When you are doing a recomp, do you eat at maintenance?
serapel
Posts: 502 Member
I just want to clarify...when doing a recomp, do you eat at maintenance?
I currently get 100 g of protein per day. Most of my cals are from carbs bc they are my source of energy. My maintenance cals are 2100 per day. I'm 5'8" and 131 lbs right now. I just did a slow bulk and went from 126 lbs to 131 lbs over eight months.
My body fat right now is about 20% and I'd like to get to about 18 % body fat.
I'm happy with the muscle definition on my upper body, so I'm just maintaining upper now (but would like to do unassisted chin ups), but still want to make serious gains in my glutes and lower body.
Thanks
I currently get 100 g of protein per day. Most of my cals are from carbs bc they are my source of energy. My maintenance cals are 2100 per day. I'm 5'8" and 131 lbs right now. I just did a slow bulk and went from 126 lbs to 131 lbs over eight months.
My body fat right now is about 20% and I'd like to get to about 18 % body fat.
I'm happy with the muscle definition on my upper body, so I'm just maintaining upper now (but would like to do unassisted chin ups), but still want to make serious gains in my glutes and lower body.
Thanks
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Replies
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Yes, the goal of recomposition is to maintain the same body weight but increase muscle mass and decrease fat. Same body weight be definition is maintenance calories.0
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how is it possible to lose fat and gain muscle at maintenance?1
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It's not just possible - it's totally normal if you are providing a suitable stimulus for muscle growth.how is it possible to lose fat and gain muscle at maintenance?
@serapel
You have seen the recomp thread I assume?
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10177803/recomposition-maintaining-weight-while-losing-fat/p1
To answer the calorie balance question - at or very close to maintenance is the answer.
If you want to be absolutely precise someone losing fat and gaining equal amount of muscle at the same weight is actually at a very tiny energy deficit due to the different energy stored in fat versus muscle (a pound of butter has more energy than a pound of steak!).
I managed to add muscle at a tiny deficit over a period of 6 months but that was at a rate of loss of 1lb/month. The more highly trained and leaner you are the less chance of that happening.
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UltraTacks wrote: »
@UltraTacks
Oh yes it is!
Have a read of this Eric Helms article if interested....
(Or just skip to the conclusion if short of time.)
http://muscleandstrengthpyramids.com/calorie-deficit-gain-weight/3 -
how is it possible to lose fat and gain muscle at maintenance?
I mean it doesn't happen simultaneously exactly, as far as I understand while eating at maintenance your body will go into anabolic and catabolic states where some days/weeks you will be gaining and some weeks losing so in the end you can lose fat and build muscle over a long period of time (as long as you are progressively lifting of course).
The only thing is "making serious gains" at maintenance can be a longer process so patience is key.3 -
It's possible. It's just that it can take a long time to notice any significant gains.
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@sardelsahow is it possible to lose fat and gain muscle at maintenance?
I mean it doesn't happen simultaneously exactly, as far as I understand while eating at maintenance your body will go into anabolic and catabolic states where some days/weeks you will be gaining and some weeks losing so in the end you can lose fat and build muscle over a long period of time (as long as you are progressively lifting of course).
The only thing is "making serious gains" at maintenance can be a longer process so patience is key.
Your body is constantly cycling between anabolic and catabolic states whether you are losing, maintaining or gaining. It's doing this many times a day depending on speed of digestion and quantity of your last meal.
Being in a small surplus or deficit (or perfect maintenance) doesn't change that, it just changes very slightly the proportions of the two states.
Also being in a small deficit doesn't stop muscle synthesis, people can and do add muscle mass in a small deficit.4 -
It's definitely possible.
Might not happen quickly since you're already pretty athletic but it will probably be more fun than trying to cut. You will probably recover better and make some strength gains.
You could also consider shooting for a overall weekly maintenance goal and have some days at a deficit and some days at a small surplus.
I'm about 4 months into a recomp right now and I'm making slow but steady progress. But I'm a dude and I also got a quick jolt from starting creatine. Things are moving slower now and some people might not have the patience to do it.
There use to be a group called "women that bulk" and there were women in that thread that made obvious physique improvements while being at or around the same scale weight. Maybe search for that thread. It was a couple years ago.
Best of luck.
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Yes..more or less maintenance and training. This is what most people with fitness physiques do...they train and eat to support their training and over time develop nice physiques...I tend to look at recomp as a byproduct of eating well and training. Most athletes I know do not do bulk and cut cycles outside of my body building friends.4
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This is all very interesting. Thank you!0
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Yes the goal is to eat at maintenance and yes it's absolutely possible to recomp.
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I've been reading about calorie cycling for a recomp. Is there any science or truth to this?
Eat 15% over maintenance on weight days
East 10% below maintenance on non weight days1 -
Jumping at this point because I'm curious about the answer to this last part, I've been doing the calorie cycling during the week as well and ending the week at or slightly above my maintenance average.0
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I've been reading about calorie cycling for a recomp. Is there any science or truth to this?
Eat 15% over maintenance on weight days
East 10% below maintenance on non weight days
I comment to get answers too, since I am trying that approach right now, started this month so I have no idea if it's good or not.0 -
I've been reading about calorie cycling for a recomp. Is there any science or truth to this?
Eat 15% over maintenance on weight days
East 10% below maintenance on non weight days
It depends on how many workout/rest days you have as that will dictate whether you end the week in a calorie surplus/deficit. I don't think there is any scientific evidence to support that but there are many logs of EOD refeeds/calorie cycling on the internet with varying results.0 -
trigden1991 wrote: »I've been reading about calorie cycling for a recomp. Is there any science or truth to this?
Eat 15% over maintenance on weight days
East 10% below maintenance on non weight days
It depends on how many workout/rest days you have as that will dictate whether you end the week in a calorie surplus/deficit. I don't think there is any scientific evidence to support that but there are many logs of EOD refeeds/calorie cycling on the internet with varying results.
So hitting the weekly calorie goal, is what works better? Say, now I'm at a slight deficit, so in a week I should get 13k calories total.0 -
This is all very interesting. Thank you!I've been reading about calorie cycling for a recomp. Is there any science or truth to this?
Eat 15% over maintenance on weight days
East 10% below maintenance on non weight days
Could you share what you have been reading?
There was an article on MFP but it was truly awful TBH with a ludicrous focus on calories and very little on training - which is where the stimulus for growth starts.
"Is there any science?"
Don't know but would question:
Was there a comparison between similar people doing the same training protocol but with different eating patterns?
Was there any attempt to measure and quantify any different results if seen?
Would such a small calorie shift really make any significant difference?
You could actually make the opposite case for underfeeding on training days and overfeeding the next day - bearing in mind muscle protein synthesis is elevated after training does it really make sense to switch to a deficit when the growth is occurring?
That was the logical flaw in one article I read, they stated (inaccurately) that muscle can't be built in a deficit and then suggested to switch to a deficit when you are building muscle which would result in better growth - huh?
Personally I train for performance, eat for enjoyment/health/energy and recomp is a by-product of my training. I'm not even food logging and that's not making any difference at all.
You can tell I'm very sceptical! The idea comes across as a needless/pointless complication to me.
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This is all very interesting. Thank you!I've been reading about calorie cycling for a recomp. Is there any science or truth to this?
Eat 15% over maintenance on weight days
East 10% below maintenance on non weight days
Could you share what you have been reading?
There was an article on MFP but it was truly awful TBH with a ludicrous focus on calories and very little on training - which is where the stimulus for growth starts.
"Is there any science?"
Don't know but would question:
Was there a comparison between similar people doing the same training protocol but with different eating patterns?
Was there any attempt to measure and quantify any different results if seen?
Would such a small calorie shift really make any significant difference?
You could actually make the opposite case for underfeeding on training days and overfeeding the next day - bearing in mind muscle protein synthesis is elevated after training does it really make sense to switch to a deficit when the growth is occurring?
That was the logical flaw in one article I read, they stated (inaccurately) that muscle can't be built in a deficit and then suggested to switch to a deficit when you are building muscle which would result in better growth - huh?
Personally I train for performance, eat for enjoyment/health/energy and recomp is a by-product of my training. I'm not even food logging and that's not making any difference at all.
You can tell I'm very sceptical! The idea comes across as a needless/pointless complication to me.
Bret Contreras stated that all you need is optimal protein and eating a maintenance to recomp. Progressive overload each week is key.
I like this better personally. I don't want to eat in a deficit ever.0 -
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NorthCascades wrote: »
highly trained = closer to genetic limits in terms of muscle mass1 -
I agree with someone that calorie cycling makes no sense. Your body builds muscle for 48-72 hours after you work out, so you'd be eating at a deficit when your body is building muscle.
I like the idea of knowing your maintenance level, getting lots of protein and keeping at that level over a period of one week.
My weekly maintenance calories are 14,420 or 2,060 per day. 20% of that should be protein: 412 cals or 103 grams per day.
I keep reading that progressive overload is the most important factor of a recomp.0 -
I agree with someone that calorie cycling makes no sense. Your body builds muscle for 48-72 hours after you work out, so you'd be eating at a deficit when your body is building muscle.
I like the idea of knowing your maintenance level, getting lots of protein and keeping at that level over a period of one week.
My weekly maintenance calories are 14,420 or 2,060 per day. 20% of that should be protein: 412 cals or 103 grams per day.
I keep reading that progressive overload is the most important factor of a recomp.
It makes sense in that you can position more nutrients around the training bout. I'm not aware that it's ever been tested and so this isn't me claiming that one method is definitively better than another, but I could see at least some merit to the approach from an intuitive standpoint.1 -
I've been toying with it because the only part that I change is my carb intake, protein/fats stay the same but I can move around my energy needs. This allows for the bit of extra calories on the heavy days and less when I don't need it (although I keep the protein for muscle syn) keeping a balance in the long run average versus a constant small surplus. To me that makes some sense but I have nothing to back it up but nor do I have anything to disprove it. If anyone has something concrete one way or the other to shed light I would be very curious.1
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NorthCascades wrote: »
highly trained = closer to genetic limits in terms of muscle mass
Thanks. I figured that was it, but "highly trained" has a different and specific meaning in every sport, so it pays to make sure we're on the same page when in doubt.0 -
NorthCascades wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »
highly trained = closer to genetic limits in terms of muscle mass
Thanks. I figured that was it, but "highly trained" has a different and specific meaning in every sport, so it pays to make sure we're on the same page when in doubt.
Yup, that's a fair distinction. To anyone else reading along -- the idea regarding recomping and whether you're highly trained (in lifting) is simply this: The further you are from your genetic limits for muscle mass (or equivalently, the newer you are to resistance training), the easier/faster it is to put on muscle. And so therefore, in theory it would be easier to successfully recomp when you are newer to training because it's easier to gain muscle mass.2 -
NorthCascades wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »
highly trained = closer to genetic limits in terms of muscle mass
Thanks. I figured that was it, but "highly trained" has a different and specific meaning in every sport, so it pays to make sure we're on the same page when in doubt.
@NorthCascades
To add to SideSteel's response.
As a cyclist you might appreciate this comparison....
A friend of mine is a talented endurance cyclist and very dedicated as well as knowledgeable. He hit his maximum genetic potential many years ago and now in his mid-50's has to accept his ultimate capability is declining slowly despite training just as hard.
I only started cycling seriously about 5 years ago and am still improving a little despite being older but my previous early rapid progress (in VO2 max and power output terms) has slowed to a crawl now - 2.5% for a one hour time trial in a year of hard training
In muscle and strength terms in my first year at maintenance I added 50% to some lifts as I started out well below previous levels. In effect being below a previous level is a bit like "newbie gains" all over again. Now a few years on I have to fight tooth and nail to improve at all.
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@sijomial & @SideSteel I think the fact that I'm well-trained as a road cyclist means I'm pretty far from my genetic potential for muscle mass.
Thanks both of you, it makes sense, and I appreciate the explanation.2 -
I've been at this for less than a year, so I'm definitely not at my potential yet. Recomp would work for me at this point.1
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