Struggling with Running Scheduke

Charlene_1985

Hi All,

I am currently running about 30 miles per week. I run 6, 4, 6, off , a speed 5, and a slow 90 minutes which is about 9.5-10 miles, off. I feel like I'm struggling with the distances and subsequent calorie burn. I keep losing weight at this point unintentionally but don't find myself want to eat more as my stomach becomes uncomfortable. I think my fitness is starting to suffer. But I don't know if it's a fueling issue or if I am overtraining. Should I replace a run day with equal time on my road bike? I am 31, F, 5'4", 122lbs. I love running and travel a lot so substituting it for other activities is not always an option. Which avenue should I explore first? More food and same schedule or same food and reduced schedule? I've been posting about 500 calories a day deficits and I am losing more than a pound per week since the New Year (I've been a runner for years). My recent physical was top notch and bloodwork was too.

MeanderingMammal

What's your training objective?

What you describe is maintenance level, allowing you to do a half marathon or ten mile once a month, or enter a marathon plan.

Your deficit sounds a bit aggressive though, which I'd suggest is part of your problem.

sarabushby

How many calories are you on and what's your macro split? I am a similar age/height/weight and I train usually 6x a week but as it's for Triathlon I mix up my running, biking & swimming. Fuelling properly is imperative so as not to impact your endurance & power/strength/speed. So too is hydration - don't forget the importance of that even if you don't feel like eating.

Have you tried some high energy foods pre-run, toast with peanut butter & jam or a banana or an energy bar for example? Do you drink energy drink or take gels in your long run? Can you stomach a carb/protein blend recovery drink after your exercise?

Adequate protein AND carbs are very important for your recovery.

TavistockToad

What are you training for? If you need that amount of miles then I would say peanut butter... or reduce your miles.

Charlene_1985

I eat about 50C/30F/20P on average. I like to race at the 5K-15K distances and I do a Sprint Triathlon each Memorial Day weekend. I've been eating around 1900-2100 per day which is a struggle with time. I'm active at work and usually log around 25K steps per day, more on long run days. I also like to swim when I can but my work schedule does not allow that to happen consistently.

I'm a flight attendant so I run to get fresh air and to get away from people. I find walking to be a tad boring so I run to sightsee on my layovers. I also play tennis and golf, but again without any consistency except for when I can at home.

Preworkout is usually a Lender's bagel with jam and either cereal or a package of oatmeal. Sometimes coffee if it's a morning run, water in the afternoon. I drink 20oz of Gatorade after.

GottaBurnEmAll

MeanderingMammal wrote: »

What's your training objective?

What you describe is maintenance level, allowing you to do a half marathon or ten mile once a month, or enter a marathon plan.

Your deficit sounds a bit aggressive though, which I'd suggest is part of your problem.

I agree that your deficit is aggressive.

I'm simply a recreational runner with a schedule nowhere near yours, and I can't manage a 500 calorie deficit and keep up with my running at all. 250-300 is all I can manage. For reference, I'm 54, 5'1" and 115 pounds. I run 3-4 miles 5 days a week and 5ish miles 1 day.

JessM822

It honestly sounds like a fueling problem. I have a pretty intense training schedule and if I don't fuel right I feel it, and so do my results. Like the reply above I'm a triathlete training for an Ironman.
Cross training can't hurt. Riding your bike once a week instead of running could really help. Everybody's body is different though. Try new things and see how you feel.

Charlene_1985

Thanks I'll try to increase my calories and see if that helps. I really don't need to lose more weight.

sarabushby

Interesting! Sounds like you have all the right stuff going on just need to try and sneak in a few extra calories to reduce that 500c deficit. I maintain on about 2100-2200 I think, with 6-10hrs training per week. I too would lose on 1900 and I know from experience that too high a deficit or too low carbs MAJORLY impacts my performance. Literally I can be running 1min/km slower just from not fuelling properly.

The peanut butter suggestion is good in terms of calorie density. A 500c smoothie would be quite easy to put together although maybe not if you're away from home a lot? Adding a post run SIS REGO carb/protein shake on its own would be 180cal (or have chocolate nesquick milk that's 1/10th of the price and the same except for not having magnesium!)

BeeerRunner

If you aren't trying to lose weight, i would bump up the calories. I'm jealous and wish I could eat that much!! Lol! I've got about 10 years on you, am 5'7" and around 125 +/- 2 lbs. I've been running over 40 miles per week lately getting ready for a marathon. I've gotta stay around a net of 1500 to maintain, but I've got a desk job. Protein bars are pretty high in calories and are a good after run snack. I'm addicted to dry cereal as a snack and eat way too much of it which is why I have no problems maintaining. Honey nut cheerios and Cinnamon Life. Yum!!

sarabushby

@BeeerRunner
I LOVE a bowl of cereal!!! This is my complete vice. But I guess at least it is protein and carbs my favourite is granola though so really calorific! Not a bad shout for OP actually.
My net would be about 1600 I think so pretty similar to yourself.

ronocnikral

what are your goals? Since this is fitness and exercise I'll go out on a limb...one mistake many people make is they don't train hard enough on their hard days and not easy enough on their easy days. For instance, there is no real advantage to you running your 6/4/6 "in the middle" on back to back days. And your easy "90 mins" should truly be easy and fun (and it probably is). You shouldn't feel like you are panting and should be able to talk the entire time. And weather you run 6 or 7 miles vs 9.5-10 miles doesn't really matter for the avg person.

Slowing down on all but one or 2 days a week should allow you to recover better, really work your AEROBIC system, will lower the amount of calories you are burning and hopefully help you get down some more calories since you're probably glycogen depleted on your current training program.

If you want to run, cycling brings minimal benefits to your running. If you want to run, you're better off slowing down while running than getting on a bike.

Charlene_1985

I run fast on the 5 miler, and very slow on the 90 minute run. The 6/4/6 is pretty slow though once a month I make the first 6 a 10K and try to run it hard. My hard runs are close to 8:15, slow runs around 9:30, give or take weather and terrain. I love ricotta cheese so maybe I'll add 1/2c of that to my diet. That'll give me close to 200 calories I'm sure. .

rybo

Eat more. Lots of calorie dense options out there, nuts & nut butters, full fat dairy, ice cream etc.

ronocnikral

Charlene_Marie_723 wrote: »

I run fast on the 5 miler, and very slow on the 90 minute run. The 6/4/6 is pretty slow though once a month I make the first 6 a 10K and try to run it hard. My hard runs are close to 8:15, slow runs around 9:30, give or take weather and terrain. I love ricotta cheese so maybe I'll add 1/2c of that to my diet. That'll give me close to 200 calories I'm sure. .

I would expect the spread between "easy" and "hard" to be greater. Do you wear a HRM? Can you breathe solely through your nose on your "easy" runs?

Good call on the cheese!

spiriteagle99

Try to eat back more of your exercise calories. You might also try drinking juice or eating a banana just prior to your harder/longer runs to help with energy, or even taking a Gu or other Gel or drinking some of your Gatorade during your long run if you need to. How about water? Do you drink during your hard/long runs? Dehydration can impact your energy as well.

Charlene_1985

Yes, the slow runs are very slow. HR is around 170 on hard days, 140ish on slow days. I'm better conditioned in the very cold vs the very hot so my last long run came in around 8:45/mile but it was 18 degrees and HR was in the 140s for the most part. I'll add in some calories for a few weeks and see how that goes. I run this schedule for 3 weeks and then run 1/2 it on the 4th week as an active recovery week by the way.

Charlene_1985

I bring water if it's either over an hour OR if the temp is above 70 OR if I am running in a new city as I don't want to end up thirsty and dehydrated if I get lost. Maybe I'll start bringing Gatorade on my long run. Thanks for all the feedback.

ronocnikral

Charlene_Marie_723 wrote: »

Yes, the slow runs are very slow. HR is around 170 on hard days, 140ish on slow days. I'm better conditioned in the very cold vs the very hot so my last long run came in around 8:45/mile but it was 18 degrees and HR was in the 140s for the most part. I'll add in some calories for a few weeks and see how that goes. I run this schedule for 3 weeks and then run 1/2 it on the 4th week as an active recovery week by the way.

I would expect "easy" days to be sub 130 bpm. You can train just 2 muscle types. Training them separately and then working on some "combing" days prior to an event has shown to be an effective training method. Training in "no man's land" while effective initially, eventually leads to plateauing, over training etc. Unless you've had some physiological testing done (blood lactate) to show you can train in the 140's on your "easy" days....

The best book I've read on the subject is "Training for the new alpinism" by Scott Johnston and steve house. While geared towards big days on big mountains, Scott has coached many world class XC skiers. A lot of it is based on the same training plans of Bob Bowman in charge of USA swimming. And Bowman gets his stuff from Jan Olbrecht, who had swimmers win gold in rio in the 100m and 10,000m. He also coach Luc Van Lierde in the 90's to his ironman wins.

Advice worth the price charged....

BeeerRunner

ronocnikral wrote: »

Charlene_Marie_723 wrote: »

Yes, the slow runs are very slow. HR is around 170 on hard days, 140ish on slow days. I'm better conditioned in the very cold vs the very hot so my last long run came in around 8:45/mile but it was 18 degrees and HR was in the 140s for the most part. I'll add in some calories for a few weeks and see how that goes. I run this schedule for 3 weeks and then run 1/2 it on the 4th week as an active recovery week by the way.

I would expect "easy" days to be sub 130 bpm. You can train just 2 muscle types. Training them separately and then working on some "combing" days prior to an event has shown to be an effective training method. Training in "no man's land" while effective initially, eventually leads to plateauing, over training etc. Unless you've had some physiological testing done (blood lactate) to show you can train in the 140's on your "easy" days....

The best book I've read on the subject is "Training for the new alpinism" by Scott Johnston and steve house. While geared towards big days on big mountains, Scott has coached many world class XC skiers. A lot of it is based on the same training plans of Bob Bowman in charge of USA swimming. And Bowman gets his stuff from Jan Olbrecht, who had swimmers win gold in rio in the 100m and 10,000m. He also coach Luc Van Lierde in the 90's to his ironman wins.

Advice worth the price charged....

Please note that you can't give a stranger advice on what her average heart rate should be on easy days. Everyone is different and the age groupings are not accurate either. For example, my Zone 1 is 154 or less. I can't imagine staying at 130 or less. My easy run today was 144 and I sang or breathed easy the entire run.

Here is how you figure out your own individual LTHR and can then figure out your zones. Everyone is different and women typically have higher heart rates than men.

http://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/article/joe-friel-s-quick-guide-to-setting-zones

Charlene_1985

So I felt like an overfilled water balloon yesterday but ate 2300 calories and ran great today. Definitely had a bit more pep in my step today during my run (which was supposed to be a 4 miler but I had to swap it for tomorrow's 6 because of my work schedule) but had a bathroom emergency for the third run with PB and J fueling so that won't work. Ha! Maybe I'll make that my tasty post workout treat. Thanks again for all the responses and tips. I guess my stomach will get used to eating more over time; but it's so hard to eat a lot and deal with the bloat that comes with flying all day everyday.

ronocnikral

BeeerRunner wrote: »

ronocnikral wrote: »

Charlene_Marie_723 wrote: »

Yes, the slow runs are very slow. HR is around 170 on hard days, 140ish on slow days. I'm better conditioned in the very cold vs the very hot so my last long run came in around 8:45/mile but it was 18 degrees and HR was in the 140s for the most part. I'll add in some calories for a few weeks and see how that goes. I run this schedule for 3 weeks and then run 1/2 it on the 4th week as an active recovery week by the way.

I would expect "easy" days to be sub 130 bpm. You can train just 2 muscle types. Training them separately and then working on some "combing" days prior to an event has shown to be an effective training method. Training in "no man's land" while effective initially, eventually leads to plateauing, over training etc. Unless you've had some physiological testing done (blood lactate) to show you can train in the 140's on your "easy" days....

The best book I've read on the subject is "Training for the new alpinism" by Scott Johnston and steve house. While geared towards big days on big mountains, Scott has coached many world class XC skiers. A lot of it is based on the same training plans of Bob Bowman in charge of USA swimming. And Bowman gets his stuff from Jan Olbrecht, who had swimmers win gold in rio in the 100m and 10,000m. He also coach Luc Van Lierde in the 90's to his ironman wins.

Advice worth the price charged....

Please note that you can't give a stranger advice on what her average heart rate should be on easy days. Everyone is different and the age groupings are not accurate either. For example, my Zone 1 is 154 or less. I can't imagine staying at 130 or less. My easy run today was 144 and I sang or breathed easy the entire run.

Here is how you figure out your own individual LTHR and can then figure out your zones. Everyone is different and women typically have higher heart rates than men.

http://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/article/joe-friel-s-quick-guide-to-setting-zones

I get that, but absent any actual testing (and I don't count that training peaks thing), what else do you have to hang your hat on?? I know what I do, but I get that most people don't want to get blood lactate testing done every 6-8 weeks plus monitor muscle oxygenation. But, there is very little evidence that exercising right up to your LTHR has any benefits. In fact, many coaches argue that taking time, energy and money into finding that "magic" number doesn't make sense since you can train well below and well above and have the same, if not better training effects.

We can go round and round, but since I can too "sing and breath easy" well into the mid 140's, I still do my "Easy" runs sub 130. So, it may or may not apply, but I also threw out that the "advice was worth the price charged."

Good luck.