Stronglift 5*5 Confusion.
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standenvernet wrote: »
Till you die...unnichaacko wrote: »davidcliff wrote: »You get used to it. Are you using the mobile app? If not, I found it helpful to figure out any deloading.
Good idea. I am yet to start to use it. I should download it before the next workout. So, you progress each week with 5lbs and it continues till?
... well not exactly, the program will have you progressively increasing the loads on all of your lifts until you fail to make the full 5 reps for 3 attempts in a row; as mentioned above, this is where the mobile app REALLY comes in to its own.
Once you hit a failure point (again, prolly overhead press first), you'll try again at the same fail weight, and if you still can't get it up (OK, it happens... or so I'm told
), You'll reduce/deload the weight that you're trying by some factor (10% typically), and get back to where you can lift it for the full 5x5 and begin to progressively increase weight again...
When you return to that fail weight again, your body and nervous system may be able to progress right through your previous stop point, or... you may again fail (OK, you will again fail, just maybe not at this exact weight)...
The next few attempts to continue progress after a fail-deload may be facilitated by slowing the rate of rate increase on the bar (you'll want some fractional weights for this so that you can step-up bar weight by half or full- pound increments if you're using imperial weight; 0.125kg/0.25kgs for metric plates); allowing you to approach this fail weight more slowly to see how far you can go...
Alternately (or even coupled with fractional plates) there are lifting strategies for moving slightly off of the 5x5 protocol like shifting to a 3x5, 2x5, or even 1x5 that can be invoked sequentially for your stalled lift to get you back on the progressive overload path.
All this while, while you're chasing whatever lift (OHP?) has stalled, you'll be increasing weight on all the other lifts, until, inevitably, you'll fail 3-times and begin these deload/reload cycles for each lift in turn...
... at some point, hopefully, you'll be sufficiently progressed to look at other accessory work to possibly help your stalled lifts (again, a nice place where the StrongLifts 5x5 mobile apps comes in handy). You'll either continue to increase your weight in SL5x5, or move on to a more advanced and challenging protocol that will focus on your weak areas or whatever goals you have in mind.
If you've not yet joined (or lurked) there is an excellent group for ladies following the SL5x5 program here (lots of great people and good advice/guidance to be had): http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/4601-stronglifts-5x5-for-women
(yeah, and get the mobile app -- free is fine, the paid version is affordable and offers additional features to keep you busy for a year or more...)
This was extremely helpful.
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unnichaacko wrote: »samanthaluangphixay wrote: »I know that when my form is off, I can feel pain. Bad form for squats or deadlifts I feel in my back.
I definitely agree that you don't need to always add 5lbs per workout - especially if you don't have the form right.
You mention that this is workout three, so if you are starting off with the bar for squats and hit it, then you would theoretically be at 55lbs right now. You mention being 93lbs...that's 60% of your bodyweight. That might be different than someone who is 50lbs heavier squatting the same 55lbs. Before it gets heavier, I would definitely be working on getting the correct form down.
I do have to think about my form the next time. Also, in addition to 5*5, have you been doing anything else? I have heard it is not recommended to any other workout while following the program. I have been a calisthenics junkie for over a decade and I am unable to stop myself from having a morning calisthenics session. It is almost as meditating for me. That being said, maybe decade of calisthenics made me stronger enough to not feel 55lbs as heavier as it might seem to most people. But I do need to check if my forms are off from the next workouts.
There are assistance exercises that are available on the paid version of the 5x5 app and on my days off, I do those. I usually don't have the time to do them alongside the regular workout as I only have 50 minutes in the gym max.
If your calisthenics don't hinder your ability to recover from the workout, then it should be OK. Probably more so in the beginning. When it gets really heavy, then I would scale back on those.1 -
samanthaluangphixay wrote: »unnichaacko wrote: »samanthaluangphixay wrote: »I know that when my form is off, I can feel pain. Bad form for squats or deadlifts I feel in my back.
I definitely agree that you don't need to always add 5lbs per workout - especially if you don't have the form right.
You mention that this is workout three, so if you are starting off with the bar for squats and hit it, then you would theoretically be at 55lbs right now. You mention being 93lbs...that's 60% of your bodyweight. That might be different than someone who is 50lbs heavier squatting the same 55lbs. Before it gets heavier, I would definitely be working on getting the correct form down.
I do have to think about my form the next time. Also, in addition to 5*5, have you been doing anything else? I have heard it is not recommended to any other workout while following the program. I have been a calisthenics junkie for over a decade and I am unable to stop myself from having a morning calisthenics session. It is almost as meditating for me. That being said, maybe decade of calisthenics made me stronger enough to not feel 55lbs as heavier as it might seem to most people. But I do need to check if my forms are off from the next workouts.
There are assistance exercises that are available on the paid version of the 5x5 app and on my days off, I do those. I usually don't have the time to do them alongside the regular workout as I only have 50 minutes in the gym max.
If your calisthenics don't hinder your ability to recover from the workout, then it should be OK. Probably more so in the beginning. When it gets really heavy, then I would scale back on those.
It seems like I need to eat more, a lot more. I felt dizzy and weak the entire day. Never knew weight lifting is this taxing.0 -
If you're feeling this while you're lifting, sometimes this can be due to what you have 'available' when you begin your workout -- If you're lifting while fasted (like several hours since your last feed), it may be helpful to load a little fat and/or carbs 30+ minutes prior to starting (for me, half a PBJ sammich used to do the trick). Be careful, passing out on a lift can really do damage (BTDT; not worth the tee-shirt)unnichaacko wrote: »samanthaluangphixay wrote: »unnichaacko wrote: »samanthaluangphixay wrote: »I know that when my form is off, I can feel pain. Bad form for squats or deadlifts I feel in my back.
I definitely agree that you don't need to always add 5lbs per workout - especially if you don't have the form right.
You mention that this is workout three, so if you are starting off with the bar for squats and hit it, then you would theoretically be at 55lbs right now. You mention being 93lbs...that's 60% of your bodyweight. That might be different than someone who is 50lbs heavier squatting the same 55lbs. Before it gets heavier, I would definitely be working on getting the correct form down.
I do have to think about my form the next time. Also, in addition to 5*5, have you been doing anything else? I have heard it is not recommended to any other workout while following the program. I have been a calisthenics junkie for over a decade and I am unable to stop myself from having a morning calisthenics session. It is almost as meditating for me. That being said, maybe decade of calisthenics made me stronger enough to not feel 55lbs as heavier as it might seem to most people. But I do need to check if my forms are off from the next workouts.
There are assistance exercises that are available on the paid version of the 5x5 app and on my days off, I do those. I usually don't have the time to do them alongside the regular workout as I only have 50 minutes in the gym max.
If your calisthenics don't hinder your ability to recover from the workout, then it should be OK. Probably more so in the beginning. When it gets really heavy, then I would scale back on those.
It seems like I need to eat more, a lot more. I felt dizzy and weak the entire day. Never knew weight lifting is this taxing.
If you're feeling this after you're lifting, this may be related to uptake... kinda the same thing, a little feed (lots'a folks go with high protein to reduce catabolism on reload coupled with happy fats for a little fuel), and include adequate hydration (throughout the exertion AND afterward).
TLDR: Suspect lowered blood glucose and/or dehydration due to glycogen use/reload in muscles. Eat a little something, and ensure that you're well hydrated.
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standenvernet wrote: »
If you're feeling this while you're lifting, sometimes this can be due to what you have 'available' when you begin your workout -- If you're lifting while fasted (like several hours since your last feed), it may be helpful to load a little fat and/or carbs 30+ minutes prior to starting (for me, half a PBJ sammich used to do the trick). Be careful, passing out on a lift can really do damage (BTDT; not worth the tee-shirt)unnichaacko wrote: »samanthaluangphixay wrote: »unnichaacko wrote: »samanthaluangphixay wrote: »I know that when my form is off, I can feel pain. Bad form for squats or deadlifts I feel in my back.
I definitely agree that you don't need to always add 5lbs per workout - especially if you don't have the form right.
You mention that this is workout three, so if you are starting off with the bar for squats and hit it, then you would theoretically be at 55lbs right now. You mention being 93lbs...that's 60% of your bodyweight. That might be different than someone who is 50lbs heavier squatting the same 55lbs. Before it gets heavier, I would definitely be working on getting the correct form down.
I do have to think about my form the next time. Also, in addition to 5*5, have you been doing anything else? I have heard it is not recommended to any other workout while following the program. I have been a calisthenics junkie for over a decade and I am unable to stop myself from having a morning calisthenics session. It is almost as meditating for me. That being said, maybe decade of calisthenics made me stronger enough to not feel 55lbs as heavier as it might seem to most people. But I do need to check if my forms are off from the next workouts.
There are assistance exercises that are available on the paid version of the 5x5 app and on my days off, I do those. I usually don't have the time to do them alongside the regular workout as I only have 50 minutes in the gym max.
If your calisthenics don't hinder your ability to recover from the workout, then it should be OK. Probably more so in the beginning. When it gets really heavy, then I would scale back on those.
It seems like I need to eat more, a lot more. I felt dizzy and weak the entire day. Never knew weight lifting is this taxing.
If you're feeling this after you're lifting, this may be related to uptake... kinda the same thing, a little feed (lots'a folks go with high protein to reduce catabolism on reload coupled with happy fats for a little fuel), and include adequate hydration (throughout the exertion AND afterward).
TLDR: Suspect lowered blood glucose and/or dehydration due to glycogen use/reload in muscles. Eat a little something, and ensure that you're well hydrated.
I am constantly eating. But now that I think of, typically I did not eat 4 hours prior to lifting since someone told me not to exercise 3/4 hours after having a carb heavy meal and most of my meals are crab heavy since I am a vegan. I will have to try to eat something before lifting then.0 -
Could be all there is to it -- both the GLUT4 and insulin responses of loaded muscle work will draw glucose from your blood to help fuel their activity (along with the muscles drawing on their existing glycogen stores). It shouldn't take much to kinda off-set the blood-sugar drop.unnichaacko wrote: »standenvernet wrote: »
If you're feeling this while you're lifting, sometimes this can be due to what you have 'available' when you begin your workout -- If you're lifting while fasted (like several hours since your last feed), it may be helpful to load a little fat and/or carbs 30+ minutes prior to starting (for me, half a PBJ sammich used to do the trick). Be careful, passing out on a lift can really do damage (BTDT; not worth the tee-shirt)unnichaacko wrote: »samanthaluangphixay wrote: »unnichaacko wrote: »samanthaluangphixay wrote: »I know that when my form is off, I can feel pain. Bad form for squats or deadlifts I feel in my back.
I definitely agree that you don't need to always add 5lbs per workout - especially if you don't have the form right.
You mention that this is workout three, so if you are starting off with the bar for squats and hit it, then you would theoretically be at 55lbs right now. You mention being 93lbs...that's 60% of your bodyweight. That might be different than someone who is 50lbs heavier squatting the same 55lbs. Before it gets heavier, I would definitely be working on getting the correct form down.
I do have to think about my form the next time. Also, in addition to 5*5, have you been doing anything else? I have heard it is not recommended to any other workout while following the program. I have been a calisthenics junkie for over a decade and I am unable to stop myself from having a morning calisthenics session. It is almost as meditating for me. That being said, maybe decade of calisthenics made me stronger enough to not feel 55lbs as heavier as it might seem to most people. But I do need to check if my forms are off from the next workouts.
There are assistance exercises that are available on the paid version of the 5x5 app and on my days off, I do those. I usually don't have the time to do them alongside the regular workout as I only have 50 minutes in the gym max.
If your calisthenics don't hinder your ability to recover from the workout, then it should be OK. Probably more so in the beginning. When it gets really heavy, then I would scale back on those.
It seems like I need to eat more, a lot more. I felt dizzy and weak the entire day. Never knew weight lifting is this taxing.
If you're feeling this after you're lifting, this may be related to uptake... kinda the same thing, a little feed (lots'a folks go with high protein to reduce catabolism on reload coupled with happy fats for a little fuel), and include adequate hydration (throughout the exertion AND afterward).
TLDR: Suspect lowered blood glucose and/or dehydration due to glycogen use/reload in muscles. Eat a little something, and ensure that you're well hydrated.
I am constantly eating. But now that I think of, typically I did not eat 4 hours prior to lifting since someone told me not to exercise 3/4 hours after having a carb heavy meal and most of my meals are crab heavy since I am a vegan. I will have to try to eat something before lifting then.0 -
You should look into fractional plates if you want steady progression at less than 5 pounds a clip.2
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What is the 5*5 Program??
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unnichaacko wrote: »davidcliff wrote: »You get used to it. Are you using the mobile app? If not, I found it helpful to figure out any deloading.
Good idea. I am yet to start to use it. I should download it before the next workout. So, you progress each week with 5lbs and it continues till?
'till whenever is clever. not everyone's goal is to be a power lifter and squat a gazillion pounds. One issue I tend to have with these programs is that people inevitably get wrapped up in them being the be all and end all. There are many ways to train, and frankly linear periodization (i.e. working in the same set/rep scheme) is not how most strength and conditioning coaches train their athletes long term.
5x5 is a great program, particularly for building a good foundation of strength...but from there, there are many ways to train. I primarily run undulating, non-linear periodization cycles throughout the year as my primary focus is general fitness and athleticism...so basically, I work in a different set and rep range every workout...it's winter so I'm strength (heavy) focused but with quite a bit of moderate (hypertrophy) work in there...when cycling starts, my heavy work will drop to almost nil.3 -
http://strengtheory.com/complete-strength-training-guide/
You may want to take some time to read some of Greg Nuckols stuff. But most beginner programs, should only be run beginner programs for 3 months to a year (some variation based on your starting point and progress). But if you struggle to increase volume, and after deloads, if you still struggle to make any type of linear progression, it may be worth moving to another, more advanced training program.3 -
http://strengtheory.com/complete-strength-training-guide/
You may want to take some time to read some of Greg Nuckols stuff. But most beginner programs, should only be run beginner programs for 3 months to a year (some variation based on your starting point and progress). But if you struggle to increase volume, and after deloads, if you still struggle to make any type of linear progression, it may be worth moving to another, more advanced training program.
I kinda say follow any plan at least 3 months. A completely untrained individual starting with the empty bar should have six months in them easy, especially if they are using micro plates. They might not be able to stay at 5x5 on OHP, but failing at one lift might not mean they've exhausted simple linear progression on the other lifts. What would you recommend then? More assistance work on problem lifts, a totally new program? I've heard people recommend continued LP on the unfailed lifts, while switching up the program for the failed lifts only.0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »unnichaacko wrote: »davidcliff wrote: »You get used to it. Are you using the mobile app? If not, I found it helpful to figure out any deloading.
Good idea. I am yet to start to use it. I should download it before the next workout. So, you progress each week with 5lbs and it continues till?
'till whenever is clever. not everyone's goal is to be a power lifter and squat a gazillion pounds. One issue I tend to have with these programs is that people inevitably get wrapped up in them being the be all and end all. There are many ways to train, and frankly linear periodization (i.e. working in the same set/rep scheme) is not how most strength and conditioning coaches train their athletes long term.
5x5 is a great program, particularly for building a good foundation of strength...but from there, there are many ways to train. I primarily run undulating, non-linear periodization cycles throughout the year as my primary focus is general fitness and athleticism...so basically, I work in a different set and rep range every workout...it's winter so I'm strength (heavy) focused but with quite a bit of moderate (hypertrophy) work in there...when cycling starts, my heavy work will drop to almost nil.
^^THIS is one of the most sensible things I've ever read on here! Thanks @cwolfman13!!0 -
I don't add weight at every workout. Last time I followed the program adding the recommended weights at every workout and it was just too much for my body. Listen to your body.
I edit the weights in the app at every workout. And when I do add weight, I opt for fractional plates (1 1/4lb either side) and move up from there.1 -
BrianKMcFalls wrote: »http://strengtheory.com/complete-strength-training-guide/
You may want to take some time to read some of Greg Nuckols stuff. But most beginner programs, should only be run beginner programs for 3 months to a year (some variation based on your starting point and progress). But if you struggle to increase volume, and after deloads, if you still struggle to make any type of linear progression, it may be worth moving to another, more advanced training program.
I kinda say follow any plan at least 3 months. A completely untrained individual starting with the empty bar should have six months in them easy, especially if they are using micro plates. They might not be able to stay at 5x5 on OHP, but failing at one lift might not mean they've exhausted simple linear progression on the other lifts. What would you recommend then? More assistance work on problem lifts, a totally new program? I've heard people recommend continued LP on the unfailed lifts, while switching up the program for the failed lifts only.
I agree, following the program for at least 3 months (unless you hate it) is a good place to start. And with untrained people, it can even be over a year.
My recommendations would be based on a few factors; 1. Are still enjoying the program, 2. making progress in other lifts, and 3. have already deloaded and followed the recommendations of the program. If all of those have been checked, and if you feel comfortable, you could alter the program slightly to incorporate non linear progressive, adding accessories and/or alter volume (take a 3 day and make it a 4 day (OHP more frequently, but less loads each day). Alternately, if you are not experienced enough, or are not working with a coach, I would then suggest moving to another program (like the ones found here)1
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