Is it time for recomp?
trudie_b
Posts: 230 Member
Okay, help me decide if it's time for me to begin a recomp, or if I need to lose more weight first. Here are my stats:
5'10", 147lbs (I have a small frame though, for example my wrists are 5.5"), 34/26/38. As you can see from that, I carry my weight more in my lower body. My scales say I'm 26% body fat, but as well as being a generally unreliable way of measuring it, I've read that if you carry more weight in your lower body, the reading will be higher than what your total body average is. I've used the army tape test, that says 22%, and comparing myself to photos of body fat %, I'd estimate I'm about 24/25%. You can see my ribs a bit, as well as my upper abs and obliques, but I have a little fat over my lower belly still, and fat on my hips and thighs.
Originally my weight goal was 150, but I reset it at 140 when I got there because I felt I still had too much body fat at 150. But I don't want my upper body to get too skinny in the pursuit of a slimmer lower body, and I also don't want the results of my weight training to be compromised, so now I don't know......
5'10", 147lbs (I have a small frame though, for example my wrists are 5.5"), 34/26/38. As you can see from that, I carry my weight more in my lower body. My scales say I'm 26% body fat, but as well as being a generally unreliable way of measuring it, I've read that if you carry more weight in your lower body, the reading will be higher than what your total body average is. I've used the army tape test, that says 22%, and comparing myself to photos of body fat %, I'd estimate I'm about 24/25%. You can see my ribs a bit, as well as my upper abs and obliques, but I have a little fat over my lower belly still, and fat on my hips and thighs.
Originally my weight goal was 150, but I reset it at 140 when I got there because I felt I still had too much body fat at 150. But I don't want my upper body to get too skinny in the pursuit of a slimmer lower body, and I also don't want the results of my weight training to be compromised, so now I don't know......
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Replies
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If you don't know then maintain your weight and recomp while you decide - nothing you do now commits you forever.
Also learning your current maintenance calorie level is useful information for whatever you decide to do in future.6 -
Calipers measured my bf as 21%.......0
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A current photo would probably help but I think it sounds like recomp time from stats.0
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30kgin2017 wrote: »A current photo would probably help but I think it sounds like recomp time from stats.
You're right! I'll try and muster up the courage to take one.
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Whether you share the photo or not take one/several (and measurements).30kgin2017 wrote: »A current photo would probably help but I think it sounds like recomp time from stats.
You're right! I'll try and muster up the courage to take one.
Muscle building in general is a slow process and changes can be really subtle to spot and having a point in time to look back on can be very useful.
Make the pose (poses) and lighting consistent and repeatable for comparison.
At 21%BF and together with....
I can't really see a good reason not to switch to maintenance and recomp.But I don't want my upper body to get too skinny in the pursuit of a slimmer lower body, and I also don't want the results of my weight training to be compromised.
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I just finished a slow bulk and gained 5lbs over 8 months. I'm now interested in a recomp from here bc I hate dieting!!
I second that you should try a recomp also.0 -
I've been reading that modest calorie cycling is a good way to recomp - eating at maintenance (or slightly above) on weight training days, but 10% under maintenance on non-weight days (even if you still do another form of workout, i.e. cardio). I'm interested in trying this, but what I'm wondering is, should I attempt to deduct any calories from the days total for my weight training session? If not, I'm not eating at maintenance, right? But if so, how can I know what I burned? I don't lift very heavy yet, but I work seriously hard, circuit style training, I'm totally wiped by the end of an hour.0
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I've been reading that modest calorie cycling is a good way to recomp - eating at maintenance (or slightly above) on weight training days, but 10% under maintenance on non-weight days (even if you still do another form of workout, i.e. cardio). I'm interested in trying this, but what I'm wondering is, should I attempt to deduct any calories from the days total for my weight training session? If not, I'm not eating at maintenance, right? But if so, how can I know what I burned? I don't lift very heavy yet, but I work seriously hard, circuit style training, I'm totally wiped by the end of an hour.
IMHO calorie cycling is a needless complication - never seen anything reputable to show that it actually results in better results than not cycling calories. It seems to be based on pretty shaky and unfounded assumptions bordering on bro science and the supposed benefits never seem to be tested let alone quantified.
If it suits you then go for it but I wouldn't feel compelled to make it more complicated than it needs to be.
For strength training and circuit training then the MFP categories based on duration are very convenient and as there's no actual way to measure calorie burns during these types of training they are as good a starting point as any. You never really "know what you burn" but your weight change over an extended period of time acts as a feedback loop to allow you to make adjustments to correct both food and exercise logging inaccuracy.1 -
Thank you!1
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Okay, this is freaking me out. I'm used to eating at a deficit, and eating my maintenance calories feels really scary. I'm slightly panicking, for one thing, that I've calculated it wrong. Help, someone!!
I've selected lightly active, but turned off the option to deduct exercise calories. I do an hour of weight training (circuit style) 4 times a week, and 2 x 45 minute cardio sessions (with some HIIT thrown in) on the other days. I don't have an active job, but I generally hit 10,000 steps a day (although this does include my workout time). I'm 5'10, small frame, getting more muscular, and I weigh 147lb. Body fat is approx 21% (I think it might be a bit more, but not much).
With those settings, MFP is calculating my maintenance at 1980. Doesnt that seem high? I'm used to aiming for 1500-1600!
I really want to get this right, my main goal right now is increasing muscle and strength. But I've worked so hard to lose weight, I don't want to put fat on (I'm not bothered about lbs).0 -
High?With those settings, MFP is calculating my maintenance at 1980. Doesnt that seem high? I'm used to aiming for 1500-1600!
Not at all when you are an active 5'10 woman exercising - especially as the commonly stated average maintenance for a woman is c.2000cals. You are way above average height.
What was your rate of loss at 1600 cals? If you where losing a pound every ten days then 1950 would be a good guess for maintenance.
Alternatively add up all your calories eaten for last 30 days, add 3500 for each pound lost and divide the total by 30 to get a good maintenance estimate that compensates for logging inaccuracies.
Or yet another alternative, walk your calories up week by week rather than jump them straight up, you might find that takes away some anxiety.
Don't freak out, don't panic - and breathe!!
It's just a numbers game really so try to think "data" not "emotion". It can take a while, months not weeks, to find your true maintenance calories. Do try not to react to short term fluctuations - search for the trend and make small adjustments. You also need an acceptable maintenance range not one single number.
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High?With those settings, MFP is calculating my maintenance at 1980. Doesnt that seem high? I'm used to aiming for 1500-1600!
Not at all when you are an active 5'10 woman exercising - especially as the commonly stated average maintenance for a woman is c.2000cals. You are way above average height.
What was your rate of loss at 1600 cals? If you where losing a pound every ten days then 1950 would be a good guess for maintenance.
Alternatively add up all your calories eaten for last 30 days, add 3500 for each pound lost and divide the total by 30 to get a good maintenance estimate that compensates for logging inaccuracies.
Or yet another alternative, walk your calories up week by week rather than jump them straight up, you might find that takes away some anxiety.
Don't freak out, don't panic - and breathe!!
It's just a numbers game really so try to think "data" not "emotion". It can take a while, months not weeks, to find your true maintenance calories. Do try not to react to short term fluctuations - search for the trend and make small adjustments. You also need an acceptable maintenance range not one single number.
I love reading your posts and comments...always very informative!!
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Don't freak out, don't panic - and breathe!!
It's just a numbers game really so try to think "data" not "emotion". It can take a while, months not weeks, to find your true maintenance calories. Do try not to react to short term fluctuations - search for the trend and make small adjustments. You also need an acceptable maintenance range not one single number.
Thank you again, and for being so patient too!
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IMHO calorie cycling is a needless complication - never seen anything reputable to show that it actually results in better results than not cycling calories. It seems to be based on pretty shaky and unfounded assumptions bordering on bro science and the supposed benefits never seem to be tested let alone quantified.
I've been wondering about this a lot lately. It doesn't make sense to me. If I'm going to eat more on some days than others, it seems like those should be the days after I lift, or maybe starting that evening, when my body is repairing and rebuilding the muscle tissue. And then the idea that I should eat in a way that doesn't actually change my overall calorie input, it seems like I'm trying to trick something that can't be fooled. But most articles I've found so far claim that calorie cycling is the key to recomp.0 -
I recomp with a slight deficit. I am 5'8", 142. I eat around 1,800-1,900 per day with a maintenance calculation of 2,050-2,100.0
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OP - you might like this article by Bret Contreras....
https://bretcontreras.com/to-bulk-and-cut-or-not/
Interesting look at both the physical and emotional aspects.
@NorthCascades
You might like it too regarding the diet/calories side of things.
"As I mentioned previously, many of my female clients nowadays show up to me weighing the appropriate amount – they’re already at their ideal bodyweight. Their caloric intake is appropriate for their goals, and therefore I don’t address their nutrition much, except to verify that they are consuming ample amounts of protein.
I really agree with the focus on training, training, training and oh yes - eat the right amount of protein and calories.
One thing not addressed in the article is the cutting/bulking impact on current exercise performance which is of interest to you and me I'm sure.
My cycle training/recovery/performance is worse when I'm in a deficit and I really don't want to be carrying even more weight up hills by bulking (I'm already pretty awful at hill climbing...).
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@sijomial
First, thanks for the link. I'm reading it now, over my lunch break. I've read a few articles lately about recomp, when you ask Google, it's hard to separate the wheat from the chaff in what it brings back. One thing that distinguishes this article from the many others I've seen so far is references to actual research.
I went on a bulk last summer, pretty much for the reasons you mentioned. I want to build more muscle (still), but, also, I do a lot of long and tough rides in the summer. I grew some muscle, but a belly to go with it, and now I'm trying to lose the fat but keep the muscle. And I'm thinking a recomp might be a better option for me.
Here's a quote from the last article I read on the subject:The first rule of recomp is to eat a caloric surplus on workout days and a caloric deficit on non-workout days.
The second rule of recomp is eat a caloric surplus on workout days and a caloric deficit on non-workout days.
...
The third rule of recomp is to lift weights three or four times a week. Don’t lift more than four days a week. Remember, you’re eating a caloric surplus on your workout days, so working out more often would turn this recomp into a bulk.
...
The fourth rule of recomp is that every exercise other than weightlifting is optional and thusly doesn’t count as a workout day. A little jogging or playing soccer with your friends, can be great ways to burn some extra calories on non-workout days, but they don’t earn you the right to eat more.
The fifth rule is to utilize some form of intermittent fasting. Personally I’m a fan of daily 16/8 fasting, plus a 24-hour fasts the day after a cheat day, but find a fasting protocol that works with your body and your schedule.
The sixth rule is to get at least seven hours of sleep a night. Sleeping helps with both fat loss and muscle growth. It’s a win-win, so make sure you nail this.
Those are the basics.
That's a lot of rules, and a lot of complication about when you can eat. Rule 4 is a deal breaker. Last Saturday I spent more than 4 hours skiing up and down a mountain, and burned somewhere in the ballpark of 2,500 calories. I'm an endurance athlete and I prefer spending my time outdoors.
Do I simply need to come in around maintenance and stick with a progressive resistance program?0 -
OP - you might like this article by Bret Contreras....
https://bretcontreras.com/to-bulk-and-cut-or-not/
Interesting look at both the physical and emotional aspects.
@NorthCascades
You might like it too regarding the diet/calories side of things.
"As I mentioned previously, many of my female clients nowadays show up to me weighing the appropriate amount – they’re already at their ideal bodyweight. Their caloric intake is appropriate for their goals, and therefore I don’t address their nutrition much, except to verify that they are consuming ample amounts of protein.
I really agree with the focus on training, training, training and oh yes - eat the right amount of protein and calories.
One thing not addressed in the article is the cutting/bulking impact on current exercise performance which is of interest to you and me I'm sure.
My cycle training/recovery/performance is worse when I'm in a deficit and I really don't want to be carrying even more weight up hills by bulking (I'm already pretty awful at hill climbing...).
That's really interesting, and very relevant actually, because I've really wimped out on trying recomp right now. I just don't feel ready.1 -
@NorthCascadesNorthCascades wrote: »@sijomial
First, thanks for the link. I'm reading it now, over my lunch break. I've read a few articles lately about recomp, when you ask Google, it's hard to separate the wheat from the chaff in what it brings back. One thing that distinguishes this article from the many others I've seen so far is references to actual research.
I went on a bulk last summer, pretty much for the reasons you mentioned. I want to build more muscle (still), but, also, I do a lot of long and tough rides in the summer. I grew some muscle, but a belly to go with it, and now I'm trying to lose the fat but keep the muscle. And I'm thinking a recomp might be a better option for me.
Here's a quote from the last article I read on the subject:The first rule of recomp is to eat a caloric surplus on workout days and a caloric deficit on non-workout days.
The second rule of recomp is eat a caloric surplus on workout days and a caloric deficit on non-workout days.
...
The third rule of recomp is to lift weights three or four times a week. Don’t lift more than four days a week. Remember, you’re eating a caloric surplus on your workout days, so working out more often would turn this recomp into a bulk.
...
The fourth rule of recomp is that every exercise other than weightlifting is optional and thusly doesn’t count as a workout day. A little jogging or playing soccer with your friends, can be great ways to burn some extra calories on non-workout days, but they don’t earn you the right to eat more.
The fifth rule is to utilize some form of intermittent fasting. Personally I’m a fan of daily 16/8 fasting, plus a 24-hour fasts the day after a cheat day, but find a fasting protocol that works with your body and your schedule.
The sixth rule is to get at least seven hours of sleep a night. Sleeping helps with both fat loss and muscle growth. It’s a win-win, so make sure you nail this.
Those are the basics.
That's a lot of rules, and a lot of complication about when you can eat. Rule 4 is a deal breaker. Last Saturday I spent more than 4 hours skiing up and down a mountain, and burned somewhere in the ballpark of 2,500 calories. I'm an endurance athlete and I prefer spending my time outdoors.
Do I simply need to come in around maintenance and stick with a progressive resistance program?
The bold is exactly all I do. In fact when I started training that's all virtually everyone apart from serious body builders did - and that was a tiny niche.
I train 6 or 7 days a week, 3 strength and 3 or 4 cardio workouts (vast majority is cycling or cycle related).
My strength training is a bit compromised by my cycling as often I'm preparing for or recovering from a ride so I do very little lower body / leg strength work plus I'm limited by knee and lower back injuries anyway.
None of that stops me from recomping.
Agree that rule #4 is the most comical, my longest ride last summer was a very hilly 9 hour ride - not a workout day at all.... Sure.
Written by someone who thinks recomp needs to be forced and nurtured rather than being a natural and normal process in response to training stimulus.
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If you are so afraid that you'll gain fat overnight raise your cals little by little let your body adjust and find your "sweet" spot where you can maintain and train hard
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If you are so afraid that you'll gain fat overnight raise your cals little by little let your body adjust and find your "sweet" spot where you can maintain and train hard
I'm not afraid that I'll gain fat, I just find it hard to accept that I can lose the fat I want to lose by doing recomp. I tried to take some photos for this thread to get opinions, but came to the conclusion that my body fat is still too high (below my waist) to attempt this yet.
This is new territory for me, I've never lost this much weight, or got so close to my goal before, and I really don't want to mess it up.
I think I'm still benefiting from newbie gains, since I only started seriously weight lifting 4 months ago. I'm definitely building visible muscle, as well as improving in strength. I would like to be able to eat more, I feel like I'm hungry all the time, but I don't want to derail so close to goal. So I'm going to keep going at deficit until I hit 140lbs (I'm 146 now), at which point I will have lost 70lbs. I'm thinking by then newbie gains will have slowed, and I'll commit myself to recomp.
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If you are so afraid that you'll gain fat overnight raise your cals little by little let your body adjust and find your "sweet" spot where you can maintain and train hard
I'm not afraid that I'll gain fat, I just find it hard to accept that I can lose the fat I want to lose by doing recomp. I tried to take some photos for this thread to get opinions, but came to the conclusion that my body fat is still too high (below my waist) to attempt this yet.
This is new territory for me, I've never lost this much weight, or got so close to my goal before, and I really don't want to mess it up.
I think I'm still benefiting from newbie gains, since I only started seriously weight lifting 4 months ago. I'm definitely building visible muscle, as well as improving in strength. I would like to be able to eat more, I feel like I'm hungry all the time, but I don't want to derail so close to goal. So I'm going to keep going at deficit until I hit 140lbs (I'm 146 now), at which point I will have lost 70lbs. I'm thinking by then newbie gains will have slowed, and I'll commit myself to recomp.
newbie gains are only built in the beginning usually. usually the gain tapers off when in a deficit. so I am sure by now that you arent gaining any muscle(i could be wrong-someone will come and correct me lol) and what you may be seeing is the muscle that was under the fat you had.if your strength improves it doesnt always mean muscle gain. being female it also takes longer to build muscle,and the older we get the longer it takes compared to someone half our age.But just keep doing what you are doing.you will get there0 -
I should take a photo today while I'm in my gym kit - I must be the exception to the rule, because I've built a startling amount of muscle in 4 months, even though in a deficit, and trust me, it wasn't there before, my upper body was already very lean.
I wonder how much of muscle gaining is genetic? My first cousin was a very successful body builder in her younger days.0 -
I should take a photo today while I'm in my gym kit - I must be the exception to the rule, because I've built a startling amount of muscle in 4 months, even though in a deficit, and trust me, it wasn't there before, my upper body was already very lean.
I wonder how much of muscle gaining is genetic? My first cousin was a very successful body builder in her younger days.
There's a huge range of genetic gifts. If you think of a bell curve the majority are in the middle but the range is very, very wide. When people say "I can't so you can't" or even "most people can't so you can't" it's not accurate for everyone.
Elite athletes for example are to a great extent born not trained. Their particular gifts determine what sport they can excel at and that includes the ability to gain muscle easily.
When I was coaching youth rugby (teenage males primed for rapid growth) the differences in response to training were enormous. From almost no results over months of training to getting hoooooge in no time at all.
The fastest responder went on to give up rugby and take up bodybuilding.0 -
Interesting!!! I think the one size fits all model is not generally accurate in fields that concerns the human body. It's tempting in its simplicity, but we are all so different, and our bodies respond in their own unique ways to how we feed and train them.2
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Okay, here's a bad selfie, to give you an idea of where I'm at. I wimped out on wearing shorts!
Does it look like, a) I'm ready for recomp, and b) my caliper fat % measurement was at all accurate?
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I know nothing about recomp, but you look great!3
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a) Flip the question around - do you still need to be at a deficit? (No, you're looking great!)
b) You look more like the 20 - 22% picture on Builtlean. http://www.builtlean.com/2012/09/24/body-fat-percentage-men-women/
You are far slimmer than the 25% picture on there.0
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