Calories in/out verses clean eating
naturallykinky
Posts: 25 Member
I would like to have a tone body getting rid of excess fat and cellulite. (Currently at 182 @ 5'7) Members at my gym suggest eating more cleaner. I would like to know if anyone has seen these type of results with just counting calories. Thanks in advance.
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Replies
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Counting calories trumps clean eating whatever that means.6
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'Clean' eating is a subjective term that can mean anything. In terms of weight loss the only thing that matters is CICO.
eta: I lost 50lbs of fat, just by focusing on my calorie intake. I also improved all my health markers, which was my only goal going into this whole thing
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Eating fewer calories than you burn is a must to losing weight. "Clean" eating is arbitrary and ten people can give you ten different definitions of it.8
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If cleaner eating suits your food preferences, have at it, but it won't make you lose weight in and of itself. You have to eat at a calorie deficit to lose weight.
Also? Cellulite is genetic. Losing weight will diminish its appearance, but... sorry. You're stuck with it. I have it, it sucks, but most women have it to some extent.6 -
Whether you're eating "clean" or not, it still comes down to energy balance...you can eat very healthfully and still over consume. That said, it's more difficult to over eat when your diet consists largely of whole foods.
Beyond that, "clean" is pretty subjective. I would describe my diet as largely "clean" in that I eat primarily whole foods and meals prepared from scratch, whole ingredients or minimally processed foods...others would not as perhaps they don't find meat, poultry, or fish to be clean...or higher fat cuts to be clean...or on the other end of the spectrum, I eat higher carb which some people wouldn't consider "clean"...I don't worry so much about organic or non-gmo so there are many who wouldn't consider my diet "clean"...
Also, CICO is just the mathematical equation...it is applicable to any and all diets...it's just the math.
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They aren't "vs." CI/CO is how you lose, gain, or maintain weight, depending on how you tip the balance. Clean eating, or any way of eating, is a personal preference which may or may not help you tip the balance to get the result you want.4
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I started my weight loss journey by eating only a staple of foods that were deemed clean. The items were listed by meal timing (breakfast, snack, lunch etc.) and by macro (whether they were mostly protein, carb etc). I had tremendous success doing this. I did not eat (even once) fast food, potato chips, sugary treats, donuts, bacon etc.
It wasn't easy but I got used to it.
After discovering MFP, I quickly read that it wasn't the foods that I was eating, it just that by following a 'program of eating' I simply was eating less calories.
I was ready to change things up so I started adding other things that weren't approved (and definitely not 'clean' by most people standards), nothing changed.
My advice now would be, eat whatever you want if you want to lose weight. Worry about calories. A strict eating clean regiment is tough to adhere to, life is too short. I eat most of my calories following what would be considered 'clean', but everyday I throw in something that I just like or think I deserve!
There may be reasons you would like to try eating clean, or if you really want that 'extra' edge, for a competition or some health concern, have at it.
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as others have said it's about how much you eat not what you eat.
Keep in mind if you eat whole more healthy foods you can eat more of it to fill the calories vs other foods that are high calorie you get to eat less of them.
For example if at lunch you ate an oh henry bar and a bag of chips and a coke that is about 500 calories and not very filling vs a grilled chicken burger and a side salad from Macdonalds...more filling...and it's about 400 calories so you could add in a greek yogurt too for the 500 calories...bet you would be stuffed full.3 -
I highly advise not eating dirty food.
Wash all your meals thoroughly before ingesting.6 -
naturallykinky wrote: »I would like to have a tone body getting rid of excess fat and cellulite. (Currently at 182 @ 5'7) Members at my gym suggest eating more cleaner. I would like to know if anyone has seen these type of results with just counting calories. Thanks in advance.
Yes, you can lose and maintain muscle (which is what tone means when you are losing) just counting calories. Eat enough protein to maximize muscle retention (as you are already working out, it seems). .8g/lb of goal weight is plenty. Also, you'd want a moderate deficit, probably no more than 20% of TDEE or 500 calories (about a lb per week). Some would recommend even lower.
Now, if you want to "eat clean" whatever that means to you, you can do that AND count calories, but calories still matter. I focus on eating a healthy diet which makes more sense to me that the "clean eating" buzzword, and when trying to lose still count calories.3 -
I just count calories. I've lost 68 pounds. I eat processed foods and fast foods. I also eat lots of protein and fruits and veggies. I basically eat what I like. I just don't eat unlimited quantities like I did before. You can eat clean and still be overweight. And if you ask 10 people what the definition of clean eating is, you will get 10 definitions.7
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I gained weight when I was "clean eating" obviously I was in a surplus, but I was told by countless blogs that I could eat as much as I wanted as long as I ate clean.
I lost all my weight while eating pizza, pasta, cookies and French fries, in moderation.8 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »If cleaner eating suits your food preferences, have at it, but it won't make you lose weight in and of itself. You have to eat at a calorie deficit to lose weight.
Also? Cellulite is genetic. Losing weight will diminish its appearance, but... sorry. You're stuck with it. I have it, it sucks, but most women have it to some extent.
Truth. At 5'6" and 120 lbs I still had cellulite.
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queenliz99 wrote: »Counting calories trumps clean eating whatever that means.
I disagree. With the "counting calories trumps" part any way. I don't particularly understand the meaning of clean eating either because it's such a vague concept.
But I disagree that counting calories trumps a nutritious and nourishing lifestyle. You can absolutely be under your calorie goals but eat like crap, doesn't mean one poop that you are "healthy."
EDIT: I'm not at all saying that eating "unhealthy" foods in moderation is a bad thing--I do it--and moderation is absolutely healthy. But CICO is super short sighted when some people use that to starve themselves. How many posts do I see here from people who can't seem to eat 1200 calories in a day?1 -
queenliz99 wrote: »Counting calories trumps clean eating whatever that means.
I disagree. With the "counting calories trumps" part any way. I don't particularly understand the meaning of clean eating either because it's such a vague concept.
But I disagree that counting calories trumps a nutritious and nourishing lifestyle. You can absolutely be under your calorie goals but eat like crap, doesn't mean one poop that you are "healthy."
The OP shares her goals above -- that's key to understanding what people mean when they say that counting calories trumps "clean eating" for her goals. And nobody is recommending that she "eat like crap." Not being a "clean eater" (whatever that means) doesn't mean that one isn't meeting one's nutritional goals.5 -
queenliz99 wrote: »Counting calories trumps clean eating whatever that means.
I disagree. With the "counting calories trumps" part any way. I don't particularly understand the meaning of clean eating either because it's such a vague concept.
But I disagree that counting calories trumps a nutritious and nourishing lifestyle. You can absolutely be under your calorie goals but eat like crap, doesn't mean one poop that you are "healthy."
The point she, and the rest of us, have been making is that clean eating means nothing for weight loss if you aren't in a calorie deficit. Yes, you can lose weight eating nothing but pizza, cookies, and soda, but nobody does that. Nutrition is still valued, but without making sure your calories in are less than your calories out it's still easy to gain weight eating clean.3 -
janejellyroll wrote: »
The OP shares her goals above -- that's key to understanding what people mean when they say that counting calories trumps "clean eating" for her goals. And nobody is recommending that she "eat like crap." Not being a "clean eater" (whatever that means) doesn't mean that one isn't meeting one's nutritional goals.
The point she, and the rest of us, have been making is that clean eating means nothing for weight loss if you aren't in a calorie deficit. Yes, you can lose weight eating nothing but pizza, cookies, and soda, but nobody does that. Nutrition is still valued, but without making sure your calories in are less than your calories out it's still easy to gain weight eating clean.
For sure, points taken. I wouldn't say "nobody does that" because *raises hand* I did at one point because I thought CICO was all that mattered and I beat myself up because I was essentially starving myself with no real nourishment. I see that all around me working with teenage girls all the time. It happens, despite this lovely bubble of health and reason the MFP forums are.
I don't like the phrase "clean eating" either, and maybe I missed the OP's description of what "clean eating" meant to her, or misunderstood her initial post in general. I wasn't trying to make any assumptions or aggressive points, just trying to point out the nuances of CICO because we don't all start from the same place.1 -
janejellyroll wrote: »
The OP shares her goals above -- that's key to understanding what people mean when they say that counting calories trumps "clean eating" for her goals. And nobody is recommending that she "eat like crap." Not being a "clean eater" (whatever that means) doesn't mean that one isn't meeting one's nutritional goals.
The point she, and the rest of us, have been making is that clean eating means nothing for weight loss if you aren't in a calorie deficit. Yes, you can lose weight eating nothing but pizza, cookies, and soda, but nobody does that. Nutrition is still valued, but without making sure your calories in are less than your calories out it's still easy to gain weight eating clean.
For sure, points taken. I wouldn't say "nobody does that" because *raises hand* I did at one point because I thought CICO was all that mattered and I beat myself up because I was essentially starving myself with no real nourishment. I see that all around me working with teenage girls all the time. It happens, despite this lovely bubble of health and reason the MFP forums are.
I don't like the phrase "clean eating" either, and maybe I missed the OP's description of what "clean eating" meant to her, or misunderstood her initial post in general. I wasn't trying to make any assumptions or aggressive points, just trying to point out the nuances of CICO because we don't all start from the same place.
People can do almost anything, but nobody *here* recommends living exclusively on pizza, cookies, and soda and I've never met a single person who only ate those three foods without ever eating anything else (well, I guess I have now that I've met you) and I have never seen it recommended anywhere else. I'm glad you realized that meeting your nutritional needs is going to require eating more than those three things. I think it's a bit of a dead end though, because absolutely nothing in the OP indicates that she is interested in restricting her diet to those three items.
OP wants to know if she can meet her goals through calorie counting. The answer is yes, despite any restrictions that you may have practiced in the past. Meeting your nutritional needs *is* important, but "clean eating" isn't about that. Clean eating is about practicing additional restrictions above and beyond meeting one's needs.4 -
janejellyroll wrote: »
People can do almost anything, but nobody *here* recommends living exclusively on pizza, cookies, and soda and I've never met a single person who only ate those three foods without ever eating anything else (well, I guess I have now that I've met you) and I have never seen it recommended anywhere else. I'm glad you realized that meeting your nutritional needs is going to require eating more than those three things. I think it's a bit of a dead end though, because absolutely nothing in the OP indicates that she is interested in restricting her diet to those three items.
OP wants to know if she can meet her goals through calorie counting. The answer is yes, despite any restrictions that you may have practiced in the past. Meeting your nutritional needs *is* important, but "clean eating" isn't about that. Clean eating is about practicing additional restrictions above and beyond meeting one's needs.
I wasn't saying just those three things, and I don't know if your definition of "clean eating" is the right one for everyone because there isn't really a right one, hence the "whatever that means." Still a worthwhile discussion. I acknowledged that I probably misunderstood the OP, we don't have to be snarky anymore 1 -
janejellyroll wrote: »
People can do almost anything, but nobody *here* recommends living exclusively on pizza, cookies, and soda and I've never met a single person who only ate those three foods without ever eating anything else (well, I guess I have now that I've met you) and I have never seen it recommended anywhere else. I'm glad you realized that meeting your nutritional needs is going to require eating more than those three things. I think it's a bit of a dead end though, because absolutely nothing in the OP indicates that she is interested in restricting her diet to those three items.
OP wants to know if she can meet her goals through calorie counting. The answer is yes, despite any restrictions that you may have practiced in the past. Meeting your nutritional needs *is* important, but "clean eating" isn't about that. Clean eating is about practicing additional restrictions above and beyond meeting one's needs.
I wasn't saying just those three things, and I don't know if your definition of "clean eating" is the right one for everyone because there isn't really a right one, hence the "whatever that means." Still a worthwhile discussion. I acknowledged that I probably misunderstood the OP, we don't have to be snarky anymore
When you responded to @malibu927 writing "nobody does that" with "I did that," I thought you meant what you wrote. I wasn't trying to be snarky, I was responding to what you wrote and assuming it was a reflection of what you meant.
If you meant that you *didn't* do that, then I think we can go back to the original "Nobody does that."
Again, not trying to be snarky -- I'm trying to respond to what you're writing and if you mean something other than that, I won't know until you clarify.1 -
janejellyroll wrote: »
The OP shares her goals above -- that's key to understanding what people mean when they say that counting calories trumps "clean eating" for her goals. And nobody is recommending that she "eat like crap." Not being a "clean eater" (whatever that means) doesn't mean that one isn't meeting one's nutritional goals.
The point she, and the rest of us, have been making is that clean eating means nothing for weight loss if you aren't in a calorie deficit. Yes, you can lose weight eating nothing but pizza, cookies, and soda, but nobody does that. Nutrition is still valued, but without making sure your calories in are less than your calories out it's still easy to gain weight eating clean.
For sure, points taken. I wouldn't say "nobody does that" because *raises hand* I did at one point because I thought CICO was all that mattered and I beat myself up because I was essentially starving myself with no real nourishment. I see that all around me working with teenage girls all the time. It happens, despite this lovely bubble of health and reason the MFP forums are.
Hmm. I would say that no one chooses to eat a poor diet because they understand that calories are what matter for weight loss. They choose to eat a poor diet because, for whatever reason, those are the foods they want to eat, and maybe they ALSO focus on weight loss. And, if so, it's still true that being obese is really bad for your health and that it's probably healthier to eat a mediocre diet and be a normal weight than to eat really "healthy" foods and be obese. (I recommend eating a good diet AND being a healthy weight, of course, as does everyone here.)
As for undereating, again, that's not BECAUSE they know about CICO or are eating a poor diet, it's separate. Just as many people are in a rush to lose and undereat regardless of diet and many of them are (or think they are) eating quite healthfully. Look at all the teens (or recent teens) who think "eating only fruits and vegetables" or "doing a juice cleanse" = healthy eating.I don't like the phrase "clean eating" either, and maybe I missed the OP's description of what "clean eating" meant to her, or misunderstood her initial post in general. I wasn't trying to make any assumptions or aggressive points, just trying to point out the nuances of CICO because we don't all start from the same place.
I think calories are what matter for weight loss, but of course it's best to eat a good diet, for nutrition. I'd never assume someone doesn't know that (I am actually sure everyone does know they should eat a nutritious diet, although some still don't want to), and when someone talks about "clean eating" I usually think they mean something else, that typically doesn't even have any real connection with nutrition.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »
People can do almost anything, but nobody *here* recommends living exclusively on pizza, cookies, and soda and I've never met a single person who only ate those three foods without ever eating anything else (well, I guess I have now that I've met you) and I have never seen it recommended anywhere else. I'm glad you realized that meeting your nutritional needs is going to require eating more than those three things. I think it's a bit of a dead end though, because absolutely nothing in the OP indicates that she is interested in restricting her diet to those three items.
OP wants to know if she can meet her goals through calorie counting. The answer is yes, despite any restrictions that you may have practiced in the past. Meeting your nutritional needs *is* important, but "clean eating" isn't about that. Clean eating is about practicing additional restrictions above and beyond meeting one's needs.
I wasn't saying just those three things, and I don't know if your definition of "clean eating" is the right one for everyone because there isn't really a right one, hence the "whatever that means." Still a worthwhile discussion. I acknowledged that I probably misunderstood the OP, we don't have to be snarky anymore
When you responded to @malibu927 writing "nobody does that" with "I did that," I thought you meant what you wrote. I wasn't trying to be snarky, I was responding to what you wrote and assuming it was a reflection of what you meant.
If you meant that you *didn't* do that, then I think we can go back to the original "Nobody does that."
Again, not trying to be snarky -- I'm trying to respond to what you're writing and if you mean something other than that, I won't know until you clarify.
Those were just examples...not every eating disorder is rice cakes and cucumbers and not every example is the full picture. I didn't have a well balanced diet for how many calories I was eating and it didn't serve me, and I know I'm not alone. Obviously, this isn't everyone and you don't have to have a perfect, flawless diet to be healthy. And maybe it's my own personal history that finds the general CICO to be uncomfortably simple (even if to others it is much more nuanced), even though I agree with it as a basic principle. I apologize if I wasn't being very clear, because I really do think we're on the same page. It's possible I was speaking for myself too much rather than actually interpreting the OP's post, for which I apologize.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »
People can do almost anything, but nobody *here* recommends living exclusively on pizza, cookies, and soda and I've never met a single person who only ate those three foods without ever eating anything else (well, I guess I have now that I've met you) and I have never seen it recommended anywhere else. I'm glad you realized that meeting your nutritional needs is going to require eating more than those three things. I think it's a bit of a dead end though, because absolutely nothing in the OP indicates that she is interested in restricting her diet to those three items.
OP wants to know if she can meet her goals through calorie counting. The answer is yes, despite any restrictions that you may have practiced in the past. Meeting your nutritional needs *is* important, but "clean eating" isn't about that. Clean eating is about practicing additional restrictions above and beyond meeting one's needs.
I wasn't saying just those three things, and I don't know if your definition of "clean eating" is the right one for everyone because there isn't really a right one, hence the "whatever that means." Still a worthwhile discussion. I acknowledged that I probably misunderstood the OP, we don't have to be snarky anymore
When you responded to @malibu927 writing "nobody does that" with "I did that," I thought you meant what you wrote. I wasn't trying to be snarky, I was responding to what you wrote and assuming it was a reflection of what you meant.
If you meant that you *didn't* do that, then I think we can go back to the original "Nobody does that."
Again, not trying to be snarky -- I'm trying to respond to what you're writing and if you mean something other than that, I won't know until you clarify.
Those were just examples...not every eating disorder is rice cakes and cucumbers and not every example is the full picture. I didn't have a well balanced diet for how many calories I was eating and it didn't serve me, and I know I'm not alone. Obviously, this isn't everyone and you don't have to have a perfect, flawless diet to be healthy. And maybe it's my own personal history that finds the general CICO to be uncomfortably simple (even if to others it is much more nuanced), even though I agree with it as a basic principle. I apologize if I wasn't being very clear, because I really do think we're on the same page. It's possible I was speaking for myself too much rather than actually interpreting the OP's post, for which I apologize.
I completely agree that EDs can take many different forms. I don't see anything in OP's post to indicate that is what is at play here.
Keep in mind that the choices aren't "clean eating" or "ignore my nutritional needs." It's completely possible to meet one's needs while ignoring the concept of "clean eating" and with the information we currently have available, I'm thinking that is what OP is asking about. Can you meet your weight and fitness goals without "clean eating"? That's the question in the OP and the answer is yes.
For people with a history of malnutrition or a history of ED, the answer may be more complex. But bringing that framework to every post that is simply asking about "clean eating" seems unnecessary to me (not that I am the authority of what belongs in every post, it's just my opinion).1 -
If someone has an ED and eats too few calories, I hardly think it's because they don't understand that nutrition is important or assume that CICO is all that matters for health (which no one has said). And I'd guess that "clean eating" is something that some with EDs use to justify their restrictions (which is not the fault of clean eating and doesn't mean that everyone who "clean eats" will do that -- again, "clean eating" doesn't even really mean anything, as I think we are agreed on).2
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OP...
Clean Eating Vs Calories in & Calories out…
Cleaning eating would usually give the individual the correct amount of proteins to aid in recovery. The correct amount of carbs will fuel the work out and allow for a recovery afterwards. Fats are required and therefore will make up the diet too.
As an example, I’m currently cutting and eating around 1g protein per lbs of body weight, I’m relatively low on carbs, but eat them around my workout & then my fats make up the rest of my macros. Please note that timing is also important.
If I was low on proteins, I wouldn’t recover as I do; likewise with carbs, I may not be able to fuel my work out or recover in the way that I do.
Calories in vs calories out will help you lose weight, but if you’re serious about weight loss (fat loss) and want to get the best results possible, ‘clean eating’ would be beneficial.
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OP - It's not one or the other (or VS) you can do both, in combination. To lose weight, you must be in a deficit -- no matter what you eat.3
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naturallykinky wrote: »I would like to have a tone body getting rid of excess fat and cellulite. (Currently at 182 @ 5'7) Members at my gym suggest eating more cleaner. I would like to know if anyone has seen these type of results with just counting calories. Thanks in advance.
What you seem to be describing is more aesthetics based. Are you in a progressive resistance program? If not I strongly recommend one. There are several programs tailored to women and the results are amazing.
There is no scientific evidence proving that "clean eating" produces any more results as the concept is undefined and completely relative to the individual. For weight loss/maintenance/gain - CICO is the end all be all.
What matters is that you form a routine and stick to it.3 -
Yes, I don't think that was at all what was in the heart of OP's post, I've said a couple times that I probably responded in the wrong way for the context as well as apologized. We all have emotional reactions in ways that aren't right sometimes, and it was probably my pre-coffee delicate state that caused my hasty response.janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »
People can do almost anything, but nobody *here* recommends living exclusively on pizza, cookies, and soda and I've never met a single person who only ate those three foods without ever eating anything else (well, I guess I have now that I've met you) and I have never seen it recommended anywhere else. I'm glad you realized that meeting your nutritional needs is going to require eating more than those three things. I think it's a bit of a dead end though, because absolutely nothing in the OP indicates that she is interested in restricting her diet to those three items.
OP wants to know if she can meet her goals through calorie counting. The answer is yes, despite any restrictions that you may have practiced in the past. Meeting your nutritional needs *is* important, but "clean eating" isn't about that. Clean eating is about practicing additional restrictions above and beyond meeting one's needs.
I wasn't saying just those three things, and I don't know if your definition of "clean eating" is the right one for everyone because there isn't really a right one, hence the "whatever that means." Still a worthwhile discussion. I acknowledged that I probably misunderstood the OP, we don't have to be snarky anymore
When you responded to @malibu927 writing "nobody does that" with "I did that," I thought you meant what you wrote. I wasn't trying to be snarky, I was responding to what you wrote and assuming it was a reflection of what you meant.
If you meant that you *didn't* do that, then I think we can go back to the original "Nobody does that."
Again, not trying to be snarky -- I'm trying to respond to what you're writing and if you mean something other than that, I won't know until you clarify.
Those were just examples...not every eating disorder is rice cakes and cucumbers and not every example is the full picture. I didn't have a well balanced diet for how many calories I was eating and it didn't serve me, and I know I'm not alone. Obviously, this isn't everyone and you don't have to have a perfect, flawless diet to be healthy. And maybe it's my own personal history that finds the general CICO to be uncomfortably simple (even if to others it is much more nuanced), even though I agree with it as a basic principle. I apologize if I wasn't being very clear, because I really do think we're on the same page. It's possible I was speaking for myself too much rather than actually interpreting the OP's post, for which I apologize.
I completely agree that EDs can take many different forms. I don't see anything in OP's post to indicate that is what is at play here.
Keep in mind that the choices aren't "clean eating" or "ignore my nutritional needs." It's completely possible to meet one's needs while ignoring the concept of "clean eating" and with the information we currently have available, I'm thinking that is what OP is asking about. Can you meet your weight and fitness goals without "clean eating"? That's the question in the OP and the answer is yes.
For people with a history of malnutrition or a history of ED, the answer may be more complex. But bringing that framework to every post that is simply asking about "clean eating" seems unnecessary to me (not that I am the authority of what belongs in every post, it's just my opinion).
I think we all agree but just come from different places and perceptions of what a horribly vague concept of "clean eating" is so it's not worth continuing to go in circles about it because there's no real right answer and we all agree.0 -
charlieaulert wrote: »Cleaning eating would usually give the individual the correct amount of proteins to aid in recovery. The correct amount of carbs will fuel the work out and allow for a recovery afterwards. Fats are required and therefore will make up the diet too.
No, that's not at all clear. There are many different forms of "clean eating" and many have nothing to do with macros at all.
On the other hand, one can easily get enough protein to maximize muscle retention (as I recommended above) and a healthy balance of nutrient-dense carbs and healthy fats without bothering with "clean eating" one bit.2
This discussion has been closed.
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