Lifting question from total newb
Morriganmum
Posts: 37 Member
I've started using the weight machine in the gym. I'm focusing on my shoulders/arms, as I am trying to improve my posture and have more upper-body strength in general. When I am lifting, should I set it to the weight I can just barely move and do reps until I just can't do them any more? Should I aim for being sore (DOMS) or so sore I can barely move? How many times per week should I be lifting? Should I lift even if I have DOMS, or wait until the DOMS is faded?
If it matters, I am female, middle-aged, low end of healthy weight and trying to gain.
Thanks for any guidance!!
If it matters, I am female, middle-aged, low end of healthy weight and trying to gain.
Thanks for any guidance!!
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Replies
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Howdy, shoot for 8-12 reps. If you get to 12 and it's easy then weight is too low if you can't get to 8 then it's too high.3
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I would add back and chest training to help your posture and upper body strength.... And legs because, well.... You don't want to fall over from being top heavy
I don't get DOMS... It doesn't mean you're training hard enough/growing - I recover quite quickly and never been one to hobble out of the gym after a heavy leg session. If you're training with a 4 day split (for example), you have sufficient time to rest each body part in between workouts. If you do get doms, moving around will probably help you.0 -
OP: You don't even mention what kind of arm/shoulder lifting you're doing.
There are all kinds of lifts you "could" do for upper body work and how many reps to do isn't the 1st thing you need to consider.
The best suggestion I can give you is to discuss your goals with a trainer at your gym, who can help you design a program that best meets those goals as well as make you aware of other things you can or should be doing instead.0 -
OP: You don't even mention what kind of arm/shoulder lifting you're doing.
There are all kinds of lifts you "could" do for upper body work and how many reps to do isn't the 1st thing you need to consider.
The best suggestion I can give you is to discuss your goals with a trainer at your gym, who can help you design a program that best meets those goals as well as make you aware of other things you can or should be doing instead.
Ha! I have no idea what they are called. I'll try to look them up. Meanwhile, no trainer at gym, it is just the weight room available to me.0 -
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You need to get on a linear progression weight lifting program. If your available weight room has the equipment, I would suggest Starting Strength or Stronglifts 5x5, but there are other programs. The great thing about being a newbie, newbie gains, so get on a program and take advantage of it.0
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Morriganmum wrote: »
Always multiple. Do 3-5, last set should be difficult but still doable.1 -
BrianKMcFalls wrote: »You need to get on a linear progression weight lifting program. If your available weight room has the equipment, I would suggest Starting Strength or Stronglifts 5x5, but there are other programs. The great thing about being a newbie, newbie gains, so get on a program and take advantage of it.
Definitely this.0 -
The most effective programs are going to focus on compound lifts (OHP, Bench, Squat and Deadlift). If you are looking to get maximize your results, get on a program like the ones found in the below link. Compound lifts will engage the maximum amount of muscles with the least amount of time spent in a gym. As noted above, linear progression will force you to get stronger, which gives you a better opportunity to gain muscle as you gain weight.
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10332083/which-lifting-program-is-the-best-for-you/p12 -
Morriganmum wrote: »OP: You don't even mention what kind of arm/shoulder lifting you're doing.
There are all kinds of lifts you "could" do for upper body work and how many reps to do isn't the 1st thing you need to consider.
The best suggestion I can give you is to discuss your goals with a trainer at your gym, who can help you design a program that best meets those goals as well as make you aware of other things you can or should be doing instead.
Ha! I have no idea what they are called. I'll try to look them up. Meanwhile, no trainer at gym, it is just the weight room available to me.
No, actually, I won't look them up, because what movements I'm making isn't the question, the question is basically the best way to build muscle. No matter where, no matter which movements.0 -
What do you mean by this? Newbie gains?BrianKMcFalls wrote: »The great thing about being a newbie, newbie gains, so get on a program and take advantage of it.
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Morriganmum wrote: »I've started using the weight machine in the gym. I'm focusing on my shoulders/arms, as I am trying to improve my posture and have more upper-body strength in general. When I am lifting, should I set it to the weight I can just barely move and do reps until I just can't do them any more? Should I aim for being sore (DOMS) or so sore I can barely move? How many times per week should I be lifting? Should I lift even if I have DOMS, or wait until the DOMS is faded?
If it matters, I am female, middle-aged, low end of healthy weight and trying to gain.
Thanks for any guidance!!
Sounds like you should hire a trainer, remember you're interviewing them for a job more or less don't feel pressured to sign up with any of them.2 -
Morriganmum wrote: »Morriganmum wrote: »OP: You don't even mention what kind of arm/shoulder lifting you're doing.
There are all kinds of lifts you "could" do for upper body work and how many reps to do isn't the 1st thing you need to consider.
The best suggestion I can give you is to discuss your goals with a trainer at your gym, who can help you design a program that best meets those goals as well as make you aware of other things you can or should be doing instead.
Ha! I have no idea what they are called. I'll try to look them up. Meanwhile, no trainer at gym, it is just the weight room available to me.
No, actually, I won't look them up, because what movements I'm making isn't the question, the question is basically the best way to build muscle. No matter where, no matter which movements.
For the best results, you will want to work with an established program...and yes, the movements matter. Focusing solely on isolation movements is far from optimal...your body doesn't work in isolation so why train it that way.
That's not to say that isolation movements don't have their place...they do...but generally, they shouldn't be the foundation of your programming. Pretty much any legitimate lifting program is going to have it's foundation in compound movements and/or variations of those movements as these movements work your entire body all at once, including your core which will help with posture more so than focusing on shoulders and arms in isolation.
There are numerous beginner programs out there depending on what your goals are...most of these are full body 3x per week...and that's another thing...you don't want to lift everyday...the magic happens with rest and recovery. You could do a split, but I don't really recommend that for a newbie...or really for anyone outside of bodybuilders or physique competitors (or those that want that look) who need that kind of volume in their programming.
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^agreed
If nothing else, you could hire @SideSteel just for programming based on your goals and what you have available.0 -
Morriganmum wrote: »Morriganmum wrote: »OP: You don't even mention what kind of arm/shoulder lifting you're doing.
There are all kinds of lifts you "could" do for upper body work and how many reps to do isn't the 1st thing you need to consider.
The best suggestion I can give you is to discuss your goals with a trainer at your gym, who can help you design a program that best meets those goals as well as make you aware of other things you can or should be doing instead.
Ha! I have no idea what they are called. I'll try to look them up. Meanwhile, no trainer at gym, it is just the weight room available to me.
No, actually, I won't look them up, because what movements I'm making isn't the question, the question is basically the best way to build muscle. No matter where, no matter which movements.
Then the correct answer is "It depends". Or as Lyle McDonald might say, the correct answer is "a mallard". Because context matters.2 -
I weight 124 I'm 5'2 my age 41 and I'm a female
I'm trying to tone up what will be my in take in protein, carbs, and fats how many calories should I intake. And what supplements will help me build muscle tone?
Michelle1 -
Morriganmum - I've been lifting on and off for 30 years, and turn 60 this weekend. Let me give you some different/additional suggestions to what I'm seeing here from others. First, if you are truly middle-aged, you need to take into consideration the increased risk of hurting yourself. Whatever you do, get a couple sets of warm ups in. I start with a very light weight, 10 or 15 pounds, just to get my joints and tendons working. A second warm up set with about half the normal weight follows. I also do some stretching for certain exercises - especially shoulders as I have one that is a bit balky with some rotator cuff damage that doesn't like the strain of pull-ups.
Second, if you're just getting started, I suggest not going super heavy. Work up to it. The old 8-12 reps rule leans towards the higher side when you're starting out, especially as we age. Spend the first few weeks more in the 12 or 12-15 rep range to get started. See how your body reacts as you see how many days a week you want to do this.
Third, if you really want to build some muscles, you gotta eat protein. The science is very clear on this. If you want to get stronger and add muscle, really focus on protein. In heavy lifting cycles, I usually eat 3-4 eggs after working out in the morning. Have several glasses of milk during the day, and focus on higher-protein percentage lunches and dinners. Get rid of the wasted carb calories such as breads, white rice, potatoes, etc. And, as celebrity trainer Harley Pasternak likes to say, "all the vegetables you can eat". If you're middle aged and your metabolism has slowed down, I don't recommend any of the powders or mixes. While they have great protein, they're usually too many calories. Those are made for 20-year-old guys who are trying to get bigger.
Fourth, certain exercises will have greater impact on your overall physique. For example, pull-ups will have a tremendous impact on your body shape. If you want to look athletic, it's my #1 recommendation. They will broaden your shoulders and give you more of that athletic V-shape that makes men and women both look more attractive. But many people don't, as they're hard to do - especially for women or people who have never really done much before. You can use a pull-down machine at the gym, or some have assisted pull-up machines. Thirdly, you can always ask some cute guy to cup your ankle while you push off a bit to help you pull-up on the bar. Also, as we age and sit at our desks all day, I find that many people's lower backs have become weak. Partially bent rows are great for getting your back and abs stronger. Beyond that, you should look to lift weights with all the major muscle groups of your body, alternating days and resting or mixing in other activities on those off days. I cycle and hike to get exercise on the off-lifting days.
My final bit of advice is to read. Get a subscription to one or two of the bodybuilding magazines such as Flex. It's over the top for what you want, but in just a few months' issues will teach you a lot - including different exercises and nutrition to add muscle. I would recommend Flex over other pubs such as Shape and Womens' Health, which really don't focus on weight lifting.
Get started, but take it easy. You don't need a trainer, but you do need to 'listen' to your body. It will tell you what's too much or when to take a break.2 -
Morriganmum wrote: »Morriganmum wrote: »OP: You don't even mention what kind of arm/shoulder lifting you're doing.
There are all kinds of lifts you "could" do for upper body work and how many reps to do isn't the 1st thing you need to consider.
The best suggestion I can give you is to discuss your goals with a trainer at your gym, who can help you design a program that best meets those goals as well as make you aware of other things you can or should be doing instead.
Ha! I have no idea what they are called. I'll try to look them up. Meanwhile, no trainer at gym, it is just the weight room available to me.
No, actually, I won't look them up, because what movements I'm making isn't the question, the question is basically the best way to build muscle. No matter where, no matter which movements.
What if the "best" way to build muscle is movement dependent?4 -
Morriganmum wrote: »Morriganmum wrote: »OP: You don't even mention what kind of arm/shoulder lifting you're doing.
There are all kinds of lifts you "could" do for upper body work and how many reps to do isn't the 1st thing you need to consider.
The best suggestion I can give you is to discuss your goals with a trainer at your gym, who can help you design a program that best meets those goals as well as make you aware of other things you can or should be doing instead.
Ha! I have no idea what they are called. I'll try to look them up. Meanwhile, no trainer at gym, it is just the weight room available to me.
No, actually, I won't look them up, because what movements I'm making isn't the question, the question is basically the best way to build muscle. No matter where, no matter which movements.
The best way to build muscle is to do a variety of exercises that work different muscle groups, with adequate rest/recovery time in between. The number of reps/sets you do for one exercise doesn't matter as much as the overall picture of the routine. If you've been on MFP for awhile you may have heard people talk about the overall diet being more important than any one food choice, and it's the same for exercise. Just like eating one serving of kale per day won't make you healthy, focusing on one shoulder exercise won't make you strong.
In your OP, you asked about whether you should do such a heavy weight that you can barely move it, and you asked about whether you should be so sore afterward that you can't move. For the sake of your joints I hope you're trolling, but I'm going to assume that you're not. Those are both TERRIBLE ideas (unless you're trying to hurt yourself, in which case carry on). Pain and extreme fatigue are signals that you should stop what you're doing, especially when you're new and aren't quite sure where the line between soreness and injury is. As a beginner, you should be aiming for weights that are slightly challenging but that you can move with good form on every rep. It's okay to have more difficulty toward the end of the set than at the beginning, but you should still be able to move the weight comfortably. If you feel DOMS, it should be relatively mild to moderate, and it feel better with movement. (So it's okay if you feel sore in the morning or after sitting for awhile but feel better as the day goes on or as you move more).
The good news is that there are TONS of beginner lifting programs that will take all of the guesswork out of this for you. You should find one and follow it; you'll get all the benefits of working with an expert and will be much more likely to reach your goals without hurting yourself.1 -
In the original post you said your focus was more on strength (improved posture and upper body strength) than building muscle mass.
For strength you should go lower reps. Do some warm ups with a weight that you can do 10- 15 times and then do 3 sets with a weight that's so heavy you're barely able to get 5 reps.
Moving more weight makes you stronger faster than moving lighter weight more times and therefore will have a faster greater effect on your posture and over-all upper body strength.
If you have injuries, or joint pain, go back to the lighter weights and greater number of reps. You will get stronger this way, it's just not as effective as lower reps.
And as a guy above me said - eat your protein. That's almost as important as the lifting.0 -
Newbie gains are improvements in strength and size based mostly on being a newcomer who usually is going to experience immediate results no matter what they do....even when their methods and training style are not necessarily optimal.Morriganmum wrote: »
What do you mean by this? Newbie gains?BrianKMcFalls wrote: »The great thing about being a newbie, newbie gains, so get on a program and take advantage of it.
find a good introductory program and off you go. I can spew my opinion on what methods are best but it does depend on what you are searching for.
Good luck
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You're not training hard enough if you don't get sore the next day or 2.... or 3.livingleanlivingclean wrote: »I don't get DOMS...
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You're not training hard enough if you don't get sore the next day or 2.... or 3.livingleanlivingclean wrote: »I don't get DOMS...
Bollocks4 -
You're not training hard enough if you don't get sore the next day or 2.... or 3.livingleanlivingclean wrote: »I don't get DOMS...
Have you seen me train?
Doms is not a measure of whether you've trained hard enough or not.1 -
You're not training hard enough if you don't get sore the next day or 2.... or 3.livingleanlivingclean wrote: »I don't get DOMS...
Soreness is not the desired outcome, adaptation is.
It's possible to make progress without soreness.2 -
livingleanlivingclean wrote: »
You're not training hard enough if you don't get sore the next day or 2.... or 3.livingleanlivingclean wrote: »I don't get DOMS...
Have you seen me train?
Doms is not a measure of whether you've trained hard enough or not.
I'm not entirely sure what DOMS are but what I do know is that if you never get sore then your training like a little *kitten*. Either that or you're doing crossfit.0 -
livingleanlivingclean wrote: »
You're not training hard enough if you don't get sore the next day or 2.... or 3.livingleanlivingclean wrote: »I don't get DOMS...
Have you seen me train?
Doms is not a measure of whether you've trained hard enough or not.
I'm not entirely sure what DOMS are but what I do know is that if you never get sore then your training like a little *kitten*. Either that or you're doing crossfit.
I do neither. Go educate yourself.1 -
Hmm... Interesting perspectives.. Notlivingleanlivingclean wrote: »
You're not training hard enough if you don't get sore the next day or 2.... or 3.livingleanlivingclean wrote: »I don't get DOMS...
Have you seen me train?
Doms is not a measure of whether you've trained hard enough or not.
I'm not entirely sure what DOMS are but what I do know is that if you never get sore then your training like a little *kitten*. Either that or you're doing crossfit.
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chromekodi wrote: »livingleanlivingclean wrote: »
You're not training hard enough if you don't get sore the next day or 2.... or 3.livingleanlivingclean wrote: »I don't get DOMS...
Have you seen me train?
Doms is not a measure of whether you've trained hard enough or not.
I'm not entirely sure what DOMS are but what I do know is that if you never get sore then your training like a little *kitten*. Either that or you're doing crossfit.
Doesn't know what DOMS is but says if you're not sore, you're training like a *kitten*.
Okay there...3 -
livingleanlivingclean wrote: »
You're not training hard enough if you don't get sore the next day or 2.... or 3.livingleanlivingclean wrote: »I don't get DOMS...
Have you seen me train?
Doms is not a measure of whether you've trained hard enough or not.
I'm not entirely sure what DOMS are but what I do know is that if you never get sore then your training like a little *kitten*. Either that or you're doing crossfit.
LOL, that's hilarious. Claims you must get sore, doesn't know what DOMS is.
OP, since you asked about getting sore, my two cents: when starting a new program, ease into it. Lift light and give your body a week or so to adjust before you increase to a working load. Some people get sore, some people don't, but you don't want to make yourself so sore you skip your scheduled workouts. How much you lift, how many reps you do, and how many times a week you work out should be determined by the progressive program you're following. If you're not following a progressive program yet, check out this link for ideas:
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10332083/which-lifting-program-is-the-best-for-you/p11
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