raw till four? ?

2

Replies

  • kimny72
    kimny72 Posts: 16,011 Member
    OP, your body NEEDS protein and fat. If you want to eat nothing but fruit during the day, I guess that's fine, but please try to get some protein and fat in your evening meal. Like I said, nuts seeds avocado lentils beans.

    No I haven't done raw til 4. I do eat raw produce every day because I believe it is an important part of a healthy diet. But based on the knowledge I have acquired over the years, I do not believe raw til 4 is necessary or more healthy than other ways of eating. I don't need to try something to know its value. I don't have to jump out of my second floor window to know I can't fly and it will hurt when I hit the ground.
  • baristabeannz
    baristabeannz Posts: 10 Member
    OK guys first of all animal protein leaks calcium from your bones! Animal dairy products are mainly consumed by USA Finland England and sweedon. The countries with the highest osteoporosis is USA England awesome and Finland. No one ever went to hospital because they lacked protein. Leafy greens fruit and veggies provide all the protein I need. Forty grams a day is easy to hit. Apes and chimpanzee are the closest animal I'm DNA and they don't eat anything but bananas greens seeds and nuts and there body strength is ten times greater than a man's. Let's not he stupid we are the only creatures that cook our food
  • paperpudding
    paperpudding Posts: 9,282 Member
    Many countries other than England, Finland, Sweden and USA have people who consume dairy products.
    All of Europe in fact and any westernised countries like Australia and. New Zealand.

    Asian people not so much - since many more are genetically lactose intolerant.

    But nobody was saying you have to consume dairy or any animal products. But whether you do or don't, you still need adequate protein and fat in your diet.
    This can certainly be achieved on a vegetarian non-dairy diet - but not on what you are eating currently.
  • firef1y72
    firef1y72 Posts: 1,579 Member
    baristabeannz wrote: »
    OK guys first of all animal protein leaks calcium from your bones! Animal dairy products are mainly consumed by USA Finland England and sweedon. The countries with the highest osteoporosis is USA England awesome and Finland. No one ever went to hospital because they lacked protein. Leafy greens fruit and veggies provide all the protein I need. Forty grams a day is easy to hit. Apes and chimpanzee are the closest animal I'm DNA and they don't eat anything but bananas greens seeds and nuts and there body strength is ten times greater than a man's. Let's not he stupid we are the only creatures that cook our food

    Actually meat is an important part of a chimp's diet, from eggs to chicks to small reptiles to monkeys they eat meat products. Not cooked I'll give you that, but they definitely eat meat.
  • lynn_glenmont
    lynn_glenmont Posts: 10,093 Member
    baristabeannz wrote: »
    OK guys first of all animal protein leaks calcium from your bones! Animal dairy products are mainly consumed by USA Finland England and sweedon. The countries with the highest osteoporosis is USA England awesome and Finland. No one ever went to hospital because they lacked protein. Leafy greens fruit and veggies provide all the protein I need. Forty grams a day is easy to hit. Apes and chimpanzee are the closest animal I'm DNA and they don't eat anything but bananas greens seeds and nuts and there body strength is ten times greater than a man's. Let's not he stupid we are the only creatures that cook our food

    In addition to all the points other people are making about the diets of apes (chimpanzees are apes, so I'm including them), you don't seem to be eating any seeds or nuts. And you don't give amounts of what you're eating, but the kale and greens in one typical smoothie and one large dinner salad will not make much of a dent even in your very low goal of 40 g/day (even by the U.S. gov't recommendations of .85/kg a day, which are often criticized by MFP'ers as inadequate for people in a deficit trying to preserve muscle mass, or anyone trying to build muscle, or older people, etc. etc.), you'd have to be pretty small for 40 g/day to be adequate.

    Also, it's called "raw till four." Are you eating your tea before four? Are you not eating anything after? "Raw till four" means you're supposed to have "regular" (cooked, including animal sources) after four. Are you trying to combine IF with "raw till four"?
  • singingflutelady
    singingflutelady Posts: 8,736 Member
    Also people have been hospitalized for low protein. Actually because of medical reasons my blood protein (albumin) was super low which caused huge problems including major edema.
  • nutmegoreo
    nutmegoreo Posts: 15,532 Member
    baristabeannz wrote: »
    OK guys first of all animal protein leaks calcium from your bones! Animal dairy products are mainly consumed by USA Finland England and sweedon. The countries with the highest osteoporosis is USA England awesome and Finland. No one ever went to hospital because they lacked protein. Leafy greens fruit and veggies provide all the protein I need. Forty grams a day is easy to hit. Apes and chimpanzee are the closest animal I'm DNA and they don't eat anything but bananas greens seeds and nuts and there body strength is ten times greater than a man's. Let's not he stupid we are the only creatures that cook our food

    In addition to low albumin mentioned above, low protein is also associated with poorer outcomes related to healing after an injury. It's actually important enough that hospitals have changed post operative protocols. Protein is essential to healing. I would strongly suggest getting health advice from actual professionals rather than YouTube zealots.
  • baristabeannz
    baristabeannz Posts: 10 Member
    True. Thanks xx. God bless everyone today and it's been a great chat.
  • cwolfman13
    cwolfman13 Posts: 41,865 Member
    baristabeannz wrote: »
    OK guys first of all animal protein leaks calcium from your bones! Animal dairy products are mainly consumed by USA Finland England and sweedon. The countries with the highest osteoporosis is USA England awesome and Finland. No one ever went to hospital because they lacked protein. Leafy greens fruit and veggies provide all the protein I need. Forty grams a day is easy to hit. Apes and chimpanzee are the closest animal I'm DNA and they don't eat anything but bananas greens seeds and nuts and there body strength is ten times greater than a man's. Let's not he stupid we are the only creatures that cook our food

    Well, let's not be stupid...humans have been cooking for about 1.9 million years...

  • nutmegoreo
    nutmegoreo Posts: 15,532 Member
    baristabeannz wrote: »
    I'm going to go get a napkin because I just got served. Haha actually a really great chat and I appreciate your feedback and different views. Thank-you it has me thinking. Cheers team. This is the good side of hoping mfp community we can nut this stuff out

    Thanks for being open to listening! We usually just get told how rude and mean we are. :laugh:

    Keep looking for what's right for you. I really respect @janejellyroll, she is inspiring to me, and has a good handle on managing vegan balanced with nutrition and health. Another one, although I haven't seen him around much is @BecomingBane.
  • veganfaceholex
    veganfaceholex Posts: 5 Member
    Im not rawtill4 but i am hclf vegan.
    I eat rice at night and im always at a deficit.
    It works, you just need to eat less than you burn.
    Dont stuff yourself. I tried tawtill4 the "incorrect way" and i stuffed myself with 10 bananas a day and 6 cups of rice. No lol. I gained about 6 pounds
  • cerise_noir
    cerise_noir Posts: 5,468 Member
    baristabeannz wrote: »
    OK guys first of all animal protein leaks calcium from your bones! Animal dairy products are mainly consumed by USA Finland England and sweedon. The countries with the highest osteoporosis is USA England awesome and Finland. No one ever went to hospital because they lacked protein. Leafy greens fruit and veggies provide all the protein I need. Forty grams a day is easy to hit. Apes and chimpanzee are the closest animal I'm DNA and they don't eat anything but bananas greens seeds and nuts and there body strength is ten times greater than a man's. Let's not he stupid we are the only creatures that cook our food

    Please post scientific evidence. Thanks.

    Do you even KNOW proteins role in the body? Hint: It's not just for muscle... and no, leafy greens and veggies do not have adequate protein.

    This has to be one of the most ignorant things I've read on mfp. Seriously. Not backed by science, full of scaremongering, misinformation of apes and chips (they DO eat flesh...shame on you, they're omnivores!!!).
  • baristabeannz
    baristabeannz Posts: 10 Member
    How many bananas do you eat now per day?i eat around 4 as ND at night two potato's and kumura. I have a whole pineapple for lunch and a juice during the day. Around 1500 calories I am concerned I might be starting to gain raw till four I will wait and see
    veganfaceholex wrote: »
    Im not rawtill4 but i am hclf vegan.
    I eat rice at night and im always at a deficit.
    It works, you just need to eat less than you burn.
    Dont stuff yourself. I tried tawtill4 the "incorrect way" and i stuffed myself with 10 bananas a day and 6 cups of rice. No lol. I gained about 6 pounds

  • CharlieBeansmomTracey
    CharlieBeansmomTracey Posts: 7,682 Member
    rainbowbow wrote: »
    I just want to say, even the creator of raw till 4 doesn't eat raw til 4 anymore.


    Unless you're in a tropical climate where you have plenty of access to amazing produce AND you're an endurance athlete burning thousands and thousands of calories a day, this program is not for you.

    Ever wondered why she advocates "smashing in the calories"? It's because she only gets enough protein and fats in her diet by eating 4,000 + calories a day. How does she stay so slim eating so many calories? Take a look at her strava for an idea of how much she burns on her "not difficult, easy pace" bike rides.


    P.S. In 2015 here was her data JUST from riding. She does other stuff as well.

    Cycling
    Distance 12,307.9km
    Time 612h 15m
    Elevation Gain 218,444m
    Rides 329

    This is nearly 2 hours of bike riding and 37k distance (22 miles) uphill every single day.

    and if you look at said person they have little lean muscle mass.I cant see where that person has any decent amount of muscle. but then again I stay away from the persons videos and other bunk they promote. many people have become sick,overweight, etc after trying that persons way of eating because that person promoted it would help with diabetes,insulin resistance and even cancer.which we know with diabetes/insulin resistance a lot of people cant do high carb. not to mention this person says you can eat more than 4000+ calories a day and not gain any weight. which we know thats not true unless like you said the person is an athlete
  • jessef593
    jessef593 Posts: 2,272 Member
    Um.. Do you not consume any significant sources of fat or protein? All you need to be is in a caloric deficit. That sounds like one of the most ridiculous fad diets I've ever heard of to be painfully honest.
  • jessef593
    jessef593 Posts: 2,272 Member
    And why 4? Why not 4:01, 4:02, or even 5? It sounds like you're looking for a paleo diet. Also, skip the white rice and eat some quinoa or wild rice.
  • Christine_72
    Christine_72 Posts: 16,049 Member
    jessef593 wrote: »
    Um.. Do you not consume any significant sources of fat or protein? All you need to be is in a caloric deficit. That sounds like one of the most ridiculous fad diets I've ever heard of to be painfully honest.

    And completely unneccessary to achieve healthy nutrition!
    Since when has eating a balanced and varied doet become so Taboo??

  • Wynterbourne
    Wynterbourne Posts: 2,225 Member
    Christine_72 wrote: »
    jessef593 wrote: »
    Um.. Do you not consume any significant sources of fat or protein? All you need to be is in a caloric deficit. That sounds like one of the most ridiculous fad diets I've ever heard of to be painfully honest.

    And completely unneccessary to achieve healthy nutrition!
    Since when has eating a balanced and varied doet become so Taboo??

    Unfortunately, since someone decided making some fake studies proving their made up "healthy" weight loss scheme could make them some money.
  • canadianlbs
    canadianlbs Posts: 5,199 Member
    Annie_01 wrote: »
    Oh dang...now I want some of those! Just think if I had some of those green eggs to pair up with my brown. ham

    fixed that for you.

  • Traveler120
    Traveler120 Posts: 712 Member
    baristabeannz wrote: »
    ..... Has anyone tried raw till four or are you all assuming it's fad not a lifestyle?
    Like paleo, yes, it's a fad, even the RT4 diet's authors don't do it anymore.

    Does it work? Any diet will work if it creates a calorie deficit. This diet tells people that calories don't matter and that anything under 2100 is severely restricting and not recommended. Lots of girls bought into this BS, "smashed in the calories" and got fat. Then they were told it's part of the "recovery" from "metabolic damage" and that it can take years to recover. Good thing folks are seeing through the BS and realizing that you can't ignore calories and you can't eat the same amount as highly active people if you're not, and expect to be as skinny as them.

    If you want to eat vegan that's fine but instead of going by a Youtuber's fad diet, listen to the plant based experts like Dr. Michael Greger, Dr. John McDougall, Dr. Esselstyn, Dr. Neal Barnard, even Dr. Joel Furhman etc. If you're not going to eat animal protein, then you should eat plant proteins, mainly beans and lentils. Leafy greens and fruits aren't enough. And you want to be closer to 1g/kg so your 40g seems a bit low.
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
    Traveler120 wrote: »
    baristabeannz wrote: »
    ..... Has anyone tried raw till four or are you all assuming it's fad not a lifestyle?
    Like paleo, yes, it's a fad, even the RT4 diet's authors don't do it anymore.

    Does it work? Any diet will work if it creates a calorie deficit. This diet tells people that calories don't matter and that anything under 2100 is severely restricting and not recommended. Lots of girls bought into this BS, "smashed in the calories" and got fat. Then they were told it's part of the "recovery" from "metabolic damage" and that it can take years to recover. Good thing folks are seeing through the BS and realizing that you can't ignore calories and you can't eat the same amount as highly active people if you're not, and expect to be as skinny as them.

    If you want to eat vegan that's fine but instead of going by a Youtuber's fad diet, listen to the plant based experts like Dr. Michael Greger, Dr. John McDougall, Dr. Esselstyn, Dr. Neal Barnard, even Dr. Joel Furhman etc. If you're not going to eat animal protein, then you should eat plant proteins, mainly beans and lentils. Leafy greens and fruits aren't enough. And you want to be closer to 1g/kg so your 40g seems a bit low.

    I would be careful with McDougall (very low fat) and Furhman (very low fat, limits beans). Furhman's plan was actually what I was trying when I went very low fat years ago -- I felt sick, hungry, and miserable. It all went away when I added reasonable amounts of fat back into my diet. They both layer a lot of extra restrictions on top of plant-based eating (Esselstyn does too, I'm pretty sure). Unless one is trying to address another health issue that requires low fat eating or reducing sugar, there's not much compelling evidence that people on plant-based diets do better when they go very low fat or restrict sugar.

    For the general population, I would recommend the work of Jack Norris and Virginia Messina -- they're both RDs, long-term vegans, and practice evidence-based nutrition. Their book "Vegan for Life" contains tons of useful information for vegans, those considering the switch, or those who care for them (like parents).
  • Traveler120
    Traveler120 Posts: 712 Member
    @janejellyroll I just looked up Furhman and I don't see where he limits beans. They're one of his 'should eat' G-BOMBS >https://www.drfuhrman.com/learn/library/articles/29/the-healthiest-anti-cancer-foods-g-bombs

    Also, he recommends beans for diabetics >https://www.drfuhrman.com/learn/library/articles/62/clinical-study-confirms-that-beans-are-the-preferred-starch-source-for-diabetics

    I may be wrong but the other docs seem to say 'no oil' but not necessarily very low fat since some, including Furhman recommend nuts and seeds. I agree that unless there's a clinical need for a very low fat diet, I don't believe it's necessarily better.
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
    Traveler120 wrote: »
    @janejellyroll I just looked up Furhman and I don't see where he limits beans. They're one of his 'should eat' G-BOMBS >https://www.drfuhrman.com/learn/library/articles/29/the-healthiest-anti-cancer-foods-g-bombs

    Also, he recommends beans for diabetics >https://www.drfuhrman.com/learn/library/articles/62/clinical-study-confirms-that-beans-are-the-preferred-starch-source-for-diabetics

    I may be wrong but the other docs seem to say 'no oil' but not necessarily very low fat since some, including Furhman recommend nuts and seeds. I agree that unless there's a clinical need for a very low fat diet, I don't believe it's necessarily better.

    Maybe I'm mistaken, but I remember the quantities on the "Eat to Live" meal plan that I tried (for context about eight years ago) to be pretty low. That may be updated now or I may not remember the plan accurately.

    I disagree with Furhman and McDougall (and Esselyn) about the dangers of oils. At the end of the day, this just seems like a whole bunch of unnecessary restrictions to layer on top of veganism/plant-based dieting which is why I wouldn't recommend them to people who are seeking an evidence-based approach to vegan/plant-based nutrition.
  • Traveler120
    Traveler120 Posts: 712 Member
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    Traveler120 wrote: »
    @janejellyroll I just looked up Furhman and I don't see where he limits beans. They're one of his 'should eat' G-BOMBS >https://www.drfuhrman.com/learn/library/articles/29/the-healthiest-anti-cancer-foods-g-bombs

    Also, he recommends beans for diabetics >https://www.drfuhrman.com/learn/library/articles/62/clinical-study-confirms-that-beans-are-the-preferred-starch-source-for-diabetics

    I may be wrong but the other docs seem to say 'no oil' but not necessarily very low fat since some, including Furhman recommend nuts and seeds. I agree that unless there's a clinical need for a very low fat diet, I don't believe it's necessarily better.

    Maybe I'm mistaken, but I remember the quantities on the "Eat to Live" meal plan that I tried (for context about eight years ago) to be pretty low. That may be updated now or I may not remember the plan accurately.

    I disagree with Furhman and McDougall (and Esselyn) about the dangers of oils. At the end of the day, this just seems like a whole bunch of unnecessary restrictions to layer on top of veganism/plant-based dieting which is why I wouldn't recommend them to people who are seeking an evidence-based approach to vegan/plant-based nutrition.

    Fair enough. I'll check out the two RDs you mentioned.
This discussion has been closed.

Categories