Post workout intake
Replies
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Alan Aragon:
Hey everyone, a frequently recurring topic is BCAA supplementation. A lot of folks are simply unaware of the actual data, so they needlessly waste their hard-earned cash on BCAA supps. This might not be music to the ears of folks locked in a routine of taking their favorite supp, but my hope is that it gives some of you food for thought, and ultimately helps you zap an unnecessary (and potentially detrimental) item from your supplement shopping list.
The high-quality proteins in our diets are comprised of appx 18-26% BCAA as it is. Supplementing with extra BCAA on top of that can range from adding extra unnecessary calories (and metabolic burden), to actually inhibiting optimal use of ingested amino acids [1].
Let me also add that whey protein has a stronger anabolic/anticatabolic effect than its equivalent in supplemental EAA or BCAA [2]. It's no surprise that supplemental BCAA has an equivocal track record in the research [3,4]. For those concerned about "going catabolic" doing fasted cardio without AA supplementation, my colleagues and I found no difference in body comp effects between fed vs fasted cardio when total protein is sufficient (both groups retained their LBM) [5]. As for the ability of BCAA to inhibit muscle soreness, note that this is always compared to a non-protein placebo.
It's LOL to supp with BCAA to begin with (instead of an intact, high-quality protein such as whey, which provides the rest of the EAAs as well as other co-factors for anabolism -- but it's all moot if you're getting enough total daily protein anyway). Here’s a salient quote from a recent review [6]:
"Thus, as we speculated, consumption of crystalline BCAA resulted in competitive antagonism for uptake from the gut and into the muscle and was actually not as effective as leucine alone in stimulating MPS. Despite the popularity of BCAA supplements we find shockingly little evidence for their efficacy in promoting MPS or lean mass gains and would advise the use of intact proteins as opposed to a purified combination of BCAA that appear to antagonize each other in terms of transport both into circulation and likely in to the muscle.”
The only people who are not wasting time & money on supplemental BCAA are those who must maintain a low-protein diet, or a diet with restricted amounts of high-quality protein. With that all said, if your total daily protein is optimized, and you don't mind consuming the functional equivalent of really expensive flavored water, then be my guest.
1) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27175106
2) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22451437
3) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20110810
4) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15930475
5) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25429252/
6) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26388782/1 -
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No one is going to read an article that lengthy. My suggestion to the poster of this thread would be as follows. DONT LISTEN TO ANY OF US! Try different ways for yourself and see what your body reacts to best. That is the only true way you will find out what works best for you. Everybody is different and every body is different. Try 8 week of a post workout meal of carbs and proteins within 1 hour. Then try 8 weeks with a post workout with just protein, then try one with protein prior to training and then again after etc etc etc.
So a well written article full of excellent information and referencing several different studies should be dismissed out of hand because it's too lengthy?
Ok.
I actually read it by the way. Excellent write up.
It also challenges the type of assertions you made upthread.No one is going to read an article that lengthy. My suggestion to the poster of this thread would be as follows. DONT LISTEN TO ANY OF US! Try different ways for yourself and see what your body reacts to best. That is the only true way you will find out what works best for you. Everybody is different and every body is different. Try 8 week of a post workout meal of carbs and proteins within 1 hour. Then try 8 weeks with a post workout with just protein, then try one with protein prior to training and then again after etc etc etc.
Actually plenty of people like seeing actual research on the topics. If you don't want to read it, that's totally cool though.
On that note though @BHFF what would you recommend as a method for someone evaluating what is best for them?
If you read my entire reply you would have seen my recomendation
Perhaps I need to word my question better:
You are suggesting that the OP experiment to "see what your body reacts to best".
My question to you is this: How do you determine this? What measures are you suggesting someone use to determine what they react best to?
he wants to gain muscle as he stated clearly. That would be his measurement. This isn't rocket science my friend
I understand what his goals are, I was simply asking you what you would use for someone to see "what works best".
How would you suggest someone assess which protein timing gives them greater muscle gain over 8 weeks?
I already stated that. I would take the protein and carbs within 1 hour of post workout. See what results you gain from that. Then cut the carbs out, see what your body gains or loses from that. Then try your whey shake prior to and after workout, see how that works. I already stated all of this. You dont need a scale to tell you if its working or not 1) all you need is a mirror. Now I get that you are a "fitness coach" but 2) thats all we know about you. You arent him, Im not him and no matter what we say works for us, doesnt mean it will work for him. Everyones body reacts differently.
1) The article you dismissed offers critique of studies for using DEXA scans to measure muscle growth because it is less reliable than MRI and CT scans. I'm pretty sure the mirror is gonna be pretty low on the reliability scale for determining actual differences in muscle growth rate.
Presence of fat, water weight, the mood you're in, lighting, etc. can all influence appearances in a mirror. Hardly scientific and unlikely to actually demonstrate to the OP which method is most beneficial.
2) That's all YOU know about him. I know him to be highly successful, extremely well educated in these matters (because he reads articles that are too lengthy for you to bother with), beastly in the gym and well respected in this community as an excellent source of helpful, accurate information.5 -
trigden1991 wrote: »
In a recent discussion in his FB group about BCAA's, Lyle pretty much echoed what Aragon said - that they're basically worthless and a waste of money if you're already getting adequate protein in your diet.
But what do those two guys know? They both write long articles and stuff.
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