Basic squat help needed

JulieSHelms

Everybody talks about doing squats so I feel pretty stupid that I can't seem to manage doing one. Yep, just one good one. I've watched tons of Youtube videos. I had the trainer at my gym show me--he had me do them with the bar on the smith machine and I could manage that but they are difficult. But bodyweight squats I just cannot get my thigh crease at or below my knee.

I don't think it is a strength problem--I've been working hard on various other exercises focusing on hams and glutes--I should surely have the strength to do 5 or 10 of these. I'm starting to suspect it's a flexibility issue. Does this sound plausible? One video I saw recommended improving flexibility by getting in an ATG squat position and staying there for ten minutes everyday. I did try it but even then I have to hold onto something as I can't maintain my balance--my body wants to fall over backwards.

My second issue, maybe or maybe not related to the first issue, is my posture going down. I feel like I am folding too far forward at the waist, compared to others I see doing it. I do keep my eyes forward and am trying very hard to keep my chest lifted. If I don't bend so far forward, again my center of gravity feels like I will fall backward.

When I do them on the smith machine, my back is much more upright but the bar is also taking the weight that would be flipping me back if it weren't there.

I have no idea if this is part of it but physically I have a relatively long back. I found out about ten years ago when I had disc surgery that I have an extra vertebrae. I don't think it's that uncommon, but I just throw that out there anyway for what it's worth.

Any thoughts on whether this is a strength or flexibility issue, and how I should go about working on it would be greatly appreciated!

SonyaCele

dont do them on the smith machine, ever. Try doing them using a TRX to help assist with flexibility and strength and balance. What you describe sounds like both strength and flex issues. if you do the atg squat , you dont have to do it for ten minutes. USe the trx and jsut go atg for 10 seconds or so, and move around , work your hips , get everything limbered up. repeat that a few times as part of your warmup.

Thehardmakesitworthit

It sounds like 3 things to me, balance which is a core strength issue , flex and strength. I have had great improvement into hip flexibility with "the duck sitting" lol. I do it at traffic lights when I'm out walking,... I do it several times a day at the office and at home. Key for me is pointing my knees way out... it could be that you are not getting the depth because ur not finding your body's natural position. Your squat is going to look much diff than the next guy. Do some reading with strong curves. I bought their butt book and it has been amazing.

JulieSHelms

GuitarJerry wrote: »

Can you hold onto a pole, or anything stationary that you can hold, and then go all the way down holding on? If so, you might have a flexibility issue. The reason is when you hold on, you pull back, which allows your hips to get down into position. But with weight on your back, and not having the flexibility, you lean forward, therefore restricting your ability to sink down. The fix is 1) Lots of various stretching and 2) goblet squats. Look up goblet squats. But, it will help you using light weight, get down into position. Slowly increase the weight over time, and when you finally get back to the bar, you'll feel the proper movement to get ATG.

I haven't tried holding on, but leaning back on the smith machine bar, I was able to do them to parallel (but not atg). I was able to do about 20 before fatiguing. That does make sense that leaning forward is restricting my depth.

@SonyaCele I do have access to a TRX and that looks like it would be a good thing to try. Why is the smith machine so evil? Because of the fixed movement? I won't cry not using it again because the bar is hard on the neck verts, probably because I'm leaning into it so hard.

Off to Youtube TRX squats and goblet squats. Thanks!

SonyaCele

the smith machine : yes, the fixed bar path takes away all the important elements of the squat, like the instability. Also the fixed path doesn't let you develop your own squat form

comptonelizabeth

I struggle to get low enough too - all the YouTube videos talk about getting your thighs parallel with the floor and my body just wouldn't do it -until I tried goblet squats! It seemed to fall into place then and although I can't do as many (yet!) I can feel they are working.

firef1y72

When I started going to the gym in January the trainer had me trying wall squats, didn't like them much and could barely bend my knees to start squatting anyway, so I started just trying bodyweight. To start with I probably dropped my bum a couple of inches max, but I persisted and tried holding the lowest position for a few seconds on my last rep. Around six months later, with some playing around with different foot positions I found the most natural stance for me (feet slightly wider than hips) and finally managed parallel and then ATG. We're all different and I know tend to lean forward a little more than some people as I go down, but I do keep my back straight. Once I'd mastered bodyweight (and dumbell) squats in that wider stance I worked on different foot positions and incorporated Sumo and narrow stance squats. But it really was a case of practise, practise, practise, turns out I've got a pretty good body for squats, being short and hypermobile (very flexible joints), all I needed was to learn to balance and stabilise (along with dropping some weight).

I do find the movement slightly different with a barbel though, I go for high bar as it works best with the way my body moves and my range of movement (thinking of trying to add some front squats soon though), and I do find I am slightly more upright with the bar on my back.

BrianKMcFalls

Goblet squats really seem to help just about everyone who has this issue. The weight in front seems to both stabilize and get the knees flared out properly.

Pathman1

I posted a thread on here about the same thing a couple months ago. Basically, it took me over a month of stretching after a really good warmup to be able to get into a good squat. The stretches that worked the best for my hip and ankle flexibility was squatting with my back against the wall, and squatting holding onto a pole. Both of these stretches I do without any weights, then I go and do squats with just an olympic bar, then I add my weights to the bar. It's a bit of a process but gets the job done.

SideSteel

It could be mobility or strength but it could also be balance and in many people balance is a huge component.

Balance is not necessarily a core strength issue as it's largely proprioceptive.

I would check out Bret Contreras' youtube video on how to do a Goblet Squat. The load being placed in front will help to counter-balance the hips going backwards and because of this, for many people a goblet squat is actually easier than a bodyweight squat provided you have the necessary strength to add a light load to the squat. I would start with something easy like 10lbs or so.


Other things you can consider would be to squat to a box so that the box serves as a depth gauge but ALSO as something to catch you if you feel you are going to lose your balance.

Finally, one thing you can do to rule out mobility would be to get on all-fours with your feet flat up against a wall in approximate squatting stance width and push your butt backwards towards the wall and see if you can get the hips below the knee in that position. If you can do this without any pain it demonstrates that your joints are capable of executing the ROM required to reach proper squatting depth which then indicates that the issue is likely strength or balance.

If you'd like, you can post a video to my group here for feedback:
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/911984/form-critique-thread-post-your-videos-here#latest

JulieSHelms

Update: I had the trainer show me today how to do squats with the TRX and with a kettlebell (I think that's equivalent to the goblet squats?). It made all the difference in the world. After he watched me, he thought my problem was balance and not so much strength or flexibility. With the TRX I was going atg (and he emphasized I wasn't to use the straps to pull myself up, just for balance), and with the kettlebell I was comfortably to just past parallel. After about 10 each of those, he had me do a bodyweight squat. I did one successfully then, but balance is still unstable.

@SideSteel it's interesting that you brought up propioception. I didn't mention this before but in the last year I have lost 100 lbs (5'8", SW 300, CW 199.8) and I wondered if part of my problem was just being familiar with my new size--it's been 30 years since I've been down to this weight. Reminds me of puberty when I grew 8" one year and suddenly I couldn't do any of the gymnastics I had been doing for years--like I had no idea how to control my new dimensions. Thank you for the invite for posting a video--I didn't know that kind of help was available!

Thanks to all for your testimonies and advice--it has made all the difference and I feel like I can now move on from here!

ETA: oh, and no more smith machine--that was like torture compared to these options!

lorrpb

Try doing wall squats with a stability ball behind you. This helps you keep your posture. When body weight is successful, add weight by holding a dumbbell in each hand and keep increasing the weight.

Cherimoose

Tipping backwards is common with newbies, especially those with long legs. The shin muscles help prevent tipping back, and eventually they will get stronger. In the mean time, taking a wide stance should help with stability.
Once you get the hang of goblets, a good next progression is to hold 1 or 2 dumbbells down between your legs, like this:



By the way, the stability ball squat mentioned above is fine for those who can't do other squats, but otherwise i'm not a fan of it because the position changes the muscle emphasis, plus the ball acts as a crutch, so the exercise isn't as functional as other squats.

SonyaCele

JulieSHelms wrote: »

Update: I had the trainer show me today how to do squats with the TRX and with a kettlebell (I think that's equivalent to the goblet squats?). It made all the difference in the world. After he watched me, he thought my problem was balance and not so much strength or flexibility. With the TRX I was going atg (and he emphasized I wasn't to use the straps to pull myself up, just for balance), and with the kettlebell I was comfortably to just past parallel. After about 10 each of those, he had me do a bodyweight squat. I did one successfully then, but balance is still unstable.

its ok to use the TRX to slightly assist and pull yourself up if you need to, to preserve your form while you build strength. The more you do these squats, the stronger you get and the less you'll need to assist. Be sure to keep your glutes super tight through the whole movement. Use them to power your lift. The trx will allow you to really feel it and work those muscles, without being overwhelmed by not having the strength to keep your form.

canadianlbs

JulieSHelms wrote: »

After he watched me, he thought my problem was balance and not so much strength or flexibility.

at home i do this in front of the sink if i'm feeling too stiff to trust myself. or counter, but for some reason sink. hands on the edges, not holding on, just for reference. you can't fall too far forward that way, and i have a problem knowing where my knees are so the cabinet underneath makes for a good position check too.

eta. i think my neighbours consider me strange