Feeling Hopeless.....

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Replies

  • Emily3907
    Emily3907 Posts: 1,461 Member
    I am actually seeing a therapist for this at the moment. Since my late teens, I have been in a constant battle with my weight (mostly a losing battle). I won't go into details about my particular circumstances, because we all have individual issues/triggers that may cause us to binge or have disordered eating.

    However, one thing I have started to research and learn more about is the hormones leptin and ghrelin. It has provided me some insight into part of why I struggle so much. I suggest talking to your doctor or a registered dietitian about these hormones and how they may play a part in your struggle to lose.
  • ActionAnnieJXN
    ActionAnnieJXN Posts: 116 Member
    There is a 12 step program for compulsive overeaters and people with other eating disorders called Overeaters Anonymous (OA). It is based on the AA addiction-disease model. They have a website with a listing of meetings - local, phone, and online. They also have extensive podcasts and literature available. Also, there are now prescription medications available to treat binge eating disorder - a bariatric doctor can give you information on this. I am not referring to diet pills. I have sought every possible avenue to solve my problem of binge eating and these are the only things that have ever truly helped me. Many best wishes to you OP - I hear your pain and I have lived it.
  • FitOldMomma
    FitOldMomma Posts: 790 Member
    First of all...I'm so sorry you're feeling hopeless. That's an awful emotion to live with.

    There's a lot of good advise given in this thread and I hope you can find some answers that will help you.

    For myself, I started right where you did. But, I also found some determination to once and for all deal with my weight issue. I did so much self examination about why I used food as comfort - more like self medicating rather than for nourishment. I made list after list of reasons why I overate, what foods seem to trigger or worsen my cravings and binges. Then, I SLOWLY began to make changes and form new habits that I knew I could live with for the rest of my life. Many changes had nothing to do with food.

    The one thing I realized about myself is that I am a volume eater. I will always be a volume eater and that's okay for me. I've learned that I personally like the feeling of being full and satisfied. But I also learned that I can get that from eating HEALTHY less calorie dense foods. I'm satisfied and completely okay with eating a big plate full of roasted veggies. I'm satisfied! For me...moderation in all things just doesn't work. I'm sure it's perfect for others...but for myself, no deal. On rare occasions I will have special treats, like ice cream, pie, cake, etc.. But, it's only on occasion and there's never any leftover in my house- because I know myself. And...because I do know myself...I will never eat donuts again. Period. They are my kryptonite. Sure, it's just a mind over matter thing, but I know how my mind works. I once ate an entire dozen of Krispy Kreme glazed donuts. In one hour. That was my lowest point. THAT is why I will NEVER eat a donut ever again. But that's just me.

    Find what works for you , and work it.
    For some, Over Eaters Anonymous truly helps.
    Just don't give up.

    You ARE worth your effort.


  • ckfromedmonton
    ckfromedmonton Posts: 18 Member
    I have several friends who went to food addicts annonymous and it has utterly changed their lives. Food addiction is real and horrendous because we can't avoid food. It's a tough program but it might be worth going to a meeting? My friends lost weight but more importantly regained control of their lives and mental wellness.
  • Booper21
    Booper21 Posts: 5 Member
    Everything all of you have been advising is great. I have decided that it is back to the drawing board, but I am not going to let this get the best of me. Thanks.
  • grenachegirl
    grenachegirl Posts: 19 Member
    I really feel for you OP because I totally 'get it' as I'm the same!! I'm 44 and I've been trying to lose weight since I was 14, that's 30 full years of effort, have I succeeded? Yes, several times in fact, but I've never been able to maintain a healthy weight, I'm 5ft 1 by the way. But here I am again because if I don't keep trying the alternative is that I just get bigger and bigger!! I'm taking it 1 day at a time, when I stumble I try to reassure that myself that it's a blip and I'm only human, I'm going to make mistakes but the important thing is to keep trying!!
    I take comfort from this "Losing weight is hard, being overweight is hard, choose your hard"!
  • maillemaker
    maillemaker Posts: 1,253 Member
    I'm in the same boat as you, so I totally get it. I have lost weight dozens of times in my life and always gained back and then some.

    You are going to have a lot of people telling you that you "can't" be addicted to food. Don't listen to them. People can and do get addicted to anything pleasurable. Gambling, sex, pornography, stealing - there are many behaviors that give a "rush" that some people get addicted to. It does not have to be an chemical dependency like nicotine or methamphetamine, it can also be an internal chemical like dopamine. It also doesn't have to be debilitating. Many people live long and productive lives addicted to nicotine.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dopamine
    In the reward system, reward is the attractive and motivational property of a stimulus that induces appetitive behavior (also known as approach behavior) – and consummatory behavior.[42] A rewarding stimulus is one that has the potential to cause an approach to it and a choice to be made to consume it or not.[42] Pleasure, learning (e.g., classical and operant conditioning), and approach behavior are the three main functions of reward.[42] As an aspect of reward, pleasure provides a definition of reward;[42] however, while all pleasurable stimuli are rewarding, not all rewarding stimuli are pleasurable (e.g., extrinstic rewards like money).[42][43] The motivational or desirable aspect of rewarding stimuli is reflected by the approach behavior that they induce, whereas the pleasurable component of intrinstic rewards is derived from the consummatory behavior that ensues upon acquiring them.[42] A neuropsychological model which distinguishes these two components of an intrinsically rewarding stimulus is the incentive salience model, where "wanting" or desire (less commonly, "seeking"[44]) corresponds to appetitive or approach behavior while "liking" or pleasure corresponds to consummatory behavior.[42][45][46] In human drug addicts, "wanting" becomes dissociated with "liking" as the desire to use an addictive drug increases, while the pleasure obtained from consuming it decreases due to drug tolerance.[45]

    and
    Many types of pleasurable experiences—such as sex, enjoying food, or playing video games—increase dopamine release.[53] All addictive drugs directly or indirectly affect dopamine neurotransmission in the nucleus accumbens;[45][51]

    Many people, myself included, have a totally screwed-up reward system with regards to food. So does my mother. Just the other night I listened to her talking about a hamburger joint she liked when she lived somewhere 50 years ago and her description was so gushing it was almost orgasmic in nature. As I was listening to her it dawned on me how really gross such a fascination with a hamburger really is. But most of my life I have shared the same behavior towards good food. Many years ago we used to make trips to the coast - about a 2 hour drive from where we lived - to visit this seafood restaurant with an all-you-can-eat buffet of fresh-caught seafood. We would plan and look forward to such trips with more enthusiasm than a holiday event like a birthday. And we would deliberately not eat for a long period prior to going so we could maximize how much we could eat and "get our money's worth". Even today I really look forward to "food events" where I can look forward to enjoying a good food item.

    The bottom line is that lots of people, like myself and probably like you, over-like food. I watch the eating behavior of my skinny friends and they do not gush about food like we do. They don't get worked up into a frenzy about it like we do.

    Someone once said that it's easier for an alcoholic or a gambler to stop their addictive behavior because they can simply stop engaging in the behavior. But someone addicted to food has to take their addiction out three times a day and play with it.

    What they mean by that is that you have no choice but to eat every day. So you can't ever really put food out of your mind. You have to eat, you have to make food choices, and so you will always be thinking about what *else* you could be eating besides the meager portion of whatever it is you are making yourself eat to lose weight.

    So this is challenge number one: Trying not to eat what you want to eat.

    But there is a double whammy going on with weight loss. Body fat produces a hormone called Leptin. This hormone is monitored by your body to determine the state of your fat stores, which it wants to protect. Our bodies evolved to store extra food in times of plenty as a safeguard against times of famine. When you start losing body fat, your Leptin levels decrease. Our bodies detect this and in turn there are a cascade of physiological responses, not all of which are entirely understood at this time.

    One of these responses is to reduce skeletal muscle metabolism by about 20%, which results in about a 10% - 15% reduction in overall metabolism. There is some evidence to suggest that strenuous exercise may negate this effect. However, the effect is long-term. In the original study by Dr. Rudy Liebel, it was seen in the laboratory for weeks, and extrapolated to last for years. A recent study has indicated that if you maintain a certain Leptin level for a year that your body will reset to the new level.

    What this means is that people who are losing body fat have bodies that act like they are starving. This was seen with the contestants from "The Biggest Loser" also. You will have to eat about 10% - 15% less food than someone of the equivalent body fat mass just to maintain your weight. So not only do you get to diet, you have to "super-diet" to make up for the reduction in metabolism.

    But another body response to loss of body fat is increased hunger sensations. The body is no doubt urging us to eat to try and restore the body fat levels. Being cold is another symptom reported (and which I also experience).

    So this is challenge number two: enduring the discomfort caused by fat loss, and doing so for years.

    Most people are unable to overcome these two challenges for very long. As a psychiatrist friend of mine said years ago, "Weight loss is basically an exercise in pain tolerance." Most people can't tolerate it for very long, which is why the success rate for long-term weight loss is between 5% and 20%, depending on which study you read.

    The only thing you can do is keep getting back on the horse. As I read recently, "Being fat is hard. Losing weight is hard. Choose your hard."

    Ultimately I keep getting on the horse but I keep waiting optimistically for a safe and effective weight loss drug to finally hit the market that will take willpower out of the equation. The only successful weight loss I've ever really had was while using weight loss drugs.
  • ogtmama
    ogtmama Posts: 1,403 Member
    edited January 2017
    If you are using food to fill a hole or avoid thinking about your problems or issues then there becomes a similarity between overeating and doing drugs.

    The hardest part of kicking any addiction including smoking, alcohol, or drugs is not the physical addiction, it's the mental conditioning/brainwashing that keeps you coming back for something that is doing you harm TO make you feel better...it's a form of insanity.

    I happen to believe that until you wrap your head around the fact that the (insert poison of choice here) DOESN'T MAKE YOU FEEL BETTER, doesn't make your problems go away, doesn't relax you. These things have NO benefits (note I said overeating, not food...food is fine, overeating can be addictive and harmful.
  • maillemaker
    maillemaker Posts: 1,253 Member
    edited January 2017
    I happen to believe that until you wrap your head around the fact that the (insert poison of choice here) DOESN'T MAKE YOU FEEL BETTER, doesn't make your problems go away, doesn't relax you. These things have NO benefits (note I said overeating, not food...food is fine, overeating can be addictive and harmful.

    Except destructive behaviors do make you feel better, in the short term, and trigger the reward mechanism. That's what makes them addictive. All pleasurable stimuli are rewarding.

    And of course one of the problems with food as a reward in particular is the fatter you get, the more food becomes one of the fewer and fewer reliable and consistent pleasurable things to do. You might not be able to socialize, do sports activities, attract a mate, and a host of other things, but food is always there to give pleasure.
  • GamecockFan14
    GamecockFan14 Posts: 154 Member
    alyssa0061 wrote: »
    hope516 wrote: »
    alyssa0061 wrote: »
    GamecockFan14 wrote: »
    Would people tell a meth addict to do meth in moderation? Hopefully not. Why then, do they push this mentality on me? On us who struggle with this??

    Well meth isn't food so.....

    There's no correlation there. We need food to live. It's not the same thing. People don't require meth to sustain life.

    I am pretty sure the correlation that OP is trying to make is that she is addicted to food, and just as you wouldn't tell an addict of a drug to have it in moderation, it is hard to have food in moderation when you have a food addiction. The main issue with that is we actually need food to survive.

    ETA: Not everyone is blessed with using food for its intention which is to simply fuel our body. A lot of people see food as a coping mechanism, a boredom buster, a friend, and the only thing in life that brings them joy. Is this wrong???...of course. Is it that easy to say ok I know this is wrong I will stop??...ask the people on the show of "My 600 pound life" if it is that easy.

    As others have stated, no one is addicted to food. It's the behaviors associated with food and eating. That's an important distinction to understand.

    No, not everyone is "blessed". A lot of us end up here, between needing to lose a few pounds and morbidly obese, because of our relationship with food, not an addiction to food.

    I weighed 400 pounds. I was well on my way to "My 600 Pound Life". But I have never once said I was addicted to food.
    GamecockFan14 wrote: »
    alyssa0061 wrote: »
    GamecockFan14 wrote: »
    Would people tell a meth addict to do meth in moderation? Hopefully not. Why then, do they push this mentality on me? On us who struggle with this??

    Well meth isn't food so.....

    There's no correlation there. We need food to live. It's not the same thing. People don't require meth to sustain life.


    I think you missed the point. There is, indeed, a correlation.

    No, I didn't miss the point. Meth and food are not related.


    I disagree. Have you ever had to completely withdraw from sugar? Considering your weight loss, I'm assuming you have. Or at least, cut down much less than what you were consuming before. So then you'd know that it can make you physically ill- much like when a drug addict is coming off of drugs. Sure, there is a huge relationship component to food- just as there is for a drug addict. It provides a mental comfort as well as a physiological comfort.
  • ogtmama
    ogtmama Posts: 1,403 Member
    That's part of the brainwashing. It doesn't make you feel better...not even in the short term. You feel guilty when you start. Ashamed while you do it, uncomfortably full if not sick, ashamed, embarrassed, fat, sick.

    It's a fallacy. A false memory. That is the insanity of addiction.
  • HardyGirl4Ever
    HardyGirl4Ever Posts: 1,017 Member
    trigden1991 wrote: »
    Everyone requires food to live. It is up to you to want to lose and maintain weight more than you want to get a few moments of satisfaction from eating.

    That's like saying to a drug addict that it's up to you whether you want to live or get that 5 minute high.
  • kshama2001
    kshama2001 Posts: 28,052 Member
    GamecockFan14 wrote: »
    I've been trying to lose and maintain weight for as long as I can remember. I'm 32, and I've been trying since at least 9th grade in high school.

    My most recent biggest loss was from 280lbs to 202 lbs back in 2013. I gained it all back- plus some. Now, here I sit again. Struggling to find the ways to make it through my days with a smile. Feeling hopeless that I'm not capable of beating this soul crushing issue I have.

    I hate being an addict. I hate needing food to live. I can't enjoy it in moderation like most people. That's what always gets me. Whenever I'm doing well with my eating (which is my biggest obstacle since I LOVE to work out. Even now. I work out every day.) , ultimately, I end up giving in to the notion that everyone should eat "everything in moderation". Why is it so hard for people to understand that I can't? I can't eat rice in moderation because it makes me binge eat on other foods. I can't eat pizza in moderation. I can't eat chocolate or cake in moderation. Would people tell a meth addict to do meth in moderation? Hopefully not. Why then, do they push this mentality on me? On us who struggle with this??

    Some Moderators cannot put themselves in the shoes of Abstainers and vice versa: http://gretchenrubin.com/happiness_project/2012/10/back-by-popular-demand-are-you-an-abstainer-or-a-moderator/

    I used to self-medicate with booze and other substances and behaviors and find Cognitive Behavioral Therapy works for all that plus food.

    I went to one or two each Rational Recovery and Smart Recovery meetings and found them very useful. I went to a whole lot more AA/NA meetings (mostly with family and friends) and didn't find the 12 step model especially useful.

    This book on Cognitive Behavioral Therapy for overeating was available in my library system, so perhaps yours as well.

    The Beck Diet Solution: Train Your Brain to Think Like a Thin Person

    Can thinking and eating like a thin person be learned, similar to learning to drive or use a computer? Beck (Cognitive Therapy for Challenging Problems) contends so, based on decades of work with patients who have lost pounds and maintained weight through Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT). Beck's six-week program adapts CBT, a therapeutic system developed by Beck's father, Aaron, in the 1960s, to specific challenges faced by yo-yo dieters, including negative thinking, bargaining, emotional eating, bingeing, and eating out. Beck counsels readers day-by-day, introducing new elements (creating advantage response cards, choosing a diet, enlisting a diet coach, making a weight-loss graph) progressively and offering tools to help readers stay focused (writing exercises, to-do lists, ways to counter negative thoughts). There are no eating plans, calorie counts, recipes or exercises; according to Beck, any healthy diet will work if readers learn to think differently about eating and food. Beck's book is like an extended therapy session with a diet coach. (Apr.)
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