TDEE vs BMR
wyhone
Posts: 13 Member
As I understand it, a BMR is the amount of calories a body needs to perform basic functions needed for day to day survival. However, I've been trying to gain a better understanding of what a TDEE is and it appears to have the same definition. When I calculate the two, my end results are two very different numbers, which has me feeling a little confused. In the past, I always thought that as long as a person ate healthy foods, figured out their macros and remained under their BMR, they could be assured of leaning out in a healthy and gradual way. However, my TDEE total is significantly higher. Does this mean that I haven't been eating enough? Also, is TDEE impacted by the amount of muscle you are carrying in the same way that it effects your metabolism? Does that need to be factored in somehow when determining ones total? Sorry for all of the questions but this has always confused me a little bit and I'd really like to gain a better understanding.
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BMR = you never get out of bed, like if you're in a coma.
TDEE = a wild guess at how much energy you need for a normal day, based on vague labels with muddy distinctions like "active" vs "very active."
NEAT = tracking what actually happened. It's how MFP works.6 -
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Ah ok. Thanks for the responses. So there is a formula called NEAT that allows one to accurately calculate their TDEE?0
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To add to the above...
NEAT - moving around doing normal daily activities excluding purposeful exercise (Mfp calculations so add exercise and eat back earned calories)
TDEE - total daily energy expenditure including purposeful exercise
BMR- coma what your body uses for vital function
ETA- all best estimates using the calculators4 -
No. NEAT isn't a formula. It's Non-Exercise Activity Thermogenesis. It varies from day to day.
For the vast majority of people - knowing these terms is completely unnecessary.2 -
No. NEAT isn't a formula. It's Non-Exercise Activity Thermogenesis. It varies from day to day.
For the vast majority of people - knowing these terms is completely unnecessary.
Respectfully I disagree at least for me. Knowing these terms has helped me understand how much food I can eat and still lose. Learning about TDEE (sadly in my 50's) has been the missing link to weight maintenance.7 -
Oh ok. I really appreciate all the information. I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't in advertently shooting myself in the foot, so to speak. I'm always seeing articles about how easy it is to mess up your metabolism and how hard it is to fix it once you have so I was starting to worry lol.0
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Both BMR and TDEE are impacted by body composition and can vary day by day, though TDEE varies more than BMR. Most of the time when people use these terms they are referring to an estimate given to them by some tool. MFP attempts to take some of the estimation out of it by including actual calorie burns for exercise. But it uses an estimation for NEAT. The main reason you would need to know what these things are is so you can get a good idea what a tool is telling you when it estimates your calories for the day.1
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As to which to use,
TDEE - if your exercise level is consistent and predictable, then this seems to work best as it lets you better plan out your calorie requirements on a daily/weekly basis.
NEAT - if (like me) your exercise/activity level varies, then you get a lower base calorie level that you add to based on what exercise you actually do. Today I'm snow shoeing so I'm going to get an extra 1,000 cals to eat (hitting the pub after).3 -
BMR= Basic Metabolic Rate- or the amount of calories you will burn in one day by simply existing. TDEE- Total Daily Energy Expenditure- or the amount of calories you burn in a day based on everything you do; existing, working out, steps, etc. There are some good calculators out there for BMR that will take into account your height, weight, age, general activity level, etc. For TDEE, most people count on fitness devices (pedometer, Heart Rate monitor) or use their BMR plus activity from logged activities from treadmills or other basic index information.1
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leanjogreen18 wrote: »No. NEAT isn't a formula. It's Non-Exercise Activity Thermogenesis. It varies from day to day.
For the vast majority of people - knowing these terms is completely unnecessary.
Respectfully I disagree at least for me. Knowing these terms has helped me understand how much food I can eat and still lose. Learning about TDEE (sadly in my 50's) has been the missing link to weight maintenance.
I respectfully agree with leanjo.
Understanding as much as I could about my metabolism took away most of the guessing, wishing, and praying aspect of losing weight.
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As I see it your body burns energy from 3 sources:
BMR: basic bodily functions. Regulate body temperature, for your organs to work, etc.
Activity: daily movement. Literally, what it takes to move thru your day. Job, hobbies, home life.
Exercise: intentional exercise, where you've moving multiple body parts for an extended period of time
BMR is estimated, there are a few different accepted formulas, but all factor in your gender/age/weight/height.
Activity is a function of your BMR and is estimated. Such as if you're sedentary you may burn an additional 20% of your BMR each day. If you're lightly active, it might be 25-30%.
Exercise of course is going to depend on your size, etc. and how long you go, but also what you're doing/how much you exert yourself.
BMR is just one part of that. TDEE is the total you spend in a day, though usually looks at a week and takes the average.0 -
Oh ok. I really appreciate all the information. I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't in advertently shooting myself in the foot, so to speak. I'm always seeing articles about how easy it is to mess up your metabolism and how hard it is to fix it once you have so I was starting to worry lol.
It's not 'easy' to damage your metabolism, don't overthink it.
Just eat in a deficit, and you will lose weight1 -
Russellb97 wrote: »leanjogreen18 wrote: »No. NEAT isn't a formula. It's Non-Exercise Activity Thermogenesis. It varies from day to day.
For the vast majority of people - knowing these terms is completely unnecessary.
Respectfully I disagree at least for me. Knowing these terms has helped me understand how much food I can eat and still lose. Learning about TDEE (sadly in my 50's) has been the missing link to weight maintenance.
I respectfully agree with leanjo.
Understanding as much as I could about my metabolism took away most of the guessing, wishing, and praying aspect of losing weight.
Ditto. Once I understood how/why my body would lose weight, I was completely free.2 -
Due to a couple of small errors or unclear areas, let's recap.
All values are "wild *kitten* guesses" based on formulas that work for most, but certainly not all people.
BMR = what your body burns to sustain itself in a comma.
RMR = what your body burns sitting extremely quietly in a chair doing absolutely nothing.
The two values are used interchangeably in real life
You will most certainly lose weight if you're eating at your actual BMR.
Arguably (there is disagreement by people other than myself especially when it comes to obese individuals) you should be eating (slightly) more than your BMR/RMR even during weight loss.
Activity factor = you multiply your BMR by these factors which are based on your daily activity in order to guesstimate your NEAT value.
NEAT = non exercise thermogenesis = amount of energy you spend on everything except purposeful exercise and digesting your food. Usually calculated as BMR x AF.
MFP uses an activity factor (AF) of 1.25 for sedentary, 1.4 for lightly active, 1.6 for active and 1.8 for very active.
Other calculators use different factors and definitions.
EA(T) = exercise activity (thermogenesis) = what gets spent on purposeful exercise. A difficult number to guess. People use MET tables and guesses as to the intensity and duration of their exercise or try to extrapolate from type of activity plus heart rate data. Or combinations of the above with varying degrees of success.
TEF = thermic effect of food. Usually a small percentage of daily calories that gets spent on processing your food.
TDEE = total daily energy expenditure. It includes everything mentioned above.
TDEE = NEAT + EA + TEF
= (BMR x AF) + EA + TEF
My personal take is that a deficit equal to 10 to 20% of your TDEE is appropriate for most people (25% if you're classified as obese).
My personal take is that larger deficits over a long period of time have consequences. Coupled with intense exercise they have even more consequences and faster. I do not believe that undereating beyond what is necessary to meet appropriate goals is a good solution.
The quality and consistency of food intake logging also varies between people and will affect how accurate your guess of your caloric expenditute APPEARS to be.
If I forget to log 100 Cal of cream every day, my TDEE will, in practice and based on my results appear to be 100 Cal lower than it really is.
You can guage your "success" at nailing these numbers by reviewing your progress after several weeks (for women 4-6 weeks to include at least one full lunar cycle).
You look at your trending weight change based on your weight recorded through your trending weight web site or app (or some sort of averaged weight that smoothes out naturally occuring water weight variations)
You look at how many calories you've recorded as a deficit or surplus in total and how your weight has responded.
1lb is generally considered to be around 3500 Cal.
If everything is working (you get values between 2500-4000 Cal per lb) good enough. If you're too far out you should consider adjusting if it would better fit your goals
Because you don't know your exact body composition changes I would only adjust my reasonably chosen deficits if there is an appreciable lack of progress (this assumes good food intake record keeping).
If you're feeling changes in your body and are exercising hard I would be much more cautious about creating larger deficits as positive body composition changes may be taking place.
Weight often does change in "jumps" (whooshes) if you are not obese. The more available fat that you have, the more predictably you are able to lose it.
A super high level of precision is not absolutely necessary to achieve success.
Of course good data do allow for better troubleshooting
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All values are "wild *kitten* guesses" based on formulas that work for most, but certainly not all people.
<snip>
Of course good data do allow for better troubleshooting
I wouldn't say that BMR, TDEE and other calculations are "wild *kitten* guesses" but they are estimates that may or may not work for specific individuals.
TDEE calculations DO NOT work for me.
My estimated BMR varies between 1600-1700 cal/day and my estimated TDEE is anywhere from 2000-2600 cal/day. I lost 36# from 196 to 160 (+/- 2#) at a very gradual rate over 5 months on an ave of 1700 cals/day (supposedly at the high end of my BMR). I gained weight at my estimated TDEE on 2000-2100 cal/day and have been maintaining my weight at 160# on just a little under 1900 cal/day (currently a 30 day average of 1874.5 cal/day).
So, while they calculations can help give one an idea of their intake needs, they are ONLY estimates and individual results certainly may vary.
"Good data" definitely allows for better "troubleshooting" in order to determine exactly what your specific individual needs are. In my case, I weight myself and log everything I eat on MFP and have been tracking the data on Excel spreadsheets to do that.
Without doing so, I would still have no way to know (except based on common sense) that the TDEE estimates for me were entirely wrong.0 -
The only TDEE estimate that works for me is the one from my FitBit. The problem I have with most TDEE calculators is that they increase intensity and duration of activity simultaneously. There are no options for people who either (a) work out just a little but very hard or (b) have a very large amount of low-level activity. To get the 'right' number, I have to tell the calculator I'm an athlete - and I'm really really not.0
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I'm amazed at those who interject all the alphabet soup into weight loss.
KISS = keep it simple, stupid.
Gee whiz, I guess I'm dumb.
I just filled out the MFP registration form, and it gave me a calorie budget.
I logged.
I lost.
I've maintained since 2011.
No need to complicate the process.
I have no idea what my TDEE, BMR, or any of those other things are.
The second verse, I don't care.
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I didn't see it, but BMR is part of your TDEE. Simplistically, if you took your TDEE and ate 500 calories left from it, you should lose weight.
TDEE= BMR+NEAT+ physical exercise (if any).
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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My personal take is that a deficit equal to 10 to 20% of your TDEE is appropriate for most people (25% if you're classified as obese).
I see this a lot and have wondered about it. Why not just eat 500 or 1000 calories under TDEE? Why does every TDEE site use the 20% (25% for obese) number? Right now my average TDEE is around 3000. I'm eating around 2000 and losing 2 lb per week. Nothing wrong with that.
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