Workouts for runners?

ronocnikral

deannalfisher wrote: »

ronocnikral wrote: »

zdyb23456 wrote: »

ronocnikral wrote: »

cwolfman13 wrote: »

ronocnikral wrote: »

Psyduckfan1 wrote: »

Sorry MeanderingMammal, but I'm not bending on trainer certifications. In my book they matter, and if I can't crosscheck you I will presume you aren't certified and that will be the name of that tune. You can see why I had to give up running last year.

But you came here for advice? Also, if you and the trainer aren't on the same page, you should find someone who is.

"cardio only" programs can work. Sure, you may need a day or two per week for some core work, but I do 95% cardio only. The trick is building a solid aerobic base (that means VERY slow running or even walking) in a gradual manner. My opinion on cross training is this, I can't afford the time to not be running (I actually do more stairs now than I run) AND still meet my goals. Others have different goals, "cross training" works for them.

Cross training is pretty important from a fitness and performance standpoint...it reduces the risk of overuse injury and muscular imbalances and can also help you break through performance plateaus.

If you're saying riding a bike always helps your running, I disagree. If you're plateauing and cross training helps you break through, you need a better training plan.

There are benefits to doing some strength training, but I don't believe that is what you are saying. And I wouldn't count that crossfit stuff as a workout either. But again, we all have different goals...

Why isn't crossfit a workout?

because it not only lacks any benefits for anyone serious about endurance, it actually diminishes aerobic capacity (assuming you're doing it with any regularity). in my mind it's a joke, but I care about doing back to back "big days" in the mountains, not how much I can clean & jerk.

In the words of Mark Twight, "TINSTAAFL."

and yet many traithletes I work with use crossfit as a way to develop strength and they do have an endurance focused workouts

Good for them. I have this same argument with my father, who has over 30 IM finishes under his belt.

Perhaps changing some base assumptions would help people. If "lifting heavy" is improving your running or if you're perpetually getting injured, maybe a better training program is in order. Here's an interesting piece to get people started. http://content.bandzoogle.com/users/cippianhotmail/files/Want_Speed_Slow_Down_2007.pdf

Don't get me wrong, a small amount of strength training has it's place, but it isn't cross fit and it isn't lifting heavy.

MeanderingMammal

Psyduckfan1 wrote: »

Sorry MeanderingMammal, but I'm not bending on trainer certifications. In my book they matter, and if I can't crosscheck you I will presume you aren't certified and that will be the name of that tune. You can see why I had to give up running last year.

Up to you, although your problem doesn't appear to have been your training programme, 5K isn't much more than a warm up for a resistance session.

But what would a trail running coach know about coaching someone for running

TavistockToad

ronocnikral wrote: »

Psyduckfan1 wrote: »

Sorry MeanderingMammal, but I'm not bending on trainer certifications. In my book they matter, and if I can't crosscheck you I will presume you aren't certified and that will be the name of that tune. You can see why I had to give up running last year.

But you came here for advice?

That's what I'm wondering as well. There are loads of experienced runners on here who can give excellent advice, certificates or no certificates.

Soccermavrick

In my opinion, first, find a better Trainer. You are not going to be a perfect fit with every Trainer out there, and if you are not a good fit then they are going to have a hard-time being a Good Trainer. Trainers should listen to you and be able to help; they should be able to design a routine, that helps you meet your individual goals, and then only check back from time to time. (If you are meeting with them weekly then that is you needing them to push you. Which is fine, if that is what you need.)

cwolfman13

ronocnikral wrote: »

cwolfman13 wrote: »

ronocnikral wrote: »

Psyduckfan1 wrote: »

Sorry MeanderingMammal, but I'm not bending on trainer certifications. In my book they matter, and if I can't crosscheck you I will presume you aren't certified and that will be the name of that tune. You can see why I had to give up running last year.

But you came here for advice? Also, if you and the trainer aren't on the same page, you should find someone who is.

"cardio only" programs can work. Sure, you may need a day or two per week for some core work, but I do 95% cardio only. The trick is building a solid aerobic base (that means VERY slow running or even walking) in a gradual manner. My opinion on cross training is this, I can't afford the time to not be running (I actually do more stairs now than I run) AND still meet my goals. Others have different goals, "cross training" works for them.

Cross training is pretty important from a fitness and performance standpoint...it reduces the risk of overuse injury and muscular imbalances and can also help you break through performance plateaus.

If you're saying riding a bike always helps your running, I disagree. If you're plateauing and cross training helps you break through, you need a better training plan.

There are benefits to doing some strength training, but I don't believe that is what you are saying. And I wouldn't count that crossfit stuff as a workout either. But again, we all have different goals...

Cross training works different muscles in different ways...it helps mitigate the risk of overuse injuries...it makes you a better athlete...any plan worth it's salt includes cross training. My cross training is lifting...so yeah...that's what I'm saying. It has absolutely made me a better rider...and my coach also coaches professional and other high level road cyclists so I'll go with his expertise over yours.

MeanderingMammal

zdyb23456 wrote: »

ronocnikral wrote: »

cwolfman13 wrote: »

ronocnikral wrote: »

Psyduckfan1 wrote: »

Sorry MeanderingMammal, but I'm not bending on trainer certifications. In my book they matter, and if I can't crosscheck you I will presume you aren't certified and that will be the name of that tune. You can see why I had to give up running last year.

But you came here for advice? Also, if you and the trainer aren't on the same page, you should find someone who is.

"cardio only" programs can work. Sure, you may need a day or two per week for some core work, but I do 95% cardio only. The trick is building a solid aerobic base (that means VERY slow running or even walking) in a gradual manner. My opinion on cross training is this, I can't afford the time to not be running (I actually do more stairs now than I run) AND still meet my goals. Others have different goals, "cross training" works for them.

Cross training is pretty important from a fitness and performance standpoint...it reduces the risk of overuse injury and muscular imbalances and can also help you break through performance plateaus.

If you're saying riding a bike always helps your running, I disagree. If you're plateauing and cross training helps you break through, you need a better training plan.

There are benefits to doing some strength training, but I don't believe that is what you are saying. And I wouldn't count that crossfit stuff as a workout either. But again, we all have different goals...

Why isn't crossfit a workout?

The observation that I would make, whilst I disagree with the premise that you're querying, is that it's not focused. If I were coaching a runner then I'd be looking at some form of structured plan that supports running related objectives rather than the WOD model that doesn't manage progression.

I'd also fundamentally disagree with the premise that cross training isn't beneficial to any sports person. Resistance training helps improve muscular endurance and core stability whilst reducing risk of overuse injury. Cycling helps maintain and improve aerobic capacity and VO2Max, swimming helps to improve upper body strength and stability in a way that running can't.

Top performers cross train in a way that supports their objectives.

ronocnikral

MeanderingMammal wrote: »

zdyb23456 wrote: »

ronocnikral wrote: »

cwolfman13 wrote: »

ronocnikral wrote: »

Psyduckfan1 wrote: »

Sorry MeanderingMammal, but I'm not bending on trainer certifications. In my book they matter, and if I can't crosscheck you I will presume you aren't certified and that will be the name of that tune. You can see why I had to give up running last year.

But you came here for advice? Also, if you and the trainer aren't on the same page, you should find someone who is.

"cardio only" programs can work. Sure, you may need a day or two per week for some core work, but I do 95% cardio only. The trick is building a solid aerobic base (that means VERY slow running or even walking) in a gradual manner. My opinion on cross training is this, I can't afford the time to not be running (I actually do more stairs now than I run) AND still meet my goals. Others have different goals, "cross training" works for them.

Cross training is pretty important from a fitness and performance standpoint...it reduces the risk of overuse injury and muscular imbalances and can also help you break through performance plateaus.

If you're saying riding a bike always helps your running, I disagree. If you're plateauing and cross training helps you break through, you need a better training plan.

There are benefits to doing some strength training, but I don't believe that is what you are saying. And I wouldn't count that crossfit stuff as a workout either. But again, we all have different goals...

Why isn't crossfit a workout?

The observation that I would make, whilst I disagree with the premise that you're querying, is that it's not focused. If I were coaching a runner then I'd be looking at some form of structured plan that supports running related objectives rather than the WOD model that doesn't manage progression.

I'd also fundamentally disagree with the premise that cross training isn't beneficial to any sports person. Resistance training helps improve muscular endurance and core stability whilst reducing risk of overuse injury. Cycling helps maintain and improve aerobic capacity and VO2Max, swimming helps to improve upper body strength and stability in a way that running can't.

Top performers cross train in a way that supports their objectives.

But that isn't what we're talking about. We're talking about a person who, I'm assuming here, under the watch of a "trainer" got an injury from running too much. I stated above that strength training has it's place, although I think it should be a small part of the overall program if someone really want to run.

Many state "overuse" injuries as a reason for cross training, but if you're under a solid plan, there shouldn't be any "overuse." And we should think of "overuse" not only in duration and frequency, but also intensity. Training with the sport you want to do is the BEST training you can get and will adapt the muscles you need. Training on a bike doesn't transfer as well to running as we would all hope. Rowing doesn't transfer to the bike as well as we would like. And crossfit makes you a jack of all trades, master of none.

My premise is most people over train (duration/frequency/intensity) and either become injured or plateau. They then switch to "Cross training" which gives their muscles the rest they need and claim that is the solution. When it was a poorly modulated plan to begin with. Again, that may or may not work for you and your goals. For me, someone who wants to have a giant aerobic base for my goals, there is little "Cross training" and strength training at this point (3-5% of my total training load by time). It changes based on goals/objectives, but right now, I'm focused on running.

cwolfman13 wrote: »

ronocnikral wrote: »

cwolfman13 wrote: »

ronocnikral wrote: »

Psyduckfan1 wrote: »

Sorry MeanderingMammal, but I'm not bending on trainer certifications. In my book they matter, and if I can't crosscheck you I will presume you aren't certified and that will be the name of that tune. You can see why I had to give up running last year.

But you came here for advice? Also, if you and the trainer aren't on the same page, you should find someone who is.

"cardio only" programs can work. Sure, you may need a day or two per week for some core work, but I do 95% cardio only. The trick is building a solid aerobic base (that means VERY slow running or even walking) in a gradual manner. My opinion on cross training is this, I can't afford the time to not be running (I actually do more stairs now than I run) AND still meet my goals. Others have different goals, "cross training" works for them.

Cross training is pretty important from a fitness and performance standpoint...it reduces the risk of overuse injury and muscular imbalances and can also help you break through performance plateaus.

If you're saying riding a bike always helps your running, I disagree. If you're plateauing and cross training helps you break through, you need a better training plan.

There are benefits to doing some strength training, but I don't believe that is what you are saying. And I wouldn't count that crossfit stuff as a workout either. But again, we all have different goals...

Cross training works different muscles in different ways...it helps mitigate the risk of overuse injuries...it makes you a better athlete...any plan worth it's salt includes cross training. My cross training is lifting...so yeah...that's what I'm saying. It has absolutely made me a better rider...and my coach also coaches professional and other high level road cyclists so I'll go with his expertise over yours.

A proper training program helps "mitigate the risk of overuse injuries." If you want to "cross train," then by all means feel free. Maybe my point is better said this way, "cross training" is an addendum (and should be a "small" one), not a replacement for those who really want to build an aerobic base. For the 1000th time, replacing "cross training" (which is what we are talking about) with whatever you are trying to do, may or may not work with your goals. If you're pretty much just a weekend warrior on the road bike and want to do a century or two over the summer, it probably works fine.