.e., neck, chest, biceps, forearms, wrist, waist, hips, thighs, calves).
- Take progress pics.
- Periodically check your bodyfat (using the most accurate method possible given your resources).
- Log your workouts so you can monitor progress in weight/reps.
I would also add, if you are getting stronger and liking how your body is developing, does it really matter if you are gaining a little muscle or not?
True. But when you are bulking how your body is looking can change due to fat gains, that is why it can be hard to gauge using the mirror alone and then sometimes you doubt the process altogether.
I remember after my first bulk, oh man, I hated how fluffy I looked, and often wondered if there was really any muscle under there (surprise, there was).2 -
sardelsa wrote:psuLemon wrote:I would also add, if you are getting stronger and liking how your body is developing, does it really matter if you are gaining a little muscle or not?
True. But when you are bulking how your body is looking can change due to fat gains, that is why it can be hard to gauge using the mirror alone and then sometimes you doubt the process altogether.
Yup. I think it does matter more for the women because it's generally harder for us. If a guy simply eats and lifts he's pretty much guaranteed to see some result. For me...I'm looking at this is a quest of sorts just to see if I can manage to walk away with something. Anything! LOL! And it is hard when you have the fat layer going on and have no freakin clue what's going on underneath it.... It's a leap of faith...this bulking thing.
At the end of the day, looking good is what it's all about though, so psuLemon does make a good point.
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hansonmedical2 wrote: »I've often wondered thr same thing before. If you're doing everything that you're "supposed" to be doing to gain muscle, then you probably are if you feel stronger in the gym and your performance is higher then your expectations originally were. It's hard to tell though when we look at ourselves in the mirror everyday. Acquaintances will tell you that you're looking leaner, or more muscular sometimes (at least with my experience in the past 7 months of lifting).
That's why it's useful to take progress pics. Muscle gain is a very slow, gradual process and because we see ourselves in the mirror everyday, we often don't notice the progress. Make the photos as identical as possible (clothing, lighting, positioning, etc.). If you look at a picture from today and a picture from six months ago, you should see a significant change in the direction of your intended goal. If you don't, you're doing something wrong.
Ideally (whether bulking or cutting):
- Track your weight (use a trend app such as Happy Scale (iOS), Libra (Android) or Trendweight (web)).
- Take periodic body measurements (i.e., neck, chest, biceps, forearms, wrist, waist, hips, thighs, calves).
- Take progress pics.
- Periodically check your bodyfat (using the most accurate method possible given your resources).
- Log your workouts so you can monitor progress in weight/reps.
I would also add, if you are getting stronger and liking how your body is developing, does it really matter if you are gaining a little muscle or not?
True. But when you are bulking how your body is looking can change due to fat gains, that is why it can be hard to gauge using the mirror alone and then sometimes you doubt the process altogether.
I remember after my first bulk, oh man, I hated how fluffy I looked, and often wondered if there was really any muscle under there (surprise, there was).
It's definitely a valid point. Bulking is more about trusting the process and dealing with the mental battles.1 -
not how you feel...it's how you look ... haha1
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