Garmin and TDEE problems
ehaleyhoward2778
Posts: 49 Member
Im curious to know if anybody else has run into this problem.
I had a Fitbit charge HR for about 3 months. Due to the rubber separating from the band my boyfriend bought me the Garmin Vivosmart HR for Christmas.
(Now I know that fitness bands can't be solely relied upon for results but I'd like to think the Fitbit has played a part in mine for the past few months.)
Anyways I'm a little confused with how it calculates calories burned for the day. I haven't changed my routine up at all since I switched to the garmin but my estimated calorie burn is significantly lower. I'm 22years old 5'5 125 +/- and am pretty active (6 days weights 1hr sessions) plus some running and trail walking. Fitbit showed me burning about 2100 on slower days and up to 2700 on really active days. I'm lucky if I can get the Garmin to report 1800 calories burned. I wore them both during a 1hr heavy lifting session the other morning then kept them both on all day just to see the difference and during the workout they were pretty much in sync with HR/steps/calories but as the day went on the Fitbits calories overtook the Garmins by about 500. I'd rather have it under estimate so I'm sticking with the Garmin for now but it's really hard to know how much I can eat now. If I eat around 2000 calories a day which I feel pretty good on, then I'd technically lose slowly if Fitbit is accurate and gain if Garmin is.
I'm also trying to knock off a couple pounds of what I believe is water retention from holiday enduldging so I set a temporary mfp goal to lose 1 pound a week and if I eat that plus 200ish back from cardio sessions then I'm around 16-1700 total calories which is pretty much what Garmin says I'm burning for the whole 24 hour period. I sure hope my maintenance isn't that low cause I'd for sure go hungry every day.
Any suggestions?
I had a Fitbit charge HR for about 3 months. Due to the rubber separating from the band my boyfriend bought me the Garmin Vivosmart HR for Christmas.
(Now I know that fitness bands can't be solely relied upon for results but I'd like to think the Fitbit has played a part in mine for the past few months.)
Anyways I'm a little confused with how it calculates calories burned for the day. I haven't changed my routine up at all since I switched to the garmin but my estimated calorie burn is significantly lower. I'm 22years old 5'5 125 +/- and am pretty active (6 days weights 1hr sessions) plus some running and trail walking. Fitbit showed me burning about 2100 on slower days and up to 2700 on really active days. I'm lucky if I can get the Garmin to report 1800 calories burned. I wore them both during a 1hr heavy lifting session the other morning then kept them both on all day just to see the difference and during the workout they were pretty much in sync with HR/steps/calories but as the day went on the Fitbits calories overtook the Garmins by about 500. I'd rather have it under estimate so I'm sticking with the Garmin for now but it's really hard to know how much I can eat now. If I eat around 2000 calories a day which I feel pretty good on, then I'd technically lose slowly if Fitbit is accurate and gain if Garmin is.
I'm also trying to knock off a couple pounds of what I believe is water retention from holiday enduldging so I set a temporary mfp goal to lose 1 pound a week and if I eat that plus 200ish back from cardio sessions then I'm around 16-1700 total calories which is pretty much what Garmin says I'm burning for the whole 24 hour period. I sure hope my maintenance isn't that low cause I'd for sure go hungry every day.
Any suggestions?
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Sorry, I do not have an answer for this, and have pondered it myself for awhile. Not with the Fitbit, but my garmin versus map my fitness versus the gym machines. They all come up with different calorie burns....It's enough to piss off the easter bunny...LOL. I know none of them are exact and only "guesstimates" but seriously why the big differences?
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I have heard anecdotally that Fitbit tends to overestimate calorie burn, while Garmin underestimates. I've never had a Fitbit, but have been wearing various Garmins continuously for the past three years and do find that I lose more weight than MFP and Garmin estimate I should. Garmin devices have an activity level setting that may make a difference. I'm not really sure what it does. On the Garmin Connect website you go to the two arrows on the left of the screen then device settings, then user settings, and you can adjust the number for activity level. Also make sure your weight is correct. I lost 30 lbs before realizing I was getting burns for a much heavier person.2
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@jennybearlv
I don't think the Activity Level setting in Garmin Connect has any effect on your activity tracker. This is what someone at Garmin told me:
Most Garmin devices will tell you how many calories you've burned. They've done that for a long time, so long that they've improved how they do it many times. Their very old devices (like my Edge 800 bike computer, I've had it for 6+ years and still use it) had an Activity Class setting and it was part of the math. A lot of people still use older devices, and the Connect web site is made to support them all. So the web site has this setting, to support older devices.
Newer Garmin devices figure out your activity level on their own, they keep a history of all the exercise you've done, and they know how active you are. They ignore that setting and use their own data instead.5 -
I have a Garmin Vivoactive and have found it to be really accurate for me as well.
I've heard people chime in they think their Fitbit over-estimates their burn, but I have no idea to what degree or it it's true for everyone.
Keep wearing them and see. 500 calories a day a is a big difference. You should know quickly which one is more accurate. Make sure your settings for both are the same (or as close as they can be) so they're operating from the same base.1 -
I had the same experience and returned it as I use it for maintenance and that's not reliable. I am back with fitbit0
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Fitbit was super accurate for me during weight loss4
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Are you sure your garmin profile on connect and on the device match?0
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Thanks for the help everybody.
I just checked and my height, age, and gender are the same on both Fitbit and connect. My weight was set at 125 on Fitbit and 128 on garmin. But I'm not sure how 3lbs would make a difference at all. Kinda frustrating also that I get different numbers with different online TDEE calculators. My BMR is supposedly around 1380 so adding day to day activities plus at least 1 hr of exercise a day would bring that up a good bit I would think. But my slowest day this week showed me only burning about 1650 calories and I did about 8000 steps that day and about 45 minutes of exercise. Hmmmmmmm0 -
So I just weighed and measured after taking a little time away from doing that everyday. I'm up to 128lbs (almost my starting weight from July) and I seemed to have gained an inch around my waist and my hips! How is this possible? Even if Fitbit was lying or my logging was slightly off and I was eating at maintenance or slightly over instead of my planned 2-300 cal deficit shouldn't my measurements at least have gone down due to the strength training and plenty of protein I've been consuming? Wouldn't I have essentially been in a a recomp or slight bulk without knowing it? I thought you still were supposed to lose inch-wise if so. Or could this be bloat?
When I had the Fitbit I stayed under its daily burn estimate everyday and now that I've had the garmin I've managed to stay under on it too even though it's estimates are much lower. I weigh and log everything and use measuring cups on liquids. I'd consider my logging to be pretty accurate. Any help?0 -
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They've actually done some research on the accuracy of different trackers compared to more reliable measures. Of the ones they sampled, Vivofit underestimated (~200) while Fitbit overestimated (~200).
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That's interesting. I figure none of them can be spot on, but say mine over estimated by 200 and instead of being in a 250 cal deficit i was right around maintenance then assuming any logging errors I was really in a 100-200 surplus. Combined with strength training would it be safe to say I put on muscle and that's why my weight went up a little? Would that explain the inch increase on waist and hips?0
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Given the unreliability of both intake and expenditure tracking (not necessarily through user error, but rather that it's an imperfect science), it's hard to say 100% on such a micro level. Could be muscle gain, could be fat gain, could be fluid retention - especially given that women are particularly prone to such fluctuations. Most likely it's some combination of the 3. Keep taking pictures, tracking intake/expenditure, weight, and strength gains, and use them all intelligently as pieces of evidence of your progress knowing that none will be perfect or give the whole picture. More specifically - do you feel better/stronger/leaner this month than last? Keep at it. do you feel a little flabbier this month? Adjust accordingly. Keep in mind, while MFP & trackers can be useful tools, people have been doing this whole thing long before we had them. Don't get too obsessive with the minutiae or you'll drive yourself crazy.0
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If your activity is usually consistent (meaning you don't sporadically exercise simply for the sake of a calorie burn on a whim to get more food - sounds like you are pretty consistent though) just eat according to how your body is responding, over what your activity tracker suggests.
I also use a fitbit and have had a Garmin for a while, fitbit likes to say I burn 3000+ calories a day. Through consistent logging and monitoring my weight I've determined 2600 calories to be pretty darn close to my maintenance calories. Since I know this via how my body is actually responding to my activity and intake, I mostly ignore fitbits calorie burn. I can take this information and say I need to eat about 2100 calories a day if I want to lose around a pound per week. I monitor my progress over the course of several weeks, and adjust if necessary.
Your high and low calorie burn days will average out.
If you know how you've recently responded to eating 2000 calories, decide where you need to be based on that. (If you're feeling really lost, there are some decent online calculators that can help give you an idea, but it comes down to consistency in tracking and adjusting according to how your body responds.)
I know this isn't typically how MFP suggests logging, but being someone very consistent with my workouts, I've found it so much simpler to do it this way.... If that makes sense!0 -
They've actually done some research on the accuracy of different trackers compared to more reliable measures. Of the ones they sampled, Vivofit underestimated (~200) while Fitbit overestimated (~200).
Do you have a link?
If not, can you tell us exactly what they're testing? Is that only for walking? Does it include running? Does it include cycling, and if so was it with or without a power meter?
My Fenix 3 (high end Garmin multisport GPS watch) seriously overestimates my walking calories but it's 11 to 13 % low for cycling calories every time, because I use a power meter and it just changes the label from kJ to kCal.0 -
They've actually done some research on the accuracy of different trackers compared to more reliable measures. Of the ones they sampled, Vivofit underestimated (~200) while Fitbit overestimated (~200).
That was a really small study:
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-fitness-trackers-idUSKCN0WN1PD
Given the variability between BMR in people to begin with, the rate of error seen in such a small sample isn't anything to lay at the feet of the trackers since their algorithms are likely working off the known averages to begin with.
The other thing to mention is that trackers are adjustable, and that there's no need to ignore your tracker data if results don't meet with what you're getting. Adjust it until they sync up since, again, it's using averaged data, and you're not necessarily average.
I've had to adjust mine, and I know others on here who have adjusted theirs. They can be very useful devices if utilized to their full potential.0 -
When you say adjust are you referring to stats settings?0
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ehaleyhoward2778 wrote: »When you say adjust are you referring to stats settings?
You can adjust either your stats settings or something like your stride length. I don't know anything about Garmins, so I'm not sure what settings they have.0 -
ehaleyhoward2778 wrote: »When you say adjust are you referring to stats settings?
I decreased my height and stride length, and increased my age. I have a fitbit.0 -
ehaleyhoward2778 wrote: »When you say adjust are you referring to stats settings?
I meant adjust your intake/expenditure accordingly, but yes, adjusting your stats accomplishes this if you adhere to them. TresaAswegan laid it out pretty well:TresaAswegan wrote: »If your activity is usually consistent (meaning you don't sporadically exercise simply for the sake of a calorie burn on a whim to get more food - sounds like you are pretty consistent though) just eat according to how your body is responding, over what your activity tracker suggests.
I also use a fitbit and have had a Garmin for a while, fitbit likes to say I burn 3000+ calories a day. Through consistent logging and monitoring my weight I've determined 2600 calories to be pretty darn close to my maintenance calories. Since I know this via how my body is actually responding to my activity and intake, I mostly ignore fitbits calorie burn. I can take this information and say I need to eat about 2100 calories a day if I want to lose around a pound per week. I monitor my progress over the course of several weeks, and adjust if necessary.
Your high and low calorie burn days will average out.
If you know how you've recently responded to eating 2000 calories, decide where you need to be based on that. (If you're feeling really lost, there are some decent online calculators that can help give you an idea, but it comes down to consistency in tracking and adjusting according to how your body responds.)
I know this isn't typically how MFP suggests logging, but being someone very consistent with my workouts, I've found it so much simpler to do it this way.... If that makes sense!
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GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »They've actually done some research on the accuracy of different trackers compared to more reliable measures. Of the ones they sampled, Vivofit underestimated (~200) while Fitbit overestimated (~200).
That was a really small study:
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-fitness-trackers-idUSKCN0WN1PD
Given the variability between BMR in people to begin with, the rate of error seen in such a small sample isn't anything to lay at the feet of the trackers since their algorithms are likely working off the known averages to begin with.
The other thing to mention is that trackers are adjustable, and that there's no need to ignore your tracker data if results don't meet with what you're getting. Adjust it until they sync up since, again, it's using averaged data, and you're not necessarily average.
I've had to adjust mine, and I know others on here who have adjusted theirs. They can be very useful devices if utilized to their full potential.
I like and trust my Fitbit Charge HR and scale. This small study was made with Fitbit Flex. Also I do not wear fitbit all the time (taking it off for sauna, shower, swimming, sleeping) so there cannot really be 100% accuracy but I do not expect it to be 100%, just approximate
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GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »They've actually done some research on the accuracy of different trackers compared to more reliable measures. Of the ones they sampled, Vivofit underestimated (~200) while Fitbit overestimated (~200).
That was a really small study:
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-fitness-trackers-idUSKCN0WN1PD
Given the variability between BMR in people to begin with, the rate of error seen in such a small sample isn't anything to lay at the feet of the trackers since their algorithms are likely working off the known averages to begin with.
The other thing to mention is that trackers are adjustable, and that there's no need to ignore your tracker data if results don't meet with what you're getting. Adjust it until they sync up since, again, it's using averaged data, and you're not necessarily average.
I've had to adjust mine, and I know others on here who have adjusted theirs. They can be very useful devices if utilized to their full potential.
Agreed, it is a very small study. That doesn't mean that it should be disregarded. It was also very well controlled. It's hard to achieve that sort of control in larger studies. This is how science works - baby steps
Original Article - http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2500062
Good writeup of said article - http://www.runnersworld.com/sweat-science/how-accurate-is-your-wearables-calorie-count
I also never suggested that trackers weren't useful and recommended in a later comment to keep using one because they are, as you say, useful tools. I have worn my Vivofit every day for 2+ years and love it. But OPs original question was regarding the different estimates between different trackers, and I think this study does a great job of answering it.1 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »You can adjust either your stats settings or something like your stride length. I don't know anything about Garmins, so I'm not sure what settings they have.
Fitbit has a pretty big product line, but, for the most part, they all work the same way, just add features in the more expensive models. I mean, the One goes in your pocket, most go on your wrist, some of them measure HR and some don't, some give you phone notifications and some don't, but, for the most part, they all measure steps using a motion sensor. I don't know if the GPS one works differently or not.
Garmin's line is more varied. I'm looking through my profile and settings in their web app, and as far as I can tell, there's no way to set a stride length. They use the same web site for all devices.
The way my particular Garmin (Fenix 3) works, it measures your stride length using the motion sensor and GPS when you walk and run with it. It "remembers" your average stride length at different cadences and uses that to estimate how far you walked when it's just counting steps without GPS.
I don't know how the ones without GPS do it, they probably just guess based on your height.0 -
NorthCascades wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »You can adjust either your stats settings or something like your stride length. I don't know anything about Garmins, so I'm not sure what settings they have.
Fitbit has a pretty big product line, but, for the most part, they all work the same way, just add features in the more expensive models. I mean, the One goes in your pocket, most go on your wrist, some of them measure HR and some don't, some give you phone notifications and some don't, but, for the most part, they all measure steps using a motion sensor. I don't know if the GPS one works differently or not.
Garmin's line is more varied. I'm looking through my profile and settings in their web app, and as far as I can tell, there's no way to set a stride length. They use the same web site for all devices.
The way my particular Garmin (Fenix 3) works, it measures your stride length using the motion sensor and GPS when you walk and run with it. It "remembers" your average stride length at different cadences and uses that to estimate how far you walked when it's just counting steps without GPS.
I don't know how the ones without GPS do it, they probably just guess based on your height.
I believe that's how Fitbit does it, yeah.0 -
NorthCascades wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »You can adjust either your stats settings or something like your stride length. I don't know anything about Garmins, so I'm not sure what settings they have.
Fitbit has a pretty big product line, but, for the most part, they all work the same way, just add features in the more expensive models. I mean, the One goes in your pocket, most go on your wrist, some of them measure HR and some don't, some give you phone notifications and some don't, but, for the most part, they all measure steps using a motion sensor. I don't know if the GPS one works differently or not.
Garmin's line is more varied. I'm looking through my profile and settings in their web app, and as far as I can tell, there's no way to set a stride length. They use the same web site for all devices.
The way my particular Garmin (Fenix 3) works, it measures your stride length using the motion sensor and GPS when you walk and run with it. It "remembers" your average stride length at different cadences and uses that to estimate how far you walked when it's just counting steps without GPS.
I don't know how the ones without GPS do it, they probably just guess based on your height.
I have a VivoActive and can set my stride length for walking. Not for running though.
I'm finding the VAHR to be pretty accurate. I has a VSHR and had issues with using activities where it would double up the calories burned so now my wife has it strictly as a step counter. With the one I have now, I'm within 10% of my chest strap when comparing calories burned to what GC pushes through to MFP for an activity. For example, this mornings treadmill session gave me 329 cals in MFP and Polar says 319.
I'm not sure if @NorthCascades above is correct or not, but it did take some playing with the activity level in GC to get my results this close.
As an aside, the Vivoactive is far better (in my opinion) than the Vivosmart.0 -
NorthCascades wrote: »
My Fenix 3 (high end Garmin multisport GPS watch) seriously overestimates my walking calories but it's 11 to 13 % low for cycling calories every time, because I use a power meter and it just changes the label from kJ to kCal.
I don't find it overestimates walking on mine. Seems quite comparable to METs values at a given speed. Have you compared it to those values.
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How do you set your stride length?
For the record, here's a run I did, you can see how the stride length changes from one moment to the next:
https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/1164644001
Same thing for hiking:
https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/1387292588
We hiked across a boulder field so some of the stride length values look a little crazy.0 -
Device settings > User settings and about halfway down the page. But I can set it only for walking and it may be just for indoor (no gps). I'm not sure about that. I can't set it for running. I think I could on the VSHR as I didn't have the + so no gps. You may not be able to change it if yours is a pure outdoor running watch (I think).NorthCascades wrote: »How do you set your stride length?
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Well mine is a hiking watch too.
So you set it in the device itself, not through the Connect site or mobile app?0
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