What would you do? Almost dog bite.

_SASX_

Yesterday while my Dh and I were away at a Warrior Dash - Go me! My son was staying at my parent's place. There were a lot of family and friends there for a fun games weekend. My brother has a rottweiler that is a rescue from a neglected home. This dog is always on leash and never left unattended. The kids were all playing and running etc. they had water guns. They were spraying anything and everything. The dogs were drinking from the waterguns, then all of a sudden,, my brother's dog lunges at my son, tearing his shirtsleeve and leaving a hole on the other side of the sleeve. The dog was whisked away at once and not a scratch was on my son. The adults all 5 that were standing there handled things maturely and calmly so as not to freak my son out. My sister in law actually left with the dog, she was so upset that he'd do that.

When we came to pick up my son today and spend some time with family, I was told about it in a softer version...kids making a ruckus....dog fed up,,,just tore the shirt a bit. OK, I thought. Kids were told to stop (who actually made sure this happened?) no one. 5 adults right there and not one took the waterguns away when they told the kids to stop. then the dog lunged. (no warning growl or anything)

After I thought about it for a bit-a little shocked and thought through the soft version...my son was almost bitten by a full grown rottie. not a puppy. but a full sized, previously abused, on-leash dog. it doesn't really matter the breed. We will not be at the house again if that dog is there. If he can lunge at my kid once, he'll do it again. or to someone else. with no warnings. the dog wasn't even trying to move away before hand.

What would you do?
We have dogs and my son is around dogs all the time and he knows not to bug them - because they can growl to let you know they need space etc...but he will not be around this dog again. and my hubby is even more than mad-

would you say no more of 'that' dog where you are?
would you do something more?

workoutdood

Kind of impossible to say not seeing the incident.
The dog may have been trying to play, and just ended up biting your son's shirt. Rotty's have big mouths, I'd have to imagine if he wanted to bite your son maliciously he would have.

All in all, I wouldn't leave your son unattended around the dog ever though

clydethecat

i'm biased, because i dont like dogs for just this reason. they can be flightly and can react badly at a moments notice.

that being said, i would keep my kid away from this dog. it may have just been in fun and a playful reaction, but that may be worse. a dog thats playful and bites is bad.

never put your kid in harms way. this seems like harms way.

TeachTheGirl

Make sure the owner of the dog knows you're not comfortable with the events that occurred and you'd prefer the dog not to be around your child if your child is visiting the residence.

I think it's only natural that a rescue might have a moment of fear and 'lash out' and unless you saw the event transpire, I wouldn't take it any farther as you don't know for sure the events surrounding the 'almost' bite.

LorinaLynn

Make sure the owner of the dog knows you're not comfortable with the events that occurred and you'd prefer the dog not to be around your child if your child is visiting the residence.

I think it's only natural that a rescue might have a moment of fear and 'lash out' and unless you saw the event transpire, I wouldn't take it any farther as you don't know for sure the events surrounding the 'almost' bite.

This. I think that's perfectly reasonable. And I'm a dog person. I have a fairly weird rescue dog with an unknown past. I know he's unpredictable, so I wouldn't be offended if a family member said, "Hey, can you keep the dog away from my kid?" I prefer to avoid situations where he can feel overwhelmed and/or I can't pay close attention to his body language.

Sometimes abused dogs get punished so much for growling or snarling or biting that they skip the warning phase and go right to action.

kaned_ferret

Make sure the owner of the dog knows you're not comfortable with the events that occurred and you'd prefer the dog not to be around your child if your child is visiting the residence.

I think it's only natural that a rescue might have a moment of fear and 'lash out' and unless you saw the event transpire, I wouldn't take it any farther as you don't know for sure the events surrounding the 'almost' bite.

This. I think that's perfectly reasonable. And I'm a dog person. I have a fairly weird rescue dog with an unknown past. I know he's unpredictable, so I wouldn't be offended if a family member said, "Hey, can you keep the dog away from my kid?" I prefer to avoid situations where he can feel overwhelmed and/or I can't pay close attention to his body language.

Sometimes abused dogs get punished so much for growling or snarling or biting that they skip the warning phase and go right to action.

Both great replies. I am a trainer and behaviour advisor and have worked with rescues and aggression cases for a long time. It's not the dogs fault for responding to the cumulative stress it was under, but having said that the family needs to implement better protocols for visitors in future, both for their safety and for the dogs sense of security. I can point them in the direction of a good behaviourist. Locally if you like?

kaned_ferret

Also, the fact that it was just a torn shirt believe it or not indicates good bite inhibition on the dogs part which is certainly positive

_SASX_

My DH talked to a friend who is with the police. this dog has already been reported for violent behaviour while with the previous owners, and the only reason he didn't bite skin is because my son was already moving away. I agree that the dog should not have been put under those kind of stressful conditions, and there needs to be safety measures put into place but that was the choice of his owner, and they removed the dog right after the incident.

DH is more than mad about this, and because this dog has been violent before and even with his current owners (no biting, but close a few times) we are making sure that we will not be where the dog is. I have made that clear to my parents (whose house this happened at), and DH will be talking to my brother about this tomorrow when things have calmed down a little bit. DH wants the dog put down. I'm not sure how I feel about it, but it only missed biting skin because my son was already moving...

onwarddownward

My son was face bitten by a schnauzer. I never went over to that house again. If they won't crate dogs around kids, then my kids don't go.

I love dogs, but seriously, any dog can and will bite, under stress and in certain circumstances. What were they thinking to have this horseplay around a dog with an abusive background.

greenmonstergirl

Legally the dog doesn't have to be put down because of an "almost" bite.

You can keep the kid away from that dog though and that's what you should do.

LorinaLynn

The dog shouldn't be put down because the owners failed to pay close enough attention to it.

MamaCass30

My 6 year old son was bitten on the side of the face by a dog that wore a muzzle on a daily basis while visiting his dads for the weekend. Dad was negligent in putting the muzzle on the dog when he woke up first thing in the AM and my son paid the price for that. Ended up needing 5 stitches in his cheek & ear.

Needless to say, my children never stepped foot in that house again.

Granted, my story is a bit different from yours as my child was actually bitten, but I think for the future, your son shouldn't be around the dog. Yes, it was probably a loud, boisterous situation for everyone involved and the dog reacted badly to that, but it's not the dogs fault he was conditioned to bite first, "ask" questions later.

So, in conclusion, I would just avoid my son being in the dog's general vicinity for everyone's sanity & safety.

JessicaBR13

Kind of impossible to say not seeing the incident.
The dog may have been trying to play, and just ended up biting your son's shirt. Rotty's have big mouths, I'd have to imagine if he wanted to bite your son maliciously he would have.

All in all, I wouldn't leave your son unattended around the dog ever though

^Exactly this.

peggymdellinger

Animals in general are unpredictable, but all the more so when they have had abuse in their past (most, not all...). A friend of mine has a rescue rottweiler that was abused. She snapped at me once and at my husband once and just barely clipped his hand. We now won't go to their house unless they put the dog in her pen. She weighs 120 lbs and if she felt threatened or got irritated she could easily take out myself, my husband, or one of my children. That's not a chance that I'm willing to take.

workoutdood

If the dog has a bad history, explain to your brother you don't feel comfortable with your son around the dog b/c of the history. I imagine he'd probably understand. If you tell someone to put there dog down, you'll probably receive a response of something to the tune of F U & you'll likely ruin that family relationship

whierd

Talk to him about it. Tell him that you feel that the situation was allowed to get out of hand and they should have been more careful with a previously abused dog. Suggest training for it.

MyM0wM0w

I think it's perfectly reasonable to tell them that you don't want the dog near your kid anymore. There's not much else you can do, but if they are responsible pet owners they'll make sure it's not allowed near kids again at all.

CyberEd312

Make sure the owner of the dog knows you're not comfortable with the events that occurred and you'd prefer the dog not to be around your child if your child is visiting the residence.

I think it's only natural that a rescue might have a moment of fear and 'lash out' and unless you saw the event transpire, I wouldn't take it any farther as you don't know for sure the events surrounding the 'almost' bite.

This. I think that's perfectly reasonable. And I'm a dog person. I have a fairly weird rescue dog with an unknown past. I know he's unpredictable, so I wouldn't be offended if a family member said, "Hey, can you keep the dog away from my kid?" I prefer to avoid situations where he can feel overwhelmed and/or I can't pay close attention to his body language.

Sometimes abused dogs get punished so much for growling or snarling or biting that they skip the warning phase and go right to action.

Both great replies. I am a trainer and behaviour advisor and have worked with rescues and aggression cases for a long time. It's not the dogs fault for responding to the cumulative stress it was under, but having said that the family needs to implement better protocols for visitors in future, both for their safety and for the dogs sense of security. I can point them in the direction of a good behaviourist. Locally if you like?

agreed..... I raised Rottweilers and am so disgusted (not directing this at the OP just a general statement) with society views of these larger breeds. There is seldom bad dogs just bad owners that leads to the aggressive nature of any dog, do to not socializing the dog or intentional creating a dog that will be aggressive by nature and these larger breeds get the blunt of it because of their size and ability of inflicting more bodily harm. Having said that If this Rott was being hosed with water guns to the point of aggravation, it should have never gotten to that point. I have 5 grandkids that I wouldn't stop from being around any of our rescue dogs but never out of my/our supervision and Never would they be allowed to mistreat the dog to the point of causing undo stress to the dog which common sense would tell you that the two don't mix and an incident would more than likely occur... I am glad your son is ok but I will always side with the dog cause in my eyes the problem always lies with the owners.... Just my opinion... I have raised my Rottweilers through puppy school, CGC classes but even after all that I have enough common sense to know there is no way I would have put him (140 lbs.) in the same room unattended with any of our grandkids they are to likely to pull on ears, etc, etc that could provoke an incident but our grandchildren have always been instructed on how to treat a dog and also instructed on what not to do...

Lutah7

I do search and rescue and work with fairly high drive dogs. First off it doesn't sound to me like your brother would resent the request that the dog not be around your son. I guess it sounded to me like they had been fairly careful, though maybe they erred in correctly reading the dog or watching every second. We live in a world where blame is huge. The facts are your son is ok, which is really all hat matters for right now. But for future events, I think this dog should probably stay home. I'm extremely conservative on the issue of dogs putting their mouths on humans.... In ANY way, and my dogs are titled and trained to bite. But they are dogs. They are not furry humans. They grip because it is a basic instinct, it is not a moral or ethical conundrum.

My concern would be to question your son, see how he feels, and keep him safe. As a parent that is priority #1. I think it is more than within your rights to request that this dog not be around running screaming, giggling kids (which is really hard for a lot of dogs).

Good luck.

PikaKnight

Make sure the owner of the dog knows you're not comfortable with the events that occurred and you'd prefer the dog not to be around your child if your child is visiting the residence.

I think it's only natural that a rescue might have a moment of fear and 'lash out' and unless you saw the event transpire, I wouldn't take it any farther as you don't know for sure the events surrounding the 'almost' bite.

This. I think that's perfectly reasonable. And I'm a dog person. I have a fairly weird rescue dog with an unknown past. I know he's unpredictable, so I wouldn't be offended if a family member said, "Hey, can you keep the dog away from my kid?" I prefer to avoid situations where he can feel overwhelmed and/or I can't pay close attention to his body language.

Sometimes abused dogs get punished so much for growling or snarling or biting that they skip the warning phase and go right to action.

Both great replies. I am a trainer and behaviour advisor and have worked with rescues and aggression cases for a long time. It's not the dogs fault for responding to the cumulative stress it was under, but having said that the family needs to implement better protocols for visitors in future, both for their safety and for the dogs sense of security. I can point them in the direction of a good behaviourist. Locally if you like?

agreed..... I raised Rottweilers and am so disgusted (not directing this at the OP just a general statement) with society views of these larger breeds. There is seldom bad dogs just bad owners that leads to the aggressive nature of any dog, do to not socializing the dog or intentional creating a dog that will be aggressive by nature and these larger breeds get the blunt of it because of their size and ability of inflicting more bodily harm. Having said that If this Rott was being hosed with water guns to the point of aggravation, it should have never gotten to that point. I have 5 grandkids that I wouldn't stop from being around any of our rescue dogs but never out of my/our supervision and Never would they be allowed to mistreat the dog to the point of causing undo stress to the dog which common sense would tell you that the two don't mix and an incident would more than likely occur... I am glad your son is ok but I will always side with the dog cause in my eyes the problem always lies with the owners.... Just my opinion... I have raised my Rottweilers through puppy school, CGC classes but even after all that I have enough common sense to know there is no way I would have put him (140 lbs.) in the same room unattended with any of our grandkids they are to likely to pull on ears, etc, etc that could provoke an incident but our grandchildren have always been instructed on how to treat a dog and also instructed on what not to do...

It irks me when people focus blame on the dog and not the owner. In this case, it was definitely the adults' fault for not stepping in and the kids should also be talked to and taught to respect animals. That dogs don't like to be teased and taunted...in this case - shot with waterguns. it's the responsibility of the owner to socialize and work past behavioural issues and the responsibility of parents to teach their kids how to act and treat animals.

datguy2011

Check things out with your child first... as he is number one.

Second, try to get the dog back with your son... make sure the dog knows it's at fault, although the owner should be more responsible around the pet.

pittbullgirl

I do search and rescue and work with fairly high drive dogs. First off it doesn't sound to me like your brother would resent the request that the dog not be around your son. I guess it sounded to me like they had been fairly careful, though maybe they erred in correctly reading the dog or watching every second. We live in a world where blame is huge. The facts are your son is ok, which is really all hat matters for right now. But for future events, I think this dog should probably stay home. I'm extremely conservative on the issue of dogs putting their mouths on humans.... In ANY way, and my dogs are titled and trained to bite. But they are dogs. They are not furry humans. They grip because it is a basic instinct, it is not a moral or ethical conundrum.

My concern would be to question your son, see how he feels, and keep him safe. As a parent that is priority #1. I think it is more than within your rights to request that this dog not be around running screaming, giggling kids (which is really hard for a lot of dogs).

Good luck.

Perfectly said.

Binkie1955

I have two Kuvasz and one of them did once bite a kid under different circumstances than yours but the reality is that dogs do bite and unfortunately running children simply provokes their hunting instincts. most of your books on dog safety will mention that running provokes them to chase and hunt so for a poorly socialized animal this was an extremely challenging situation. you handled it right but going forward, if children are running and playing, the dogs should be in their kennels.

Lutah7

I have two Kuvasz and one of them did once bite a kid under different circumstances than yours but the reality is that dogs do bite and unfortunately running children simply provokes their hunting instincts. most of your books on dog safety will mention that running provokes them to chase and hunt so for a poorly socialized animal this was an extremely challenging situation. you handled it right but going forward, if children are running and playing, the dogs should be in their kennels.

Spot on in my opinion. Well said.

shadowkat57

Sounds like a very stressful situation for a rescue dog - and a scary one for you.
For your son's sake, he needs to have some positive doggy interactions so he doesn't develop a phobia.
Dog's owners need to respect their dog's vulnerabilities, and their guests' safety... And probs talk to a trainer about behaviour management.

Ed98043

I ran a dog rescue for 13 years and I can tell you that the vast majority of bites happen to boys under the age of 10. There's something about their level of activity, the noise they make and their movements that really sets dogs off if they're prone to biting. I think it's perfectly reasonable to ask that the dog be put away when the kids are around.

On a side note: The Rottweiler rescue person that I knew told me that anytime she took in a dog was over about 10 months old, there was basically nothing that could be done about their unpredictability and potential aggression. Because of their breeding (and this goes for all Mastiff-type breeds) they have innate feelings of protectiveness and aggression and they have to be taught right from wrong when they're "teenagers" or they're just never going to be fully trustworthy. A rescue dog of a mastiff breed is never 100% predictable if you don't know their past, and if they came from an abuse or neglect situation it's even worse odds. This dog's owners should have done their homework and realized that squealing, fast-moving kids was not a good situation to have that dog in.

rhinesb

My view,

Sounds like there is some good advice already.

First: The dog would have to be put away when you and your children are there. I have three dogs and one of them can be aggressive. We got her as a two month old puppy and we were VERY careful about properly training her with children and food etc... She was never abused just naturally an alpha dog. She looks like a brown rottie but she is actually 1/2 boxer, 1/4 husky, 1/4 chow. For years when people would come visit we would put her in the laundry room just to be on the safe side. Anyone who is unwilling to put their dog/dogs away is purely selfish. Sounds like they will not be though.

Second: We dealt with a vicious dog in the neighborhood. They weren't necessarily abused but weren't really trained and taught any better and the two dogs would pack up and attack as a pair. one from the front and one from the back. My daughter was grabbed on the back of the calf and then shook. I did report the dog and it was put down. I didn't want to do it but they always let their dogs out at 3:30-4:00 to roam loose and that is when my kids get home off the bus and walk past their house to get home. I reported the dogs deliberately due to their constant aggressive behavior and because they've tried to attack myself and my husband on separate occasions.

Third: This really doesn't have anything to do with the situation but due to the fact that we have four children we will only adopt and/or buy puppies only so that we can train them on how to act around small children. Now I know you can train older dogs but I personally prefer to raise them and know their personalities and quirks.

auroranflash

An idiot move to have hyper kids running around a traumatized dog. Don't have the dog around kids. It's like taking a war vet to a fireworks show.

MyChocolateDiet

Yes I would. I'd agree with however upset your hubby is.

My brother-in-law is notorious for adopting dogs left and right and he loves to get pit bulls. We used to take them off his hands when he'd make up excuses for no longer being able to care for them and my husband was good with the one and then the second we got. When we needed to move we adopted them out to another family who took them both because we weren't sure we could handle the dogs with the new challenges our new place presented. Also we had a baby on the way and my mom was harping about those dogs and I had stopped going outside feeling more vulnerable each day my belly grew and it just got to a point where we had to make choices.

Currently whenever we show up there and there is a new dog I wait in the car with our child. We never know where he's gotten these dogs and don't have time to ask when kiddo's right there. He's been nearly bitten by tiny "cute" dogs where we live who had irresponsible owners so we don't see a need to expose him to questionable dogs the guy has already proven he can't handle by pawning off to us. Since that time I believe he's had around 5 dogs and there's never an explanation where or why they are gone, so It's fishy and we don't take chances. If there's a dog we wait in the car and hubby makes a quick visit excuse of dropping something off or being in the area. IF they lock it up safely and securely and he sees that then he gives the all clear and we go inside. We are on the same page so I trust his judgement regarding this. Hope you and your husband can team up like this too and get to spend as much time with your family without putting your kid in danger or your nerves on edge the whole time.

Most of both of our families have dogs and their owners are very clear and up front which dogs can handle what kind of play. We respect the dog owners and their impressions of how trustworthy or playful their dogs are. Our kid has fun playing with most dogs in the family but knows which ones are locked up and are off limits and how far he is to stay from the gates. We and the owners all keep a watchful eye at these get togethers to make sure everyone stays a safe distance.

bellesouth18

Seems to me that the dog would benefit being in a quieter, adult only environment, with lots of TLC, and not around young children. Win-win for all, including the dog.

auroranflash

Seems to me that the dog would benefit being in a quieter, adult only environment, with lots of TLC, and not around young children. Win-win for all, including the dog.

This. They are kids with teeth and they WILL act out if they are stressed out. Just because a dog can be aggressive in certain situations doesn't mean it deserves to die. It means the owners have not identified the stress initiators the dog has and is irresponsibly exposing it to situations it may not be capable of handling. I completely agree with keeping your kids away from the dog, but I also highly recommend educating your children how dogs also become upset because of running and agitation and how to act around a large animal like that. It could literally Save their life.