OA / Sugar trigger food

squires03071986

Morning,

I recently joined Overeaters anonymous and started step work. It has been suggested that I abstain from all types of sugar (except fruit in moderation.) I have managed this for a couple of weeks. I am an overeater and I do binge every so often hence joining OA.
The idea of completely removing sugar forever is one I'm struggling with, I was hoping for help with the overeating and managing emotions better in relation to food. So I have no problem with eating 3 set meals and committing to no snacks but surely at some point I have to learn to be able to moderate my sugar / fast food intake?

I suppose I'm just looking for thoughts, different opinions on this.

Amberonamission

Just an observation, i don't know anything about OA, but when i eat sugar it trigger my hunger like crazy. Just a little bit and I'm hungry for a few days. I do better in all areas of my life when I'm not eating it. My mind is clearer. My skin looks better.

squires03071986

Amberonamission wrote: »

Just an observation, i don't know anything about OA, but when i eat sugar it trigger my hunger like crazy. Just a little bit and I'm hungry for a few days. I do better in all areas of my life when I'm not eating it. My mind is clearer. My skin looks better.

Have you cut out all sugars? Do you ever occasionally eat it?

I think my issue with OA is that it is a life long choice and I can't have the odd day where I eat sugar. On the whole I feel better for giving it up but I would like once a month to have my favourite takeaway or a piece of cake when it's a birthday. Is this something you do or do you abstain completely?

jgnatca

I was diabetic for years (now in remission from significant weight loss) so I cut out sugar and rice from my diet. It helped that I learned to associate certain foods with feeling like crap within the hour.

I am a fan of artificial sweeteners for those days I want a sweet taste.

I think you will have better success at OA by figuring out what your triggers are. Mine is work stress. Knowing that, I have strategies ready when work overwhelms.

Sugar is now back in my life, by the way. Sugar has a whole lot less calories than fat.

l1bbylabel7

I would say that if you think you can eat sugar once in a while without it pulling you right back into eating it all the time then give it a try, I know for me I'm better off cutting it out completely. If I have anything sweet (cookies, cake, etc.) in the house it's all I can think about until I've eaten all of it. October 2nd was the last time I had anything sweet, I eat fruit now instead. So far I've list 20 lbs. and feel so much better!

PaulaWallaDingDong

I don't know anything about OA, but I would think that any methods you use to help you succeed should be tailored to YOUR needs. What is your personal deal with sugar? Is it a general guideline that everyone ditch snacks and only eat specific types of food? Or is this to help with your particular problem? People binge for numerous different reasons, and trigger foods are an individual thing. If salty foods set you off, for example, avoiding sugar makes no sense.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

amusedmonkey

If you are having problems with the main strategy this group offers (complete abstinence from certain foods) this may not be the group for you. Strategies from alcohol addiction don't pan out as well for food habits as they do for alcohol, so treating eating as an addiction may not be the best route. Some people see success with this approach but it may not be for everyone because it basically copies and pastes the same steps used to deal with an entirely different problem without any sort of individualization.

Have you considered looking into other groups that offer different approaches? Or maybe even cognitive therapy? Weight loss approaches need to be individualized to work. How do you see yourself in, say, 10 years? What are the ideal eating habits that you would have then in a perfect world? What are you willing to give or to give up to reach that point? For some people, giving up sugar for life feels like an appropriate tradeoff, for others it doesn't. There is no shame in belonging to either group.

If you do decide to reintroduce the foods you tend to overeat, here are some of the strategies that work for me. They may or may not work for you, but just so you get an idea of what's out there other than complete abstinence:
- I don't like to classify certain ingredients as a problem (like sugar or fat or whatever) but I do have problem foods. Thinking of it like this allows me to deploy food-specific strategies instead of unnecessarily stressing about things that may not be a problem (example: the sugar in BBQ sauce).
- I don't keep the high calorie foods that I tend to overeat in the house. There is no trophy for self-torture and it's alright to make things easier for yourself.
- I never say never to foods I tend to overeat. If I wish to have something, I know I have the option to eat it if I want. More often than not, knowing that I have the option is enough to reduce my desire for it. If really do want it, I just go to the shop, buy a single serving (and a single serving only) and enjoy it guilt free, making sure it's within my calories.
- If I cook/bake something I tend to overeat, I hide the leftovers way in the back of the fridge/freezer/pantry in a inconvenient container with an inconvenient lid and wrapped with cling wrap or aluminium foil, covered by other containers where it's out of sight and the inconvenience of opening the container then re-wrapping it makes me think twice if I REALLY want this. I also have fruits and vegetables conveniently placed for random snacking.
- I have a rule not to eat the foods I overeat while hungry.
- I always consult my overall calories and think if a certain food is worth eating less for another meal or skipping it all together. If it is, then I have it guilt free. If it's not, my desire for a bigger meal can often sway my decision in that direction. I also often plan for something that I really want by eating less for the few days leading to it.
- If I do overindulge, I don't allow myself to fall into that guilt cycle which pushes me to stress eat. I always remember that my calorie balance is how much I eat compared to how much I burn over any period of time, be it a week, a month or a year. It does not reset overnight. As long as I take more steps towards weight loss than I do towards weight gain, my overall trend will be losing weight even if I gain from time to time.

Francl27

I sympathize completely. I do binge on sugar as well but it makes me happy so I can't imagine never having it anymore either... I'm not sure something that asks you to stay away from it forever is the solution though (honestly, I just binge if I restrict too much).

squires03071986

I'm supposed to not eat refined sugars at all, or anything where sugar is in the first top 4 ingredients on a packet. The concept is that once I have a taste then it triggers my mental urge to want more - which is true, it does. But I want to try and manage this without needing to abstain from the things I enjoy.

squires03071986

I think I just feel frustrated, I understand CICO and it clearly works, the science clearly shows how it works. I just can't seem to stick to it.
I can successfully calorie count all week and then binge at the weekend, this then sends me off track. For the last year I have lost and gained the same 10lbs. I have tried hypnosis, behavioural therapy, read every self help book I can think of, been on fad diets (which I wouldn't recommend.) I want to control my urge to eat trigger foods without abstaining entirely.

NatureOfMan

squires03071986 wrote: »

I think I just feel frustrated, I understand CICO and it clearly works, the science clearly shows how it works. I just can't seem to stick to it.
I can successfully calorie count all week and then binge at the weekend, this then sends me off track. For the last year I have lost and gained the same 10lbs. I have tried hypnosis, behavioural therapy, read every self help book I can think of, been on fad diets (which I wouldn't recommend.) I want to control my urge to eat trigger foods without abstaining entirely.

From face value it seems your bodily hormones could be off. But then again you said you're able to eat normally for the majority of the week, however the weekend isn't so pretty. Knowing your week diet will help a ton.

My question is, what exactly happens on the weekend. How does it start exactly.. I'm assuming it's compulsive so what's the thought process leading up to the first bite of your trigger food?

squires03071986

NatureOfMan wrote: »

squires03071986 wrote: »

I think I just feel frustrated, I understand CICO and it clearly works, the science clearly shows how it works. I just can't seem to stick to it.
I can successfully calorie count all week and then binge at the weekend, this then sends me off track. For the last year I have lost and gained the same 10lbs. I have tried hypnosis, behavioural therapy, read every self help book I can think of, been on fad diets (which I wouldn't recommend.) I want to control my urge to eat trigger foods without abstaining entirely.

From face value it seems your bodily hormones could be off. But then again you said you're able to eat normally for the majority of the week, however the weekend isn't so pretty. Knowing your week diet will help a ton.

My question is, what exactly happens on the weekend. How does it start exactly.. I'm assuming it's compulsive so what's the thought process leading up to the first bite of your trigger food?

I suppose I think that I deserve a 'treat' and I decide to have a treat meal so maybe a takeaway or something I wouldn't eat on a daily basis and then I seem to switch back to being 'good.'
My husband has amazing willpower and I watch him lose weight so easily and never struggle to moderate foods

amusedmonkey

squires03071986 wrote: »

I'm supposed to not eat refined sugars at all, or anything where sugar is in the first top 4 ingredients on a packet. The concept is that once I have a taste then it triggers my mental urge to want more - which is true, it does. But I want to try and manage this without needing to abstain from the things I enjoy.

This could also be a self-fulfilling prophecy. You expect to be triggered by sugar, so you get triggered, even if it's something you don't particularly enjoy and wouldn't have binged on if you weren't dieting. That's why I like to think of problem foods instead of problem ingredients. It makes things easier to break down and analyze.

Have you tried focusing on one problem food at a time? What do you often overeat? Of these foods, is there any problem food that you feel would be easiest to control? Start there. Think about when you overeat it and why you overeat it and what habit it's associated with...etc, then tackle one food at a time, controlling portions of the easiest one to control until you get the hang of it, and move on to the second easiest.. and so on. If you overeat something while reading, for example, try to eat it at any time BUT when you're reading, just to change the associations. In addition to not having these foods in the house and only buying them on demand, this is what I did when I first started and it worked up to a point. I can now easily have 30 grams of potato chips and be mentally satisfied. Even after 4 years of dieting I still have problems with nuts and I don't trust myself around them AT ALL, so that's why I only have them occasionally and in very controlled situations.

Reducing the number of foods you tend to binge on could be considered a victory, even if you don't overcome all of them.

squires03071986

amusedmonkey wrote: »

squires03071986 wrote: »

I'm supposed to not eat refined sugars at all, or anything where sugar is in the first top 4 ingredients on a packet. The concept is that once I have a taste then it triggers my mental urge to want more - which is true, it does. But I want to try and manage this without needing to abstain from the things I enjoy.

This could also be a self-fulfilling prophecy. You expect to be triggered by sugar, so you get triggered, even if it's something you don't particularly enjoy and wouldn't have binged on if you weren't dieting. That's why I like to think of problem foods instead of problem ingredients. It makes things easier to break down and analyze.

Have you tried focusing on one problem food at a time? What do you often overeat? Of these foods, is there any problem food that you feel would be easiest to control? Start there. Think about when you overeat it and why you overeat it and what habit it's associated with...etc, then tackle one food at a time, controlling portions of the easiest one to control until you get the hang of it, and move on to the second easiest.. and so on. If you overeat something while reading, for example, try to eat it at any time BUT when you're reading, just to change the associations. In addition to not having these foods in the house and only buying them on demand, this is what I did when I first started and it worked up to a point. I can now easily have 30 grams of potato chips and be mentally satisfied. Even after 4 years of dieting I still have problems with nuts and I don't trust myself around them AT ALL, so that's why I only have them occasionally and in very controlled situations.

Reducing the number of foods you tend to binge on could be considered a victory, even if you don't overcome all of them.

Yes that makes sense! The more I think about it, I have cut out all refined sugar and sweeteners because that's what OA suggest. But Diet Coke doesn't trigger me to binge, neither does Chocolate! Pizza triggers me to binge, bread can also be problematic. But also tiredness and time of day can trigger me wanting to binge. I think that's why I'm struggling to process the whole ingredient abstinence because it isn't necessarily sugar that's a problem.

ActionAnnieJXN

I was in OA. I still use their literature and listen to their podcasts and so forth as a motivational tool, but the 12 step program alone did not resolve my problem. I have binge eating disorder - the only thing that has worked for me is medication prescribed for that disorder by a bariatric doctor (NOT diet pills). In your OA packet, you should have received a pamphlet about freedom of choice - OA chapters are not supposed to tell members what foods they must abstain from. That is for the member to decide together with their sponsor. There are many secret binge eaters in OA who are struggling and fighting tooth and nail to keep their disordered eating under control. If you continue to have trouble while you are in the program, you may want to seek out a specialist in bariatric medicine - there is medical treatment for this, and it works for me.

squires03071986

ActionAnnieJXN wrote: »

I was in OA. I still use their literature and listen to their podcasts and so forth as a motivational tool, but the 12 step program alone did not resolve my problem. I have binge eating disorder - the only thing that has worked for me is medication prescribed for that disorder by a bariatric doctor (NOT diet pills). In your OA packet, you should have received a pamphlet about freedom of choice - OA chapters are not supposed to tell members what foods they must abstain from. That is for the member to decide together with their sponsor. There are many secret binge eaters in OA who are struggling and fighting tooth and nail to keep their disordered eating under control. If you continue to have trouble while you are in the program, you may want to seek out a specialist in bariatric medicine - there is medical treatment for this, and it works for me.

That's helpful thank you.
I have been to see my GP who referred me for counselling and behavioural therapy. None of them have worked, he seems unwilling to refer me to anyone else - not sure he really understands that I have a genuine problem which I have struggled with for years. A referral to a specialist would probably be beneficial but I'm not sure how to access that.

ActionAnnieJXN

squires03071986 wrote: »

ActionAnnieJXN wrote: »

I was in OA. I still use their literature and listen to their podcasts and so forth as a motivational tool, but the 12 step program alone did not resolve my problem. I have binge eating disorder - the only thing that has worked for me is medication prescribed for that disorder by a bariatric doctor (NOT diet pills). In your OA packet, you should have received a pamphlet about freedom of choice - OA chapters are not supposed to tell members what foods they must abstain from. That is for the member to decide together with their sponsor. There are many secret binge eaters in OA who are struggling and fighting tooth and nail to keep their disordered eating under control. If you continue to have trouble while you are in the program, you may want to seek out a specialist in bariatric medicine - there is medical treatment for this, and it works for me.

That's helpful thank you.
I have been to see my GP who referred me for counselling and behavioural therapy. None of them have worked, he seems unwilling to refer me to anyone else - not sure he really understands that I have a genuine problem which I have struggled with for years. A referral to a specialist would probably be beneficial but I'm not sure how to access that.

Sounds like maybe you are in the U.K., so I'm not sure what the next step would be - here in the U.S., I just searched one out online and made the appointment myself. But I also had told several different doctors over the years about my binge eating and they did nothing to really help me.

When I finally sought out and went to a bariatric doctor, he was surprised that no one had ever prescribed medication for B.E.D. since it is the only thing that is known to be truly effective with people who genuinely have the disorder. It is a different animal than general poor eating habits or casual overeating, although I've been known to do all that too, lol. A bariatric doctor could make that distinction and determine the proper course of treatment. I certainly wish you the best. I know how difficult it is to struggle with this.

kshama2001

squires03071986 wrote: »

ActionAnnieJXN wrote: »

I was in OA. I still use their literature and listen to their podcasts and so forth as a motivational tool, but the 12 step program alone did not resolve my problem. I have binge eating disorder - the only thing that has worked for me is medication prescribed for that disorder by a bariatric doctor (NOT diet pills). In your OA packet, you should have received a pamphlet about freedom of choice - OA chapters are not supposed to tell members what foods they must abstain from. That is for the member to decide together with their sponsor. There are many secret binge eaters in OA who are struggling and fighting tooth and nail to keep their disordered eating under control. If you continue to have trouble while you are in the program, you may want to seek out a specialist in bariatric medicine - there is medical treatment for this, and it works for me.

That's helpful thank you.
I have been to see my GP who referred me for counselling and behavioural therapy. None of them have worked, he seems unwilling to refer me to anyone else - not sure he really understands that I have a genuine problem which I have struggled with for years. A referral to a specialist would probably be beneficial but I'm not sure how to access that.

I was just going to suggest cognitive behavioral therapy, which helped me stop abusing alcohol. I later found CBT techniques can be applied to food as well. Perhaps it was the particular therapist? Maybe try another therapist? Checkout this book in the meantime:

This book on Cognitive Behavioral Therapy for overeating was available in my library system, so perhaps yours as well.

The Beck Diet Solution: Train Your Brain to Think Like a Thin Person

Can thinking and eating like a thin person be learned, similar to learning to drive or use a computer? Beck (Cognitive Therapy for Challenging Problems) contends so, based on decades of work with patients who have lost pounds and maintained weight through Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT). Beck's six-week program adapts CBT, a therapeutic system developed by Beck's father, Aaron, in the 1960s, to specific challenges faced by yo-yo dieters, including negative thinking, bargaining, emotional eating, bingeing, and eating out. Beck counsels readers day-by-day, introducing new elements (creating advantage response cards, choosing a diet, enlisting a diet coach, making a weight-loss graph) progressively and offering tools to help readers stay focused (writing exercises, to-do lists, ways to counter negative thoughts). There are no eating plans, calorie counts, recipes or exercises; according to Beck, any healthy diet will work if readers learn to think differently about eating and food. Beck's book is like an extended therapy session with a diet coach. (Apr.)

crzycatlady1

squires03071986 wrote: »

NatureOfMan wrote: »

squires03071986 wrote: »

I think I just feel frustrated, I understand CICO and it clearly works, the science clearly shows how it works. I just can't seem to stick to it.
I can successfully calorie count all week and then binge at the weekend, this then sends me off track. For the last year I have lost and gained the same 10lbs. I have tried hypnosis, behavioural therapy, read every self help book I can think of, been on fad diets (which I wouldn't recommend.) I want to control my urge to eat trigger foods without abstaining entirely.

From face value it seems your bodily hormones could be off. But then again you said you're able to eat normally for the majority of the week, however the weekend isn't so pretty. Knowing your week diet will help a ton.

My question is, what exactly happens on the weekend. How does it start exactly.. I'm assuming it's compulsive so what's the thought process leading up to the first bite of your trigger food?

I suppose I think that I deserve a 'treat' and I decide to have a treat meal so maybe a takeaway or something I wouldn't eat on a daily basis and then I seem to switch back to being 'good.'
My husband has amazing willpower and I watch him lose weight so easily and never struggle to moderate foods

Stop labeling food-this just gives the 'forbidden' ones power. There are no 'bad' foods and there are no 'good' foods. Food is food. Period. And you're not bad or good eating certain foods-get away from that mindset because that takes control away from you and puts it onto the food. YOU control food, it does not have any power over you and it does not control you.

Eat the the foods you're eating on the weekends during the week. Learn how to incorporate all the foods you enjoy into your diet.

I eat fast food several times during the week no problem. If I want a beer on a Tuesday then I'll have a beer on a Tuesday. If I want ice cream on a Thursday then I'll have ice cream on a Thursday. And sometimes I'll have a beer AND ice cream on a Wednesday because I'm just a rebel (adult root beer floats are the most amazing thing ever invented lol).

Focus on what's a realistic and sustainable approach to food-one that you'll be able to do for the next 20, 30, 40+ years.

markrgeary1

Does OA suggest abstinence from sugar or one member?

In other 12 step groups there's a notion about individual members opinions. Kinda like we're sick people trying to get well. Not everyone has their stuff together. I might seek out others who have long term success.

kshama2001

squires03071986 wrote: »

NatureOfMan wrote: »

squires03071986 wrote: »

I think I just feel frustrated, I understand CICO and it clearly works, the science clearly shows how it works. I just can't seem to stick to it.
I can successfully calorie count all week and then binge at the weekend, this then sends me off track. For the last year I have lost and gained the same 10lbs. I have tried hypnosis, behavioural therapy, read every self help book I can think of, been on fad diets (which I wouldn't recommend.) I want to control my urge to eat trigger foods without abstaining entirely.

From face value it seems your bodily hormones could be off. But then again you said you're able to eat normally for the majority of the week, however the weekend isn't so pretty. Knowing your week diet will help a ton.

My question is, what exactly happens on the weekend. How does it start exactly.. I'm assuming it's compulsive so what's the thought process leading up to the first bite of your trigger food?

I suppose I think that I deserve a 'treat' and I decide to have a treat meal so maybe a takeaway or something I wouldn't eat on a daily basis and then I seem to switch back to being 'good.'
My husband has amazing willpower and I watch him lose weight so easily and never struggle to moderate foods

Ah, the Addictive Voice. Rational Recovery helped me with this. Now, what they say below is about never using again. This isn't especially helpful with food, especially if one would like to have the occasional birthday cake. So I reframed it to never use alcohol or food to cope with stress/self-medicate. By changing my relationship with alcohol, I've been able to go from being a heavy daily drinker to being able to have a full bar in the house and only drink once in a blue moon. I did have to stop drinking altogether for a few years before I could get to that point, however. And I'm not suggesting this is something every alcoholic can do. I'm sure complete abstinence is a better strategy for many.

It's trickier with food. I know a "regular" serving of normal birthday cake and ice cream is going to make me feel sick so I have to fight the voice that tells me I deserve a regular serving and just take a small amount. And have a plan so that I am not exposed to leftovers.

A few years ago my addictive voice was telling me I deserved a pint of ice cream after painful dental work. I didn't trust myself around ice cream at all then so had soup instead. I can normally get the 4 oz mini cups and stop but it didn't feel safe then.

With take out, I don't even hear the voice telling me to eat the whole thing at one sitting. It's so quiet and subtle. I just know the addictive voice is there, and be disciplined about immediately dividing it in halves or thirds and having a large salad or lots of vegetables with it and saving the rest for a later meal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rational_Recovery

...The RR program is based on recognizing and defeating what the program refers to as the "addictive voice" (internal thoughts that support self-intoxication) and dissociation from addictive impulses. The specific technique of Addictive Voice Recognition Technique (AVRT) refers to the practice of objectively recognizing any mental thoughts that support or suggest substance use as AV (addictive voice). This passive recognition allows the practitioner to realize that he/she need not do what the AV says, but can effortlessly abstain. This technique relies heavily on basic semantics, essentially relegating the AV to an objectively recognizable "it" and retaining the control and free will of the "I." Rather than saying to oneself, "I drink", one can use AVRT to understand that "I don't want to drink, it (the AV) wants to drink." Once this "separation" is achieved, and the practitioner has personally experienced that he/she is indeed can observe objectively their own addictive voice, maintaining abstinence is a matter of self-control and becomes a personal choice of free will.[9]

https://rational.org/index.php?id=35

kshama2001

Rational Recovery no longer has meetings, but Smart Recovery, which is also based on CBT does. Here is info about meetings in the UK. https://www.smartrecovery.org.uk/meetings/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMART_Recovery

...SMART Recovery is based on scientific knowledge, and is intended to evolve as scientific knowledge evolves.[3] The program uses principles of motivational interviewing found in Motivational Enhancement Therapy (MET),[4] and techniques taken from Cognitive Behavior Therapy (CBT), particularly in the version called Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy (REBT), as well as scientifically validated research on treatment.[5]

The organization's program emphasizes four areas (called the 4-Point Program) in the process of recovery: Building Motivation, Coping with Urges, Problem Solving, and Lifestyle Balance.[6] The "SMART Toolbox" is a collection of various MET, CBT and REBT methods (or "tools") which address the 4 Points.[7]

SMART Recovery can be used as a stand-alone primary recovery support program for those seeking help recovering from addictions, but does not insist on being exclusive.[8]

goldthistime

kshama2001 wrote: »

squires03071986 wrote: »

NatureOfMan wrote: »

squires03071986 wrote: »

I think I just feel frustrated, I understand CICO and it clearly works, the science clearly shows how it works. I just can't seem to stick to it.
I can successfully calorie count all week and then binge at the weekend, this then sends me off track. For the last year I have lost and gained the same 10lbs. I have tried hypnosis, behavioural therapy, read every self help book I can think of, been on fad diets (which I wouldn't recommend.) I want to control my urge to eat trigger foods without abstaining entirely.

From face value it seems your bodily hormones could be off. But then again you said you're able to eat normally for the majority of the week, however the weekend isn't so pretty. Knowing your week diet will help a ton.

My question is, what exactly happens on the weekend. How does it start exactly.. I'm assuming it's compulsive so what's the thought process leading up to the first bite of your trigger food?

I suppose I think that I deserve a 'treat' and I decide to have a treat meal so maybe a takeaway or something I wouldn't eat on a daily basis and then I seem to switch back to being 'good.'
My husband has amazing willpower and I watch him lose weight so easily and never struggle to moderate foods

Ah, the Addictive Voice. Rational Recovery helped me with this. Now, what they say below is about never using again. This isn't especially helpful with food, especially if one would like to have the occasional birthday cake. So I reframed it to never use alcohol or food to cope with stress/self-medicate. By changing my relationship with alcohol, I've been able to go from being a heavy daily drinker to being able to have a full bar in the house and only drink once in a blue moon. I did have to stop drinking altogether for a few years before I could get to that point, however. And I'm not suggesting this is something every alcoholic can do. I'm sure complete abstinence is a better strategy for many.

It's trickier with food. I know a "regular" serving of normal birthday cake and ice cream is going to make me feel sick so I have to fight the voice that tells me I deserve a regular serving and just take a small amount. And have a plan so that I am not exposed to leftovers.

A few years ago my addictive voice was telling me I deserved a pint of ice cream after painful dental work. I didn't trust myself around ice cream at all then so had soup instead. I can normally get the 4 oz mini cups and stop but it didn't feel safe then.

With take out, I don't even hear the voice telling me to eat the whole thing at one sitting. It's so quiet and subtle. I just know the addictive voice is there, and be disciplined about immediately dividing it in halves or thirds and having a large salad or lots of vegetables with it and saving the rest for a later meal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rational_Recovery

...The RR program is based on recognizing and defeating what the program refers to as the "addictive voice" (internal thoughts that support self-intoxication) and dissociation from addictive impulses. The specific technique of Addictive Voice Recognition Technique (AVRT) refers to the practice of objectively recognizing any mental thoughts that support or suggest substance use as AV (addictive voice). This passive recognition allows the practitioner to realize that he/she need not do what the AV says, but can effortlessly abstain. This technique relies heavily on basic semantics, essentially relegating the AV to an objectively recognizable "it" and retaining the control and free will of the "I." Rather than saying to oneself, "I drink", one can use AVRT to understand that "I don't want to drink, it (the AV) wants to drink." Once this "separation" is achieved, and the practitioner has personally experienced that he/she is indeed can observe objectively their own addictive voice, maintaining abstinence is a matter of self-control and becomes a personal choice of free will.[9]

https://rational.org/index.php?id=35

I find the concept of an "addictive voice" really interesting. I've certainly experienced the "I've had a bad day, I deserve this treat" thinking. As well as, "Since it was ok for me to have that treat, it's similarly okay to have another". Then "Since I'm blowing it anyway, I should polish off this bag of cookies so it won't be there to tempt me tomorrow".

Add to that the desire to eat everything quickly. Perhaps before better judgement can step in. Eating quickly also lets me eat big quantities before that overly full feeling has a chance to kick in.

I like the idea of setting rules for yourself that treats are never to be used as medication or comfort. Watching for that addictive voice in general seems like a good idea too.

Something I've done, (did it just this morning in fact), is when I'm craving something sweet, to eat something nutritious that isn't going to bounce my blood sugar around and will help me feel full.

nvmomketo

I've had issues with sugar. I worked at moderating it for years. I failed. I cut it (added sugars) out of my diet and as soon as I put it back in (because I can surely moderate it now, right?) I went down the slippery slope of regaining. I now eat a LCHF diet, keep sugars to an absolute minimum because I can't moderate sugar. Others might one day be able to flip the switch where sugar goes from being a problem food to a no-problem food but I can't. And to be honest, it appears to me that the people who moderate sugars well did not have a large problem with sugar but rather with eating too much food in general. That's just my my observations.

Good luck.

nutmegoreo

A couple other things to consider:

1) How big is your calorie deficit? Sometimes in a rush to get the weight off, we try to lose too fast. I have found that a steep calorie deficit leaves me wanting to consume everything in sight. It has been helpful to have a higher calorie goal. Lose more slowly, and not feel ravenous.

2) Someone has mentioned being tired and stressful moments as contributing factors. Recognizing these, and finding ways to fix them is a great step. If you can't remove the stress (which most of us can't), are there ways in which you can manage it better.

3) This is more of a personal share. I was in your same boat, I just knew that there were some foods that I didn't want to give up. Learning to moderate them too a lot of time. Ice cream, for example. I started by not having it in the house, and would occasionally pick up a single serving container. I would also occasionally pick up a few single serving containers, to test myself. In those early months, more often than not I would end up eating all the ice cream. Over time, I found that I could bring in multiple servings and just have one per day or every second day. As I became more comfortable with that, I moved toward the bigger containers. That's not to say I don't have days where I consume multiple servings, but more often than not, I can now take one and then none for a few days. It was a long process (two years), but it was something that I felt so strongly about.

4) When I had a day like this, it is was important for me to break the cycle of feeling guilt and shame. I would eat something "bad" and then I felt "bad" for not having any self-control and then I was "bad" because I suck at dieting. The day I stopped labeling foods as "good" and "bad" was the day I stopped feeling guilty when I consumed a cookie. I began to realize that I could have a cookie, within my limits, and sometimes over limits, and still lose weight. I had to stop defining myself as a failure when my food choices were even the slightest bit less than optimal.

Sorry, that was long. Some of it may not apply to you, so ignore. Hopefully something in there is helpful.

150poundsofme

I saw a nutritionist in December at about the same time I started OA and got a sponsor. The sponsor is having me work the steps (reading the 12 steps along with writing in the workbook). The dietician told me that her profession does not believe in OA - restricting foods. My sponsor told me to get a new dietician. Dietician wants me to eat carbs (like bread, cereal, rice, pasta) at all 3 meals. I told her a few days later that I had a problem with that. Usually when I am on a diet I will eat one full serving of carbs a day (approx 200 calories). That is how I do lose weight though I do eventually end up binging. She said I could have two a day then though she wasn't happy. My sponsor wants me off gluten/sugar (like she is). Sometimes I am fine eating an extra carb or snack. But then I think maybe it is too many exceptions that I end up binging or maybe someone annoyed me that got me going way off my food plan. I have always been confused as to what I can and cannot eat. To say I can eat anything doesn't work for someone with binge eating disorder for over 40 years. To have those foods I love (carbs) in my house, I would just eat in one day until all gone. I am going back to dietician Monday with questions for her. You see, I believe she is trying to get me to not binge eat and diet. But I need and want to lose weight so I am anxious that I can't do both or do it in a good amount of time. All I know it is a struggle every day. Sometimes when you do restrict food, it might be easier on the brain because you don't have to make any decisions on whether to eat the food or not. You would know it is not. Oh, and my sponsor said that she doesn't eat sugar but when I questioned her on what she eats in a restaurant, she says she does eat french fries (I guess not a trigger for her) and she has regular salad dressing. So I guess everyone picks and chooses what they will or will not avoid.

PaulaWallaDingDong

150poundsofme wrote: »

I saw a nutritionist in December at about the same time I started OA and got a sponsor. The sponsor is having me work the steps (reading the 12 steps along with writing in the workbook). The dietician told me that her profession does not believe in OA - restricting foods. My sponsor told me to get a new dietician. Dietician wants me to eat carbs (like bread, cereal, rice, pasta) at all 3 meals. I told her a few days later that I had a problem with that. Usually when I am on a diet I will eat one full serving of carbs a day (approx 200 calories). That is how I do lose weight though I do eventually end up binging. She said I could have two a day then though she wasn't happy. My sponsor wants me off gluten/sugar (like she is). Sometimes I am fine eating an extra carb or snack. But then I think maybe it is too many exceptions that I end up binging or maybe someone annoyed me that got me going way off my food plan. I have always been confused as to what I can and cannot eat. To say I can eat anything doesn't work for someone with binge eating disorder for over 40 years. To have those foods I love (carbs) in my house, I would just eat in one day until all gone. I am going back to dietician Monday with questions for her. You see, I believe she is trying to get me to not binge eat and diet. But I need and want to lose weight so I am anxious that I can't do both or do it in a good amount of time. All I know it is a struggle every day. Sometimes when you do restrict food, it might be easier on the brain because you don't have to make any decisions on whether to eat the food or not. You would know it is not. Oh, and my sponsor said that she doesn't eat sugar but when I questioned her on what she eats in a restaurant, she says she does eat french fries (I guess not a trigger for her) and she has regular salad dressing. So I guess everyone picks and chooses what they will or will not avoid.

I think I'd lose my mind. Your dietitian AND your sponsor should be interested in identifying and helping you to work around YOUR triggers, not advising you based on what they "believe."

kshama2001

goldthistime wrote: »

kshama2001 wrote: »

squires03071986 wrote: »

NatureOfMan wrote: »

squires03071986 wrote: »

I think I just feel frustrated, I understand CICO and it clearly works, the science clearly shows how it works. I just can't seem to stick to it.
I can successfully calorie count all week and then binge at the weekend, this then sends me off track. For the last year I have lost and gained the same 10lbs. I have tried hypnosis, behavioural therapy, read every self help book I can think of, been on fad diets (which I wouldn't recommend.) I want to control my urge to eat trigger foods without abstaining entirely.

From face value it seems your bodily hormones could be off. But then again you said you're able to eat normally for the majority of the week, however the weekend isn't so pretty. Knowing your week diet will help a ton.

My question is, what exactly happens on the weekend. How does it start exactly.. I'm assuming it's compulsive so what's the thought process leading up to the first bite of your trigger food?

I suppose I think that I deserve a 'treat' and I decide to have a treat meal so maybe a takeaway or something I wouldn't eat on a daily basis and then I seem to switch back to being 'good.'
My husband has amazing willpower and I watch him lose weight so easily and never struggle to moderate foods

Ah, the Addictive Voice. Rational Recovery helped me with this. Now, what they say below is about never using again. This isn't especially helpful with food, especially if one would like to have the occasional birthday cake. So I reframed it to never use alcohol or food to cope with stress/self-medicate. By changing my relationship with alcohol, I've been able to go from being a heavy daily drinker to being able to have a full bar in the house and only drink once in a blue moon. I did have to stop drinking altogether for a few years before I could get to that point, however. And I'm not suggesting this is something every alcoholic can do. I'm sure complete abstinence is a better strategy for many.

It's trickier with food. I know a "regular" serving of normal birthday cake and ice cream is going to make me feel sick so I have to fight the voice that tells me I deserve a regular serving and just take a small amount. And have a plan so that I am not exposed to leftovers.

A few years ago my addictive voice was telling me I deserved a pint of ice cream after painful dental work. I didn't trust myself around ice cream at all then so had soup instead. I can normally get the 4 oz mini cups and stop but it didn't feel safe then.

With take out, I don't even hear the voice telling me to eat the whole thing at one sitting. It's so quiet and subtle. I just know the addictive voice is there, and be disciplined about immediately dividing it in halves or thirds and having a large salad or lots of vegetables with it and saving the rest for a later meal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rational_Recovery

...The RR program is based on recognizing and defeating what the program refers to as the "addictive voice" (internal thoughts that support self-intoxication) and dissociation from addictive impulses. The specific technique of Addictive Voice Recognition Technique (AVRT) refers to the practice of objectively recognizing any mental thoughts that support or suggest substance use as AV (addictive voice). This passive recognition allows the practitioner to realize that he/she need not do what the AV says, but can effortlessly abstain. This technique relies heavily on basic semantics, essentially relegating the AV to an objectively recognizable "it" and retaining the control and free will of the "I." Rather than saying to oneself, "I drink", one can use AVRT to understand that "I don't want to drink, it (the AV) wants to drink." Once this "separation" is achieved, and the practitioner has personally experienced that he/she is indeed can observe objectively their own addictive voice, maintaining abstinence is a matter of self-control and becomes a personal choice of free will.[9]

https://rational.org/index.php?id=35

I find the concept of an "addictive voice" really interesting. I've certainly experienced the "I've had a bad day, I deserve this treat" thinking. As well as, "Since it was ok for me to have that treat, it's similarly okay to have another". Then "Since I'm blowing it anyway, I should polish off this bag of cookies so it won't be there to tempt me tomorrow".

Add to that the desire to eat everything quickly. Perhaps before better judgement can step in. Eating quickly also lets me eat big quantities before that overly full feeling has a chance to kick in.

I like the idea of setting rules for yourself that treats are never to be used as medication or comfort. Watching for that addictive voice in general seems like a good idea too.

Something I've done, (did it just this morning in fact), is when I'm craving something sweet, to eat something nutritious that isn't going to bounce my blood sugar around and will help me feel full.

All really great examples of the addictive voice.