When did you plateau on SL 5X5?

CM_73

From research, it seems that 4-6 Months is fairly typical (I know we're all different) but it feels as if the end is in sight for me already!

Current squatting 75 KG (165lbs)
Overhead press 45KG (99lbs)

I haven't had to deload yet, but I get the feeling it's pretty close.

Deadlift, bench and row I feel I still have a way to go.
I guess I'm weaker than I should be being in a caloric deficit, just wanted an idea of what others had got to.
Age: 43, male, 5' 11" & 245lbs (mostly fat at the moment)

samhennings

36, Male, 5' 6" & 85kg (I think! Havent checked in ages)

I think I was about 7-8 months when I tapped out.

Started with just the bar, got up to
82.5kg Squat
45kg OHP
62.5kg Bench
105kg Deadlift and
60kg Row

Then I was just grinding and getting nowhere, feeling beat up and dispirited.

Ended up taking a short while away from it all. When I came back I did my own thing.

Re-evaluated what I was doing, and came to the conclusion I ended up getting too heavy too quickly and that my form was ugly as hell on most things. Particularly bench (where I tweaked my shoulder, still gives me a little trouble).

So I loosely followed 5x5 in that I would squat first every day, then move onto a couple of compound movements.

I dropped the weight right back, started squatting with 50kg, bench 40kg... and focused solely on form.

Only putting the weight up when I was finding it easy to do the 5x5. That might have been every other session, or every other week.

I also worked in a lot more accessory exercises, which made it more enjoyable and brought their own benefits.

I made some good progress with this, and filled out some across my arms and chest, so it was doing a job - though Ive just started Wendler 5/3/1 last week as per a thread I saw in the Eat, Train, Progress forum.

I have to say, its much harder work than I was doing but I am enjoying it immensely.

I think my "doing my own thing" in between 5x5 and 5/3/1 was probably a very valuable stage as I look at it now.

TR0berts

I got up to 205 lb on squat when I switched. I didn't follow the plan as far as dropping 10% and trying again, though. So, hard to say if I truly plateaued or not. Went to 5/3/1 after that.

eta: So, just about 3 months.

CM_73

Outstanding, thanks both, I'm about in the right sort of ballpark then.

I had a go at this a Year or so again, but got fed up keep tapping out and feeling disheartened so I'm not going to go down the same route again.
I'll stick with it until I do have to deload, then look at alternatives.

Thanks again,

quiksylver296

I went about a year, and used the deload feature several times. Moved on to Layne Norton's PH3, which I love!

samhennings

Only thing I would reiterate is have a really critical review of your form, its all important - and worth backing off a bit and building up again, if necessary, for future success.

I am convinced I made more gains at a lighter weight than with the heavier thanks to proper form.

And now Im beginning to push myself more it feels so much better - even though Im not at my peak 5x5 weights yet.

Personally I think its a flaw with 5x5, I got very heavy very quickly, I dont think I had time to really nail the form.

If I knew someone starting today I would advise raising the weight every other workout just to get more practice in.

JenHuedy

I switched after a little over a year, but during that year I did a couple months 2 days per week @3x5 without adding weight while training for a half marathon, and spent a couple months deloading and working back up after I pulled a hip flexor. I got up to a little over body weight squat, (145lbs) half bodyweight bench and 1.25 bodyweight deadlift when I switched to MadCow. Now I'm progressing regularly again and wish I had switched sooner. 5x5 gets to the point where it just wears you out without getting you stronger.

sammyliftsandeats

About 7-8 months for me.

Deadlift: 200lbs for 1x5
Squat: 160lbs for 3x5
Bench: 85lbs for 3x3
Row: 85lbs for 3x5
OHP: 60lbs for 3x3

I had the app and it let me change some of the rep schemes after failing to hit 5x5 for certain lifts.

I did a lot of deloading and building back up but I just recently switched programs to 5/3/1 as I wanted a change and I think the volume from 5/3/1 is going to help with the lifts I struggled with (OHP and Bench).

I started with the bar for everything except for rows (50lbs) and deadlifts (95lbs).

I definitely benefited from the noob gains.

mom23mangos

I did it for just about 1.5 months after running a hypertrophy routine for 3 months and circuits for 3 months. So I started from my highest amounts at that time and not from scratch. It didn't take very long for me to top out and the volume get to be too much. Around 1.5x BW squat, .75x BW bench, 1.6x BW deadlift.

CM_73

Thanks all, appreciate the replies

@Samhennings, I totally agree with you on the form.
When I did it before, I went up too quickly in weight so didn't get time to really learn the proper form and consequently suffered. It doesn't matter so much when the weight's light, but with a heavy weight across your back, things get messed up very quickly!
This time I started light, really learned my form, and even got a spot off one of the trainers last weekend (the gym was very quiet) to double check all was well as the weight is starting to get heavy.
Only one I'm not really happy about is the pendlay row. I'm doing it correctly (I really have to focus on it though) but it just feels so unnatural!

DopeItUp

I think it was around 245 squat, 265 deadlift and 175 bench? And something around 105-115 OHP (you'll end up deloading a bunch on that...forever))? I switched to madcow 5x5 after that. Then 5/3/1 for the past...3-4 years.

firef1y72

samanthaluangphixay wrote: »

I did a lot of deloading and building back up but I just recently switched programs to 5/3/1 as I wanted a change and I think the volume from 5/3/1 is going to help with the lifts I struggled with (OHP and Bench).

I started with the bar for everything except for rows (50lbs) and deadlifts (95lbs).

I definitely benefited from the noob gains.

Switching to 5/3/1 definitely helped me push through the plateau with both OHP and bench, I was still progressing with Squats/Deads/Rows (although I hate rows), but struggling to get up to full 5x5 with the presses. Just finished the second week of my third cycle and have added 7kg to my OHP 1RPM and 10kg to my bench, plus made gains with squats and deads (attempting bodyweight deads next week).

sammyliftsandeats

firef1y72 wrote: »

samanthaluangphixay wrote: »

I did a lot of deloading and building back up but I just recently switched programs to 5/3/1 as I wanted a change and I think the volume from 5/3/1 is going to help with the lifts I struggled with (OHP and Bench).

I started with the bar for everything except for rows (50lbs) and deadlifts (95lbs).

I definitely benefited from the noob gains.

Switching to 5/3/1 definitely helped me push through the plateau with both OHP and bench, I was still progressing with Squats/Deads/Rows (although I hate rows), but struggling to get up to full 5x5 with the presses. Just finished the second week of my third cycle and have added 7kg to my OHP 1RPM and 10kg to my bench, plus made gains with squats and deads (attempting bodyweight deads next week).

This makes me excited! Thanks for your update!

sgt1372

I did SL 5X5 back in 2012, when I was 61 going on 62 years old. In 4 months, I lost 34# from 192 to 158 and reached the following 1RM levels:

SQT 195
OHP 107
BP 170
DL 275
Pendlay Rows 145

Then I hurt my hip squatting (bad form). Hip pain was treated w/steriods and did not go away for 2 years. During this time I also had various unrelated surgeries and did not start lifting again until May 2016 when I was 65 going on 66.

Started lifting again using Starting Strength 3x5 instead of SS 5x5 and began w/weights only 10-15% of my previous 1RMs. Within 5 months, I lost 36# from 196 to 160 and increased my 1RMs to:

SQT 240
OHP 125
BP 210
DL 330

Stopped doing Pendlay Rows (PR) per SL for max weights because, based on what I've read, it is more suitable as an assistance exercise using lower weights at higher reps w/strict form. So, I am currently doing PR 5x10x120, which is equivalent to a 1RM of 160, as a part of my workout on my BP/OHP days.

I also stopped trying to do Power Cleans per the SS program at 5x3x150# because of its difficulty, the increased risk of injury and the fact that this lift is in the program mainly for sport specific training requiring muscular explosiveness that I do not need to achieve.

When I platueaued w/SS, I considered switching to Wendler 5/3/1 but found it too complicated and none of the other recognized Interediate programs really "clicked" w/me.

After doing some digging on the Net, I found "The Waterbury Method" - - a 10x3 program 1st published and advocated by Chad Waterbury over 12 years ago in T-Nation. Just Google his name and 10x3 to find the articles he's written about it.

I started doing 10x3 with SQT/DL on M/W/F and with BP/OHP on Tu/Th but found that was too much and am currently only doing SQT/DL M/Th and BP/OHP on Tu/F w/rest on W/Sa/Su. I split the SQT/DL day between AM/PM w/at least 4 hrs between them to allow sufficient rest.

To start this program, I deloaded about 10-20% from my recent 1RMs and have been progressively increasing the weights just 1-3% max (as recommended) to try to achieve new 1RMs (+5#), which I am already close to doing in DL, SQT & BP.

I like the 10x3 because of it's simplicity and the continued use of progressive linear approach (at a slower rate) w/low reps/high weights to promote strength and muscle growth, which just makes it an intermediate variation on SS and SL.

So, if you have plateued w/SL or SS, I recommend that you consider The Waterbury Method as a way to achieve further growth w/o the complexity of other programs.

julie_broadhead

The last time I ran Starting Strength, I had an end goal in mind for squats. I wanted to get to 105lb on my squats for 3x5. I reached that goal in 6 weeks. Here are my old ending numbers:
Squat:3x5@105lb
Press: 5x3@ 70lb
Bench: 3x5@ 80lb
Deadlift: 1x5@150lb

I am running Starting Strength again with a new numbers goal. This time, I would like to squat 145 for 3x5, press 90 for 5x3, bench 95 for 3x5, and deadlift 210lb (my last tested 1RM) for 5:-)

Plateauing. I found this video by Alan Thrall where he gives some advice that is not the norm around here.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JFZWM-_JNhQ

shagerty777

@Jtalaskamom Thanks for posting that video! I found it quite educational.

canadianlbs

CM_73 wrote: »

I'll stick with it until I do have to deload, then look at alternatives.

Thanks again,

deloading occasionally isn't that big a thing, especially if you don't usually take rest weeks. my own sl record was pretty patchy, with lots of derails and working back up again.

after about a year and a half i just reached a point where it felt like the struggle was always bigger than the growth. so even though on paper my lifts were still going up, it just never felt like i was getting stronger. i switched when my trainer realised i was feeling punished and angry all the time. you get into this thing where it just feels like a dark tunnel with no landmarks and no letup at any point.

i went wendler and almost a year later i'm still really happy with it. the only thing is, weight increases pretty slowly with wendler, so i think it's partly about where your own head is at. for me the switch made sense when i'd reached this point where i didn't really care anymore about another five pounds. it was all starting to feel like what ry cooder said at one point in his career. 'this enormous burden of nothing at all'.