I Just Paid For A BMR Test + Consultation and...

Kristopher25

I can't believe what I was told. The lady was extremely nice but as a paid professional at a major hospital I can't believe the information I got.

I felt like I've learned a lot reading the different topics and info on this site for the last four months and was excited to put it all together with her.

Instead, this is what I got:

-You need to build muscle mass when your dieting so you lose only fat.- When I mentioned how I thought it was impossible to gain muscle mass in a calorie deficit she looked at me dumbfounded and said that's absolutely untrue.

- You aren't eating vegetables and healthy only foods and that's why you're not losing - I pointed out that my calories have been consistant and my macros are pretty much in line with where they should be. I asked how my body could tell the difference between a good calorie and a bad one. She said that my body knows the difference and because I'm not eating healthy I'm not losing. ( I've seen this debate a lot in the forums. I'm a believer in the calories in, calories out side. I think healthy eating is a totally different subject).

- You're eating too much later in the day which is causing you not to lose weight - This one again contradicts everything I've learned on MFP. I mentioned how I didn't think your body had a 24 hour clock and it really shouldn't matter as long as there is consistancy over a period of time. She then said that eating more later in the day is a contributing factor to my weight.

- Your BMR is 1900 calories and you say you excersise an average of 250 calories a day. You shouldn't eat more than 2,100 calories a day. - I don't even know where to start with this one. I asked what my maintainence calories were and she looked at the screen and said 2,150. Really? Isn't that pretty much what I would burn doing absolutely nothing? - Nope, if you go over that you aren't going to lose weight. - I mentioned that I eat back all of my excersise calories as well. That got a big NO! She told me not to eat back ANY of my exercise calories. Actually told me I wasn't working out enough and to do 60 minutes minimum of strenuous workout activity 6 days a week. Won't I be below my B...M.... Never Mind.

O.k., oddly enough I've been exactly at 2,100 calories for 2 months now before I came to see you. I haven't lost a pound in the last two months. - That's because your not eating healthy and it looks like you are eating too much for dinner. - But I'm at 2,100 calor... Never mind.

O.k, how about this one. I lost and gained back 7 pounds the last three days. Any ideas? The gain put me right back to where I was 2 months ago. - That's from the heat. - Seriously?


So after all of this I left worse off than I started. I did get my BMR which is 1,900 calories but the test only consisted of me breathing into a machine for 5 minutes, so I'm not even sure how accurate that was.

Any ideas going forward to get the weight loss started again? Maintainance calories for a few weeks?

jwdieter

Well, you haven't lost weight in 2 months on 2100 with your exercise level.

She told you not to eat more than 2100 and to exercise more.

Shrugs on the rest, but that seems pretty on target.

devinbear

I would say keep doing what you are doing, exercising more and adjusting calories as needed. As for the rest of the info, I will say this. I know a lot of people in the medical and health profession who share misinformation. That is all.

AJ_G

-You need to build muscle mass when your dieting so you lose only fat.- When I mentioned how I thought it was impossible to gain muscle mass in a calorie deficit she looked at me dumbfounded and said that's absolutely untrue.

- You aren't eating vegetables and healthy only foods and that's why you're not losing - I pointed out that my calories have been consistant and my macros are pretty much in line with where they should be. I asked how my body could tell the difference between a good calorie and a bad one. She said that my body knows the difference and because I'm not eating healthy I'm not losing. ( I've seen this debate a lot in the forums. I'm a believer in the calories in, calories out side. I think healthy eating is a totally different subject).

- You're eating too much later in the day which is causing you not to lose weight - This one again contradicts everything I've learned on MFP. I mentioned how I didn't think your body had a 24 hour clock and it really shouldn't matter as long as there is consistancy over a period of time. She then said that eating more later in the day is a contributing factor to my weight.

- Your BMR is 1900 calories and you say you excersise an average of 250 calories a day. You shouldn't eat more than 2,100 calories a day. - I don't even know where to start with this one. I asked what my maintainence calories were and she looked at the screen and said 2,150. Really? Isn't that pretty much what I would burn doing absolutely nothing? - Nope, if you go over that you aren't going to lose weight. - I mentioned that I eat back all of my excersise calories as well. That got a big NO! She told me not to eat back ANY of my exercise calories. Actually told me I wasn't working out enough and to do 60 minutes minimum of strenuous workout activity 6 days a week. Won't I be below my B...M.... Never Mind.

O.k., oddly enough I've been exactly at 2,100 calories for 2 months now before I came to see you. I haven't lost a pound in the last two months. - That's because your not eating healthy and it looks like you are eating too much for dinner. - But I'm at 2,100 calor... Never mind.

O.k, how about this one. I lost and gained back 7 pounds the last three days. Any ideas? The gain put me right back to where I was 2 months ago. - That's from the heat. - Seriously?


So after all of this I left worse off than I started. I did get my BMR which is 1,900 calories but the test only consisted of me breathing into a machine for 5 minutes, so I'm not even sure how accurate that was.

Any ideas going forward to get the weight loss started again? Maintainance calories for a few weeks?

Based on what I bolded, she is very misguided and has very little knowledge about nutrition...

She doesn't understand the difference between Basal Metabolic Rate, Non Exercise Associated Thermogenesis, Exercise Associated Thermogenesis, and Total Day Energy Expenditure

Also, recalculate your TDEE and macros to make sure they're right, I can help you if you'd like, you can send me a PM

Briko3

Keep in mind that a lot of what goes around on this website was started a long time ago and passed on as gospel truth. When in doubt, past threads are brought up, and the word spreads until there are a lot of people saying that same thing and it tricks us in to thinking it's true. Here are some things, you need to consider.

1) You CAN gain some muscle if you're overweight and eating at a slight calorie deficit IF YOU EXERCISE. If you don't, your body gets rid of the tissue that burns the most calories (to conserve). Unfortunately, that's muscle. If you're exercising, your body sees the muscle as necessary and gets rid of a higher percentage of fat vs muscle. I can go in to the physiology of it, but you can gain SOME muscle IF you exercise AND have excess fat. It's obviously easier to gain muscle mass if you're not at a deficit and the amount you gain while at a deficit will be limited. If you feel like you're muscle mass is less than it should be, it might be worth it to work on that and concentrate on "cutting" later down the road.

2) Your body certainly DOES treat calories differently depending on what part of your day/night (circadian) cycle you are in. It has to do with which hormones are present during different parts of your cycle. This differs depending on the person, but hormone levels that cause fat storage, hunger, etc. vary throughout the day.

3) Calories of even the same macros are treated (slightly) differently by the body. A carb can come in long chains, medium chains and short chains, and your body processes them (and releases hormones differently) depending on which you're consuming. All digestible carbs end up as blood sugar, but there are a lot of hormones and pathways that get them there, and they differ from each other. Differences are also found in proteins (animal vs plant) and fats.

4) That machine you were breathing in measures metabolism byproducts (CO2, etc.) and is pretty accurate if you're at complete rest while breathing in to it.

I'm sure someone will flame me for this post. It's like speaking against someone's religion, but the truth is the truth.

anacsitham5

My rambling reply: Actually I was told pretty much the same thing when I went. I was trying to eat back my exercise calories too. If I had dessert or chips, I'd make sure that it didn't put me over for the day by cutting down on the "good for you" foods. I would walk at 4-5 mph for an hour 5 days a week. I'd have a small breakfast and my biggest meal was at supper/dinner. I maintained and sometimes gained, but no loss that I could really count.

My perspective was this: Did I want to continue being fat or did I realistically want to do something about it without making excuses or falling off the wagon. What I was doing wasn't working, so I gave her advice a try for 3 months. I stopped with the dessert and chips (except for one "very small" allowance on Sunday or a special occassion such as a birthday). My BMR is 2100. I do not eat back my exercise calories. I set my calories at 1299 (35 carbs/35 protein/30 fat). I try to eat my biggest meals by 1 pm and have a small healthy supper (no later than 7 pm - depending on my work schedule). No late night snacking (I got used to that faster than I thought it would.) I do 20-30 min workouts on my eliptical, which consists of a 3 min warm up on the eliptical and then I alternate 30 seconds as fast as I can go (without collapsing) and then 90 seconds slower (but not warm up slow-a good pace). I repeat this for a 14-minute duration, and then a 3-min cool down. I am more worn out with this workout than my previous hour walks/jogs.

Did it work for me? Yes, I am down 51 lbs. Is this right for everyone? I don't know, but it's worked for me. I have family & friends who do monthly liquid cleanses or drink hot tea made from honey & cinnamon powder. I don't do these. I do what's working for me. My sister has slim fast for breakfast and lunch, then she eats a healthy meal for her supper/dinner. She uses two slim fast protein bars for snacks (one morning, one afternoon). She walks one hour every day at about 3 mph. She is actually gaining weight and her clothes are tighter. She is frustrated and says "that's how the slim fast advertisements tell you how to eat." She goes over on sugars from the drinks and bars every single day.

Everyone is different. Everyone has an opinion (some strongly so). Everyone knows exactly what to do to succeed. What works for someone may not work the same way for you. I have a friend who eats special K (1/2 cup) with 10 blueberries and water (in place of milk). This is her breakfast and again for lunch. Yes she is a very tiny 5'4" and 95 lbs. Would I do that to lose? No way! She swears by it. If what you are doing isn't working, try something else. Give it at least a month. One week isn't enough time to see a difference from your body. Good luck and don't give up. You will figure out what works best for you!

Mia_RagazzaTosta

Bumping to follow..

inside_lap

Keep in mind that a lot of what goes around on this website was started a long time ago and passed on as gospel truth. When in doubt, past threads are brought up, and the word spreads until there are a lot of people saying that same thing and it tricks us in to thinking it's true. Here are some things, you need to consider.

1) You CAN gain some muscle if you're overweight and eating at a slight calorie deficit IF YOU EXERCISE. If you don't, your body gets rid of the tissue that burns the most calories (to conserve). Unfortunately, that's muscle. If you're exercising, your body sees the muscle as necessary and gets rid of a higher percentage of fat vs muscle. I can go in to the physiology of it, but you can gain SOME muscle IF you exercise AND have excess fat. It's obviously easier to gain muscle mass if you're not at a deficit and the amount you gain while at a deficit will be limited. If you feel like you're muscle mass is less than it should be, it might be worth it to work on that and concentrate on "cutting" later down the road.

2) Your body certainly DOES treat calories differently depending on what part of your day/night (circadian) cycle you are in. It has to do with which hormones are present during different parts of your cycle. This differs depending on the person, but hormone levels that cause fat storage, hunger, etc. vary throughout the day.

3) Calories of even the same macros are treated (slightly) differently by the body. A carb can come in long chains, medium chains and short chains, and your body processes them (and releases hormones differently) depending on which you're consuming. All digestible carbs end up as blood sugar, but there are a lot of hormones and pathways that get them there, and they differ from each other. Differences are also found in proteins (animal vs plant) and fats.

4) That machine you were breathing in measures metabolism byproducts (CO2, etc.) and is pretty accurate if you're at complete rest while breathing in to it.

I'm sure someone will flame me for this post. It's like speaking against someone's religion, but the truth is the truth.

This. Many people on MFP have no idea what they are talking about and just like to repeat what they're read ONLINE (vs reading real original research).

graysmom2005

Some of that seems like B.S. BUT we have a tendency here to listen to all the folks on MFP and ignore advice we get from actual professionals. Briko was right. Points of view here become gospel, even when they are false. I'd maybe do what she told you for a couple weeks and see where it takes you. :-)

stealthq

So after all of this I left worse off than I started. I did get my BMR which is 1,900 calories but the test only consisted of me breathing into a machine for 5 minutes, so I'm not even sure how accurate that was.

Doesn't this test your Resting Metabolic Rate and not your Basal Metabolic Rate? In that case, your maintenance really could be at 2,150, not counting exercise depending on your normal activity level. Sounds like she got her terminology backwards.

TribeHokie

1) You CAN gain some muscle if you're overweight and eating at a slight calorie deficit IF YOU EXERCISE. If you don't, your body gets rid of the tissue that burns the most calories (to conserve). Unfortunately, that's muscle. If you're exercising, your body sees the muscle as necessary and gets rid of a higher percentage of fat vs muscle. I can go in to the physiology of it, but you can gain SOME muscle IF you exercise AND have excess fat. It's obviously easier to gain muscle mass if you're not at a deficit and the amount you gain while at a deficit will be limited. If you feel like you're muscle mass is less than it should be, it might be worth it to work on that and concentrate on "cutting" later down the road.

This is the most clear and concise argument for more weight training and less cardio that I have ever seen (even if that's not necessarily what you were going for). I've gone through hundreds of inches v. scale threads but something in my head just clicked when I read this. Thanks.

As for what the consultation lady said, take it with a grain of salt and do what works best for you. Try something different.

norcal_yogi

gotta bump to comment later!

elvensnow

Keep in mind that a lot of what goes around on this website was started a long time ago and passed on as gospel truth. When in doubt, past threads are brought up, and the word spreads until there are a lot of people saying that same thing and it tricks us in to thinking it's true. Here are some things, you need to consider.

1) You CAN gain some muscle if you're overweight and eating at a slight calorie deficit IF YOU EXERCISE. If you don't, your body gets rid of the tissue that burns the most calories (to conserve). Unfortunately, that's muscle. If you're exercising, your body sees the muscle as necessary and gets rid of a higher percentage of fat vs muscle. I can go in to the physiology of it, but you can gain SOME muscle IF you exercise AND have excess fat. It's obviously easier to gain muscle mass if you're not at a deficit and the amount you gain while at a deficit will be limited. If you feel like you're muscle mass is less than it should be, it might be worth it to work on that and concentrate on "cutting" later down the road.

2) Your body certainly DOES treat calories differently depending on what part of your day/night (circadian) cycle you are in. It has to do with which hormones are present during different parts of your cycle. This differs depending on the person, but hormone levels that cause fat storage, hunger, etc. vary throughout the day.

3) Calories of even the same macros are treated (slightly) differently by the body. A carb can come in long chains, medium chains and short chains, and your body processes them (and releases hormones differently) depending on which you're consuming. All digestible carbs end up as blood sugar, but there are a lot of hormones and pathways that get them there, and they differ from each other. Differences are also found in proteins (animal vs plant) and fats.

4) That machine you were breathing in measures metabolism byproducts (CO2, etc.) and is pretty accurate if you're at complete rest while breathing in to it.

I'm sure someone will flame me for this post. It's like speaking against someone's religion, but the truth is the truth.

Not that I disagree with you, in fact I think most of what you say is pretty accurate, but I had to point out the irony in you claiming "truth" when you don't link to any articles yourself. How are we supposed to know what you're saying isn't the same nonsense you deride in the beginning? Point being, yes on the forums it's hard to separate truth from fiction, and even when you do research it's easy to find conflicting trials.

Also, as I understand it, breathing into a tube measures RMR (Resting Metabolic Rate), not BMR. BMR would be the laying in bed sleeping test. RMR is what you burn doing nothing all day (so calculate (RMR + exercise) * deficit = lose weight). However I'm no expert, so grain of salt.

Kristopher25

I agree that there is a lot of misinformation on here but all of the advice I took was from people who were successful on MFP and seconded by other successful members. Most seem to share these ideas:

1. Eat back your exercise calories
2. Calories in should be above BMR below TDEE (in my case TDEE being 2,950 - 3,550 depending on calculator)
3. Deficit = weightloss no matter what you eat
4. Never go below your BMR

Right now there are 230+ responses to the question of whether or not "eating dirty" stops weight loss and most seem to back up the no side. I'm just not sold that eating "clean" is the answer. I'm sure it works great for the people that do it and I'm not knocking it at all but a calorie deficit itself should be the main factor.

Kristopher25

Also, as I understand it, breathing into a tube measures RMR (Resting Metabolic Rate), not BMR. BMR would be the laying in bed sleeping test. RMR is what you burn doing nothing all day (so calculate (RMR + exercise) * deficit = lose weight). However I'm no expert, so grain of salt.

You're right. That was my mistake. Looking at the paperwork the test was for RMR not BMR. I remember something being said during the test being accurate 1%-2% of the other but I'm not sure if it's true or not.

SirBonerFart

sounds like she got her education on nutrition from a health magazine

TheCaren

I thought about going point by point about how far off the information you received is from everything I've learned in ten months. But I'll just leave it at this.

Can you get a refund? LOL

I went to a dietician because of issues with IBS and was hoping she could give me dietary advice on how to avoid symptoms. She had me write down all the food I ate and what symptoms I experienced for a whole week. She went through the list and pointed out all the items that could cause symptoms on my food list. Only problem is that on those days I experienced no symptoms. The fact they COULD cause symptoms is sort of irrelevant because they DIDN'T cause symptoms when I ate them. Just because they're an expert in their field doesn't mean they have all the answers all the time for every person.

Next....

Velum_cado

- You're eating too much later in the day which is causing you not to lose weight - This one again contradicts everything I've learned on MFP. I mentioned how I didn't think your body had a 24 hour clock and it really shouldn't matter as long as there is consistancy over a period of time. She then said that eating more later in the day is a contributing factor to my weight.

I'm no expert, but I take issue with this one. Most of my daily calorie intake happens after 5pm. I would have absolutely given up a long time ago if I couldn't have my big dinners. So far, I haven't had any trouble with this strategy.

K_Serz

sounds like she got her education on nutrition from a health magazine

The person she went to see watches Dr Oz AND Stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night.

ajaxe432

-You need to build muscle mass when your dieting so you lose only fat.- When I mentioned how I thought it was impossible to gain muscle mass in a calorie deficit she looked at me dumbfounded and said that's absolutely untrue.

- You aren't eating vegetables and healthy only foods and that's why you're not losing - I pointed out that my calories have been consistant and my macros are pretty much in line with where they should be. I asked how my body could tell the difference between a good calorie and a bad one. She said that my body knows the difference and because I'm not eating healthy I'm not losing. ( I've seen this debate a lot in the forums. I'm a believer in the calories in, calories out side. I think healthy eating is a totally different subject).

- You're eating too much later in the day which is causing you not to lose weight - This one again contradicts everything I've learned on MFP. I mentioned how I didn't think your body had a 24 hour clock and it really shouldn't matter as long as there is consistancy over a period of time. She then said that eating more later in the day is a contributing factor to my weight.

- Your BMR is 1900 calories and you say you excersise an average of 250 calories a day. You shouldn't eat more than 2,100 calories a day. - I don't even know where to start with this one. I asked what my maintainence calories were and she looked at the screen and said 2,150. Really? Isn't that pretty much what I would burn doing absolutely nothing? - Nope, if you go over that you aren't going to lose weight. - I mentioned that I eat back all of my excersise calories as well. That got a big NO! She told me not to eat back ANY of my exercise calories. Actually told me I wasn't working out enough and to do 60 minutes minimum of strenuous workout activity 6 days a week. Won't I be below my B...M.... Never Mind.

O.k., oddly enough I've been exactly at 2,100 calories for 2 months now before I came to see you. I haven't lost a pound in the last two months. - That's because your not eating healthy and it looks like you are eating too much for dinner. - But I'm at 2,100 calor... Never mind.

O.k, how about this one. I lost and gained back 7 pounds the last three days. Any ideas? The gain put me right back to where I was 2 months ago. - That's from the heat. - Seriously?


So after all of this I left worse off than I started. I did get my BMR which is 1,900 calories but the test only consisted of me breathing into a machine for 5 minutes, so I'm not even sure how accurate that was.

Any ideas going forward to get the weight loss started again? Maintainance calories for a few weeks?

Based on what I bolded, she is very misguided and has very little knowledge about nutrition...

She doesn't understand the difference between Basal Metabolic Rate, Non Exercise Associated Thermogenesis, Exercise Associated Thermogenesis, and Total Day Energy Expenditure

Also, recalculate your TDEE and macros to make sure they're right, I can help you if you'd like, you can send me a PM

Totally agree....thinking she may be knew to the field or just does not care. It seems she is using alot of biased opinions.

JUDDDing

1. Eat back your exercise calories
2. Calories in should be above BMR below TDEE (in my case TDEE being 2,950 - 3,550 depending on calculator)
3. Deficit = weightloss no matter what you eat
4. Never go below your BMR

Keep in mind that there are lots of people with lots of different situations and goals on here. My 2 cents.

1. Eat some of them if you feel hungry. IMO, even with a HRM, you are not going to be completely precise. Eating all of your overestimated exercise calories seems like a good way to stall.
2. Not as big of a deal as people make it. Fat is stored energy. Your body will tap into this energy when it needs it. Don't eat below your BMR is critical info for super skinny people - people with actual fat to lose can be much more loose about it.
3. Pretty much - there are probably some factors that can adjust the degree a bit, but that's how it works.
4. See 2.