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Strong lifts modification question
jerb00
Posts: 155 Member
I know people don't like it when existing programs are modified, but how bad is it really? I have been doing strong curves since the beginning of July. I have pretty much maintained my weight around 95ish lbs (4'10" 38 year old female) since then after losing 8 lbs. I am def seeing more definition but not like I was hoping. So I kinda wanna try something new. Was thinking about strong lifts. Those are my fav lifts anyway so I thought I'd give it a go. But, I was wondering how bad it would be to do it 4 days a week rather than 3. Also, I like hip thrusters so can I add that, too. My thoughts : m- day1 tu- day 2, w- accessory stuff (cuz I like clams and push ups and all) , th- day 3, f- day 1, sat- little cardio, sun- rest. Thoughts?
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I know people don't like it when existing programs are modified, but how bad is it really? I have been doing strong curves since the beginning of July. I have pretty much maintained my weight around 95ish lbs (4'10" 38 year old female) since then after losing 8 lbs. I am def seeing more definition but not like I was hoping. So I kinda wanna try something new. Was thinking about strong lifts. Those are my fav lifts anyway so I thought I'd give it a go. But, I was wondering how bad it would be to do it 4 days a week rather than 3. Also, I like hip thrusters so can I add that, too. My thoughts : m- day1 tu- day 2, w- accessory stuff (cuz I like clams and push ups and all) , th- day 3, f- day 1, sat- little cardio, sun- rest. Thoughts?
You squat every day with SL...I wouldn't do heavy squats on consecutive days 4x per week. It's a full body program, not a split.
If you want to run a heavy program with a split, do something like 5/3/15 -
stronglifts is heavy if it's done as prescribed - may not start out that way, but it gets there. and once it does you lift three days a week because you need four days of rest to get the benefit of working that hard.
as people always say though, 'it depends on your goals'. if getting strong like a person who's doing standard sl is your goal, then i would guess that you kind of have to do standard sl. if your goal is something different, then i'd say whatever/why not. ain't like it's against the law or anything, i just think you need to be aware your results will be different if you do it some different way.0 -
I think it's okay to modify programs if you have a solid grasp on the fundamentals of program design and how to balance stimulus and recovery.
I do not think it's a good idea to do what you are suggesting.4 -
I just want something simple to follow. I would like to lift heavier than I am now and also get leaner and not a long time commitment. I won't be progressing like the program says, though right? I mean, there is only so much I'll be able to add. My goal is nt to be a power lifter. If there is s better program I am totally open to options. I looked st 5/3/1 and seems complicated - but maybe I'm just worn out and can't process it.0
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I think it's okay to modify programs if you have a solid grasp on the fundamentals of program design and how to balance stimulus and recovery.
I do not think it's a good idea to do what you are suggesting.
Thanks for the feedback. Totally don't have a solid grasp on fundamentals- seeking advice...0 -
I would look at Wendler 5/3/1. You'll do one of the main lifts each day and then can kind of mold the rest of your workout to your needs/goals. You won't progress as quickly as you would with SL, but then again, that might not be your goal. There are several prescribed alternates for the program in his book.1
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How much leaner are you trying to get? You are nearing the bottom of the healthy weight range for your height. Your first post said you wanted more definition. Perhaps you need to work on building muscle rather than losing fat. I am assuming that you want muscle definition rather than skeletal definition. If you want to build, you likely will need to eat more than you are now.1
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If you want to do StrongLifts, I'd suggest doing it 3x per week, as prescribed. If you want to add hip thrusts, I think that would be doable - just do them (I'd say however Strong Curves programs them) at the end of the workout that has rows.
4x per week? No, not as a rule.1 -
I add hip thrusts to the SL lifts. On lighter days I superset the main lifts with accessory lifts too. I also like to add a row variation every time.0
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No. Those are full body workouts. You don't do them back to back. You need an upper/lower split if you want to do that.0
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The problem with modification of a program is if you don't understand what the program brings.
There is nothing wrong with bastardizing a program if you comprehend the ingredients of what the program has. Recovery, volume, and stimulas all play a important roll.
A good suggestion to follow is to work the program exactly as written. Work the sh1t out of it. See what the program brings relative to your goals. If you don't run as written, how would you know what works for you and what doesn't?
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Stronglifts only has 2 workouts - A & B. What is "Day 3"?
When I was doing it, the only thing I changed was I worked out every other day instead of 3x a week. That gives you 7 workouts every 2 weeks instead of 6. Aside from some active recovery on my off-days, that is all I did. Once you add in the warmup sets, that is a decent amount of work load.0 -
GauchoMark wrote: »Stronglifts only has 2 workouts - A & B. What is "Day 3"?
When I was doing it, the only thing I changed was I worked out every other day instead of 3x a week. That gives you 7 workouts every 2 weeks instead of 6. Aside from some active recovery on my off-days, that is all I did. Once you add in the warmup sets, that is a decent amount of work load.
I think the poster meant the third workout which is either A or B depending on the rotation.
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How much leaner are you trying to get? You are nearing the bottom of the healthy weight range for your height. Your first post said you wanted more definition. Perhaps you need to work on building muscle rather than losing fat. I am assuming that you want muscle definition rather than skeletal definition. If you want to build, you likely will need to eat more than you are now.
So, yeah, muscle definition. I mean, I might be at the low end of my healthy weight range but I don't look skeletal at all. I have nice looking core/abs- kinda always have- but I carry all my weight in my bottom half. My arms are not nearly too thin but also not as defined as I thought maybe they would be lifting 4x a week for 6ish months. I mean, they don't look a whole lot different than when I started and I followed strong curves perfectly. Not criticizing it, just sayin...
My maintenoence cals are 1365 ish which is where I started eating and I often go over near 1500.
Losing fat in my lower half would be awesome but more definition is really what I am going for. Thinking I can do that without fat loss...0 -
@gaucho- your r right. I dont know enough and should just follow the program crested by someone who does. I liked lifting 4x a week with strong curves, but wanted something simpler. The 5/3/1 seems similar to strong curves. Checked it out online on his website. Didn't read the book...0
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How much leaner are you trying to get? You are nearing the bottom of the healthy weight range for your height. Your first post said you wanted more definition. Perhaps you need to work on building muscle rather than losing fat. I am assuming that you want muscle definition rather than skeletal definition. If you want to build, you likely will need to eat more than you are now.
So, yeah, muscle definition. I mean, I might be at the low end of my healthy weight range but I don't look skeletal at all. I have nice looking core/abs- kinda always have- but I carry all my weight in my bottom half. My arms are not nearly too thin but also not as defined as I thought maybe they would be lifting 4x a week for 6ish months. I mean, they don't look a whole lot different than when I started and I followed strong curves perfectly. Not criticizing it, just sayin...
My maintenoence cals are 1365 ish which is where I started eating and I often go over near 1500.
Losing fat in my lower half would be awesome but more definition is really what I am going for. Thinking I can do that without fat loss...
If you are often eating near 1500 and have maintained your weight since July, then your maintenance calories would be around 1500. A quick glance at a TDEE calculator gave 1551 as maintenance for a moderately active person your size so that seems to make sense to me. If you want to build muscle, you likely will need to eat a bit more. You've essentially been recomping since July and you can see that it is a long term process. Eating more will increase the rate at which you build muscle. But that's a trade-off you have to think about--eat more for faster (not fast, just faster) results or eat the way you are now and realize that the results are more gradual.
By wanting something simpler do you mean that you want less variety in your program? Strong Curves has you change exercises every 4 weeks so I am thinking that you don't want to do that. If that is the case, you might want to build a program using Contreras's basic template and just do that 3-4x per week. (Or you could build two programs and rotate them.) That way you have something with hip thrusts built in.
https://bretcontreras.com/basic-template/1 -
@gaucho- your r right. I dont know enough and should just follow the program crested by someone who does. I liked lifting 4x a week with strong curves, but wanted something simpler. The 5/3/1 seems similar to strong curves. Checked it out online on his website. Didn't read the book...
Having done both, 5/3/1 and Strong Curves could not be more different if they tried. Like, not even close.3 -
How much leaner are you trying to get? You are nearing the bottom of the healthy weight range for your height. Your first post said you wanted more definition. Perhaps you need to work on building muscle rather than losing fat. I am assuming that you want muscle definition rather than skeletal definition. If you want to build, you likely will need to eat more than you are now.
So, yeah, muscle definition. I mean, I might be at the low end of my healthy weight range but I don't look skeletal at all. I have nice looking core/abs- kinda always have- but I carry all my weight in my bottom half. My arms are not nearly too thin but also not as defined as I thought maybe they would be lifting 4x a week for 6ish months. I mean, they don't look a whole lot different than when I started and I followed strong curves perfectly. Not criticizing it, just sayin...
My maintenoence cals are 1365 ish which is where I started eating and I often go over near 1500.
Losing fat in my lower half would be awesome but more definition is really what I am going for. Thinking I can do that without fat loss...
If you are often eating near 1500 and have maintained your weight since July, then your maintenance calories would be around 1500. A quick glance at a TDEE calculator gave 1551 as maintenance for a moderately active person your size so that seems to make sense to me. If you want to build muscle, you likely will need to eat a bit more. You've essentially been recomping since July and you can see that it is a long term process. Eating more will increase the rate at which you build muscle. But that's a trade-off you have to think about--eat more for faster (not fast, just faster) results or eat the way you are now and realize that the results are more gradual.
By wanting something simpler do you mean that you want less variety in your program? Strong Curves has you change exercises every 4 weeks so I am thinking that you don't want to do that. If that is the case, you might want to build a program using Contreras's basic template and just do that 3-4x per week. (Or you could build two programs and rotate them.) That way you have something with hip thrusts built in.
https://bretcontreras.com/basic-template/
Thanks! Yes, slow. Maybe I'll increase calories to help with building muscle. As for the program, yeah, I kinda wanted less variety, something I could memorize, work hard, but short and sweet. The most important things. That is what led me to consider strong lifts. The template has a bit more exercises than I wanted per day, but as you said, I can customize a couple and rotate. Easy memorization. Thanks!!!0 -
after lifting for 3 years I wouldn't modify a well known program...that is for professionals who have vast knowledge of body, muscle and how they work together with the lifts...
SL is a good program but no you don't want to run it 4x a week...you will see why when you get into the heavy lifts in a month or two.2 -
_dracarys_ wrote: »@gaucho- your r right. I dont know enough and should just follow the program crested by someone who does. I liked lifting 4x a week with strong curves, but wanted something simpler. The 5/3/1 seems similar to strong curves. Checked it out online on his website. Didn't read the book...
Having done both, 5/3/1 and Strong Curves could not be more different if they tried. Like, not even close.
I defer to you. I only skimmed his website and it seemed like a lot of different exercises on a rotation which reminded me of strong curves. But I didn't read the book and shouldn't have commented without knowing...0 -
I would look at Wendler 5/3/1. You'll do one of the main lifts each day and then can kind of mold the rest of your workout to your needs/goals. You won't progress as quickly as you would with SL, but then again, that might not be your goal. There are several prescribed alternates for the program in his book.
This! So much this! I love Wendler 5/3/1 because there's room for working in accessories (which I like to do). I ❤️ ❤️ ❤️ my hip thrusts, so I add them to my deadlift day, but I do more sets and higher reps with way less weight (BBB if you know your Wendler 5/3/1).
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I defer to you. I only skimmed his website and it seemed like a lot of different exercises on a rotation which reminded me of strong curves. But I didn't read the book and shouldn't have commented without knowing...
if you want something simple but serious, which you can more or less memorize without having to consult notes all the time to see waht you do next, then your pick of stronglifts was good. that one is very simple once you get the basic idea, and afetr that it's just 'add 5 pounds' or 'add 10 pounds' depending on lift.
however the downside for your purposes is that it is pretty full-on. it's not easy to do stronglifts as it was designed, AND find room in your own body's budget for being serious about yet one more lift.
wendler is even simpler than sl in terms of knowing what lifts you should do on a given day - it has one lift per day, whereas stronglifts has alternating pairs, plus the every-time factor of squats. with only one lift per workout that does leave room for you to customize your accessories. but wendler isn't really a carry-around-in-your-head kind of programme because the weight that you lift is different for each set. and the number of reps in a set varies too, based on yet another pattern.
so it's a bit of a dilemma if you're really wedded to your hip thrusts. sl is simple enough to have room for additions, except it's too demanding leave you energy for additions. wendler is simple enough to have room for additions, in terms of physical demand . . . except it's not really as simple to 'just do it' as it might seem.
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canadianlbs wrote: »I defer to you. I only skimmed his website and it seemed like a lot of different exercises on a rotation which reminded me of strong curves. But I didn't read the book and shouldn't have commented without knowing...
if you want something simple but serious, which you can more or less memorize without having to consult notes all the time to see waht you do next, then your pick of stronglifts was good. that one is very simple once you get the basic idea, and afetr that it's just 'add 5 pounds' or 'add 10 pounds' depending on lift.
however the downside for your purposes is that it is pretty full-on. it's not easy to do stronglifts as it was designed, AND find room in your own body's budget for being serious about yet one more lift.
wendler is even simpler than sl in terms of knowing what lifts you should do on a given day - it has one lift per day, whereas stronglifts has alternating pairs, plus the every-time factor of squats. with only one lift per workout that does leave room for you to customize your accessories. but wendler isn't really a carry-around-in-your-head kind of programme because the weight that you lift is different for each set. and the number of reps in a set varies too, based on yet another pattern.
so it's a bit of a dilemma if you're really wedded to your hip thrusts. sl is simple enough to have room for additions, except it's too demanding leave you energy for additions. wendler is simple enough to have room for additions, in terms of physical demand . . . except it's not really as simple to 'just do it' as it might seem.
Appreciate your analysis very much. You summed up what I want way more succinctly than I did and got down to the meat of my dilemma and offered pros/cons for both.
For a mental break - I think I'll do strong lifts as far as I can the way it is written and then move on to the 5/3/1 when I can't go any further.
Appreciate everyone's remarks.1 -
Update and question: been doing SL for 5 weeks. I have really been able to increase the weight in my deadlifts, bench, row, and overhead press, but my squat is stalling. I lift at home and have a small 25 lb bar that I use for all exercises (including hip thrusts) except for squat. Back squats kill my knees and I just can't get comfortable to the bar doing a front squat or a front squat with he bar in my elbow (dunno what it is called). So, I have been doing goblet squats cuz they feel better in my knees. 1. Is this an acceptable substitution 2. I cannot progress. Been stuck st 55 lbs for 2 weeks. That is 7 days of squatting the same lbs. part of it is lifting the 60lb dumbbell off our rack. Pretty hard for me right now. But more than that I don't think I could physically do it. My legs just seem exhausted. Thoughts as to why I can't do heavier? And, what do j do about it? I know to remove weight if I can't make all the sets/reps three times in a row, but what if I just can't add any more weight?0
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If you're thinking of giving Wendler a try, Google around for some calculators and spreadsheets. I built a spreadsheet based on one I found on the interwebs. It lives in my Google drive and I just open it on my phone. It makes it pretty simple to just open that up and go on any given day
Sorry, no big suggestions on your squat stalling. Squats are why I gave up on Starting Strength. If I'm going to progress, I need to go heavy, then have a lot of rest. If you're doing them everyday, I'd try some very serious rest (maybe a week?) then attack them again. Or do a recovery week of low reps, very light weight (25 or 30) if you just can't live without your squats. (My husband is that guy - he just doesn't love his workouts if there aren't ANY squats.)
The idea that back squats kill your knees worries me. If you can, I'd try to buddy up with a serious lifting friend or go get a training session at a meathead gym to have someone evaluate your form. Or do back squats but do them as box squats - might help get your body trained to do it in a way that keeps your knees safe and happy.
Good luck!!0
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