Yet another study shows no weight loss benefit for low-carb
Azdak
Posts: 8,281 Member
Another nail in the Keto Koffin, so to speak.
(Seriously I am not anti-keto--I just really, really wanted an excuse to type Keto Koffin)
https://www.bemorenutrition.com/2017/01/20/low-fat-vs-low-carb-which-is-better-for-fat-loss-research-review/
If you don't want to follow the link--study showed (again) no weight loss difference between high fat/low carb and high(ish) carb/low fat when calorie/protein intake the same.
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"Keto Koffin" = Win!20
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Didn't read the study .....but my theory on Keto is that maybe you don't lose more on the scale but I feel like those on the diet lose more inches. I realize there's the loss of water/bloat weight, but even longer term keto dieters always look like they have lost a ton of inches compared to when I look at cico dieters' before and afters.
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Full article: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/311279409_Visceral_adiposity_and_metabolic_syndrome_after_very_high-fat_and_low-fat_isocaloric_diets_a_randomized_controlled_trial_12
Many, if not most, low carbers find that the improved weight loss rate on a LCHF diet is simply due to appetite reduction. They are less hungry and are able to eat less with not as much effort.
The studies that have found an increase in weight loss have found that it mostly equalizes within a year. There may be a slight benefit in the first few months (by slight I mean just a few pounds) but the gap narrows by 12 months. If there is a metabolic advantage, it doesn't happen in everyone (those with IR seem to slightly benefit) and it isn't much.29 -
Whoohoo! Vegan here, I heart carbs!20
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mjames1319 wrote: »Didn't read the study .....but my theory on Keto is that maybe you don't lose more on the scale but I feel like those on the diet lose more inches. I realize there's the loss of water/bloat weight, but even longer term keto dieters always look like they have lost a ton of inches compared to when I look at cico dieters' before and afters.
I haven't seen a lot of before /after pictures of keto and low carbers because so many of them don't actually have pictures of themselves in their profile areas? Maybe their sharing them in the low carb group that I don't have access to or something. I'd be curious to see this difference that you're talking about though.6 -
crzycatlady1 wrote: »mjames1319 wrote: »Didn't read the study .....but my theory on Keto is that maybe you don't lose more on the scale but I feel like those on the diet lose more inches. I realize there's the loss of water/bloat weight, but even longer term keto dieters always look like they have lost a ton of inches compared to when I look at cico dieters' before and afters.
I haven't seen a lot of before /after pictures of keto and low carbers because so many of them don't actually have pictures of themselves in their profile areas? Maybe their sharing them in the low carb group that I don't have access to or something. I'd be curious to see this difference that you're seeing though.
I'll see if I can dig up my old CKD pictures. Basically, though I was a similar weight, I always looked better after a long keto run. The amount of subcutaneous water that carbs will make you hold is notable.
No, my fatloss wasn't any faster after the initial water drop, but I was definitely leaner looking. However, this was of course, due to being "dry", not because I had less fat. Same reason bodybuilders cut carbs during peaking.16 -
crzycatlady1 wrote: »mjames1319 wrote: »Didn't read the study .....but my theory on Keto is that maybe you don't lose more on the scale but I feel like those on the diet lose more inches. I realize there's the loss of water/bloat weight, but even longer term keto dieters always look like they have lost a ton of inches compared to when I look at cico dieters' before and afters.
I haven't seen a lot of before /after pictures of keto and low carbers because so many of them don't actually have pictures of themselves in their profile areas? Maybe their sharing them in the low carb group that I don't have access to or something. I'd be curious to see this difference that you're talking about though.
Many low carbers don't venture onto the main forums very often due to the older bias against low carbs. The comparison pics are shared in the LCD.
Low carb leads to low insulin which leads to water and electrolyte losses. Losing a few pounds of water can reduce the "puffiness".11 -
Another nail in the Keto Koffin, so to speak.
(Seriously I am not anti-keto--I just really, really wanted an excuse to type Keto Koffin)
https://www.bemorenutrition.com/2017/01/20/low-fat-vs-low-carb-which-is-better-for-fat-loss-research-review/
If you don't want to follow the link--study showed (again) no weight loss difference between high fat/low carb and high(ish) carb/low fat when calorie/protein intake the same.
That shouldn't surprise anyone. The attraction of the low carb diet has more to do with people being able to maintain lower calorie intake, so I'm not sure that the study adds any value since it set the calorie level.19 -
This doesn't surprise me since I live in Italy, and they eat alot of carbs. Low carbing isn't necessary for weightloss.5
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TimothyFish wrote: »Another nail in the Keto Koffin, so to speak.
(Seriously I am not anti-keto--I just really, really wanted an excuse to type Keto Koffin)
https://www.bemorenutrition.com/2017/01/20/low-fat-vs-low-carb-which-is-better-for-fat-loss-research-review/
If you don't want to follow the link--study showed (again) no weight loss difference between high fat/low carb and high(ish) carb/low fat when calorie/protein intake the same.
That shouldn't surprise anyone. The attraction of the low carb diet has more to do with people being able to maintain lower calorie intake, so I'm not sure that the study adds any value since it set the calorie level.
Well no, it does have some value. I am a huge keto fan for cutting, but some of the keto martyrs really did need a reality check. Most of us that you see post on the main forum grasp that it is about easier portion control, better satiety, etc. and that the only ones who see a definite physiological benefit are those with various diseases. However, there are still many who swear "fat doesn't make you fat, carbs do."
Those are the deluded who need a gut check.24 -
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I don't know how to quote directly to reply to a specific person, but Reddit keto is a great place to see a ton of before and afters
also the low carb groups here. 5 -
It's a WOE that has obviously worked for some folks here. If that's how people achieve their calorie deficit, why knock it.
I don't think it's magic, or a cure-all, but it seems to have made weight-loss possible for some MFPers. Just like my WOE has for me.14 -
Just my 2¢. Low carb diets really work, have worked for me in the past. However, at least for me, they're not sustainable. But they're like any other diet that eliminates a food group (low fat, gluten free, etc.). They take a lot of effort to become a WOL. And I'm weak. I like ramen noodles. I like cake. So, they don't work for me long term. But if that's how you want to eat and you think you can do it healthily, go for it. There is no such thing as the Nutrition Police. Thank God, 'cause I'd be serving a life sentence if there were.28
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When i did keto my appetite and cravings lowered, and along with that so did my calories, so yeah it still comes down to calories/calories out. Dieting was a breeze on low carb, if i didn't get a certain side effect I'd probably still be doing it.14
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It's a WOE that has obviously worked for some folks here. If that's how people achieve their calorie deficit, why knock it.
I don't think it's magic, or a cure-all, but it seems to have made weight-loss possible for some MFPers. Just like my WOE has for me.
It's not the diet itself that tends to get kicked. It's the absurd beliefs that some have that stem from it.
As I said, I am actually a huge keto fan, but even I get irritated pretty often by the total lack of understanding about biology that some of it's loudest proponents spew forth. I actually recently had to break down de novo lipogenesis (and explain why it's fairly uncommon) to someone to get them past the whole "carbs make you fat" thing.
I still don't know if I was successful, because they eventually stopped responding.17 -
Another nail in the Keto Koffin, so to speak.
(Seriously I am not anti-keto--I just really, really wanted an excuse to type Keto Koffin)
https://www.bemorenutrition.com/2017/01/20/low-fat-vs-low-carb-which-is-better-for-fat-loss-research-review/
If you don't want to follow the link--study showed (again) no weight loss difference between high fat/low carb and high(ish) carb/low fat when calorie/protein intake the same.
I don't understand how this nails shut the keto koffin? If it did anything, it solidifies that LCHF is a sustainable alternative to the LFHC weight loss push. Additionally these subjects were eating > 50 carbs which may mean keto levels were never truly obtained, and this was specific to men.11 -
While not a low-carber myself, I've read that its theoretically effective for stubborn fat (apparently keeping plasma fatty acids high inhibits alpha-2 receptors on stubborn fat). So, I'd like to see a study comparing the diets in lean people getting leaner. You'd expect better body composition going keto. You wouldn't expect a difference in individuals with a big surplus of fat mass (as in this study).4
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While not a low-carber myself, I've read that its theoretically effective for stubborn fat (apparently keeping plasma fatty acids high inhibits alpha-2 receptors on stubborn fat). So, I'd like to see a study comparing the diets in lean people getting leaner. You'd expect better body composition going keto. You wouldn't expect a difference in individuals with a big surplus of fat mass (as in this study).
I'd not be shocked, but honestly when I am to the point of trying to get rid of that last bit of fat, I'm restricting the hell out of carbs and fats. So yeah, I am in ketosis, but my calories are so restricted that it's gotta come from somewhere anyway.5 -
Another nail in the Keto Koffin, so to speak.
(Seriously I am not anti-keto--I just really, really wanted an excuse to type Keto Koffin)
https://www.bemorenutrition.com/2017/01/20/low-fat-vs-low-carb-which-is-better-for-fat-loss-research-review/
If you don't want to follow the link--study showed (again) no weight loss difference between high fat/low carb and high(ish) carb/low fat when calorie/protein intake the same.
I don't understand how this nails shut the keto koffin? If it did anything, it solidifies that LCHF is a sustainable alternative to the LFHC weight loss push. Additionally these subjects were eating > 50 carbs which may mean keto levels were never truly obtained, and this was specific to men.
There are other studies showing that there is no metabolic advantage to ketogenic low carb diets over non-ketogenic low carb diets: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/ketogenic-low-carbohydrate-diets-have-no-metabolic-advantage-over-nonketogenic-low-carbohydrate-diets-research-review.html/3 -
What do you all think of Dr. Peter Attia's experience? He claims to have gone from 195 to 170 while increasing his calories from about 3200 cals/day (carb heavy) to 4300 cals/day (keto) while keeping exercise constant or even decreasing exercise some (he worked out 3-4 hrs/day and is an endurance athlete)? I have no reason to doubt him.
See:
http://eatingacademy.com/how-i-lost-weight
Also see below on effects of his keto diet on his athletic performance:
http://eatingacademy.com/how-a-low-carb-diet-affected-my-athletic-performance
No one can say this man doesn't know his science on this subject (he doesn't know all obviously but is well educated on the topic).
I don't do keto but it does seem to me there is something to it.2 -
What do you all think of Dr. Peter Attia's experience? He claims to have gone from 195 to 170 while increasing his calories from about 3200 cals/day (carb heavy) to 4300 cals/day (keto) while keeping exercise constant or even decreasing exercise some (he worked out 3-4 hrs/day and is an endurance athlete)? I have no reason to doubt him.
See:
http://eatingacademy.com/how-i-lost-weight
Also see below on effects of his keto diet on his athletic performance:
http://eatingacademy.com/how-a-low-carb-diet-affected-my-athletic-performance
No one can say this man doesn't know his science on this subject (he doesn't know all obviously but is well educated on the topic).
I don't do keto but it does seem to me there is something to it.
Science does. Physics doesn't work that way.9 -
snowflake954 wrote: »
Indeed, you are in rare form today, sir8 -
What do you all think of Dr. Peter Attia's experience? He claims to have gone from 195 to 170 while increasing his calories from about 3200 cals/day (carb heavy) to 4300 cals/day (keto) while keeping exercise constant or even decreasing exercise some (he worked out 3-4 hrs/day and is an endurance athlete)? I have no reason to doubt him.
See:
http://eatingacademy.com/how-i-lost-weight
Also see below on effects of his keto diet on his athletic performance:
http://eatingacademy.com/how-a-low-carb-diet-affected-my-athletic-performance
No one can say this man doesn't know his science on this subject (he doesn't know all obviously but is well educated on the topic).
I don't do keto but it does seem to me there is something to it.
Science does. Physics doesn't work that way.
Explain your comment, "physics doesn't work that way" please. The CICO model doesn't take into account excretion. If it did, then you can see that no conservation of energy principles are violated. Do you think he was lying or made gross errors in his logging?
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What do you all think of Dr. Peter Attia's experience? He claims to have gone from 195 to 170 while increasing his calories from about 3200 cals/day (carb heavy) to 4300 cals/day (keto) while keeping exercise constant or even decreasing exercise some (he worked out 3-4 hrs/day and is an endurance athlete)? I have no reason to doubt him.
See:
http://eatingacademy.com/how-i-lost-weight
Also see below on effects of his keto diet on his athletic performance:
http://eatingacademy.com/how-a-low-carb-diet-affected-my-athletic-performance
No one can say this man doesn't know his science on this subject (he doesn't know all obviously but is well educated on the topic).
I don't do keto but it does seem to me there is something to it.
For me, there is something to it. It isn't a huge advantage but it seems to boost my CO a bit. I lose faster at a LCHF diet than a higher carb diet. I went with close to my calculated calories for losing 1.5 lbs per week. It was set at 1420 kcal but I ate an average of 1500kcal. I lost 2-3 lbs per week, excluding the first few weeks when I lost even more. That's over a 1000kcal deficit per day.... I doubt my TDEE is somewhere between 2500 and 3000kcal - keto seems to agree with my body. BUT I am one of those people in keto for the theraputic effects. I tend to lose better when my health improves.
There's something to it for me. For others, the appetite lowering effects is enough. For those who don't experience the reduced appetite and have no theraputic need of a ketogenic diet, they don't stick with it for long, and why would they?
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Dr Attia- His update in March 2016...
These days I’m eating about as freely as I have in 7 years. I’m still carb-restricted by the standards of most Americans, but nowhere near the ketogenic lines of 2011, 2012, and 2013. I almost always skip breakfast, and lunch is usually a salad (“in a bowl larger than my head,” if possible). Dinner is usually a serving of meat with more salad and veggies. I’m more liberal on fruit and even occasionally rice or potatoes. Also, in moments of weakness I sometimes lean into my kid’s crappy food.
Doesn't seem like he stayed Keto. I wonder why?
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leanjogreen18 wrote: »Dr Attia- His update in March 2016...
These days I’m eating about as freely as I have in 7 years. I’m still carb-restricted by the standards of most Americans, but nowhere near the ketogenic lines of 2011, 2012, and 2013. I almost always skip breakfast, and lunch is usually a salad (“in a bowl larger than my head,” if possible). Dinner is usually a serving of meat with more salad and veggies. I’m more liberal on fruit and even occasionally rice or potatoes. Also, in moments of weakness I sometimes lean into my kid’s crappy food.
Doesn't seem like he stayed Keto. I wonder why?
I know he has changed his diet. I don't remember him explaining why but it doesn't change what happened to him when he lost his weight. I think he likes carbs probably and might think he is missing out on some micro-nutrients going keto. I don't know. I don't plan on going keto for those reasons unless I need to for a medical condition.1
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