Do you think keto is healthy?
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cwolfman13 wrote: »As insulin resistance goes, I've read plenty in regards to it actually making it worse...yes, folks in keto are in remission, but if they were to start eating carbs again, they'd be worse off than they were before. My dad was a type II diabetic and worked with a registered dietitian specializing in diabetes...she never once suggested doing keto. My dad went into remission when he lost weight and dropped the junk food he was eating and started eating more whole foods, to include many complex carbohydrates.
Yes; but this again tells me something - you're advised to do keto for your entire life span if you're diabetic as ultimately it will help keep your blood glucose in check, if you come off that diet, of course your body is going to adjust and likely spike due to the introduction of new sources of glucose (like any other time you come off a diet)1 -
SymbolismNZ wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »As insulin resistance goes, I've read plenty in regards to it actually making it worse...yes, folks in keto are in remission, but if they were to start eating carbs again, they'd be worse off than they were before. My dad was a type II diabetic and worked with a registered dietitian specializing in diabetes...she never once suggested doing keto. My dad went into remission when he lost weight and dropped the junk food he was eating and started eating more whole foods, to include many complex carbohydrates.
Yes; but this again tells me something - you're advised to do keto for your entire life span if you're diabetic as ultimately it will help keep your blood glucose in check, if you come off that diet, of course your body is going to adjust and likely spike due to the introduction of new sources of glucose (like any other time you come off a diet)
Did you miss the part air my dad? I dint understand why keto folks insist than its the only way to control all of these diseases. My dad lost weight and stopped eating a *kitten* diet...he so ate plenty of carbs...fixed him right up. Not all carbs ate low nutrient junk foods, but that seems to be a common theme with keto people.3 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »YDid you miss the part air my dad? I dint understand why keto folks insist than its the only way to control all of these diseases. My dad lost weight and stopped eating a *kitten* diet...he so ate plenty of carbs...fixed him right up. Not all carbs ate low nutrient junk foods, but that seems to be a common theme with keto people.
The case you're talking about seems to be a life long poor eater who cleaned up his eating habits, dropped some weight and improved his health; that he's eating complex carbohydrates instead of simple carbohydrates probably touch on similar benefits, and I bet if you looked at his overall macros, you'd find he probably skirted close to, if not actively ate a ketogenic diet while removing all the junk food.
Again, eating 50g of Net Carbs when all you're consuming is vegetables can be quite challenging. Eating 50g of Net carbs when you're eating junk food (as you suggested he was), chocolates, drinking a ton of alcohol is a doddle.0 -
SymbolismNZ wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »YDid you miss the part air my dad? I dint understand why keto folks insist than its the only way to control all of these diseases. My dad lost weight and stopped eating a *kitten* diet...he so ate plenty of carbs...fixed him right up. Not all carbs ate low nutrient junk foods, but that seems to be a common theme with keto people.
The case you're talking about seems to be a life long poor eater who cleaned up his eating habits, dropped some weight and improved his health; that he's eating complex carbohydrates instead of simple carbohydrates probably touch on similar benefits, and I bet if you looked at his overall macros, you'd find he probably skirted close to, if not actively ate a ketogenic diet while removing all the junk food.
Again, eating 50g of Net Carbs when all you're consuming is vegetables can be quite challenging. Eating 50g of Net carbs when you're eating junk food (as you suggested he was), chocolates, drinking a ton of alcohol is a doddle.
I dint think so....I worked pretty close with him and his dietician...I started eating pretty well the same way with him and in a cut I'm still around 180 grams of carbs...about 130 -140 net
My dad was usually 110-130 net
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LittleBrookFiona wrote: »There is some misinformation regarding ketogenic diets on this thread. I've been on a medically supervised keto diet for 6 months. Essentially, you can eat whatever you want, as long as you keep your carb level at or below approximately 50 grams/day for women, slightly higher for men. Anything over that will kick your body out of ketosis. If you want a piece of fruit that has a higher level of carbs, you make adjustments for the day. I've lost over 70 pounds with maybe another 20 or so to go. I feel great, have much more energy. All of my blood work is in the normal range - no more meds for prediabetes or high cholesterol. My BMI is now within 2 points of the normal range (a decrease of 12 pts.). Once you reach your goal weight, you can slowly increase the carb level until you reach a maintenance point that will stop the weight loss but prevent weight gain. It's not a fad diet if done correctly. This is a lifestyle change that works for some. There is a lot of useful information out there, you just have to sift through it to see if it will work for you.
It's wrong to suggest that one person can eat unlimited amounts of food while eating Keto. You still can gain weight. It may be hard for some because they are filled by fats, but others, like myself, don't. I can easily overeat on keto. In fact, my toughest days are my low carb days (I am carb cycling) and my toughest days are the days I need 320g.4 -
OMG i had just about finished writing a long post, and my cat jumped up and stepped on my keyboard and completely spazzed out my computer and erased it all!!
The gist of it was... I often see people posting their improved lab numbers after switching to keto, but 99% of the time it's followed by "I also lost 50-100lbs". Did their labs improve because of the diet, or the weight loss, or a bit of both?
I would love to hear from someone who was at a normal weight and lived an active/fit lifestyle but also had type 1 or 2 diabetes or other conditions that keto is claimed to improve, and if just switching to low carb also showed such dramatic results.
Let me add that I'm totally on board with keto and low carb, and i really enjoyed while i was doing it, but because of stupid circumstances i had to quit.5 -
I did what would have been considered a liberal keto diet for about 6 months. I only had about 14 lbs to lose, but that's when I lost the weight. Now, I can't say the keto is what lost me the weight, as it's the first time in years that I also restricted calories. So one or the other, or a combination of both.
That "diet" was almost primarily red meats, fish, chicken and veggies, lbs and lbs of veggies a week, with lots of cheeses/butter/olive oil etc. No pastas/rice/breads and so on.
Meals were fantastic, but I was hungry again within an hour and a half, really struggled with satiety.
OP - all I can suggest is try it if you're curious. It won't do you in as long as your CICO is kept in check, and you might like it. You might not. I don't regret anything about trying it at all. Best of luck.0 -
I'm very new to keto but what I can tell switching from counting calories and eating typical 'healthy foods' to balancing macros in aligned with a keto diet while also maintaining a calorie deficit I feel more satisfied and less tempted to binge. That's a huge thing for me so for my mental heath its doing wonders. What I do know about carbs with me is that if I don't watch myself it makes me pack on weight faster, feel hungry more often, and binge until I feel sick. I want to believe keto is a good option for me, but I know it's helping my resolve to stay on track.3
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People assume vegetables are healthy and needed in great quantity. Or at all. It's just an assumption.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdRBFiBWQZQ
So essentially, there just isn't enough data to determine the true effect of vegetables since the studies (or at least the ones she looked at) dont' do a good job at only changing the one variable. She does make an argument though that fruits are what supposed to be eating, and often that is the one thing that is severely limited or even non existent on Keto diets.2 -
Christine_72 wrote: »OMG i had just about finished writing a long post, and my cat jumped up and stepped on my keyboard and completely spazzed out my computer and erased it all!!
The gist of it was... I often see people posting their improved lab numbers after switching to keto, but 99% of the time it's followed by "I also lost 50-100lbs". Did their labs improve because of the diet, or the weight loss, or a bit of both?
I would love to hear from someone who was at a normal weight and lived an active/fit lifestyle but also had type 1 or 2 diabetes or other conditions that keto is claimed to improve, and if just switching to low carb also showed such dramatic results.
Let me add that I'm totally on board with keto and low carb, and i really enjoyed while i was doing it, but because of stupid circumstances i had to quit.
One of the big issues with this, is generally when people switch, they add a ton of monounsaturated fats which has been demonstrated to improve health. And often limit SFA.
Weight loss is probably the largest variable to healthy, along with exercise and genetics, but increase MUFA/PUFA, Omega 3's and MCT can probably help as well.1 -
Weight loss is probably the largest variable to healthy, along with exercise and genetics, but increase MUFA/PUFA, Omega 3's and MCT can probably help as well.
Realistically, Blood Pressure and TC/HDL are more important to your actual health, but that's splitting hairs as in most cases someone losing weight normally restricts the foods that would cause those two things to be an issue.0 -
SymbolismNZ wrote: »Weight loss is probably the largest variable to healthy, along with exercise and genetics, but increase MUFA/PUFA, Omega 3's and MCT can probably help as well.
Realistically, Blood Pressure and TC/HDL are more important to your actual health, but that's splitting hairs as in most cases someone losing weight normally restricts the foods that would cause those two things to be an issue.
And body composition/weight loss and exercise directly improve all of that. So whats the argument. I think we are in agreement.0 -
Yeah, like I said - splitting hairs, but I know many an obese person with great BP and TC/HDL ratios, as well as some thin people with terrible ratios, so it's important to note.
Another benefit which you pointed to was the increased Omega 3 and MCTs; a lot of the time you'll find that those on a keto diet are also paying more attention to their micronutrients due to removing a lot of sources for things like potassium, vitamin c and other things, most nutritionists will suggest a vitamin stack which while not related to the actual keto diet, is likely to give you more of the nutrients you need day to day than a traditional American diet.0 -
It's a fad - just like gluten free.
I've been on keto for over a year, lowest weight I've been in 30 years, not yet at goal weight, I went on it for neurologic reasons- the weight loss is a side benefit. I doubt that I could keep on it just for weight loss. I think for most people it may not be suitable.
My wife is on gluten free for real health reasons and most people should avoid it also.
As far as the standard guidelines for eating - they change routinely - so don't rely on them - eggs are out, then eggs are ok again. Fat is in, fat is out. I eat both.2 -
Ketosis is a state of starvation. Our brains prefer to use glucose as the energy source. Glucose is required for cellular respiration.
Keto makes no sense and coupled with the fact that it often includes loads of saturated fat and cholesterol...it's not sustainable to avoid carbs for life.0 -
There are obviously a ton of opinions here, and honestly, the majority of them are based on nothing more than personal preferences as there are very few doctors or nutritionists here. With the science on keto's benefits (aside from epilepsy) being in its infant stages, I would be wary about taking advice on this from people who haven't tried keto. The key to understanding is that there are genetic differences in all of us and nutrition is impacted by this.
Some people will have positive and negative experiences with the same diet. I have been keto for going on eight months. I can't give you dietary advice. I'm not going to tell you that a vegan, paleo or low fat diet is the wrong diet because for you, it might be. But what I will do it outline what my experience has been. I started eating keto on January 12th 2016. Personally, I have not found the diet difficult to follow. It. Involves a little meal planning, but all healthy diets do. These are what I perceive to be the benefits I personally have experienced.
1:Weight loss- closing in on 90lbs lost since June going from 296 to 209.
2: Clearing Skin: Previous issues with dry scalp issues are gone.
3: mental clarity: I was diagnosed with Adhd a number of years ago. Three months into my ketogenic diet my focus was substantially improved. So much so that my doctor has taken me off medication.
4: Energy : much of which can be attributed to weight loss. But even very early on, my energy level is steady and sustained. I don't even remember what it was like to experience the peaks and valleys I did on a carb centric diet.
5:Cholesterol and flood pressure
Went from having chronic high blood pressure and slightly high cholesterol to ideal blood pressure and ideal cholesterol ratios.
6: Hunger: This is the biggest one for me. I have struggled with food my entire life. Hunger and cravings so abundant and so continuous that I has considered seeking counseling for my food addiction. Being on keto has had a life altering effect in this regard. Most days I don't even eat until 1pm because I am simply not hungry. Sugar and my body do not get along. It is one of the most addictive substances on the planet. And even the good natural kind of sugars sends me into fits of ravenous hunger. I have never felt more in control than I have felt on a ketogenic diet.
Many people get defensive when someone asks a question in a forum like this about what many perceive to be a fad diet. But that is simply because they want to prove their diet is the right way. Nutrition is so varied, there is no right way. And I'm not even saying keto is for you. But I am damn certain it is for me. And at some point in history EVERY diet was new or a "fad". There is documented proof that the carbohydrate centric western diet was just as much about lobbyist buying power as it was about legitimate science. And I hope keto isn't just a fad.. Because there are so many obese sugar addicts like me that can truly benefit from it.
The best way to find out if keto is right for you is to try it. Go to reddit. Read the FAQ in the keto subreddit and give it a try. If you don't like it, try something else. But as for whether or not it's healthy.... In my case, safe to say it Is.5 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »I live under a rock. Apparently keto is the current dieting fad and I doubt it has anything to do with health like I thought... yikes.
Quest Nutrition co-founder Tom Bilyeu concurs. “You have to have a ketogenic product line—that’s where everything is going, and rightly so—and we’re at the forefront of that,” he said to a gathering of reporters at last year’s Mr. Olympia Expo. “And we have the full complement of items ready to go: high-fat, low-calories cookies and chips that will cause the body to burn fat reserves even as they keep you satiated.”
...
Anthony Roberts emphasized that market imperatives, not humanitarian ideals, best explain this rapid transition toward ketogenic foods. “Remember all of those absurd fat free products of the 1990s through the 2000s? That was a multi-billion dollar industry. Now that keto dieting is big, we have another multi-billion dollar industry in the works, and a lot of vested financial interests working to keep their low/no-carb profits rolling in,” he said.
Google Users Can’t Stop Searching for the Ketogenic Diet
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As insulin resistance goes, I've read plenty in regards to it actually making it worse...yes, folks in keto are in remission, but if they were to start eating carbs again, they'd be worse off than they were before. My dad was a type II diabetic and worked with a registered dietitian specializing in diabetes...she never once suggested doing keto. My dad went into remission when he lost weight and dropped the junk food he was eating and started eating more whole foods, to include many complex carbohydrates.
When someone in ketosis returns to a higher carb diet, their BG levels will go higher, but it only lasts a few days. It's transient. Those in ketosis who need to do an oral glucose tolerance tests (OGTT) will resume eating carbs for a few days prior to the test so their body has time to get used to the higher glucose level again.
I would say this is not dissimilar to someone who starts keto and feels a little light headed from low BG for a few days. It takes the body some time to adapt.
Please remember that what worked for your father may not work for others who are using ketosis for the therapeutic benefits.0 -
People assume vegetables are healthy and needed in great quantity. Or at all. It's just an assumption.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdRBFiBWQZQ
So essentially, there just isn't enough data to determine the true effect of vegetables since the studies (or at least the ones she looked at) dont' do a good job at only changing the one variable. She does make an argument though that fruits are what supposed to be eating, and often that is the one thing that is severely limited or even non existent on Keto diets.
Basically, yes. There is no real evidence that veggies are as healthy for us as people assume.
Her comments on fruit do make sense to me. They are designed to be tasty, and have no chemical protection like veggies do. Funnily enough, most of the "veggies" that I really enjoy, like peppers, cucumbers, nuts, seeds, avocado, and snap peas, are all fruits. Keto'ers just avoid the very high GI fruits - usually tropical fruits. Berries and temperate fruits are okay as long as you don't eat a bunch. I had a mandarin today, for example.0 -
amorfati601070 wrote: »Ketosis is a state of starvation. Our brains prefer to use glucose as the energy source. Glucose is required for cellular respiration.
Keto makes no sense and coupled with the fact that it often includes loads of saturated fat and cholesterol...it's not sustainable to avoid carbs for life.
It really isn't a state of starvation. I gained about 8 lbs while in ketosis this year.
Parts of the brain need glucose, although most of it can run very well, or possibly better in those with IR.
As per the saturated fats and cholesterol, those old claims are rapidly credibility.
Plus, it isn't "avoid" carbs. Keto is about limiting carbs.0 -
This is the biggest one for me. I have struggled with food my entire life. Hunger and cravings so abundant and so continuous that I has considered seeking counseling for my food addiction. Being on keto has had a life altering effect in this regard. Most days I don't even eat until 1pm because I am simply not hungry. Sugar and my body do not get along. It is one of the most addictive substances on the planet. And even the good natural kind of sugars sends me into fits of ravenous hunger. I have never felt more in control than I have felt on a ketogenic diet.1 -
+1
This is also the biggest benefit for me. I have definitely considered myself a food/carb addict for much of my adult life and now I am not. Just by limiting carbs! I am in control of my diet and have a healthy relationship with food for the first time ever. I agree that this lifestyle is not for everyone, but it works for me.4 -
LittleBrookFiona wrote: »There is some misinformation regarding ketogenic diets on this thread. I've been on a medically supervised keto diet for 6 months. Essentially, you can eat whatever you want, as long as you keep your carb level at or below approximately 50 grams/day for women, slightly higher for men. Anything over that will kick your body out of ketosis. If you want a piece of fruit that has a higher level of carbs, you make adjustments for the day. I've lost over 70 pounds with maybe another 20 or so to go. I feel great, have much more energy. All of my blood work is in the normal range - no more meds for prediabetes or high cholesterol. My BMI is now within 2 points of the normal range (a decrease of 12 pts.). Once you reach your goal weight, you can slowly increase the carb level until you reach a maintenance point that will stop the weight loss but prevent weight gain. It's not a fad diet if done correctly. This is a lifestyle change that works for some. There is a lot of useful information out there, you just have to sift through it to see if it will work for you.
I don't know why to me this has the same imminent sense of doom as "you eat whatever you want, as long as you keep your calories under 500".
You said it right, though. It works for some. I'm sure low fat works for some too even back when it was a fad. The issue with fads is that people somehow feel compelled to view them as the only right way to do something. That's who the diet industry is usually counting on: repeat customers for whom something doesn't work but they keep stubbornly ramming their head into it.1 -
Christine_72 wrote: »OMG i had just about finished writing a long post, and my cat jumped up and stepped on my keyboard and completely spazzed out my computer and erased it all!!
For future reference, when that happens press Ctrl+z, you may need to do it more than once if there is a lot of text damage, unless you mean your computer froze.0 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »OMG i had just about finished writing a long post, and my cat jumped up and stepped on my keyboard and completely spazzed out my computer and erased it all!!
For future reference, when that happens press Ctrl+z, you may need to do it more than once if there is a lot of text damage, unless you mean your computer froze.
Thank you! No, it didn't freeze. It just closed down all of my screens and sent me back to my start menu.
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Christine_72 wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »OMG i had just about finished writing a long post, and my cat jumped up and stepped on my keyboard and completely spazzed out my computer and erased it all!!
For future reference, when that happens press Ctrl+z, you may need to do it more than once if there is a lot of text damage, unless you mean your computer froze.
Thank you! No, it didn't freeze. It just closed down all of my screens and sent me back to my start menu.
ِAh, it wouldn't have helped in that case. It only works if you accidentally erase or modify text, but are still in the text box. It would have also saved whatever you typed if you were using chrome and had it set up to re-open everything on launch.1 -
amorfati601070 wrote: »Ketosis is a state of starvation. Our brains prefer to use glucose as the energy source. Glucose is required for cellular respiration.
Keto makes no sense and coupled with the fact that it often includes loads of saturated fat and cholesterol...it's not sustainable to avoid carbs for life.
The myth that the brain needs carbohydrates has been busted many times over, your body is actually quite efficient and the only thing it absolutely needs is protein, which is why you're able to trade carbs for fats or fats for carbs and still function normally.
The idea that ketosis removes glucose from your blood stream is also a myth, you still have glucose in the blood stream through gluconeogenesis which converts proteins and certain fatty acids into glucose for your blood stream. What your body effectively changes though is instead of building glycogen stores within your muscles, your muscles start to fuel themselves on ketones instead, initially as you adapt you'll have less output in your muscles, but many people have become endurance runners while on a ketosis diet once they've properly adapted to the diet.
The problem you have in this forum is a lot of people who got sick of the "drop carbs and lose weight" or "sugar is addictive" routines that they themselves stop reading research, stop growing their knowledge and ultimately become similar to this, where they're making statements that are blatantly false.0 -
WinoGelato wrote: »In my opinion, it could be a healthy diet for someone with medical reasons to eat this way, but the average person would have to really focus in order to get adequate nutrition with such restrictions.
This...
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cwolfman13 wrote: »Just because it's been around for a long time doesn't mean it's not a fad...you can read about it in just about every health and fitness magazine at the moment...it's totally a fad in that context.
and this...
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amusedmonkey wrote: »It can be healthy, but it takes more effort for it to be so. As a rule of thumb, the more varied a diet is the more room for error it has in terms of beneficial nutrients.
and this...0
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