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"Newbie gains" how long does this last?

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  • serapelserapel Member Posts: 502 Member Member Posts: 502 Member

    Older untrained individuals can't just go in and tear up the gym like young kids can.

    Speaking from experience here.

    Tearing it up? Maybe. I just want to see her progress which=results. She's not made of glass. If she's smart about progressing the weights she will see results.

    FWIW-I'm not that far behind you gals in age. :) I still tear it up (and sometimes feel it the next day- :D ) I lift weights as I always have. The one thing I do differently is I spend about 15 minutes on mobility work before I even touch a weight. The difference it has made is incredible.

    50 and 40 are very different ages for recovery times. At 45 I still can progress faster than a 50 year old.

  • Leadfoot_LewisLeadfoot_Lewis Member Posts: 1,623 Member Member Posts: 1,623 Member
    serapel wrote: »
    If I followed your advice, and I wouldn't, I would injure myself trying to get there too quickly.

    At 50, slow and steady wins the race.

    Just curious what specific advice I gave would have you injuring yourself?


    edited December 2016
  • serapelserapel Member Posts: 502 Member Member Posts: 502 Member
    Thanks for the routine variation suggestions. I had to google "glute bridge" and will google some of the others later on.

    My legs are actually in fairly decent shape as I had to lug my 177 lb body around on them and actually can do deep knee bends and rising again without using assistance. I get a fairly good workout on the majority of my legs and glutes by virtue of cycling. Cycling is my cardio.

    However, things like "glute bridges" are actually part of my "pilates conditioning for weight loss" DVD which I will be using again to change things up a bit when needed. Its a wonderful routine for slimming my waist actually, though right now fat loss is needed there mostly.

    "Body weight squat with exercise ball against the wall (with ISO hold)
    Body weight high box squat
    Body weight (lower the box as you get stronger) squat"

    I can squat, though again with the cycling I think too much of that is overkill at this point given that an hour of cycling works the legs similarly. However, I did have an ANCIENT calesthetics VHS (thrift stores are awesome) that focused on Isometric exercise, and I totally lost it in a hurricane. It was super slimming when I was already around 135 it brought my waist in another inch, I went from an 8 to a 6. I looked awesome in those bodysuits under jeans that were popular in the early 2000's. I still have them as a matter of fact. So thank you for reminding me of ISO in addition to pilates.

    Another workout I like to do when I'm more fit is Cardio Sculpt with "fanny lifter" box https://www.amazon.com/Firm-Sculpting-System-Cardio-Sculpt/dp/B00008LE00 There's way too many squats in there for my liking, lol, with weights on my shoulders and the box to catch me if I need it.

    I also have an entire bookshelf of additonal DVD's and VHS tapes of some things I loved (billy blanks!) and Donna Richardson I remember being shorter, as high intensity as I wanted to go, workouts, when I was thinner. Found it on youtube the "kick and jab" portion I loved, it starts around 21:47

    I have multiple The Firm sets, seriously I have like 30? Different videos, a resistance band wall mount (made by moi) etc etc. Oh and lets not forget my old standby, Jane Fonda's Low Impact Step Aerobic workout. I bought it new in 92 and still have my steps!

    But I need fat gone. Just cycling alone raises my heart rate pretty high, I need to be more fit for half the videos I have!

    Oh and injury, the bursitis with corresponding neck problems and a bulging disc in my back is courtesy of an 18 year old driver who rear ended me at a stop light. I have some mildish, if I'm careful, pain and stiffness in my left hip from a sedentary standing job I no longer have. (thank goodness) And I'm getting to old to be interested in going too fast with working out when its calories in versus calories out will supposedly accomplish my fat loss goals. (having faith!)

    Did you know I used my resistance bands wrong last November? While having no upper body muscles I allowed the bands to overstretch my rib cage, and thats when I found out you can dislocate a rib. I did not know you could dislocate a rib. Turns out you can and I did. That. Was, Not. Fun.

    Enjoy the journey :smiley: and laugh at all the 80's and 90's aerobic outfits.

    I forgot you bike. That's awesome!!!
  • successgal1successgal1 Member Posts: 996 Member Member Posts: 996 Member
    serapel wrote: »
    Thanks for the routine variation suggestions. I had to google "glute bridge" and will google some of the others later on.

    My legs are actually in fairly decent shape as I had to lug my 177 lb body around on them and actually can do deep knee bends and rising again without using assistance. I get a fairly good workout on the majority of my legs and glutes by virtue of cycling. Cycling is my cardio.

    However, things like "glute bridges" are actually part of my "pilates conditioning for weight loss" DVD which I will be using again to change things up a bit when needed. Its a wonderful routine for slimming my waist actually, though right now fat loss is needed there mostly.

    "Body weight squat with exercise ball against the wall (with ISO hold)
    Body weight high box squat
    Body weight (lower the box as you get stronger) squat"

    I can squat, though again with the cycling I think too much of that is overkill at this point given that an hour of cycling works the legs similarly. However, I did have an ANCIENT calesthetics VHS (thrift stores are awesome) that focused on Isometric exercise, and I totally lost it in a hurricane. It was super slimming when I was already around 135 it brought my waist in another inch, I went from an 8 to a 6. I looked awesome in those bodysuits under jeans that were popular in the early 2000's. I still have them as a matter of fact. So thank you for reminding me of ISO in addition to pilates.

    Another workout I like to do when I'm more fit is Cardio Sculpt with "fanny lifter" box https://www.amazon.com/Firm-Sculpting-System-Cardio-Sculpt/dp/B00008LE00 There's way too many squats in there for my liking, lol, with weights on my shoulders and the box to catch me if I need it.

    I also have an entire bookshelf of additonal DVD's and VHS tapes of some things I loved (billy blanks!) and Donna Richardson I remember being shorter, as high intensity as I wanted to go, workouts, when I was thinner. Found it on youtube the "kick and jab" portion I loved, it starts around 21:47

    I have multiple The Firm sets, seriously I have like 30? Different videos, a resistance band wall mount (made by moi) etc etc. Oh and lets not forget my old standby, Jane Fonda's Low Impact Step Aerobic workout. I bought it new in 92 and still have my steps!

    But I need fat gone. Just cycling alone raises my heart rate pretty high, I need to be more fit for half the videos I have!

    Oh and injury, the bursitis with corresponding neck problems and a bulging disc in my back is courtesy of an 18 year old driver who rear ended me at a stop light. I have some mildish, if I'm careful, pain and stiffness in my left hip from a sedentary standing job I no longer have. (thank goodness) And I'm getting to old to be interested in going too fast with working out when its calories in versus calories out will supposedly accomplish my fat loss goals. (having faith!)

    Did you know I used my resistance bands wrong last November? While having no upper body muscles I allowed the bands to overstretch my rib cage, and thats when I found out you can dislocate a rib. I did not know you could dislocate a rib. Turns out you can and I did. That. Was, Not. Fun.

    Enjoy the journey :smiley: and laugh at all the 80's and 90's aerobic outfits.

    I forgot you bike. That's awesome!!!

    I was even able to bike using on hand on the handlebars and the other keeping my rib in place. Fortunately Florida is flat.

    Lol most of the workouts are typical sports bras and tights, the only truly dated one is Jane Fonda, but its such a silly funny upbeat workout that has resistance as high as you want it, if you add height and weights, and ive done it so many times I don't have to think about it, that I keep it around! It keeps you tall and straight.
  • GottaBurnEmAllGottaBurnEmAll Member Posts: 7,722 Member Member Posts: 7,722 Member

    Older untrained individuals can't just go in and tear up the gym like young kids can.

    Speaking from experience here.

    Tearing it up? Maybe. I just want to see her progress which=results. She's not made of glass. If she's smart about progressing the weights she will see results.

    FWIW-I'm not that far behind you gals in age. :) I still tear it up (and sometimes feel it the next day- :D ) I lift weights as I always have. The one thing I do differently is I spend about 15 minutes on mobility work before I even touch a weight. The difference it has made is incredible.

    You just said that you "lift weights as you always have". The OP is just starting.

    Who are you to tell her that she's not lifting heavy enough instead of congratulating her for starting somewhere and just progressing slowly?

    Notice that I said older "untrained" individuals? You're obviously not one. The OP is. She needs time to progress.
  • GottaBurnEmAllGottaBurnEmAll Member Posts: 7,722 Member Member Posts: 7,722 Member
    OP, If you want a full body structured program that you can progress with at home, try buying Strong Curves. You can use resistance bands to mimic some of the cable exercises in the regular program, and can start with the body weight program if you'd like.
  • serapelserapel Member Posts: 502 Member Member Posts: 502 Member
    OP, If you want a full body structured program that you can progress with at home, try buying Strong Curves. You can use resistance bands to mimic some of the cable exercises in the regular program, and can start with the body weight program if you'd like.

    I second this. You will LOVE this program. It is designed specifically for women. You only progress to the next level when you feel you are ready.
  • nutmegoreonutmegoreo Member Posts: 15,510 Member Member Posts: 15,510 Member
    When I started lifting, the water retention lasted around a month (I don't remember exactly how long, it's been a while). But then one day, there was a big whoosh and pile dropped off over night, and stayed off. I know it's frustrating when the scale doesn't move, but give it time. There's the logical side of your brain and the illogical side. Ask yourself WWSD, what would Spock do? Sorry, I watched a show on Spock last night. Progress at your own pace to minimize risk of injury. Listen to your body. My worst set backs caused by injury occurred when I didn't listen.
  • canadianlbscanadianlbs Member Posts: 5,202 Member Member Posts: 5,202 Member
    so i skimmed this and tried to just skip right past the ideology fights since to me that's all theory while there's a specific person in question. but i'm a 51yo woman who is prone to inflammation and -itises, bikes and has lifted heavy enough for the water retention thing . . . . so.

    OP, for me that water-weight spike is one of those things that just is what they is. it's not for me to tell you what to think or how to think about it, but for what my perspective is worth:

    it bothered me for the first three or four months. then i had one of those shedding experiences where you pee all night long and wake up four pounds lighter. so then for another two or three months i got kind of dependant/addicted to the psychological rush that that brings. then by the time the first year was behind me, i think i'd realized it's so unpredictable that there's no point in even thinking about it in either sense. neither as banked weight loss that will one day just suddenly all come together for me, nor as real weight gain that ought to cause me to hate my whole life. i weigh less this year than i weighed two years ago; done.

    so i just gave up caring because there is no point in caring about things that you can't predict and you can't control. sure it bothers me, but if it bothers me as much as all that then the 'answer' is to give up lifting. i like lifting though, so no plans to do that.
  • successgal1successgal1 Member Posts: 996 Member Member Posts: 996 Member
    Believe me I understand water retention in women. Believe me. I do all of the other things too but....

    Side leg lifts, work the muscles that run directly over the hip bone. Perhaps hip is the wrong term? The upper pelvis bulgy boney protrusion? Its where there is a pad of fat on me. Yes I know I can't spot reduce, but working that muscle(s) by doing side leg lifts reduces the bulge. Its different direction of movement then when cycling.


    Compare leg lifts to an exercise like a basic parallel squat (which works all the muscles in legs) - which sounds better? You want to get the best "bang for your buck" when you're working out. I guarantee you if you start doing bodyweight squats to parallel and progress from there, it will help that area out for you.
    3lbs is on my weakest muscles. Of which I have few to none almost to the point of atrophy in my left, outside upper arm, due to a flare up of bursitis a few months ago that made lifting my left arm to the side feel like I was lifting into the blade of a knife. It still hurts but I can work through it now. 5 lbs on the muscles that can take 5, 8 where I can and 10 where I can (bicep).

    The goal is always to increase weight, as your body is very intelligent and will adapt to the stresses you put in through. So if you do 3lbs for 8 reps for a couple of weeks your body has most likely adapted to that weight. So you need to either increase the reps or increase the weight (as you long as you keep good form at a higher height).

    Also, I am dealing with a "cranky" shoulder as you are. :/ I'd suggest if something hurts, don't do it. Can you overhead press dumbbells without pain? I'd suggest that over a lateral raise that causes pain.

    Older untrained individuals can't just go in and tear up the gym like young kids can.

    Speaking from experience here.

    Thanks I do realize the goal is always to increase weight, thats why I have multiple weights and if I do become wonder woman I can hit my man's set out on the back porch. The 3lbs are strictly for my sore shoulder, and yes it hurts with an overhead press as well, but not as much as lateral. Its an inflammation of the bursa, kind of indescribably painful when I have a flare up, now its down to sharp stabbing pain when I life to the side or press up. But, being inflammation of the bursa, the one way in my personal experience to help it "heal" fully (it never really does) is to work it, it's like the swelling muscle underneath forces it to stretch from the inside, if that makes sense. I'm finally at the point where I can do correct form and just grimace at the pain with a 3lb weight. I know its not in the joint, its not a rip, tear or strain, its bursitis. Until you have it you wouldn't understand.

    I'm using the same weight on the other shoulder because frankly when I looked in the mirror I'm ridiculously lopsided with shoulders at two different level of muscles. I can lift straight armed to the front, work my triceps and biceps, all is good there.

    I googled the "basic parallel squat" and hell NO. There is NO WAY I'm fit to do that and I'd blow a knee out somewhere. NO WAY. Safest way to squat is NOT to go below your knee. There is no "kneed" for it, ha ha. That being said I have said I can crouch to the ground and get back up again without assistance, but I have no interest it inviting another injury by doing that. Tore my meniscus once, don't want that pain and layup again either.

    I don't want an all body workout on any given day. Been there done that. All it does is make me all over tired and sore. I'd rather do lower body one day and upper with more core on the next, then half of me always feels fine, lol. Maybe when I'm back down to 135, my goal weight, but at 166, just. no. Too much too fast, too much weight to cause imbalance, improper form and injury.

    Anyway, so those particular exercises ONLY are 3 lbs, the others are 5,8, 10. And I've done this all of twice, this week, since like April. So very new to my muscles, yet they do have muscle memory. I was already able to do 8 where I did 5 the last time. Had to wake things up.

    Will I ever be up to 25lb dumbells? Doubt it, don't care either. Would like to carry a 5 gallon bucket of water around again without straining. Have you tried that? Functional lifting. Also called "caring for the neighbors horse". lol

    Bulging disc in my back. I have to think carefully about every move I make.
  • successgal1successgal1 Member Posts: 996 Member Member Posts: 996 Member
    OP, If you want a full body structured program that you can progress with at home, try buying Strong Curves. You can use resistance bands to mimic some of the cable exercises in the regular program, and can start with the body weight program if you'd like.

    Thanks I just looked that up. Many of those moves are those I already do, that I've picked up from my various workout videos as having good effect. Some I can't yet do again. Some I will never do, or may never be able to do, due to that bursitis, like anything resembling a plank, and bulging disc.
    edited December 2016
  • successgal1successgal1 Member Posts: 996 Member Member Posts: 996 Member
    nutmegoreo wrote: »
    When I started lifting, the water retention lasted around a month (I don't remember exactly how long, it's been a while). But then one day, there was a big whoosh and pile dropped off over night, and stayed off. I know it's frustrating when the scale doesn't move, but give it time. There's the logical side of your brain and the illogical side. Ask yourself WWSD, what would Spock do? Sorry, I watched a show on Spock last night. Progress at your own pace to minimize risk of injury. Listen to your body. My worst set backs caused by injury occurred when I didn't listen.

    Thanks! I think I was at a month of working out and waiting last time before I finally gave up. I got down to 173, working with those "all over body" workouts, was thinner, about as thin as I am now, but heavier and felt bloated. Maybe i can stick it out this time. Vegas is 10 weeks away.
  • serapelserapel Member Posts: 502 Member Member Posts: 502 Member
    I love your attitude! Only YOU know what's best for you.

    I don't squat unless I'm holding onto something. Like you. I don't want injury. We are too old to injure ourselves.

    I love the power I feel when I lift something over 200 lbs with my butt cheeks haha
  • successgal1successgal1 Member Posts: 996 Member Member Posts: 996 Member
    Well, jumped from 9 miles on the bike to 12 miles yesterday, courtesy of me forgetting about the tomatoes on the counter and they went bad, and I needed tomatoes for the 7 layer dip for the party we're off to today. So Super Target is 6 miles taking the long way on our bikes. Could have cut it short to get home but we did the full round trip for the full 12 miles in 1 hour 20 minutes. Thank goodness no headwind either way or we'd have cut it short (by about 3 miles). I am rewarded today with lower back pain, like a vertabrae is slipping around on a disc (which happened while I was still lying in bad, I had the nerve to relax for a minute), on the other side from where I normally have such pain, AND my scale is 2 pounds heavier.

    Yeah yeah I know.
  • successgal1successgal1 Member Posts: 996 Member Member Posts: 996 Member
    To those keeping track on my newbie gains besides me.... It's been 10 days since I started working out in addition to a calorie deficit. It feels FAR longer. Switching cycling with upper body every other day.

    Did another 12 miles on the bike yesterday, in addition to upper body which I missed on Sunday. The scale has gone from a low of 165.8 to 168.4 and doesn't seem interested in budging from there.

    I am now able to work my left shoulder with a 5 lb weight and less pain. I'm noticing increased muscle in my arms (yay muscle memory?), and naturally more defined muscles in my legs, thighs etc. For upper budy I do 2 sets of 10 of the highest weight whichever muscle group can handle it with proper form, using freeweights. By the time I've done every other exercise I can think of and end with biceps, the bicep reaches fatigue by the 7th rep of set two. (stop laughing). I faked some deadlifts with my 8lb freeweights, if I hadn't already done overhead press I could have combined the two. Have to move slow and careful so's I don't knock my back out of place.

    I THINK my waist is a tiny bit smaller, whether because of fat loss or just because my abs/core are getting a workout its hard to say. The stubborn fat which is usually hard is starting to feel soft. I was able to more easily move the aforementioned almost full 5 gallon bucket of water yesterday, which google tells me is about 37 lbs given that it wasn't completely full but adding the weight of the bucket.

    Hoping for a whoosh, but I've never been the whooshy type, lol.
  • Trina2040Trina2040 Member, Premium Posts: 214 Member Member, Premium Posts: 214 Member
    Hi, just wanted to add a point about the scale. I understand your concern about scale weight but have you tried following your weight trend over time? I use Trendweight.com. I weigh in every morning then log and watch the trend over time (months) before I start to freak out about my poundage. While I fluctuate up and down day to day, which is normal, I'm able to see the continuous downward trend over time. Two weeks is not enough time to gather all the data points needed to see if your diet and exercise is on point. You're freaking out for no reason.

    I'm 67 years old and have lost 48-50 lbs, 5'2.5" tall. It took me 15 months to lose the weight and I'm currently in maintenance for well over a year now. I started at 179 and I'm around 129 - 131 lbs (fluctuations). I still weigh in every day, log, and exercise (cardio & weights) 4 days a week. I lift up to 30 lbs doing Body Pump classes and have to watch my knees.

    How awesome that you cycle -- there's no way I could ever do that and not blow out a knee! Keep the faith.

    edited December 2016
  • successgal1successgal1 Member Posts: 996 Member Member Posts: 996 Member
    :-) I'm not "freaking out". But I find it hard to stay motivated for long periods of time with no results. And yes diet is on point as stated in my OP. Time is on fact, the problem. There currently is no downward trend. Without it then all the work and all the diet restrictions seem futile.

    Been there before, many times. Am posting here to document so maybe at least the documentation can keep me from getting disgusted with the whole process. And if/when i FINALLY see weight go down again, maybe it will help other exercise newbies.

    I was losing fine without exercise.
  • nutmegoreonutmegoreo Member Posts: 15,510 Member Member Posts: 15,510 Member
    To those keeping track on my newbie gains besides me.... It's been 10 days since I started working out in addition to a calorie deficit. It feels FAR longer. Switching cycling with upper body every other day.

    Did another 12 miles on the bike yesterday, in addition to upper body which I missed on Sunday. The scale has gone from a low of 165.8 to 168.4 and doesn't seem interested in budging from there.

    I am now able to work my left shoulder with a 5 lb weight and less pain. I'm noticing increased muscle in my arms (yay muscle memory?), and naturally more defined muscles in my legs, thighs etc. For upper budy I do 2 sets of 10 of the highest weight whichever muscle group can handle it with proper form, using freeweights. By the time I've done every other exercise I can think of and end with biceps, the bicep reaches fatigue by the 7th rep of set two. (stop laughing). I faked some deadlifts with my 8lb freeweights, if I hadn't already done overhead press I could have combined the two. Have to move slow and careful so's I don't knock my back out of place.

    I THINK my waist is a tiny bit smaller, whether because of fat loss or just because my abs/core are getting a workout its hard to say. The stubborn fat which is usually hard is starting to feel soft. I was able to more easily move the aforementioned almost full 5 gallon bucket of water yesterday, which google tells me is about 37 lbs given that it wasn't completely full but adding the weight of the bucket.

    Hoping for a whoosh, but I've never been the whooshy type, lol.

    I never was one to have stalls and whoosh either, until weightlifting was added. Stay patient. I know that's hard.
  • successgal1successgal1 Member Posts: 996 Member Member Posts: 996 Member
  • rileysownerrileysowner Member Posts: 7,806 Member Member Posts: 7,806 Member
    Glad you are getting the hang of things. Just to be clear this weight gain is no newbie gains, those are the muscle gains that new lifters can have even in a deficit, but they are slow, months in a better measure than weeks. This is water weight cause by the micro damage to the muscle caused by lifting weights and needed to help repair them stronger, although not necessarily bigger.
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